Underrail 2: Infusion pre-release megathread

[toro]

I played underrail with classic xp, oddity was for autistic people imo.


If there is no xp for combat, I won't be playing this game

Where is the "snowflake" rating when you need it?

 

[toro]

Anyway, I'm glad that Styg is thinking of tackling the "oddity vs classic" debate and finding a solution for it. It kind of feels like tying up a loose end, rather than just adding more stuff on top.

I'm pretty sure the new system will suck. Wanna bet?

 

[toro]

Killing things should make your character stronger, when I kill rathounds or those ceiling scorpions I want to progress my character as a reward, or else I am wasting my time. Like in pillars of eternity.

Nope. Killing things should not make your character automatically stronger. For example: killing 1000 rats doesn't mean you are ready to fight a bear. Not in a thousand years.

Oddity system is more natural in this sense. You have to spent resources like time and money (exploration and oddities) to increase your skill level and then you can fight the bear.

 

[Taka-Haradin puolipeikko]

For example: killing 1000 rats doesn't mean you are ready to fight a bear.

What do you think about that KeighnMcDeath?

 

[KeighnMcDeath]

Depends on the size of the rat. Regular rats... yeah; don't attack bears. Bear-sized rabid rats... you might do ok.

 

[toro]

I'm playing a lot of Kenshi at the moment and "learning by doing" works really well there. But it's a different type of game altogether.

That's why everyone is running around while carrying a body on their shoulder in order to maximize strength and athleticism skills.

Not one of Kenshi's finest moments

 

[notpl]

Killing things should make your character stronger, when I kill rathounds or those ceiling scorpions I want to progress my character as a reward, or else I am wasting my time. Like in pillars of eternity.

Nope. Killing things should not make your character automatically stronger. For example: killing 1000 rats doesn't mean you are ready to fight a bear. Not in a thousand years.

Oddity system is more natural in this sense. You have to spent resources like time and money (exploration and oddities) to increase your skill level and then you can fight the bear.

...But digging through enough trash cans should prepare you to fight a bear? Because that's the functional difference between the two systems. I prefer Oddity because Underrail is fundamentally an exploration game, and the system is novel besides, but your logic here doesn't really pass basic algebraic appraisal.

 

[Ol' Willy]

Killing things should make your character stronger, when I kill rathounds or those ceiling scorpions I want to progress my character as a reward, or else I am wasting my time. Like in pillars of eternity.

Nope. Killing things should not make your character automatically stronger. For example: killing 1000 rats doesn't mean you are ready to fight a bear. Not in a thousand years.

Oddity system is more natural in this sense. You have to spent resources like time and money (exploration and oddities) to increase your skill level and then you can fight the bear.

You seem to forget that even classic XP in Underrail is level capped. After a certain level rats grant no XP whatsoever

 

[toro]

Killing things should make your character stronger, when I kill rathounds or those ceiling scorpions I want to progress my character as a reward, or else I am wasting my time. Like in pillars of eternity.

Nope. Killing things should not make your character automatically stronger. For example: killing 1000 rats doesn't mean you are ready to fight a bear. Not in a thousand years.

Oddity system is more natural in this sense. You have to spent resources like time and money (exploration and oddities) to increase your skill level and then you can fight the bear.

...But digging through enough trash cans should prepare you to fight a bear? Because that's the functional difference between the two systems. I prefer Oddity because Underrail is fundamentally an exploration game, and the system is novel besides, but your logic here doesn't really pass basic algebraic appraisal.

There is no functional difference between the two systems. Oddity XP system and Classical XP system have the same purpose. Now, fuck off.

 

[toro]

Killing things should make your character stronger, when I kill rathounds or those ceiling scorpions I want to progress my character as a reward, or else I am wasting my time. Like in pillars of eternity.

Nope. Killing things should not make your character automatically stronger. For example: killing 1000 rats doesn't mean you are ready to fight a bear. Not in a thousand years.

Oddity system is more natural in this sense. You have to spent resources like time and money (exploration and oddities) to increase your skill level and then you can fight the bear.

You seem to forget that even classic XP in Underrail is level capped. After a certain level rats grant no XP whatsoever

I wonder why.

 

[notpl]

Killing things should make your character stronger, when I kill rathounds or those ceiling scorpions I want to progress my character as a reward, or else I am wasting my time. Like in pillars of eternity.

Nope. Killing things should not make your character automatically stronger. For example: killing 1000 rats doesn't mean you are ready to fight a bear. Not in a thousand years.

Oddity system is more natural in this sense. You have to spent resources like time and money (exploration and oddities) to increase your skill level and then you can fight the bear.

...But digging through enough trash cans should prepare you to fight a bear? Because that's the functional difference between the two systems. I prefer Oddity because Underrail is fundamentally an exploration game, and the system is novel besides, but your logic here doesn't really pass basic algebraic appraisal.

There is no functional difference between the two systems. Oddity XP system and Classical XP system have the same purpose. Now, fuck off.

No, they very much don't. The manner in which a resource is apportioned is intrinsically tied with the purpose of said action. If you're struggling to understand this, reframe it in civic terms: if unemployment insurance and chlid welfare payments are both budgeted equally and distributed to the same number of people, are they "functionally" identical? No, obviously not: one system encourages people to seek and maintain employment, the other encourages the bearing of children. Oddity and Classic XP incentivize different styles of play.

 

[Beans00]

Killing things should make your character stronger, when I kill rathounds or those ceiling scorpions I want to progress my character as a reward, or else I am wasting my time. Like in pillars of eternity.

Nope. Killing things should not make your character automatically stronger. For example: killing 1000 rats doesn't mean you are ready to fight a bear. Not in a thousand years.

Oddity system is more natural in this sense. You have to spent resources like time and money (exploration and oddities) to increase your skill level and then you can fight the bear.

...But digging through enough trash cans should prepare you to fight a bear? Because that's the functional difference between the two systems. I prefer Oddity because Underrail is fundamentally an exploration game, and the system is novel besides, but your logic here doesn't really pass basic algebraic appraisal.

There is no functional difference between the two systems. Oddity XP system and Classical XP system have the same purpose. Now, fuck off.

No, they very much don't. The manner in which a resource is apportioned is intrinsically tied with the purpose of said action. If you're struggling to understand this, reframe it in civic terms: if unemployment insurance and chlid welfare payments are both budgeted equally and distributed to the same number of people, are they "functionally" identical? No, obviously not: one system encourages people to seek and maintain employment, the other encourages the bearing of children. Oddity and Classic XP incentivize different styles of play.

You guys can disagree and maybe I was mean calling you guys autistic, but I think that killing trash mobs should always have some bare minimum reward. I'm pretty thorough exploring anyways so playing on classic didn't change my playstyle.

If I had to get zero xp for killing all those ceiling scorpions I would not appreciate it.

 

[Oreshnik Missile]

The problem I have with classic XP is that it turns tough monstrous enemies in some backwater shithole into a shining opportunity, rather than a loathsome pointless nuisance. Surely it's the second which is more immersive?

 

[BruceVC]

I'm playing a lot of Kenshi at the moment and "learning by doing" works really well there. But it's a different type of game altogether.

That's why everyone is running around while carrying a body on their shoulder in order to maximize strength and athleticism skills.

Not one of Kenshi's finest moments

Thats a shortcut and " exploit " in Kenshi

You dont need to do that in Kenshi if you play the game as its intended , I raised all my combat skills to 65ish just by the normal way which is combat and losing in combat

 

[MerchantKing]

Killing things should make your character stronger, when I kill rathounds or those ceiling scorpions I want to progress my character as a reward, or else I am wasting my time. Like in pillars of eternity.

Nope. Killing things should not make your character automatically stronger. For example: killing 1000 rats doesn't mean you are ready to fight a bear. Not in a thousand years.

Oddity system is more natural in this sense. You have to spent resources like time and money (exploration and oddities) to increase your skill level and then you can fight the bear.

You seem to forget that even classic XP in Underrail is level capped. After a certain level rats grant no XP whatsoever

BTW, is it like D&D games with CL where if you refuse to level you still get xp? I've never actually tried it, playing exclusively oddity.

 

[BruceVC]

Killing things should make your character stronger, when I kill rathounds or those ceiling scorpions I want to progress my character as a reward, or else I am wasting my time. Like in pillars of eternity.

Nope. Killing things should not make your character automatically stronger. For example: killing 1000 rats doesn't mean you are ready to fight a bear. Not in a thousand years.

Oddity system is more natural in this sense. You have to spent resources like time and money (exploration and oddities) to increase your skill level and then you can fight the bear.

...But digging through enough trash cans should prepare you to fight a bear? Because that's the functional difference between the two systems. I prefer Oddity because Underrail is fundamentally an exploration game, and the system is novel besides, but your logic here doesn't really pass basic algebraic appraisal.

There is no functional difference between the two systems. Oddity XP system and Classical XP system have the same purpose. Now, fuck off.

No, they very much don't. The manner in which a resource is apportioned is intrinsically tied with the purpose of said action. If you're struggling to understand this, reframe it in civic terms: if unemployment insurance and chlid welfare payments are both budgeted equally and distributed to the same number of people, are they "functionally" identical? No, obviously not: one system encourages people to seek and maintain employment, the other encourages the bearing of children. Oddity and Classic XP incentivize different styles of play.

You guys can disagree and maybe I was mean calling you guys autistic, but I think that killing trash mobs should always have some bare minimum reward. I'm pretty thorough exploring anyways so playing on classic didn't change my playstyle.

If I had to get zero xp for killing all those ceiling scorpions I would not appreciate it.

Yes its a legitimate point, you should get XP for killing things. I am on the stage of the game where the earthquake has just been cleared and now I have multiple quests available in different compounds, I havent come across " 1000 RATS " because even 3-4 rats can kill or hurt me if they attack as a pack and surround me

So I should get XP for killing them

End of the day both types of XP provide different types of gameplay which is what the game excels at, one is not better than another because its about your style of play.

Oddity encourages more exploration but I am exploring everything anyway on Classic and opening all boxes

 

[KeighnMcDeath]

These must be some mean mother fucking rats.

 

[toro]

Killing things should make your character stronger, when I kill rathounds or those ceiling scorpions I want to progress my character as a reward, or else I am wasting my time. Like in pillars of eternity.

Nope. Killing things should not make your character automatically stronger. For example: killing 1000 rats doesn't mean you are ready to fight a bear. Not in a thousand years.

Oddity system is more natural in this sense. You have to spent resources like time and money (exploration and oddities) to increase your skill level and then you can fight the bear.

...But digging through enough trash cans should prepare you to fight a bear? Because that's the functional difference between the two systems. I prefer Oddity because Underrail is fundamentally an exploration game, and the system is novel besides, but your logic here doesn't really pass basic algebraic appraisal.

There is no functional difference between the two systems. Oddity XP system and Classical XP system have the same purpose. Now, fuck off.

No, they very much don't. The manner in which a resource is apportioned is intrinsically tied with the purpose of said action. If you're struggling to understand this, reframe it in civic terms: if unemployment insurance and chlid welfare payments are both budgeted equally and distributed to the same number of people, are they "functionally" identical? No, obviously not: one system encourages people to seek and maintain employment, the other encourages the bearing of children. Oddity and Classic XP incentivize different styles of play.

OK. Let's go your route: Oddity XP system incentivize a more organic and liberating way of playing the game than Classic XP system.

Why?

It feels organic because gaining experience points and exploration mechanics are overlapping. By default every normal player will explore the game world as much as possible. I agree that there are probably too many oddities in containers but (1) they are very important for low level runs and (2) you can play without those.

Once you get your oddities from a specific mob then you are free to avoid them. This is liberating. You have no longer have a reason to kill everything. You are no longer a prisoner of the popamole game. You are free to explore and find clever ways to circumvent obstacles without pressure or fear of losing xp points.

Oddities system is not exploitable because the number of oddities is limited. That's why on Classic XP system mobs don't give more XP after a certain threshold.

Oddities are better from a design point of view: the character's experience is somewhat proportional with how much of the gameworld it explored therefore its max xp level can be aproximated and the developer can design better encounters. That's why reaching Depot A is such a tight experience.

Oddity XP system is the default XP system in Underrail for a reason.

 

[toro]

I'm playing a lot of Kenshi at the moment and "learning by doing" works really well there. But it's a different type of game altogether.

That's why everyone is running around while carrying a body on their shoulder in order to maximize strength and athleticism skills.

Not one of Kenshi's finest moments

Thats a shortcut and " exploit " in Kenshi

You dont need to do that in Kenshi if you play the game as its intended , I raised all my combat skills to 65ish just by the normal way which is combat and losing in combat

There is no intended playstyle in Kenshi. I know it's hard to understand but ...

 

[agris]

I'm playing a lot of Kenshi at the moment and "learning by doing" works really well there. But it's a different type of game altogether.

Infusion including PC limb replacement with cyberlimbs so that we can look like Ezra by end of the game would be glorious.

That and permanent scars when reloading from a kill.

 

[thesecret1]

That and permanent scars when reloading from a kill.

My character after a run on dominating:

 

[Sweeper]

You know what would really work for Infusion? Ironman mode. Every RPG should have an Ironman mode.

 

[Technomancer]

Nope. Killing things should not make your character automatically stronger. For example: killing 1000 rats doesn't mean you are ready to fight a bear. Not in a thousand years.

Oddity system is more natural in this sense.

Your example is an exaggeration and doesn't make sense since there are no rats to fight. Rat hounds are basically wolves trying to rip you apart, perfectly capable of tearing your throat out or mauling you to death. So killing 1000 would definitely prepare you to fight a bear. And like others said, it is capped so you can only grind weaker enemies up to a point which solves the exploitation of the system.

Personally I would prefer a third system which would combine oddity and traditional. Like monsters instead of just granting XP would have a bestiary entry which would represent fighting experience of your character and knowledge about any particular monster. It would grant normal amount of XP only until you complete it.

 

[Modron]

Nope. Killing things should not make your character automatically stronger. For example: killing 1000 rats doesn't mean you are ready to fight a bear. Not in a thousand years.

Swinging a sword thousands of times would build strength.

 

[Hydro]

Game is an abstraction you spergs. It shouldn’t reflect reality in these retarded ways. It should be fun. Oddity is fun while it has its downsides. If it can be changed for better why not, we’ll see