Traditional vs. weird settings

[fredsteel]

This thread reminded me of Vangers. Excellent example of a "weird" setting which has as a defining staple that nothing is familiar.

 

[MurkrLurkr]

Although I voted for weird settings, I think the best answer would be a golden mean between these two options, a synthesis the game devs should achieve through evoking wonderment in their audience. Viktor Shklovsky and the Russian formalists thought that one of the basic characteristics of true art was defamiliarization (остранение, "strangefication"). Defamiliarization is largely described as the application of a fundamentally new - foreign - point of view to a known thing or phenomenon, when the artist does not call the thing by its name, but describes it as if it were seen for the first time, and the event as if it happened for the first time. Defamiliarization has another feature, the process of making the artistic form more difficult, especially increasing the difficulty of perceiving, in order to stimulate the activity of the recipient, inducing him to experience, live through the thing.
The best examples of this for me would be Morrowind and Arcanum. The astonishment I felt when I stepped out of the boat in Seyda Neen, the player's sense of alienation in its fictive world, the position of not belonging, of being different, was one of a kind experience. On the other hand subversion of familiar D&D tropes of Arcanum, the artistic freedom and seriousness with which Troika approached the creation of the setting, the main star of the game, melding the known and unknown in ugly but deadly alloy, was also I (eye) opening.

 

[ropetight]

This is similar question and has similar answers to old SF writers dilemma "How alien do you make Aliens in your book".

If you make all Aliens just make-up hominids, you can have lots of cheap content and people will relate to it easier.
And since we know nothing about xenobiology, you can probably explain it in some way (Convergent evolution).

If you go all guns blazing, with silicate based life, energy based gestalts, planet-wide hiveminds and similar, you better have some wider picture understanding if you want to be somewhat realistic.
But "realism" of weird settings and creatures is two-edged sword.
At some level of realism weird settings and creatures will become impossible for readers/players to relate to.
But if you tone it down a bit, you can make interesting connections to reader/player.

Nagas, Lizard people will always make for interesting concept since most people don't like lizards and snakes (relatively compared to mammals) - so they are always effective to make some setting more exotic and to trick you into wrong first impression.
But the more you go away from concepts familiar to your audience, the more you risk losing their interest and visceral reaction as disgust.
Depiction of bug-human sex in China Mieville's Perdido Station almost made me puke - it was intentionally written that way.

Somewhat extreme comparison of realism of weird settings: Stanislaw Lem's conscious ocean in Solaris and Rick & Morty's planet-wide consciousness.
First is highly thought out and pessimistic view of improbability of communication with aliens, second is talking about partying, doing drugs and having sex with hive mind.
Solaris is almost impossible to make additional content as everything is said, while in Rick & Morty you can have bunch of episodes with said hive mind.

 

[Higher Animal]

I would say alien fantasy, mystical desert, and haunting sea/ocean. Secondarily deformed reality. Thirdly Historical/realistic/high fantasy.

 

[Zed Duke of Banville]

Nagas, Lizard people will always make for interesting concept since most people don't like lizards and snakes (relatively compared to mammals)...

Feels bad, warmblood

 

[Norfleet]

True.
But what I meant is that they are related to the elves. They are considered one of the Mer races,like the Ayleids,Chimer,Dunmer,Bosmer,Altmer.

I doubt these people are taxonomers and just lump every non-human humanoid in "mer", similar to "alfar". Orcs are considered a "mer", for instance.

 

[LarryTyphoid]

I find that CRPGs aren't "normal" enough. There aren't actually that many RPGs where you're a knight on a horse going to slay a dragon and rescue a princess, but there are countless RPGs where those same tropes are "subverted". The earliest CRPGs are infamously bizarre and amoral, like Ultima's Age of Darkness trilogy with its insane time travel and space-ships, which had mechanics encouraging the player to slaughter villages for XP. For me, the more ordinary, the better, because it shows that the devs aren't trying so hard to be "unique". Being normal is abnormal. In fact, I prefer games to be so normal that they don't even include those gay fucking elves and dwarves, (which were, as far as I can tell, unique innovations of Tolkien, at least in their modern, popular form), or the mandated polytheistic pantheon of gods which always turns a setting into a complete snoozefest for me. Where are the RPGs with more traditional "Arthurian" settings? I can't think of any besides maybe Dragon Quest, or even Darklands.

 

[RaggleFraggle]

I find that CRPGs aren't "normal" enough. There aren't actually that many RPGs where you're a knight on a horse going to slay a dragon and rescue a princess, but there are countless RPGs where those same tropes are "subverted". The earliest CRPGs are infamously bizarre and amoral, like Ultima's Age of Darkness trilogy with its insane time travel and space-ships, which had mechanics encouraging the player to slaughter villages for XP. For me, the more ordinary, the better, because it shows that the devs aren't trying so hard to be "unique". Being normal is abnormal. In fact, I prefer games to be so normal that they don't even include those gay fucking elves and dwarves, (which were, as far as I can tell, unique innovations of Tolkien, at least in their modern, popular form), or the mandated polytheistic pantheon of gods which always turns a setting into a complete snoozefest for me. Where are the RPGs with more traditional "Arthurian" settings? I can't think of any besides maybe Dragon Quest, or even Darklands.

That’s a really interesting observation. I was subconsciously aware of this but didn’t fully recognize it until you just pointed it out.

 

[Morpheus Kitami]

Forgotten Realms is very weird once you start looking into it. Tolkien, despite being the daddy of all fantasy, is remarkably different than his imitators.

Can you give some examples of this? Not arguing or being facetious, honestly asking and curious. I feel like the underdark may be alien to tolkein's high fantasy, low magic setting but I haven't read Tolkein for many years.

I see you have yet to be introduced to the, *ahem* magical realm aspects of the setting.

William Morris, W.H. Hodgson, Edgar Rice Burroughs, Abraham Merritt, Lord Dunsany, Eric Rücker Eddison, H.P. Lovecraft, Robert E. Howard, Clark Ashton Smith, Fritz Leiber, Mervyn Peake, Jack Vance, Poul Anderson, Peter S. Beagle, Michael Moorcock, Roger Zelazny, and Gene Wolfe were unavailable for comment.

You're being deliberately obtuse and you know it. Some of these aren't even fantasy writers either, do better.

 

[RaggleFraggle]

I see you have yet to be introduced to the, *ahem* magical realm aspects of the setting.

Wow. I had no idea. I wish I could unsee that.

 

[KainenMorden]

Forgotten Realms is very weird once you start looking into it. Tolkien, despite being the daddy of all fantasy, is remarkably different than his imitators.

Can you give some examples of this? Not arguing or being facetious, honestly asking and curious. I feel like the underdark may be alien to tolkein's high fantasy, low magic setting but I haven't read Tolkein for many years.

I see you have yet to be introduced to the, *ahem* magical realm aspects of the setting.

I innocently clicked the link and just skimmed it a bit, I had no idea at all.

You know I always wondered about this Ed Greenwood, I've read different things about his stances that I didn't like but didn't know it went this far.

Greenwood, greenwood, what do you guys think is the origin of that surname? Given his views, is it possible he's...



You know.....

 

[Machocruz]

I'm for either as long as it's not quasi medieval European trappings or try-hard nonsensical weird for weirdness' sake. My thematic preferences currently run towards eastern cultures, Howardian S&S, near future, contemporary urban, occult/demonology, gothic horror fantasy, whatever Kenshi is.

 

[ERYFKRAD]

This is why I could never play banal mundane shit such as Gothic, Witcher, Oblivion, Skyrim, etc.

If you can't make "banal mundane shit" work as a setting, weird stuff ain't gonna help you none.

 

[Lady Error]

Traditional fantasy with some scifi is best - later Wizardry titles, Might & Magic, Grimoire, etc.

 

[ERYFKRAD]

No sword and sorcery is best. But damned if I can tell you which one qualifies as a proper sword and sorcery rpg.

 

[Average Manatee]

Strange places: good
Strange races: depends. Often cringe because it's just X but Y (e.g. "our race is 95% similar to elves but is totally not elves it's something new", you can still call them elves even if they are slightly different from Tolkein's). Tends to be especially bad if you get a writer who gushes paragraphs detailing the minute details of how the new race is so special and different. Tends to be better if the race is mostly left unstated and its up for the player to figure things out (works well if they are enemies).

 

[Sykar]

Albion is interesting in how it starts in a fairly standard spaceship but then switches up to a really alien world.

 

[Zed Duke of Banville]

No sword and sorcery is best. But damned if I can tell you which one qualifies as a proper sword and sorcery rpg.

TFW you realize that Faery Tale Adventure might be the most sword & sorcery of any proper CRPG you've ever played.

Conan Exiles is intended to be an MMORPG, but it can be played as a single-player game and is certainly more sword-and-sorcery by virtue of its literary lineage.

If you look at other genres, there were a large number of sword & sorcery inspired fantasy beat-'em-ups, such as the Golden Axe series or Magic Sword, most of which were originally released as arcade games. Also consider Thief: The Dark Project (though not the two sequels) and Blade of Darkness (a.k.a. Severance).

 

[ERYFKRAD]

No sword and sorcery is best. But damned if I can tell you which one qualifies as a proper sword and sorcery rpg.

TFW you realize that Faery Tale Adventure might be the most sword & sorcery of any proper CRPG you've ever played.

Conan Exiles is intended to be an MMORPG, but it can be played as a single-player game and is certainly more sword-and-sorcery by virtue of its literary lineage.

If you look at other genres, there were a large number of sword & sorcery inspired fantasy beat-'em-ups, such as the Golden Axe series or Magic Sword, most of which were originally released as arcade games.

Also consider Thief: The Dark Project (though not the two sequels) and Blade of Darkness (a.k.a. Severance).

Thief isn't an rpg and I'd consider it closer to some ilk of medieval urban fantasy than sword and sorcery. Definitely had some of the elements, I'll concede that much. Severance is too much on the borderline to qualify as rpg, I think.
Conan exiles and likely the mmo are the closest things to it, I suppose.
There is this game, I suppose.

 

[NecroLord]

The first Thief is a combination of dark fantasy and small steampunk elements.
Thief 2 is a stealth steampunk game, proper.
At least that's how I see them.

 

[KainenMorden]

No sword and sorcery is best. But damned if I can tell you which one qualifies as a proper sword and sorcery rpg.

TFW you realize that Faery Tale Adventure might be the most sword & sorcery of any proper CRPG you've ever played.

Conan Exiles is intended to be an MMORPG, but it can be played as a single-player game and is certainly more sword-and-sorcery by virtue of its literary lineage.

If you look at other genres, there were a large number of sword & sorcery inspired fantasy beat-'em-ups, such as the Golden Axe series or Magic Sword, most of which were originally released as arcade games. Also consider Thief: The Dark Project (though not the two sequels) and Blade of Darkness (a.k.a. Severance).

What do you mean by sword and sorcery exactly in terms of vidya?

 

[mondblut]

Traditional all the way. Europe is the best culture, medieval is the best period. "Quirky" snowflake settings can kiss my ass.

 

[ItsChon]

Where would Underrail fall here? Traditional or weird?

 

[S.torch]

None because is a sci-fi setting, not a fantasy one.

 

[Smerlus]

I like a mix between the two and lean more into the weird setting. There's definitely going too far though such as Tides of Numenera. When you have to spend 100 words to describe every item in your game and then another 100 words to describe what happened when it was touched/interacted with, you might have gone a little too weird.