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Underrail is mediocre (imo)

Darth Canoli

Arcane
Joined
Jun 8, 2018
Messages
5,260
Location
Perched on a tree
Initially I thought Underrail wasn't all that good - the interface was hard to look at, the writing could have been better, and at least back then on my first impression, the skill system was really braindead - or so I thought.

Having, much later, played it more thoroughly on Dominating as a knife thrower (before the knife throwing buffs ...) I can say that my first assessment was incorrect. Yes, the skill system could be improved - but it's the perks that make this game beautiful. Building characters in this game and theory crafting are a real joy. The writing isn't the very best - but the world is interesting, the atmosphere seeps through and the lore is mysterious in just the right way.

So when I gave it a second, longer look- it turned out to be a really fun RPG. Not one of my favorites due to the solo-Fallout vibe that's a bit lonely, but still a fun experience that I'm glad I got to have.

I mostly agree with you.
My crit/energy gun build (plus some traps and stealth) felt like shooting rubber ducks.

The exploration speed has been addressed.
Still, the early game is tedious, a way to skip it and start around level 5-6 while the early quest-line and the junkyard exploration are optional would be amazing.
And of course, having companions + adding enemies and eventually having companions draining some combat xp to balance the game.
Some encounter design here and there would be nice as well.

The game is decent/good.
It's fun, up until the stealth scorpions, I killed dozens of them but it's a chore after the first dozen.
 

Beans00

Augur
Joined
Aug 27, 2008
Messages
410
If the primary objective is either a) dealing with enemies or b) avoiding enemies in a completely hostile area then 100% yes.
Okay, lets play:
BuduIEq.png

d9Z8KYO.png

8N4TMLe.png
Conclusion: a fucking combat-oriented game.


Most of those are flat out wrong, you just failed miserably lol.
Just to pick one. Bust the skullz. You can do it without firing a shot, either by refusing to fight which is a cop out, or by getting the girl guarding them to testify against the skulls.



Underrail fans trying to slander fallout and coping about depot A not being a combat area. Look I like underrail too, and it's fine it's a completely combat oriented game. That being said making stuff up to suit your agenda just comes off as petty.





My tchort music video. I wept as I killed him.


Some things are too beautiful for this world.



Also I played with thick skull. Deal with it.
 

jackofshadows

Magister
Joined
Oct 21, 2019
Messages
3,414
If the primary objective is either a) dealing with enemies or b) avoiding enemies in a completely hostile area then 100% yes.
Okay, lets play:
BuduIEq.png

d9Z8KYO.png

8N4TMLe.png
Conclusion: a fucking combat-oriented game.


Most of those are flat out wrong, you just failed miserably lol.
Just to pick one. Bust the skullz. You can do it without firing a shot, either by refusing to fight which is a cop out, or by getting the girl guarding them to testify against the skulls.

Underrail fans trying to slander fallout and coping about depot A not being a combat area. Look I like underrail too, and it's fine it's a completely combat oriented game. That being said making stuff up to suit your agenda just comes off as petty.
The primary objective is almost literally dealing with them though. Peaceful solution doesn't alter your own criteria. Likewise you didn't mark kill the rathhouind king quest even though there's also peaceful solution there (and a shortcut to him).

Of course UR is a combat (and exploration) oriented game, it's even stated at its store page, hardly anyone argues against it but it was you who tried to diminish its quest design. Also don't forget that while Fallout has had random encounter system on global map, any UR's "connective" areas with mobs are essentially equivalent of that.

Now back to Fallout - its prominent pacifist playthrough possibility is more of a meme, a gimmick on the same level as it's almost possible in UR. "Look, I've just blowed that mariposa facility to ashes, I'm pacifistic as fuck!". As for the Master, as Chon already pointed out, it's simply too stupid, I'd cut that option from the game honestly. Arcanum's one was a lot more plausible imo. Anyway, their goal was to give potentially richer role-play experience than just killing enemies and UR have incorporated that very design, just in its own way.

Some prestigious kinks you have apparantely, judgiung by your assertive desire to let Tchort live.
 

agris

Arcane
Patron
Joined
Apr 16, 2004
Messages
5,478
Yet the best quest rewards are sometimes hidden behind the most peaceful solutions. Tards liking something doesn’t influence the quality of said thing.
 

Beans00

Augur
Joined
Aug 27, 2008
Messages
410
If the primary objective is either a) dealing with enemies or b) avoiding enemies in a completely hostile area then 100% yes.
Okay, lets play:
BuduIEq.png

d9Z8KYO.png

8N4TMLe.png
Conclusion: a fucking combat-oriented game.


Most of those are flat out wrong, you just failed miserably lol.
Just to pick one. Bust the skullz. You can do it without firing a shot, either by refusing to fight which is a cop out, or by getting the girl guarding them to testify against the skulls.

Underrail fans trying to slander fallout and coping about depot A not being a combat area. Look I like underrail too, and it's fine it's a completely combat oriented game. That being said making stuff up to suit your agenda just comes off as petty.
The primary objective is almost literally dealing with them though. Peaceful solution doesn't alter your own criteria. Likewise you didn't mark kill the rathhouind king quest even though there's also peaceful solution there (and a shortcut to him).

Of course UR is a combat (and exploration) oriented game, it's even stated at its store page, hardly anyone argues against it but it was you who tried to diminish its quest design. Also don't forget that while Fallout has had random encounter system on global map, any UR's "connective" areas with mobs are essentially equivalent of that.

Now back to Fallout - its prominent pacifist playthrough possibility is more of a meme, a gimmick on the same level as it's almost possible in UR. "Look, I've just blowed that mariposa facility to ashes, I'm pacifistic as fuck!". As for the Master, as Chon already pointed out, it's simply too stupid, I'd cut that option from the game honestly. Arcanum's one was a lot more plausible imo. Anyway, their goal was to give potentially richer role-play experience than just killing enemies and UR have incorporated that very design, just in its own way.

Some prestigious kinks you have apparantely, judgiung by your assertive desire to let Tchort live.



Well sir. Judging by your false presumption of intention of the developers. It is known they made the game to be playable to all player types.

What you are doing is running pure misinformation.


"The primary objective is almost literally dealing with them though."

Yet you are given the option to deal with them lawfully. Through witness testimony. This is pure misinformation, and cope.


"kill the rathhouind king quest"

Yes, the quest that requires you to run through like 6 caves full of rathounds, and rathound alphas along with one of those scorpions is 'peaceful'. Also I killed that freak, I don't negotiate with terrorists.


". Also don't forget that while Fallout has had random encounter system"

Encounters that can be completely bypassed using the OUTDOORSMAN SKILL. Yeah super good analogy 'man'.

""connective" areas with mobs are essentially equivalent of that."

If thats the cope you need to justify killing all those rathounds so be it lol. This however is completely false.

"a gimmick on the same level as it's almost possible in UR."

When, aside from maybe being peaceful with the institute or with the faceless in DC there's literally no equivalent. Either way you'll be fighting tchortlings constantly.


""Look, I've just blowed that mariposa facility to ashes, I'm pacifistic as fuck!"."

For starters a fallout fan would never type in poor english like this. Secondly, while infiltration is technically not 'pacifist' it is still an option equivalent or greater then pure stealth. I still consider the end game areas of fallout 1/2 to be combat areas FYI.

"UR have incorporated that very design, just in its own way."

Where. I'm not saying every UR quest is pure combat, but it is clearly much more combat oriented then fallout.

"Some prestigious kinks you have apparantely, judgiung by your assertive desire to let Tchort live."

Because Tchort is clearly not a true villain. He is a victim of incomplete writing. We are clearly shows a side of the story that gives favoritism to the brutish faceless.


BTFO

:hahyou:
 

will986

Barely Literate
Joined
Oct 31, 2021
Messages
2
If the primary objective is either a) dealing with enemies or b) avoiding enemies in a completely hostile area then 100% yes.
Okay, lets play:
BuduIEq.png

d9Z8KYO.png

8N4TMLe.png
Conclusion: a fucking combat-oriented game.


Most of those are flat out wrong, you just failed miserably lol.
Just to pick one. Bust the skullz. You can do it without firing a shot, either by refusing to fight which is a cop out, or by getting the girl guarding them to testify against the skulls.

Underrail fans trying to slander fallout and coping about depot A not being a combat area. Look I like underrail too, and it's fine it's a completely combat oriented game. That being said making stuff up to suit your agenda just comes off as petty.
The primary objective is almost literally dealing with them though. Peaceful solution doesn't alter your own criteria. Likewise you didn't mark kill the rathhouind king quest even though there's also peaceful solution there (and a shortcut to him).

Of course UR is a combat (and exploration) oriented game, it's even stated at its store page, hardly anyone argues against it but it was you who tried to diminish its quest design. Also don't forget that while Fallout has had random encounter system on global map, any UR's "connective" areas with mobs are essentially equivalent of that.

Now back to Fallout - its prominent pacifist playthrough possibility is more of a meme, a gimmick on the same level as it's almost possible in UR. "Look, I've just blowed that mariposa facility to ashes, I'm pacifistic as fuck!". As for the Master, as Chon already pointed out, it's simply too stupid, I'd cut that option from the game honestly. Arcanum's one was a lot more plausible imo. Anyway, their goal was to give potentially richer role-play experience than just killing enemies and UR have incorporated that very design, just in its own way.

Some prestigious kinks you have apparantely, judgiung by your assertive desire to let Tchort live.
unknown.png

It's comical you underestimate fallout.
 

Trashos

Arcane
Joined
Dec 28, 2015
Messages
3,217
Encounters that can be completely bypassed using the OUTDOORSMAN SKILL. Yeah super good analogy 'man'.

Yeah, and we have been telling you that most encounters in UR can be bypassed with Stealth, Lockpicking, Hacking, Pickpocketing (<--these are Skills in UR), and false-alarm explosives.

You don't have to fight any rathounds or death stalkers on your way to the Rathound King. I don't fight any.
 

jackofshadows

Magister
Joined
Oct 21, 2019
Messages
3,414
Well sir. Judging by your false presumption of intention of the developers. It is known they made the game to be playable to all player types.
Did it ever occur to you that 1 player might roleplay different types of characters? A rhetorical question. Judging by your other quotes you don't even know what roleplaying is.
Yet you are given the option to deal with them lawfully.
Or just to kill them if your char got combat skills. What matters is there're various solutions for different types of chars, not your personal preferences.
Yes, the quest that requires you to run through like 6 caves full of rathounds, and rathound alphas along with one of those scorpions is 'peaceful'. Also I killed that freak, I don't negotiate with terrorists
Like I said, there's a short cut with enough PER and again your irrelevant larping.
Encounters that can be completely bypassed using the OUTDOORSMAN SKILL. Yeah super good analogy 'man'.
Except in Fallout 1 that skill didn't allow skip. Learn your shit, don't embarass yourself.
Secondly, while infiltration is technically not 'pacifist' it is still an option equivalent or greater then pure stealth.
No shit. Do I have to remind you where UR protagonist is suppose to infiltrate instead of slaughtering way through? Oh, that's somehow different I guess. How can you have such limited perspective?
Because Tchort is clearly not a true villain. He is a victim of incomplete writing. We are clearly shows a side of the story that gives favoritism to the brutish faceless.
That's called head canon, essentially synonym of copium. No surprise you're repeating cope every other word. Project harder.
 

ItsChon

Resident Zoomer
Patron
Joined
Jul 1, 2018
Messages
3,906
Location
Երևան
Most of those the focus is on combat lol. Using stealth to avoid combat =/= focus not on combat.
First you say this, but then proceed to say this.
Most of those are flat out wrong, you just failed miserably lol.
Just to pick one. Bust the skullz. You can do it without firing a shot, either by refusing to fight which is a cop out, or by getting the girl guarding them to testify against the skulls.
Using persuasion to avoid combat =/= focus not on combat.

Do you not see how fallacious your logic is? And even if I give you Depot A.
If you're really trying to tell me depot A isn't a combat area. At this point this is the biggest cope I've ever seen haha :p
What about all the other quests that Sheepherder mentioned which you glossed over? You're so disingenuous it's sad.
Fallouts writing blows underrail out of the water completely.



Underrail has better writing then I expected, but compared to fallout and arcanum it's completely amateur.
Ah yes, the FO has quality writing meme. This is how you get your first companion in the game.

VD: "Could you help me out a bit? Your experience would be useful."

Ian: "Let's go! It'll be good to get back into action."

No questions about who the fuck this random person is or what his motivations are. No cash asked or no close relationship fostered through hardship. All it takes is a 45 second conversation and he's all aboard. Conversation with Katja goes about the same and Dogmeat is a fucking dog. Good writing my ass, miiss me with that fucking shit.
 

Beans00

Augur
Joined
Aug 27, 2008
Messages
410
Encounters that can be completely bypassed using the OUTDOORSMAN SKILL. Yeah super good analogy 'man'.

Yeah, and we have been telling you that most encounters in UR can be bypassed with Stealth, Lockpicking, Hacking, Pickpocketing (<--these are Skills in UR), and false-alarm explosives.

You don't have to fight any rathounds or death stalkers on your way to the Rathound King. I don't fight any.


Yeah you can bypass combat in combat focused areas.


The world map in fallout isn't a 'combat focused area'. The tunnels in underrail infested with trashmobs are.
 

luj1

You're all shills
Vatnik
Joined
Jan 2, 2016
Messages
6,835
Location
Eastern block
@ItsChon

"
False. When I look at Fallout, I see only four ways to build my character.

1) Melee Fighter/Idiot
2) Sniper
3) Heavy Gunner
4) Pacifist

When I look at Underrail, I see at least five times as many ways to build my character. And these different builds aren't superficial at all, they change how you play the game in very meaningful ways, which is why the game is so damn replayable. Does this not count as a form of player freedom? The sheer amount of content Underrail has also leads to more player freedom by sheer volume then a game like Fallout 1. Also, you can play a drug addict in Underrail. There's a feat for it and everything where you become addicted to motion, so even though there's no sex, that's still pretty damn good."

You're forgetting some key features in the fallout games. Variance. For example you can throw a wrench into any game with the Jinxed perk. You can play as a low IQ who can barely speak. You can beat the game killing everyone in every town minus a few characters or by killing no one.

Once as a kid in a fallout 2 run I played as a sex addict junkie. I had sex with a farm girl, married her, sold her into slavery to buy jet. Told her father about it, he had a heard attack then I sold all his belongings to buy jet. Fallout 1-2 are so beloved by true rpg fans because of the variance they bring and the amount of ways to complete objectives.

Take rescuing tandi in fallout 1.
1. Kill everyone
2. buy her
3. hand to hand combat with raider leader
4. stealth/lockpick
5. the stealthboy ghost trick
Maybe some others I don't know. It clearly gives many solutions for many different character builds though.

Or even the baby quest to kill shady sands rad scorpions. You can detonate the cave wall to avoid killing any scorpions and they will live happily inside the save lol :).



Now with underrail we have

Killing rathounds with fists
killing rathounds with knives
killing rathounds with smg
killing rathounds with sniper
killing rathounds with hammer
killing rathounds with mind magic
killing rathounds with chemical pistol
killing rathounds with mechanical pistol
killing rathounds with energy pistol
killing rathounds with crossbow
killing rathounds with grenades
killing rathounds with traps


You are moving the goal posts from build variety to quest solution variety
 

Beans00

Augur
Joined
Aug 27, 2008
Messages
410
Well sir. Judging by your false presumption of intention of the developers. It is known they made the game to be playable to all player types.
Did it ever occur to you that 1 player might roleplay different types of characters? A rhetorical question. Judging by your other quotes you don't even know what roleplaying is.
Yet you are given the option to deal with them lawfully.
Or just to kill them if your char got combat skills. What matters is there're various solutions for different types of chars, not your personal preferences.
Yes, the quest that requires you to run through like 6 caves full of rathounds, and rathound alphas along with one of those scorpions is 'peaceful'. Also I killed that freak, I don't negotiate with terrorists
Like I said, there's a short cut with enough PER and again your irrelevant larping.
Encounters that can be completely bypassed using the OUTDOORSMAN SKILL. Yeah super good analogy 'man'.
Except in Fallout 1 that skill didn't allow skip. Learn your shit, don't embarass yourself.
Secondly, while infiltration is technically not 'pacifist' it is still an option equivalent or greater then pure stealth.
No shit. Do I have to remind you where UR protagonist is suppose to infiltrate instead of slaughtering way through? Oh, that's somehow different I guess. How can you have such limited perspective?
Because Tchort is clearly not a true villain. He is a victim of incomplete writing. We are clearly shows a side of the story that gives favoritism to the brutish faceless.
That's called head canon, essentially synonym of copium. No surprise you're repeating cope every other word. Project harder.



"Did it ever occur to you that 1 player might roleplay different types of characters? A rhetorical question. Judging by your other quotes you don't even know what roleplaying is."
"Or just to kill them if your char got combat skills. What matters is there're various solutions for different types of chars, not your personal preferences."

Thanks for agreeing with me. Underrail build variance amounts to killing enemies with crossbows or smgs. Fallout has true build variance amounting to vastly different playstyles.

"Like I said, there's a short cut with enough PER and again your irrelevant larping."
I'm talking about the caves leading up to his lair. have you even done that quest lol?

"Except in Fallout 1 that skill didn't allow skip. Learn your shit, don't embarass yourself."

Not sure what your point here is, I'm assuming this is a miss translation since english isn't your first language.

"No shit. Do I have to remind you where UR protagonist is suppose to infiltrate instead of slaughtering way through? Oh, that's somehow different I guess. How can you have such limited perspective?"
It is different because the tchortists aren't inherently hostile. They are only made hostile via poor writing and lack of depth added.

"That's called head canon, essentially synonym of copium. No surprise you're repeating cope every other word. Project harder."

Not sure what your point here is, I'm assuming this is a miss translation since english isn't your first language.
 

Beans00

Augur
Joined
Aug 27, 2008
Messages
410
Most of those the focus is on combat lol. Using stealth to avoid combat =/= focus not on combat.
First you say this, but then proceed to say this.
Most of those are flat out wrong, you just failed miserably lol.
Just to pick one. Bust the skullz. You can do it without firing a shot, either by refusing to fight which is a cop out, or by getting the girl guarding them to testify against the skulls.
Using persuasion to avoid combat =/= focus not on combat.

Do you not see how fallacious your logic is? And even if I give you Depot A.
If you're really trying to tell me depot A isn't a combat area. At this point this is the biggest cope I've ever seen haha :p
What about all the other quests that Sheepherder mentioned which you glossed over? You're so disingenuous it's sad.
Fallouts writing blows underrail out of the water completely.



Underrail has better writing then I expected, but compared to fallout and arcanum it's completely amateur.
Ah yes, the FO has quality writing meme. This is how you get your first companion in the game.

VD: "Could you help me out a bit? Your experience would be useful."

Ian: "Let's go! It'll be good to get back into action."

No questions about who the fuck this random person is or what his motivations are. No cash asked or no close relationship fostered through hardship. All it takes is a 45 second conversation and he's all aboard. Conversation with Katja goes about the same and Dogmeat is a fucking dog. Good writing my ass, miiss me with that fucking shit.

Please point out some examples of fallouts writing compared to underrails writing. Fallouts world was more unique, more depth characters were far more interesting to talk to.


As for the other quests I'll go through them one by one.
  • Find Drill Parts - combat is very optional if you go stealth + hacking/lockpicking. I've done it a few times when I played builds that don't come online until late teens. There are so so many ways to go through depA and combat is just the most obvious one.
  • Missing Merchants - talk in CS, stealth and grab the keycard in the cave (optional), talk to Cornell and let him go if you wanna. Keycard is optional, and one of the two pig areas are a bit tricky to get past without combat.
  • Save Maura is absolutely intended to be done stealthily. Multiple ways to get keys, with or without lp. There's even a failstate if you tell her to make a run for it without providing a path through airvents.
  • Get Elwood's key - pickpocket lol
  • Mysterious disk - below Dom can be done without combat, on Dom has combat, kinda. Use vents to get to the room. On Dom there's a plasma sentry in the room, so use an EMP to disable it and grab the disk. It can't open doors so close the door and wait out the combat.
  • Kill Rathound King - you did play a perception build, right? You did pick Snooping, right? No? Well, you can get 11 effective perception with base PER of 3 through gear and consumables. You can skip all of the maze with like 11 or 13 PER and then go for the diplomatic solution.
  • Kidnap Serene - you gotta throw one (1) flashbang to incap her to enable the kidnapping.
  • RC faceless quesline - I've done it without combat. To get the EMP thingy use TNT to lure the Ironheads to the other side of the map and sneak past. Inside, grab the thingy, hack the terminal to open everything, disable cameras and gtfo. Then in RC, bots will be disabled and in the cavers use TNT to lure the burrowers away from the destructible wall, then plant TNT to destroy the wall, use TNT again to lure the burrowers away from the new exit. Burrower spawn don't go back to their original positions after checking out noise, so you can herd them to some corner and forget about them. Regular Burrowers and warriors do go to their original positions.
  • Train Heist - no combat. Not even if you choose to join Protectorate, just talk to the man and go tell on them to the Protectorate NPC.
  • Med Thief - no combat, just catch him in the hospital.
  • Dude's Vision - sneak past the bot. The two Ironheads on your way there can be bypassed by taking another route.

Drill parts is absolutely a combat quest.

Missing merchants is absolutely a combat quest.

Save maura I did via stealth since I was far under leveled at the time(as I assume most people would be). It is absolutely a combat quest as their is no peaceful solution aside from sneaking or killing the protectorate guards.

Elwood I would say is non combat

Mysterious disk is clearly a combat quest. Sneaking past hostile sentry bots =/= non combat.

Kill rathound king. I guess the quest itself has a peaceful solution but to even get there you need to walk through 3-4 caves full of trashmobs.

Kidnap serene. I didn't realize flashbanging some woman isn't considered combat, my bad.

RC faceless quesline- Give me a break lol. This is absolutely a combat quest whether you kill the faceless or not. Herding burrowers into a corner. Please.

Train Heist & med thief- both true. These quests are so small i completely forgot about them.

Dudes vision- Literally requires you to go through like 5 maps of trashmobs or more.


So 3 quests out of the 11 listed.





luj1 the game has been changed, the goalposts shifted. Lines have been drawn and now there is no turning back sadly. I am however enjoying the spirited debate.
 

jackofshadows

Magister
Joined
Oct 21, 2019
Messages
3,414
It is different because the tchortists aren't inherently hostile. They are only made hostile via poor writing and lack of depth added.
It doesn't even matter whether tchortists hostile or not. I'll make UR plot real simple to you since you clearly need it. UR protagonist may be a champion among men but he still is a fucking nothing next to Godmen. A mere pawn. Godmen use him again and again but that's just how things are. At least he makes history along with them. So you don't get to choose shit when it comes to Tchort (and the cube). Yes, that's it. Imagine if Odysseus instead of accepting Aphene's help at some point would suddenly say "you know what, cunt? I know better, fu*quack!* - no more "great" Odysseus.

But I guess if you wasn't able to understand even simpler things like how outdoorsman skill work in Fallout 1 it's like talking to a wall.
 
Joined
Jan 14, 2018
Messages
42,502

Beans00

Augur
Joined
Aug 27, 2008
Messages
410
It is different because the tchortists aren't inherently hostile. They are only made hostile via poor writing and lack of depth added.
It doesn't even matter whether tchortists hostile or not. I'll make UR plot real simple to you since you clearly need it. UR protagonist may be a champion among men but he still is a fucking nothing next to Godmen. A mere pawn. Godmen use him again and again but that's just how things are. At least he makes history along with them. So you don't get to choose shit when it comes to Tchort (and the cube). Yes, that's it. Imagine if Odysseus instead of accepting Aphene's help at some point would suddenly say "you know what, cunt? I know better, fu*quack!* - no more "great" Odysseus.

But I guess if you wasn't able to understand even simpler things like how outdoorsman skill work in Fallout 1 it's like talking to a wall.

All you did was highlight poor writing then make the same point about outdoorsman which again makes no sense.


Skill that allows you to make world map encounters optional. Very simple concept.

Walking through tunnels of endless trashmobs.


Not the same thing.. lol
 

Beans00

Augur
Joined
Aug 27, 2008
Messages
410
Whatever. Even then, you have a skill which allows you to likely skip RE. How is that conceptually different from stealth and transitional areas from UR?

Fallout also has stealth. Stealth and outdoorsman.

In fallout you can stealth by trash mobs too, and it's good fallout(and underrail) give you the option to do that, but it's not the same thing as bypassing encounters entirely.
 
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