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Sigourn

uooh afficionado
Joined
Feb 6, 2016
Messages
5,739
"I'll start with why I don't care for NV's story. Intro: you're tied up as several mysterious men surround you, shot, buried, left for dead as you would probably bleed out. Somehow, miraculously you survive, at this point the average waster would be thankful to be alive, the courier instead unleashes a rampage across the wasteland against all odds. That to me, is unbelievable. So it started off on the wrong foot, and it never really recovered from that. The writing is competent, more than competent really, but I could never suspend my disbelief at it all. The writing for individual quests might be superb, but I never cared much for the main quest, honestly I feel like the DLC's episodic over-arching story serves a better narrative for NV. Yes, I honestly feel the DLCs are better than the base game.

But that's not the reason why Fallout 3's story is better to me. It's a tad more personal in nature, and even if it wasn't, as crazy as this sounds, the progression feels much more natural. Fallout 3 feels like it could happen, sure there are a lot of dependencies with the story, but it feels plausible. But putting that aside, I played fallout 3 in a very vulnerable time and the story resonated deeply for me. There I was, a kid around 15, still reeling from the loss of my mother 4 years prior, dealing with a father getting re-engaged with someone who might as well have been a stranger, changing himself, the man I had known disappearing. There I was, and I played Fallout 3, and I saw all the similarities, and I connected with it like I've never connected with another game. It was a way to gain some semblance of control over my life, to disappear into a world where my existence had more meaning, but still be so close in terms of reality that it felt real.

I felt, more than I'd wager most, the struggle of the lone wanderer as my own, as a more emotional plight. I was the lone wanderer. Fallout New Vegas felt shallow in comparison. It had no connect, no draw, no hook. The conflict was physical, and it just felt lacking after what I had gone through in DC."
 

naossano

Cipher
Joined
Aug 26, 2014
Messages
1,232
Location
Marseilles, France
The dude telling us why he loved Fallout 3.

If we put aside the fact he considers Fallout 3 story as plausible (which is a big elephant in the room), his message makes some sense. He prefers Fallout 3 story because he feels like it relates more to his personnal story, not for *objective* reason and he admits it. We would be lucky if all Beth fans could express themselves like that. We might be able to reach the level of actual conversation.
 

Sigourn

uooh afficionado
Joined
Feb 6, 2016
Messages
5,739
If we put aside the fact he considers Fallout 3 story as plausible (which is a big elephant in the room), his message makes some sense. He prefers Fallout 3 story because he feels like it relates more to his personnal story, not for *objective* reason and he admits it. We would be lucky if all Beth fans could express themselves like that. We might be able to reach the level of actual conversation.

I literally read the beginning of his post and only after I posted it here did I read the end. While you think his message makes some sense, to me it is the opposite. He's basically saying "a story is good if I can connect to it, even if almost everyone cannot connect with it at all".

In the end, he told me NV's story doesn't make sense because the Courier survives a headshot, whereas I told him the Lone Wanderer a) Shouldn't have been able to escape the Vault, b) Shouldn't have been able to survive hordes and hordes of Super Mutants, and c) Shouldn't have been able to destroy the Enclave's base, and d) The story falls apart because the player is forced to play the good guy for the most part of the story, joining the Brotherhood, even after he destroyed Megaton, and it would only make sense if we knew beforehand we could infect Project Purity with the modified FEV.

At least that's what I think. I get incredibly triggered by comments that are full of idiocy.
 

naossano

Cipher
Joined
Aug 26, 2014
Messages
1,232
Location
Marseilles, France
Dunno about the rest of the conversation, but in his message, he keeps insisting that it is HIS opinion, not something he means as factual, and express why it connects to HIM. He also aknowledge that FoNV has competent writting but that it doesn't connect to him. Also, the plausibility of surviving an headshot and kicking asses right after could raise questions, even if Fallout 3 raises a lot more plausibility issues (we would probably need an entire thread to mention all of them. Look into NMA for some lists.)

Most other Beth fans would tell you that Beth has better writting, period. So that guy message is a lot more convincing than the usual folks who defend Beth. (of course, the rest of the conversation could be less convincing)
 

adrix89

Cipher
Joined
Dec 27, 2014
Messages
700
Location
Why are there so many of my country here?
"I'll start with why I don't care for NV's story. Intro: you're tied up as several mysterious men surround you, shot, buried, left for dead as you would probably bleed out. Somehow, miraculously you survive, at this point the average waster would be thankful to be alive, the courier instead unleashes a rampage across the wasteland against all odds. That to me, is unbelievable. So it started off on the wrong foot, and it never really recovered from that. The writing is competent, more than competent really, but I could never suspend my disbelief at it all. The writing for individual quests might be superb, but I never cared much for the main quest, honestly I feel like the DLC's episodic over-arching story serves a better narrative for NV. Yes, I honestly feel the DLCs are better than the base game.

But that's not the reason why Fallout 3's story is better to me. It's a tad more personal in nature, and even if it wasn't, as crazy as this sounds, the progression feels much more natural. Fallout 3 feels like it could happen, sure there are a lot of dependencies with the story, but it feels plausible. But putting that aside, I played fallout 3 in a very vulnerable time and the story resonated deeply for me. There I was, a kid around 15, still reeling from the loss of my mother 4 years prior, dealing with a father getting re-engaged with someone who might as well have been a stranger, changing himself, the man I had known disappearing. There I was, and I played Fallout 3, and I saw all the similarities, and I connected with it like I've never connected with another game. It was a way to gain some semblance of control over my life, to disappear into a world where my existence had more meaning, but still be so close in terms of reality that it felt real.

I felt, more than I'd wager most, the struggle of the lone wanderer as my own, as a more emotional plight. I was the lone wanderer. Fallout New Vegas felt shallow in comparison. It had no connect, no draw, no hook. The conflict was physical, and it just felt lacking after what I had gone through in DC."
I could only read that in a disgusting hipster journalists voice. I am not sure about the context but I legitimately vomited half way through reading it.
 

Sigourn

uooh afficionado
Joined
Feb 6, 2016
Messages
5,739
I could only read that in a disgusting hipster journalists voice. I am not sure about the context but I legitimately vomited half way through reading it.

The whole thread is vomit inducing, because there's literally no plausible reasons to defend FO3 other nostalgia and "it was my first Fallout game and thus the real one!".

This is why we can't have nice things, trigger warning.

Hell, I compiled all the arguments myself. Judge for yourself how stupid the FO3 fanbase is.

- "It was my first introduction to Fallout."
- "Its world is lonely and more post-apocalyptic."
- "Its leveled world is cool because you can go anywhere you want."
- "The world is interesting and fun to explore."
- "Environmental storytelling."
- "It gives the vibe that is so essential to the Fallout series: diesel punk/retro 50s themes, retro-nuclear, retro-energy weapons, and the nuclear theme."
- "A lot less handholding."
- "The story is believable."
- "NV's story is lackluster in comparison to 3."
- "I prefer to use my imagination to figure out what happens after the story is over."
- "Bethesda does a better job at holding my attention."
- "Every single thing you do is mentioned in the radio."
- "Liberty Prime."
 
Last edited:
Joined
Nov 8, 2007
Messages
6,207
Location
The island of misfit mascots
"I'll start with why I don't care for NV's story. Intro: you're tied up as several mysterious men surround you, shot, buried, left for dead as you would probably bleed out. Somehow, miraculously you survive, at this point the average waster would be thankful to be alive, the courier instead unleashes a rampage across the wasteland against all odds. That to me, is unbelievable. So it started off on the wrong foot, and it never really recovered from that. The writing is competent, more than competent really, but I could never suspend my disbelief at it all. The writing for individual quests might be superb, but I never cared much for the main quest, honestly I feel like the DLC's episodic over-arching story serves a better narrative for NV. Yes, I honestly feel the DLCs are better than the base game.

But that's not the reason why Fallout 3's story is better to me. It's a tad more personal in nature, and even if it wasn't, as crazy as this sounds, the progression feels much more natural. Fallout 3 feels like it could happen, sure there are a lot of dependencies with the story, but it feels plausible. But putting that aside, I played fallout 3 in a very vulnerable time and the story resonated deeply for me. There I was, a kid around 15, still reeling from the loss of my mother 4 years prior, dealing with a father getting re-engaged with someone who might as well have been a stranger, changing himself, the man I had known disappearing. There I was, and I played Fallout 3, and I saw all the similarities, and I connected with it like I've never connected with another game. It was a way to gain some semblance of control over my life, to disappear into a world where my existence had more meaning, but still be so close in terms of reality that it felt real.

I felt, more than I'd wager most, the struggle of the lone wanderer as my own, as a more emotional plight. I was the lone wanderer. Fallout New Vegas felt shallow in comparison. It had no connect, no draw, no hook. The conflict was physical, and it just felt lacking after what I had gone through in DC."

Sure, I get that.

But put this in perspective. I played the Infinity Engine games in my 20s. And Deus Ex. And SS2.

I thought crpgs were dead and buried especially as I somehow missed the Goldbox games - I was into Wizardry and Ultima.

Then, well past the age of nostalgia, I recognised a set of games that definitely had weaker combat systems, but made up for it by plucking a lot of great stuff from Ultima, combining it with a huge amount of non-combat spell+thief usability, good encounter design and great world creation.

When you find a series of games between 20-30 that you love more than the pre-20 nostalgia period, I'll pay serious attention to them.
 

resilient sphere

Educated
Joined
Nov 27, 2014
Messages
73
there were a lot of surface level reasons people gave to explain their dislike of Ultima 8, its over-reliance on leaping and positional problems being the big sticking point, but there was a darker reason for the game's rejection: Ultima 7 had eased its fans into a lazy victory-lap style of play, allowing them to control a superstar paragon who bulldozes through enemy encounters, effortlessly robs the houses of the starstruck townsfolk and minces his way through a mystery plot with sunday afternoon Poirot-like detachment. Ultima 8 replaces the red carpet with actual toil, starts you at square one in demanding that you learn the ins and outs of a dangerous new environment, takes away your celebrity status and your stuffed spellbook and makes you face actual hostility again - everything the old guard had initially wanted from their roleplaying games but, in accepting Ultima 7, had learned instead to resent.
:M
 

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