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Underrail builds. Let me post my fav one to get going.

Parabalus

Arcane
Joined
Mar 23, 2015
Messages
17,442
if I had gone for taste for blood and high end super steel serrated knife I might have been able to stab tchort down within single round(by building charges prior to entering eye vicinity) at lvl 24. Might have yet to create another stabber...

Did you find knife worth it over light fist weapons?

I did a run before the nerfs(they hit knives harder), where I started with knives and switched to fists midway because I found knives underwhelming. Afterwards used them for cut-throat vs armored enemies for an instagib. Also would have had to waste 2 attribute points to get WILL to 5 for Ripper, that's why I ultimately gave up.

The build killed Tchort in one round with with AP leftovers, using The Claw Ripper's Glove to stack 3 bleeds then 4 AP melee attacks. Serrated knife had a higher AP cost and a lower damage range, seemed pointless to use it in comparison.
 
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Parabalus

Arcane
Joined
Mar 23, 2015
Messages
17,442
Happy to help with knives as I spent so much time playing with them...

let me start with ap cost: there is no difference between knives type, only on metal type. Tichrome can be 1AP lower, but it depends on dex! tl;dr; if you are lvl 24, all lvls into dex and eat eel sandwich: ap cost of tichrome and other types is exactly same: 6

Yeah, sorry, I meant in comparison to light fist weapons, I can see how that wasn't clear.
Biggest hit to knives came in form of taste for blood: it no longer gives ap reduction so cant reach sweet 4AP cost.

Yeah, that's what I meant with taking a bigger nerf.
What knives got is insane crit multiplier(new machete seems to be even higher, cant wait to do some calculations once dlc is released). With high dex, infused rathound armor and focus steam you can reach around 60% crit chance. There is only single enemy resistant to critical strikes up to my knowledge: rock creatures in foundry.

The only thing knives would have over fist weapons is Ripper, I guess it's really good then. Didn't try to all in on crit, I might try your build but with added survival instincts.

The mushrooms in the forest are also immune.

Thats why tungsteen serrated knife is superior. It can only be outclassed by high end super steel only so you are in hands of RNG gods.
supersteel dagger(so no taste for blood boost for this check) is capable of scoring 500 dmg single hit and unlocking achievement for you.

You can use Ripper glove to apply bleed and switch weapons, prolly only worth vs Tchort and a bit iffier for knives.
I got those numbers with fist weapons too.

I had 120ish ancient rathound leather and 155ish supersteel, the gloves I could craft were much better than the comparable knife. I'll have to dig up the save, I don't remember the exact numbers since it's almost a year ago.
had some excel math calculations somewhere... Conclusions Ive drawn based on what can I craft with q150 supersteel:
- dagger is best choice for short fights against organic targets(Id say this is most common scenario, at the same time not very demanding)
- combat knife is good vs rock creatures and robots(but only before you get past 35% crit chance)
- serrated knife is superior to knife once you get high crit chance. Its superior to dagger against non living targets. Its superior to dagger against living targets after few taste for blood stacks. I didnt find much use for bleeding, raw dmg drops everything.

I came to the same conclusions and usage cases, but it just did a lot less work than fist weapons, who have pmuch the same paradigm.
 

epeli

Arcane
Joined
Aug 17, 2014
Messages
719
oh and let me be clear: I have no idea how ripper and critical power feats interact with each other.

Styg do you mind sharing how is it calculated? Lets say you have 150% extra crit dmg and attack enemy with 50%hp left.
Is critical power applied to base crit multiplier or is it first boosted by ripper?

(1 + 0.5 * 2.5) *1.5 = 3.375

vs

(1.5*1.5 - 1)*2.5 + 1 = 4.125

Ripper said:
Critical hit damage with knives and throwing knives increased by 1% for each 1% of the target's missing health. Applied multiplicatively to regular critical damage bonus.

Note the exact wording. (Protip: that is the key to deciphering any ambiguous Underrail mechanics.) Ripper increases critical hit damage, not critical damage bonus. So it's applied as a separate multiplier, just as the next sentence also tells you.
 

epeli

Arcane
Joined
Aug 17, 2014
Messages
719
Huh? "Applied multiplicatively to regular critical damage bonus" means you have (regular critical damage bonus) * (ripper effect). Basically, your first formula.

I'm not qualified to give English lessons either, but at least I have innate understanding of styg-logic. The way I see it, the second sentence and 'regular' in particular only serve to highlight the fact that this feat does not change the usual critical damage bonus stat, instead it is something different. Styg probably added the second sentence because it's easy to assume that critical hit damage refers to critical damage bonus - or maybe I'm just projecting, because that's exactly what I assumed before reading the feat text carefully just now. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
 

Parabalus

Arcane
Joined
Mar 23, 2015
Messages
17,442
I've been thinking about a sledgehammer build, but I've never even touched a hammer before so I'd like some input. Core desire is to run with 95% armor penalty and try out Balor's Hammer for a hit or to, otherwise your own.

  • My first choice would be a 10++++++/6/7/3/3/3/8 build. I'm confident I wouldn't have much issue with this build, however all the characters I've played had 3 CON so I'd like to try something different. I could lower INT to 6 but there is really nothing to put the points in.
  • Dumping DEX gives me 10++++++/3/7/7/3/3/7. This loses me 4% crit, 125% crit damage, a bunch of skill points and makes fishing more annoying, but it almost doubles my HP with juggernaut.
  • Dumping AGI takes me to 10+++++(+)/6/3/9(+)/3/3/6, with a attribute point shifting around depending on if I'm getting too annoyed by stuns. This has everything I would want but lacks the two mobility feats, which would certainly make gameplay more interesting, since thanks to the armor penalty you'd be stuck with 30ish MS regardless how good of a bootspring/tabi you have I think I fucked up, armor penalty does reduce the base 30 MS, which would make this horrible. Might consider staying perma <30% to abuse SI.
A bunch of minor feats can be interchanged in the builds, likely depending on my mood, but I'd like to know if I missed something crucial. One thing I'm unsure of is whether to take the bleed package (vile weap. + TfB).

but at least I have innate understanding of styg-logic.

Some quick questions:

  • Bladed metal armor triggers it's bleed chance on every strike independently for each spike, ie. with Ripper's Glove and triple serrated spikes I could potentially apply 6 bleeds with one hit?
  • Does Superslam's additional damage crit?
  • Do Tchortlings+the big eye himself have ribs?
  • How does the target's resolve reduce neural overload damage? Mostly asking whether it's worth it to take mental subversion if you are full 16 WILL/ 135 TC, never noticed a resist on the CC spells but it's hard to gauge whether your neural overload damage is getting reduced vs a low roll.
  • Can you get a Tchortist Noble Armor before you drop down to DC and without triggering hostilities with the Tchortists?
  • Hypothermia's CON reduction and HP damage: If triggered with a damaging spell, it first does damage, lower's max HP by (4+ 1.2 * target level) [Even less, I think this is the PC formula] then lowers current HP to maintain the same current/max ration as before the reduction, this seems to fit +- a few HP due to rounding I guess. If I'm correct this makes it rather iffy, barely adding damage, thoughts?
  • Is there any logic behind cryokinetic orb's projectile spread?
 
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epeli

Arcane
Joined
Aug 17, 2014
Messages
719
  • Bladed metal armor triggers it's bleed chance on every strike independently for each spike, ie. with Ripper's Glove and triple serrated spikes I could potentially apply 6 bleeds with one hit?
  • Does Superslam's additional damage crit?
  • Do Tchortlings+the big eye himself have ribs?
  • How does the target's resolve reduce neural overload damage? Mostly asking whether it's worth it to take mental subversion if you are full 16 WILL/ 135 TC, never noticed a resist on the CC spells but it's hard to gauge whether your neural overload damage is getting reduced vs a low roll.
  • Can you get a Tchortist Noble Armor before you drop down to DC and without triggering hostilities with the Tchortists?
  • Hypothermia's CON reduction and HP damage: If triggered with a damaging spell, it first does damage, lower's max HP by (4+ 1.2 * target level) [Even less, I think this is the PC formula] then lowers current HP to maintain the same current/max ration as before the reduction, this seems to fit +- a few HP due to rounding I guess. If I'm correct this makes it rather iffy, barely adding damage, thoughts?
  • Is there any logic behind cryokinetic orb's projectile spread?

- Technically yes. edit: Wait, you're wrong there. Metal armor should have only one bleed proc with any number of serrated blades. You can get another (unarmed only) bleed proc from serrated boots tho.
- Sure, why not?
- Tchortlings are basically humanoid. The "eye" might in fact not be an eye at all; that is merely how your character's weak mind interprets the shapeless lovecraftian horror... (originally it was immune to practically any special attack, then at some point it even had knees)
- That's a tricky one. IIRC it works similarly to the saving throws of dodge/evasion/resolve/fortitude and the damage reduction caps at 40% when the target's resolve is twice the attacker's thought control. But in practice NPCs with high will (and thus high resolve) tend to take more damage from NO because they usually also have high intelligence. Resolve can also reduce effect duration, but you won't see much of that happening to your attacks when playing with maxed will.
- Not currently as far as I know.
- Sounds about right. Somebody asked about it a long time ago and I made this in response http://underrail.info.tm/junk/hypothermiathingy.html (back then you could see npc levels in-game) Hypothermia also gives a slight extra boon against enemies with conditioning and it makes cryogas trigger freeze faster.
- It's as random as psi gets.
 
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Parabalus

Arcane
Joined
Mar 23, 2015
Messages
17,442
for heavyweight I assume. Where do you get crit chance from? Survival instincts?

Mostly for novelty/giggles, I don't think it's optimal at all.
Well you have 20% with your own hammer + recklessness, SI pushes you over 50%.


i thought that sprint is mandatory with that armor penalty. Afaik its the only movement source unaffected by it

I didn't think armor penalty can take you all the way down to 1 MP, kinda axes the agiless builds.

Hit and run should also be unaffected. Will probably give the middle one a go when the Underrail urge hits me.


i think lack of strength gives only to hit penalty. As such you should use it by default unless facing evasive enemies

Yeah but you have use consumables, 16 + rathound armor + rathound barbeque still leaves you at 85% hit. Makes it more of a special occasion weapon imo.


That's a tricky one. IIRC it works similarly to the saving throws of dodge/evasion/resolve/fortitude and the damage reduction caps at 40% when the target's resolve is twice the attacker's thought control. But in practice NPCs with high will (and thus high resolve) tend to take more damage from NO because they usually also have high intelligence. Resolve can also reduce effect duration, but you won't see much of that happening to your attacks when playing with maxed will.

Mind sharing the formulas? Google gave me nothing but Styg talking about a 60% cap in regards to dodge, same on the wiki.

Guessing mental subversion wouldn't be worth it then, it would only give something like a single digit % damage increase on subsequent casts IF the target's resolve is actually greater than your thought control, however if mobs follow same rules as PC they'd need over 20 WILL to hit that, guessing not even Eidein and Tchort have that.


- Not currently as far as I know.

Apparently there is a way
[URL='https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=843557165']Steam guide[/URL] said:
Tchortist Noble Robe
There is a way to obtain a Tchortist Noble Robe without turning the Institute of Tchort hostile. Just kill Minister Percival and every Tchortists in Core city upper level before the Research facility quest.

Will have to try that out.

Thanks for the respones :love:.
 

epeli

Arcane
Joined
Aug 17, 2014
Messages
719
Right, since the topic is still going... here's a trick to assassinate a noble in the institute. Remember this guy?
oH2xE61.png

Just standing there, 'mirin' dem tesla coils. I think you already know where this is going, but in case it isn't obvious: Make noise to lure him through the coils just before they fire.

Percival could also work but I'm a bit wary about things like that. You can't assassinate him, but maybe the tchortists missionaries are set to be members of a different faction than the institute guys.
 

Haplo

Prophet
Patron
Joined
Sep 14, 2016
Messages
6,170
Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire
I'm looking forward to finally playing Underrail.

I've been looking at some potential builds and narrowed it down to 2 from this very thread, which I think I might have most fun with.
1. Sykar's PSI Stealth Sniper "Ghost"
2. hilfazer's Science! stealth pistol + 'nades and traps "Synergistic Glass Cannon of All Trades"

Any comments or recommendations?
Anything to help me decide or any other input would be welcome.
 

Parabalus

Arcane
Joined
Mar 23, 2015
Messages
17,442
I'm looking forward to finally playing Underrail.

I've been looking at some potential builds and narrowed it down to 2 from this very thread, which I think I might have most fun with.
1. Sykar's PSI Stealth Sniper "Ghost"
2. hilfazer's Science! stealth pistol + 'nades and traps "Synergistic Glass Cannon of All Trades"

Any comments or recommendations?
Anything to help me decide or any other input would be welcome.

Sykar's build has 7 combat skills while hilfazer's has 2, you'll have a vastly different experience with each of them. First one is probably easier to play and stronger early, latter has access to more content and with crafting peaks later. Both have max stealth so you'll have an easy time in the final chapter. I'd go with the second since crafting is the best of the game for me, wouldn't like have no skills there.
 

hilfazer

Scholar
Joined
Jan 26, 2016
Messages
224
I'm looking forward to finally playing Underrail.

2. hilfazer's Science! stealth pistol + 'nades and traps "Synergistic Glass Cannon of All Trades"

Any comments or recommendations?
Anything to help me decide or any other input would be welcome.
Don't forget Gunslinger no longer works with energy/chemical pistols.
As for stealth, it's enough for pretty much all content but there's one potential problem in final area
Faceless Gaunts
Their detection and stealth is very high. Just don't make Spoilerless angry and you'll be fine.
 

Haplo

Prophet
Patron
Joined
Sep 14, 2016
Messages
6,170
Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire
Thank you very much for your suggestions. So a build based on hilfazer's Science! focused character it is!
Should be interesting.

Sykar's build has 7 combat skills while hilfazer's has 2, you'll have a vastly different experience with each of them. First one is probably easier to play and stronger early, latter has access to more content and with crafting peaks later. Both have max stealth so you'll have an easy time in the final chapter. I'd go with the second since crafting is the best of the game for me, wouldn't like have no skills there.
Hilfazer's build actually has 3 combat skills (Guns, Throwing and Traps). And Sykar's has more, but 3 of them enable spellcasting PSI power use. So they also add to overall variety and flavor. Think I'd like that. But trying to master both PSI and crafting seems like too much (maybe on pure psyker). So maybe I'll try the PSI on my next char.

Don't forget Gunslinger no longer works with energy/chemical pistols.
As for stealth, it's enough for pretty much all content but there's one potential problem in final area

Yes, I've noticed it does not. Too bad. Regardless, thank you very much for the heads up.

I guess I might make a few minor modifications. How much would I loose by going 13 Dex 6 Str for the Steadfast Aim feat? Seems like a big boost to crit rate... particularly for plasma, but also other energy/chem pistols tend to have not very low base AP costs. Between that and Recklessness I could have crit chance boost between +13 and +22 (+20+0,3xstealth skill with Ambush).

I'm also debating dropping Quick Tinkering, as usually I'm not very big on consumables, like traps. I guess it's either that or Three-Pointer (I'm also not too big on granades, but the Ambush bonus seems too good to pass up). I'd like to pick Execute, so I guess Quick Tinkering could help with disables for that as well. And with no Dodge/Evasion, I might need that point-blank disable. Perhaps skip Three-Pointer then.
 

hilfazer

Scholar
Joined
Jan 26, 2016
Messages
224
Dropping QT sounds like masochism. This build is pretty light on defense so QT is pretty important for survival.

I wouldn't drop DEX - it will lower a number of your skills and number of attacks per round (and those have already suffered from DEX nerf and change to Gunslinger). With Ambush you'll eventually reach 100% crit. here's some additional info on Ambush i posted on official forums:
2. Stealth threshold for Ambush feat:
- 150: +65% crit chance, with good Seekers and Focus Stim we will cap,
- 200: +80% crit chance, we will cap with either Stim or Seekers, this is our target value,
- 250: +95% crit chance, possible with stealth gear and probably with very best combat gear crafted with DC components.
Recklessness is worth about 23 stealth. With this feat we will cap crit chance with best pre-DC combat gear.

If you really want Steadfast Aim lower your DEX to 14 and AGI to 3. With food your DEX will be 15 - it allows for 4 chemical pistol shots on adrenaline. 4 shots is when chemical guns start to feel like a real deal.

Here's thread on official forums where i provide additional information
http://underrail.com/forums/index.php?topic=2008.msg11366#msg11366
There are some spoilery videos so be careful.

After attack speed nerf this build could probably be improved somehow but i'm just too butthurt to try myself.
 

Haplo

Prophet
Patron
Joined
Sep 14, 2016
Messages
6,170
Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire
Thank you very much for all your helpful advice.
Crafting is nice, but I guess it's not something I deeply care about after all. Early pistols lack... impact. It seems this build will take time to really get off.

So I tried the PSI hybrid build and found PSI great! So many tactical options at your fingertips. Low reliance on consumables (mostly just PSI/health hypos, maybe sometimes a grenade for a mech or a crowd) or crafting.
The beginning is a breeze with PSI. Perhaps eventually it will somewhat fall off.
So I guess I will go with modified Sykar's Ghost for now. With even more emphasis on PSI and Metathermics in particular. Love Pyromaniac so far! Good damage, can often get 2-3 enemies in the beam effect, and it's multi-hit, so almost guaranteed to incur burning/panicked. Of course, it will hardly effect enemies with any sort of heat resistance.
Later on, I look forward to breaking enemies, who are frozen solid.
 

Sykar

Arcane
Joined
Dec 2, 2014
Messages
11,297
Location
Turn right after Alpha Centauri
I'm looking forward to finally playing Underrail.

I've been looking at some potential builds and narrowed it down to 2 from this very thread, which I think I might have most fun with.
1. Sykar's PSI Stealth Sniper "Ghost"
2. hilfazer's Science! stealth pistol + 'nades and traps "Synergistic Glass Cannon of All Trades"

Any comments or recommendations?
Anything to help me decide or any other input would be welcome.

I have seen this very late but to comment on my build, it was not meant to be "super uber op", it was meant to optimize my personal preferences and above everything else I love options in any cRPG. Styg made a good game though and so my high flexibility has a steep cost: You rely on found weapons and uniques, which are not as powerful as self made stuff so there is a drop in late game compared to other builds.
It also needs a bit of awareness in case something goes wrong in the first round, either a corner to hide behind your set up force field well. It is a hit and run build with tremendous burst, Snipe+Proxy+Premed+TK Punch can fell anything. Heck I one shotted Balor with Snipe from Stealth with an armor piercing bullet and the AFW sniper rifle for example at a mere level 14.
Furthermore I make good use of the basic bear trap which has no skill requirement early on and use the EK Imprint later for in combat traps so I do not have to use Quick Tinkering for that. Aimed Shot is good extra burst though I have no extra crit damage modifiers.
Evasive Maneuers is not entirely needed but is situationally helpful when you have nowhere to run so you can use Sprint in conjunction with it.

I have also changed the build quite a bit and it went through 4 iterations. The latest version would look like this:
http://underrail.info.tm/build/?AwG...QO3PWNpI3UPygqbDvQyjlDgE4YsACyghWIbAiTUOWDWBA

I lost Meta and the nice Stasis->Aimed Shot combo but Persuasion lets you solve things like the Ratking situation very quickly and smoothly.
Though I have yet to try out how it would work with Mechanics instead of Biology which will be the next run.
 
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