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Underrail is mediocre (imo)

Agesilaus

Antiquity Studio
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Grab the Codex by the pussy Codex USB, 2014 Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag.
Behead those who insult Underrail

Typical low-tier underrail gamer response; you're another min-maxxing combatfag who can't comprehend anything beyond "damage number go up". Underrail dropped the ball re: Tchort, badly. The injustice is that true aristocratic gamers like myself and Beans00 have to put up with you polluting our fine gaming forums, as we discuss the higher aspects of storyfaggotry.
 

Beans00

Augur
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Messages
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First because the new forum layout is terrible and I can't figure out how to stop quote pyramids. I would like to thank ItsChon for replying to me. Even if we disagree I enjoy the spirited debate.


Secondly addressing your points.

"As others have stated previously, you technically only need to kill the final boss to do any of the main story line quests. Regardless, taking your point at face value, how retarded is it to think that you can solve every problem by just talking. The game isn't centered around a scientist working in the Engineering and Computing divisions at SGS, or an agriculturalist working in Hydroponics. You're expected to fight, and the station takes you because of your proficiency in it."


All this is true. Yet all this adds up to the game having less options then say fallout, or arcanum in regards to player freedom. The game is clearly more focused on combat, which is OK for people who like combat. I found Underrails combat enjoyable enough. Sometimes though I like to play a pacifist. Or a sex addicted drug addict.

Fallout 2 allowed me to do this, Underrail didn't.

"Kek. I always thought that this was so fucking stupid. The Master has this big, grand plan, but he never thought to check whether or not these Mutants he's creating are fertile or not? Let's just ignore the fact that massive amounts of radiation/viral exposure leads to infertility, and genocide everyone wihtout doing some research. He's had how many years to plan this? And he's supposed to have huge intellectual capabilities as well, right? As for his "depth", his motivations and reasons are retarded and utterly basic/uninspired."

Because the master was trying to build a pure society, free of degeneracy. He would never lower himself to watching pornography.




As for Tchort. He is clearly the victim of the story, and we are simply given a lack of depth. I saw through the faceless propaganda. Many in the underrail community didn't/can't.
Below I will include the best of the underrail community. The types of people who have 1500 hours on the game and spend their time discussing how to most efficiently kill rathounds with spear and hammer builds. The types of people who don't wash their hands after using the toilet.




6jyv8ee.png



MGtp00F.png


XxNhQN5.png


0C9TF6w.png







For the record I LIKE underrail. I would even say I greatly enjoyed it. However I don't consider it on the level as the other top RPGs of all time.
 

Trashos

Arcane
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Dec 28, 2015
Messages
3,413
The Protectorate is fine. It has cool people and idiots like everywhere. I thought the Protectorate vs Free Drones situation was presented in a very balanced way.

Not wanting to fight Tchort is one thing, but saying that "he is clearly the victim"... I don't see what that is based on. We don't have enough information. And the same thing has been noted by others in the conversation you attached.

And even if Tchort were the victim, which he may well not have been, I still fail to see why UR needed to have a Happy Ending necessarily.

EDIT: Also, kind reminder that Fallout didn't end well for the protagonist.
 
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Marat

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Funny thing about Tchort, I was confused as to the proper pronunciation of the word. T-hort? T-kort? Then, just before Deep Caverns I randomly remembered Styg is a slav, just like me and it clicked. Tchort is definitely evil.
 

Urthor

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Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire
I agree with OP.

Underrail has many attractive aspects.

But if I wasn't using code injection to *multiply* the game's movement speed by 3, I would actually have quit the game in frustration.

Movement takes SO long by default. And OP is right, there are a LOT of fetch quests. So much mind numbing movement times and fetch quests. Only the hardcore autistic are willing to put up with "default settings" Underrail.

And if I've learnt anything about making software to sell to folks, 90% of gamers and 98% of human beings DON'T change the default settings. They trust the game developer to have the correct default settings out of the box.

IMO

Without code injection and lengthy tweaking of the game's settings menu, Underrail is a 4/10 game for me. All the RPG mechanics are beautiful, but I'd be bored senseless.
 
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Blackmill

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Messages
326
The game tricks the player into thinking there is a lot of building variety until you discover that many skills and feats are useless.

Past the early game, nearly every weapon type is viable as the player's primary weapon. Sniper rifles and bare fists are the only arguable exceptions, but a determined player could still win the game on dominating difficulty using any of those exclusively.

Of Underrail's 23 skills, there are 20 which are undeniably worthy of heavy investment for some build, and only Pickpocket seems truly terrible compared to the rest (even so, it's okay in theory, my reflexes are just too slow to pickpocket ammo and weapons from enemies).

Regarding feats, I've found use for all but six non-Veteran feats.

Underrail has numerous faults, but build variety is not one of them.
 

Camel

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Didn’t touch BG2 because it attempts to fix BG1’s flaws but ends up being just as flawed as the first game in a backwards way, Companions would be the major improvement.
How do you know that BG2 is just as flawed if you didn’t touch it? Genuine question.
 

ItsChon

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Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag.
All this is true. Yet all this adds up to the game having less options then say fallout, or arcanum in regards to player freedom. The game is clearly more focused on combat, which is OK for people who like combat. I found Underrails combat enjoyable enough. Sometimes though I like to play a pacifist. Or a sex addicted drug addict.

Fallout 2 allowed me to do this, Underrail didn't.
False. When I look at Fallout, I see only four ways to build my character.

1) Melee Fighter/Idiot
2) Sniper
3) Heavy Gunner
4) Pacifist

When I look at Underrail, I see at least five times as many ways to build my character. And these different builds aren't superficial at all, they change how you play the game in very meaningful ways, which is why the game is so damn replayable. Does this not count as a form of player freedom? The sheer amount of content Underrail has also leads to more player freedom by sheer volume then a game like Fallout 1. Also, you can play a drug addict in Underrail. There's a feat for it and everything where you become addicted to motion, so even though there's no sex, that's still pretty damn good.

I'd also like to point out that even if one game might have more "player freedom" in regards to the sheer number of choices that can be made, that doesn't say anything about the quality of choices. If I can build my character fifty different ways, but the game's combat system is dogshit, then what use is it? I'll take a game like KotC which only has three classes, with a few different ways to build them, and an excellent combat system where said choices matter, over the first game. This is what Underrail is to Fallout and Arcanum. I don't care if Arcanum or Fallout have one or two features that aren't present in Underrail, because Underrail executes almost everything that it has in ways that are far superior to either of those two games. So what if I can talk the Master into killing himself? The entire Tchort quest line, where we find out about its existence, infiltrate the University, and realize how it was created, is way more awesome and cool then anything we find out about the Master.
Because the master was trying to build a pure society, free of degeneracy. He would never lower himself to watching pornography.
No one said anything about watching. He could have waited to see if any one of the Super Mutants he created ended up getting pregnant. How long would this take? A few years at most? If he was trying to make a pure society, free of degeneracy, then he should know that apathy is one of the highest forms of degeneracy, and he should have been absolutely certain before he decided to genocide and entire race. I know you're memeing, but meh, weak argument. The fact that the Master's plan was doomed to failure is decline, and the choice would've been a lot more impactful if the Master was actually correct about his ability to have Super Mutants repopulate the earth.
As for Tchort. He is clearly the victim of the story, and we are simply given a lack of depth. I saw through the faceless propaganda. Many in the underrail community didn't/can't.
Below I will include the best of the underrail community. The types of people who have 1500 hours on the game and spend their time discussing how to most efficiently kill rathounds with spear and hammer builds. The types of people who don't wash their hands after using the toilet.
In your very own screenshots, the guy who is defending Tchort fails to explain the existence of the rejects in the basement. He fails to explain how Detritus, a willing and hopeful member of the University and potential loyal follower to Tchort, being turned into a mutated monster who's entire existence is suffering, is justified in any way. If Tchort is willing to do that to someone who wants to help him, then he's clearly scum and deserves to be put down.
For the record I LIKE underrail. I would even say I greatly enjoyed it. However I don't consider it on the level as the other top RPGs of all time.
And what RPGs can compete with it? PS:T I can see being argued, but what else? FO and FO2 have inferior writing, world building, art direction and gameplay as a whole. Arcanum is broken, buggy, mess of a game that has a terrible combat system. FO:NV, Deus Ex, VotM:B, Morrowind are all examples of decline, being dogshit first/third person walking simulators with bad combat and shit art style. Please name these RPG greats that are so awesome.
 

smaug

Secular Koranism with Israeli Characteristics
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Didn’t touch BG2 because it attempts to fix BG1’s flaws but ends up being just as flawed as the first game in a backwards way, Companions would be the major improvement.
How do you know that BG2 is just as flawed if you didn’t touch it? Genuine question.
I played the game up until chapter 4. If you actually read what I said, I mentioned the main improvement at the end.
 

Yosharian

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The game tricks the player into thinking there is a lot of building variety until you discover that many skills and feats are useless.

Past the early game, nearly every weapon type is viable as the player's primary weapon. Sniper rifles and bare fists are the only arguable exceptions, but a determined player could still win the game on dominating difficulty using any of those exclusively.

Of Underrail's 23 skills, there are 20 which are undeniably worthy of heavy investment for some build, and only Pickpocket seems truly terrible compared to the rest (even so, it's okay in theory, my reflexes are just too slow to pickpocket ammo and weapons from enemies).

Regarding feats, I've found use for all but six non-Veteran feats.

Underrail has numerous faults, but build variety is not one of them.
Fists are extremely powerful with the right build
 

luj1

You're all shills
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All this is true. Yet all this adds up to the game having less options then say fallout, or arcanum in regards to player freedom. The game is clearly more focused on combat, which is OK for people who like combat. I found Underrails combat enjoyable enough. Sometimes though I like to play a pacifist. Or a sex addicted drug addict.

Fallout 2 allowed me to do this, Underrail didn't.
False. When I look at Fallout, I see only four ways to build my character.

1) Melee Fighter/Idiot
2) Sniper
3) Heavy Gunner
4) Pacifist

When I look at Underrail, I see at least five times as many ways to build my character.

this has always been the problem with Fallout

Fallout is GOAT but it has poor build variety

in that regard Underrail trumps it
 

jackofshadows

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Oct 21, 2019
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Past the early game, nearly every weapon type is viable as the player's primary weapon. Sniper rifles and bare fists are the only arguable exceptions
Love playing sniper on DOM, had no idea it's somehow inferior choice of weapon. Although it kinda requires a support weapon, yeah. Like when you deal with burrowers.

Pickpocket is useful too with the expansion - many NPC carry all sort of drugs, especially in that floating bar. Extra xp and even extra option in a few quests also means a lot. Also can help just like in Fallout when you're preemptively steal drugs/ammo and then start combat.
 

Grauken

Gourd vibes only
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EDIT: Also, kind reminder that Fallout didn't end well for the protagonist.
It did, he moved out of the basement, saved the world, founded his own village, and left a lasting legacy. What more would you want?
 

Tigranes

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Past the early game, nearly every weapon type is viable as the player's primary weapon. Sniper rifles and bare fists are the only arguable exceptions
Love playing sniper on DOM, had no idea it's somehow inferior choice of weapon. Although it kinda requires a support weapon, yeah. Like when you deal with burrowers.

Pickpocket is useful too with the expansion - many NPC carry all sort of drugs, especially in that floating bar. Extra xp and even extra option in a few quests also means a lot. Also can help just like in Fallout when you're preemptively steal drugs/ammo and then start combat.
To back this up, Sniper on dom can handle most situations with just sniper - though obviously it is more convenient with a sidearm.

On oddity, ~55 pickpocket can be a huge XP accelerator up to ~level 12 (when world opens up and you grab a lot of oddities like the faction ones immediately).
 

orcinator

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Republic of Kongou
character building in buildfag games would be more interesting if there was some kind of -- perhaps for a lack of a better term, random element -- to it that caused the player to react in some way rather than just following a simple template
going to think on this for a bit
:avatard:
That's why the best buildfag rpg is Civilization 5 (with the Brave New World expansion pack!)
Roguish RPGs trail far behind but would be a better fit for the build variety UR has since you get different situations to use your build in and might even face the final boss every run instead of going through the same rat caves and raider bases before quitting after you get 2swole2control.
 

Trashos

Arcane
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Dec 28, 2015
Messages
3,413
It is important to note that UR has been supported aaaall this time, and a lot of systems have evolved significantly. Some complaints I see here have been addressed. Pickpocketing has become deterministic. It is perfectly fine, and we have seen players get addicted to pickpocketing. You can change game speed from within game for a while now. Etc-etc.

he moved out of the basement, saved the world, founded his own village, and left a lasting legacy. What more would you want?

At the time FO ended, I didn't know I was founding any village. All I knew was that I was getting exiled by my own people. We can debate whether that was a good thing or not, but I was not given a choice.
 

Beans00

Augur
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Aug 27, 2008
Messages
979
POOPERSCOOPER yes expedition is ok, imo not as good as the main game but it adds in some good features, new weapons new quests, new region of the map ect. Some of the dungeons in it are pure cancer though.

ItsChon

"
False. When I look at Fallout, I see only four ways to build my character.

1) Melee Fighter/Idiot
2) Sniper
3) Heavy Gunner
4) Pacifist

When I look at Underrail, I see at least five times as many ways to build my character. And these different builds aren't superficial at all, they change how you play the game in very meaningful ways, which is why the game is so damn replayable. Does this not count as a form of player freedom? The sheer amount of content Underrail has also leads to more player freedom by sheer volume then a game like Fallout 1. Also, you can play a drug addict in Underrail. There's a feat for it and everything where you become addicted to motion, so even though there's no sex, that's still pretty damn good."

You're forgetting some key features in the fallout games. Variance. For example you can throw a wrench into any game with the Jinxed perk. You can play as a low IQ who can barely speak. You can beat the game killing everyone in every town minus a few characters or by killing no one.

Once as a kid in a fallout 2 run I played as a sex addict junkie. I had sex with a farm girl, married her, sold her into slavery to buy jet. Told her father about it, he had a heard attack then I sold all his belongings to buy jet. Fallout 1-2 are so beloved by true rpg fans because of the variance they bring and the amount of ways to complete objectives.

Take rescuing tandi in fallout 1.
1. Kill everyone
2. buy her
3. hand to hand combat with raider leader
4. stealth/lockpick
5. the stealthboy ghost trick
Maybe some others I don't know. It clearly gives many solutions for many different character builds though.

Or even the baby quest to kill shady sands rad scorpions. You can detonate the cave wall to avoid killing any scorpions and they will live happily inside the save lol :).



Now with underrail we have

Killing rathounds with fists
killing rathounds with knives
killing rathounds with smg
killing rathounds with sniper
killing rathounds with hammer
killing rathounds with mind magic
killing rathounds with chemical pistol
killing rathounds with mechanical pistol
killing rathounds with energy pistol
killing rathounds with crossbow
killing rathounds with grenades
killing rathounds with traps

...ect. I played underrail completely blind,hard difficulty, first and only time through as a sort of stealth/grenade/smg type build. Frankly I fail to see how the game will be any different using other builds other then maybe me being tankier and using less traps and ambushes.

The game is Kill enemy, Kill enemy, Kill enemy. Which is ok. I enjoyed it way more then I like most dungeon crawlers. I enjoyed the combat and the world building. I did NOT enjoy having to kill tchort though.


"No one said anything about watching. He could have waited to see if any one of the Super Mutants he created ended up getting pregnant. How long would this take? A few years at most? If he was trying to make a pure society, free of degeneracy, then he should know that apathy is one of the highest forms of degeneracy, and he should have been absolutely certain before he decided to genocide and entire race. I know you're memeing, but meh, weak argument. The fact that the Master's plan was doomed to failure is decline, and the choice would've been a lot more impactful if the Master was actually correct about his ability to have Super Mutants repopulate the earth."


The master lives for higher ideals. Not for pornography. I don't watch porn either so I happen to agree with him.


"In your very own screenshots, the guy who is defending Tchort fails to explain the existence of the rejects in the basement. He fails to explain how Detritus, a willing and hopeful member of the University and potential loyal follower to Tchort, being turned into a mutated monster who's entire existence is suffering, is justified in any way. If Tchort is willing to do that to someone who wants to help him, then he's clearly scum and deserves to be put down."


Detritus betrayed tchort and was punished for it. I'm glad he was turned into a dog, when I found him I left him that way so he could live the rest of his miserable life in shame.
I feel this highlights the biggest problem with the Underrail fanbase(not the game). Most of you guys know the perfect feats memorized for 20 autistic builds but can't even read the very well written and plainly written story.



As for the last part, you are clearly an Underrail fanboy and that's ok. I am a fanboy of several games myself. Most of the games you listed I consider superior to underrail except morrowind which is garbage and vampire which I never played. Like I said I liked Underrail alot so I don't really care about shitting on your parade like I would fanboys of bad games.

For contemporary games(ie post 2012 non AAA). I consider Atom superior to Underrail.




Also the deep caverns sucked ass. Don't pretend you liked them. You didn't and are trying to sound hard.(this isnt directed at itschon but underrail fans in general)
 

ItsChon

Resident Zoomer
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Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag.
You're forgetting some key features in the fallout games. Variance.
Oh really. Alright, this should be good.
For example you can throw a wrench into any game with the Jinxed perk.
Broooo come on. Why are Fallout fans amused by every little fucking innocuous thing. Jinxed is fun for a laugh, but are you really going to tell me this is an example of variance? You play through the vast majority of the game with a 95% THC for fucks sake. Whatever, sure we'll give you this one.
You can play as a low IQ who can barely speak.
Yeah I already said that. Melee Idiot was one of the four builds I mentioned.
You can beat the game killing everyone in every town minus a few characters
You can literally do this in Underrail too.
by killing no one.
You can literally do this in Underrail outside of having to kill Tchort. And even with that exception, going through the entire game without killing anyone is still enough to qualify as variance.
Once as a kid in a fallout 2 run I played as a sex addict junkie. I had sex with a farm girl, married her, sold her into slavery to buy jet. Told her father about it, he had a heard attack then I sold all his belongings to buy jet. Fallout 1-2 are so beloved by true rpg fans because of the variance they bring and the amount of ways to complete objectives.

Take rescuing tandi in fallout 1.
1. Kill everyone
2. buy her
3. hand to hand combat with raider leader
4. stealth/lockpick
5. the stealthboy ghost trick
Maybe some others I don't know. It clearly gives many solutions for many different character builds though.

Or even the baby quest to kill shady sands rad scorpions. You can detonate the cave wall to avoid killing any scorpions and they will live happily inside the save lol :).
That's cool and all but I can give just as good anecdotes from Underrail.

Take solving the Foundry Murders.
1) Investigate the murders and stumble upon a locked bunker complex which you lockpick/hack into. Upon searching the bunker you find information outing the murderer and report them to the police.

2) Try to get down and dirt with a MILF, only for her to drug you, strip you naked, and try to kill you.

a) You can attack her on sight and try to beat her to death with your bare hands while simultaneously trying not to get stabbed.

b) You can jump down the garbage disposal to her basement bunker and try to either escape or figure out how to deal with her.
- You can hack into the bunker's defense systems and turn her auto turrets against her.
- You can manipulate the power in the bunker while sneaking around to avoid getting spotted, luring her to dangerous electric flooring, and then reactivating the power to kill her.
- Use your skills in mechanical engineering to create a crossbow and shoot her to death with it.
- Lock pick into a weapons cabinet and utilize the assault rifle and armor inside to deal with her.
- Escape through a ladder into the dangerous slums and flee to notify the authorities.

There are tons of different solutions for many character builds here, and there are many other quests I can cite. Your point is irrelevant, and if we really want to trade quest for quest/crazy story for crazy story, I bet I'll win by virtue of how much more content there is in Underrail compared to either FO or FO2.
Now with underrail we have

Killing rathounds with fists
killing rathounds with knives
killing rathounds with smg
killing rathounds with sniper
killing rathounds with hammer
killing rathounds with mind magic
killing rathounds with chemical pistol
killing rathounds with mechanical pistol
killing rathounds with energy pistol
killing rathounds with crossbow
killing rathounds with grenades
killing rathounds with traps

...ect. I played underrail completely blind,hard difficulty, first and only time through as a sort of stealth/grenade/smg type build. Frankly I fail to see how the game will be any different using other builds other then maybe me being tankier and using less traps and ambushes.

The game is Kill enemy, Kill enemy, Kill enemy. Which is ok. I enjoyed it way more then I like most dungeon crawlers. I enjoyed the combat and the world building. I did NOT enjoy having to kill tchort though.
Alright bro, this must be some low effort troll. There are so many different quests in Underrail with a ton of different ways to resolve them. You haven't even used another build but you're standing here trying to tell me all this shit about how the game has no variance? When did you even finish the game? You know there has been plenty of content added in the last few years? Miss me with this shit, you're just speaking nonsense now.
The master lives for higher ideals. Not for pornography. I don't watch porn either so I happen to agree with him.
'k, just ignore what I wrote.
Detritus betrayed tchort and was punished for it. I'm glad he was turned into a dog, when I found him I left him that way so he could live the rest of his miserable life in shame.
I feel this highlights the biggest problem with the Underrail fanbase(not the game). Most of you guys know the perfect feats memorized for 20 autistic builds but can't even read the very well written and plainly written story.
Alright sure bro. Please cite to me where this betrayal came from. And even if he did betray Tchort, what about the rejects? Let's keep ignoring them.
As for the last part, you are clearly an Underrail fanboy and that's ok. I am a fanboy of several games myself. Most of the games you listed I consider superior to underrail except morrowind which is garbage and vampire which I never played. Like I said I liked Underrail alot so I don't really care about shitting on your parade like I would fanboys of bad games.

For contemporary games(ie post 2012 non AAA). I consider Atom superior to Underrail.




Also the deep caverns sucked ass. Don't pretend you liked them. You didn't and are trying to sound hard.(this isnt directed at itschon but underrail fans in general)
The first time around DC was a mixed bag, but going back it's a ton of fun now that I know where everything is and how to avoid getting tons of stacks. With the recent updates, DC can be completely super quickly with almost no back tracking, and once Tchort is eliminated, you can explore the rest of the DC in peace.

As for me being a fanboy, this is true, but my opinions are actually good. FO:NV better than Underrail? Lmfao right. This is why it's useless to engage with FO fans. The vast majority of them are middle aged, past their prime adults, who no longer have the same interest in video games (justifiably so). So of course, their first experience is going to stand out as amazing and awesome in their heads while newer games, no matter how good, won't be able to recapture that same magic. It is a fact that very few people are able to properly identify their biases and make judgements based on facts versus feelings, and that's why so many people rate FO/FO2 so highly. Not sure what I expected from someone with a FO avatar.
 

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