Traditional vs. weird settings

[luj1]

Would you mind sharing the sauce?

It's a mix of Wayne Barlowe, Morrowind and exobiology studies

 

[Nortar]

Dwarves(though they are more similar to elves).

Disagreed.
Elves = High magical / low tech
Dwarves = High tech / Low magic

They have steampunk machinery and are amazing crafters, the empire aeons after its demise can't make a crossbow as good as Dwarves.

True.
But what I meant is that they are related to the elves. They are considered one of the Mer races,like the Ayleids,Chimer,Dunmer,Bosmer,Altmer.

Words of wisdom from Naheulbeuk.

 

[luj1]

A mix of Soul Reaver, Michael Whelan, Moon Patrol and some European comics

 

[Maxwell's Demon]

If you have good writers onboard, try doing the weird stuff. Planescape: Torment and Disco Elysium are great due to their writing, but Tides of Numenera fails completely in this regard.

If you have mediocre writing team, take the beaten path. You can still have great RPG, but writing will probably not be its strongest point.

Honestly I like both types of settings, as long as worldbuilding is competent enough.

No, the exact opposite is true. In order for a traditional setting to be interesting, it requires excellent writing. A weird setting is a crutch that spruces up mediocre writing and forces writers to innovate. Because nearly every CRPG writer is mediocre, they should make extensive use of this crutch.

 

[Lyric Suite]

You need traditional in order to have "wierd" settings. If all you had was wierd settings they wouldn't be wierd anymore.

I think traditional should remain the norm and wierd should exist only to provide the occational cathartic release from the limits of the traditional style.

 

[Glop_dweller]

No mention of Planescape?

 

[Lyric Suite]

No mention of Planescape?

It's been mentioned a dozen times dude.

 

[rusty_shackleford]

Many posters on the codex have fried their dopamine receptors by playing so many games that the only way they can enjoy RPGs is when they're set in the most obscure hipster settings possible

 

[Assisted Living Godzilla]

We've been in the normal traditional settings for so long now with fantasy stuff, at least major releases, that it would be nice to see it swing the other way.

Funnily, if you modeled a traditional fantasy setting look off stuff like JRR Tolkien's paintings, and the Arthur Rackham influenced art for the Rankin/Bass cartoons, you'd have a weirder looking setting than most things doing the traditional setting have for the last 21 years.

I think part of the problem with how the traditional high fantasy setting of fantasy gets portrayed in games of the last two decades is it's just done so boringly from a visual perspective. Like as far as the last two Elder Scrolls games go, it just seems like an excuse to be boring. Dragon's Dogma was visually a nice breath of fresh air when it came to traditional fantasy settings in video games where everything was very nicely visually designed.

 

[Lyric Suite]

Some of the best fantasy games are those that take inspiration from actual medieval Europe and not some imagined version of it. And i don't mean historical games alone but games that somehow captured some of the stylistic qualities of medieval art and architecture. Like Diablo for instance, which was fairly "gothic" while still being high fantasy. Dark Souls as well (regrettably, they drove their gothic style into the ground by Dark Souls 3 but that's another argument). Meanwhile, historical games like Kingdom Come, which i'm currently playing, also provide a more grounded and sophisticated aesthetic than your run of the mill high fantasy vydia.

High, "traditional" fantasy is only generic if the people making the game are talentless hacks.

 

[Crispy]

I will also submit that "weird" does not necessarily have to be a sharp departure from the game's overall setting. If a clever designer creates enough variation in the locales the player will encounter, the sense of wonder and of exploration will seem weird enough.

A good example is when you compare Skyrim with Enderal. Even though it uses many of Skyrim's original assets, Enderal takes them and uses/presents them in such creative ways (entering a large, lighted cave for the first time, etc.) that you're quite engaged and interested in the same way you would be when wandering around in something that's weird just for the sake of being weird.

Duneville:

 

[Lyric Suite]

Fantasy? Why not try looking at real life every now and then:

 

[Assisted Living Godzilla]

I think the question is a bit complicated. For example:

- Is something like Fallout traditional or weird?
- What about Arcanum?

There's also the fact a weird setting can become traditional. Tolkien was pretty weird back in his time, but he's considered Traditional nowdays because so many people decided to take their beats from him in the last century

I guess it would depend on how you phrased the question. Fallout not even being a fantasy setting, (it's a sci-fi setting drawing on things like Buck Rogers, the Mad Max movies, A Boy and His Dog, Forbidden Planet, The City of Lost Children, the short film La Jet that inspired 12 Monkeys, [and probably also 12 Monkeys] that '39 Worlds Fair World of Tomorrow type stuff, and advertising and architectural styles of the '30...some of that dips into Mad Max 3, and that game Crusader: No Remorse) is neither a traditional or weird fantasy setting. Fallout however was somewhat atypical of a setting for a CRPG in 1997. Final Fantasy 7 coming how the exact same year does however mean Fallout wasn't alone in being a sci-fi RPG taking place in a retro futuristic setting. That movie The Fifth Element, which also came out in '97, had retro futurism elements to things like the flying cars...that style was pretty big in the '90s.

Arcanum is a traditional fantasy setting taking place in a different era than traditional fantasy normally does. In a way you could say it's not traditional, but visually it's extremely traditional. Visually it was probably one of the more traditional settings for both a fantasy set game, and an RPG around that time.

 

[Crispy]

We're talking about RPGs, LS. Try to contain your autism.

 

[RaggleFraggle]

even Bloodlines (which takes a lot from Anne Rice),

It's not weird. It's urban fantasy. Urban fantasy is an extremely common genre in prose fiction to the point of oversaturation, though Bloodlines seems to be one of the few representatives of the genre in crpg. (Take note devs reading this looking to break into an unexploited market, the urban fantasy genre is ripe for exploitation in crpgs.)

99% of crpgs are Tolkienesque by way of D&D. It's oversaturated, even. That doesn't mean any other genre automatically qualifies as "weird." Are we defining weird as anything that doesn't fit the cliché or genuine entries in the weird fiction genre(s)?

Planescape is weird in the sense that it routinely displays surreal imagery. Dark Sun is only "weird" in the sense that it's basically Barsoom but with D&D classes. Ravenloft is gothic horror with D&D classes. Etc.

Death Trash is weird because it takes the post-apocalypse genre and adds this weird meat landscape.

There are tons of non-weird genres that have yet to be exploited, or at least have yet to be overused or weirdified.

 

[Lyric Suite]

We're talking about RPGs, LS. Try to contain your autism.

Wierd concidence i was also talking about RPGs and even mentioned several.

 

[S.torch]

99% of crpgs are Tolkienesque by way of D&D. It's oversaturated, even.

Do you know why so many people like you say that "such and such is overexploited, oversaturated and blablabla?" Because they haven't really put themselves to look up what they're talking about, otherwise you would know that the valuable and substantial things in that genre and many others can be counted with the fingers of one hand. I gave a list of several examples that the ignorant often count as influenced by Tolkien, and when we put the magnifying glass, heck, when we simply pay attention, we realise that they have little to none of it.

 

[perfectslumbers]

99% of crpgs are Tolkienesque by way of D&D.

D&D isn't Tolkienesque

Personally any setting works as long as the author(s) have some sort of conviction. Current Forgotten Realms and similar settings such as Golarian are extremely boring vessels designed to hold every type of story possible all at once. Tolkien is seen as generic but his work is incredibly unique and interesting because it reflects his beliefs and experiences so strongly. You can say the same (to a lesser extent) about Gygax's early D&D settings.

 

[Kabas]

I am fine with traditional as long as it's actually utilizes what it has.
Like witches being proficient in turning people into frogs, trolls and dragons bonding over hoarding gold and wizards wearing a proper star-pattern robes with a pointy hat.

 

[RaggleFraggle]

99% of crpgs are Tolkienesque by way of D&D. It's oversaturated, even.

Do you know why so many people like you say that "such and such is overexploited, oversaturated and blablabla?" Because they haven't really put themselves to look up what they're talking about, otherwise you would know that the valuable and substantial things in that genre and many others can be counted with the fingers of one hand. I gave a list of several examples that the ignorant often count as influenced by Tolkien, and when we put the magnifying glass, heck, when we simply pay attention, we realise that they have little to none of it.

How are “you can count the number of valuable crpgs on one hand” and “most crpgs are derivative and uninspired” contradictory statements?

 

[Bohrain]

Both can can be good or utter shit. But the ease of execution and common pitfalls are different. I think it's harder to do a conventional fantasy setting right, because the audience is going to see it and think it's a derivative work from the first glance. But for unconventional settings people have a harder time making it feel authentic. Conventional settings have the advantage that people have some stereotypical idea of how a medieval world operates and adding dragons and magic doesn't really disrupt that. But if the setting has chairs made out of flesh and stepping to someone's shadow turns you gay, you have to go through more effort to convey how this world operates and what do people perceive as normal. And just because something is unconventional doesn't necessarily make it more interesting. There are plenty of stories that break conventions that are just boring and unfullfilling to experience.

 

[NecroLord]

Personally, I am rather weary of the same "kobold - goblin - bugbear - orc - dragons, insert random monster from the Monster Manual routine".
I want more eldritch horror,human evil and corruption,and demon settings.

 

[Sykar]

I just want a good setting that is fairly consistent and logical inside its own rules and world building. See Failturd 3 vs New Vegas.

 

[luj1]

I wouldn't consider games like Morrowind or Underrail to be "weird".

- Is something like Fallout traditional or weird?
- What about Arcanum?

Yeah these arent weird, this is weird

 

[NecroLord]

Though not an RPG, I think Oddworld: Abe's Oddysee fits the bill as a weird setting.