Underrail: The Incline Awakens

[CHEMS]

locust nests

They're cancer. Not hard, not challenging, just plain annoying.

 

[Parabalus]

locust nests

They're cancer. Not hard, not challenging, just plain annoying.

If you see a locust best to skip that area, there is only garbage behind all of them.

 

[Blaine]

I've been tinkering around with a Crossbows/Traps build in the character builder, and I'm extremely unimpressed. I'm getting mad all over again.

The vaunted strength of Crossbows is versatility, but this requires filling up some of your utility slots, accompanied by a near-mandatory feat-suck—Marksman at a minimum, and almost certainly Special Tactics as well. Grenades, on the other hand, are equally versatile, but require far less Throwing skill to be effective, are AoE, and really only call for Grenadier, which isn't terribly hard to skip if you only plan to use them as openers.

Crossbows in general is a massive feat-sucking black hole of a skill, especially if you want to rely on crits, since Bowyer and Critical Power then become totally mandatory (and essentially limit you to Zephyr crossbow frames). I filled up my entire level 30 quota of feats in no time, and there were still feats I felt I absolutely needed, which is highly unusual. Maximizing the utility aspect of Crossbows requires Hypertoxicity, Elemental Bolts, Marksman, Special Tactics, and Quick Pockets; maximizing damage requires Recklessness, Scrutinous, Critical Power, Sharpshooter, and Bowyer. In either case, you're most likely going to want Snipe (and thus Aimed Shot) as well.

Then you have to load up on Opportunist and possibly Deadly Snares to maximize Traps synergy. AND THEN you need to think about Ambush and possibly Blindsiding, since Crossbows/Traps is inherently a stealth build... and so, of course, you'll most likely want Interloper and Traps Expert so that you can set up your trap spread before a tin can finds you and blows you away....

OH! Crossbows also have move and shoot penalties, and no inherent scope. Better grab Strafe. I know quite well from my last playthrough (unless something's drastically changed; it's been a while) that Crossbows are hilariously inaccurate without huge amounts of PER, unless you buy Strafe and waste an enhancement slot on a scope. One of my suggestions long ago was that they be given inherent scope slots. Nope.

But hey, crossbows are silenced. That will help you out when you're plot-dumped into a room out of stealth.

 

[CHEMS]

I never used strafe with xbows. Usually i pick the enemies on by one, Deus Ex style. Also, an ambush elemental MKII shock bolt wrecks shit to groups of enemies. Be sure to use acid ones, their acid damage benefits from crits, unlike the useless 9mm acid rounds. I think the crossbow is indeed the most versatile weapon in the whole game.

 

[Mortmal]

There is no shame playing on Hard btw.

I got tism-hardened by DOM, hard feels too easy... I wish Styg would give us a custom difficulty already, the merchant nerf on DOM is just retarded

You min max , use some of the best buids recommended for dominating and then yes it feels easy.. hell yeah it better be easy. The game is a nightmare for a newcomer without all that meta knowledge, completely unplayable .
My first playthrough was not pleasurable for several reasons, my character was underleveled , i was using the oddity leveling, doing with combat xp is faster by far. Now i use a min max psychosis build and all those fancy new DLC things , so i eradicate group of living opponents with neural overload area crits , one round they are all gone. First playthrough it was a slog and reload fest.It's still painful against strong men and nagas, but doable.

 

[ciox]

Crossbows are decent, you don't even need Special Tactics or Deadly Snares to do well for the vast majority of the game.
However, to deal with Tchort you will need to inflict so much damage that no amount of cooldown abilities will help you much, you'll want to do many special bolt crits in a row and should be ready to pivot to a Pneumatic Cyclon, Seeker Goggles, etc.

Deadly Snares was also nerfed recently with Industrial Bots becoming immune to snares, so you can't get through their heavy armor with guaranteed crits anymore, lol.

 

[CHEMS]

Crossbows are decent, you don't even need Special Tactics or Deadly Snares to do well for the vast majority of the game.
However, to deal with Tchort you will need to inflict so much damage that no amount of cooldown abilities will help you much, you'll want to do many special bolt crits in a row and should be ready to pivot to a Pneumatic Cyclon, Seeker Goggles, etc.

Deadly Snares was also nerfed recently with Industrial Bots becoming immune to snares, so you can't get through their heavy armor with guaranteed crits anymore, lol.

One molotov and some corrosive acid bolts is all you need to fuck tchort up. Playing crossbow demands ambush, i can't do without it.

 

[ciox]

Crossbows are decent, you don't even need Special Tactics or Deadly Snares to do well for the vast majority of the game.
However, to deal with Tchort you will need to inflict so much damage that no amount of cooldown abilities will help you much, you'll want to do many special bolt crits in a row and should be ready to pivot to a Pneumatic Cyclon, Seeker Goggles, etc.

Deadly Snares was also nerfed recently with Industrial Bots becoming immune to snares, so you can't get through their heavy armor with guaranteed crits anymore, lol.

One molotov and some corrosive acid bolts is all you need to fuck tchort up. Playing crossbow demands ambush, i can't do without it.

I can't play with these big conditional gamechangers like Ambush or SI, but I might start someday, who knows.

My favorite gamechanger so far is just going full metal armor, even when it superficially doesn't fit the build, works more often than you'd think and isn't very conditional.

 

[Blaine]

One molotov and some corrosive acid bolts is all you need to fuck tchort up. Playing crossbow demands ambush, i can't do without it.

That right there is the sort of thing that hammers the nail into the coffin for me. You've said you enjoy Crossbows builds, but that you consider Ambush mandatory—which means you're relying on a conditional power boost and molotovs.

Hurling molotovs everywhere completely destroys the aspect of a Crossbows build that appeals to me personally: Setting up traps and shooting the things that wander into them, and alternately silently assassinating enemies from the shadows; the gap left by not spamming grenades for a change is filled by special bolts. The issue is that doing all of these things well is a massive feat suck. "You don't need that feat, though..." Then why the fuck does it exist? For my next Crossbows playthrough in which I also won't need it?

My favorite gamechanger so far is just going full metal armor, even when it superficially doesn't fit the build, works more often than you'd think and isn't very conditional.

Yes, the most genuinely versatile weapon in the game is the AR, because it fucking kills and debuffs the ever-living shit out of absolutely everything—and in Underrail, that's all the versatility you need. It does so without sucking up 8-10 feats, too. Grenades are versatile in their own right, and any tin can will be using them.

I did enjoy my one pre-Expedition tin can AR run. It has a few significant Achilles' heels, notably FUCKING KNIFE-SPAMMING LITTLE FUCKING TWATS WHO ALL KNOW CRIPPLING STRIKE.

I still remember when Styg invented "unconditional special attacks" and made them incompatible with Smart Modules specifically to nerf ARs, which only meant that ARs went from doing several thousand damage per burst to merely one or two thousand damage per burst.

 

[Parabalus]

I can't play with these big conditional gamechangers like Ambush or SI, but I might start someday, who knows.

SI isn't conditional really, you never want to be above 30%.

 

[Major_Blackhart]

Well, if anyone is looking, an icon was uploaded that I found interesting: File:Cohesive Mucus Glands icon.png - Underrail Wiki (stygiansoftware.com)

Is this related to the PC being able to get mutated? Also, has anyone gotten mutated yet?

 

[CHEMS]

Hurling molotovs everywhere completely destroys the aspect of a Crossbows build that appeals to me personally: Setting up traps and shooting the things that wander into them, and alternately silently assassinating enemies from the shadows; the gap left by not spamming grenades for a change is filled by special bolts.

Well... you can also trigger ambush by firing a fire bolt to an enemy, flares works nice too.

On a non related note - i just bought the fabled hypercerebrix blueprint out of luck from Doc Savage.

 

[ciox]

Well, if anyone is looking, an icon was uploaded that I found interesting: File:Cohesive Mucus Glands icon.png - Underrail Wiki (stygiansoftware.com)

Is this related to the PC being able to get mutated? Also, has anyone gotten mutated yet?

https://underrail.info/build/ check bottom of feats list

 

[Sykar]

I can't play with these big conditional gamechangers like Ambush or SI, but I might start someday, who knows.

SI isn't conditional really, you never want to be above 30%.

As Psychosis sure you do since it is easy to get to 30% in a round or two.

 

[Blaine]

CHEMS Here's a crossbow build I could perhaps be happy with: https://underrail.info/build/?HgMGC...AwoUBIh0vJjU4QMKFajEzwoBLG8K1wqTioaQF4rGCCt-_

I'm strongly considering dropping Snipe in favor of Sprint (lack of Sprint is partly why I pumped Agility), or Blitz, since Blitz would justify 10 Agility. Snipe is a fantastic damage hog, and would wreck shit later on especially combined with specced Blindsiding, but sacrifices must be made.

I want to avoid Throwing because we all use Throwing all the time, and not rely on Ambush. Remember, I'm aiming for Hard Classic, not Dominating. This is also why I should be able to get away with "only" 15 PER + PER food + Marksman spec for +5% additive precision, though I'm sure I'll still be seeing 75% to-hit on fully illuminated targets standing three grid squares away by midgame. Pack Rathound, Sure Step, and other convenience/QoL/situational perks had to go. 130 carry weight is a real bummer, but recycling and processing most of the loot will help to ease that.

Anyway, with Marksman, a Pneumatic Reloader, Special Tactics, and Adrenaline Shot, it should be possible to get off four special bolts in one turn—all augmented by specced Blindsiding for +25% damage, if done from stealth. Blitz would actually up that to five, with good crafted tabi and minimal armor penalty. Ideally, the afflicted enemies would then bumble into traps for easy dispatching.

I want to fucking do it all, and by God I'm going to. Most likely I'll start playing this build and then abandon it in disgust. I will say however that more tools exist now to counter the near-inability of Crossbows/Traps guys to kill heavy tin cans, which was always my #1 complaint.

 

[Parabalus]

How much crit chance do you have?

Trap Expert, Interloper &Blindsiding seem like the weakest feats.

I'd drop one of those for Pack Rathound.

 

[Ol' Willy]

You min max , use some of the best buids recommended for dominating and then yes it feels easy.. hell yeah it better be easy. The game is a nightmare for a newcomer without all that meta knowledge, completely unplayable .

On my first run on Dom I went with energy weapons char, which was ranked very low in one of Underrail forum threads, considering the effectiveness of the builds.
Second time, full-PSI - after the nerf, lol.
Third time - versatility gun-blade one, with firearm pistols and before the buffs update.
None of these builds were properly min-maxed. Meta is mandatory, true, but no one tells you to play your first run on Dom. It wasn't very hard, though, and my biggest problems came from my own stubbornness.

Although, the price nerf on Dom is absolutely disgusting. The biggest setback in my opinion.

 

[ciox]

Getting rid of Snipe sounds like crazy talk to me, too many missed opportunities where you find 2-3 guys, and can reliably kill them all in 1 turn without making any noise with Snipe and Aimed Shot.
In situations with more enemies than you can silently kill in one turn, you can use Snipe several times in the same battle if you use flashbangs and then restealth while all enemies are incapacitated.

Most fun I had with a crossbow build was something pretty close to this, the Expose Weakness is applied with a Jackknife or Shiv for just 6-7 AP, so you have plenty AP left to shoot with the crossbow. Dirty Kick is to have a quick stun option without a taser taking up space where your crossbow bolts need to be.

https://underrail.info/build/?HgMGB...AAFAxIgENNRIzL2pLwoAmGzgawrXCpHjioaQF4qy0Ct-_

 

[CHEMS]

CHEMS Here's a crossbow build I could perhaps be happy with: https://underrail.info/build/?HgMGC...AwoUBIh0vJjU4QMKFajEzwoBLG8K1wqTioaQF4rGCCt-_

I'm strongly considering dropping Snipe in favor of Sprint (lack of Sprint is partly why I pumped Agility), or Blitz, since Blitz would justify 10 Agility. Snipe is a fantastic damage hog, and would wreck shit later on especially combined with specced Blindsiding, but sacrifices must be made.

I want to avoid Throwing because we all use Throwing all the time, and not rely on Ambush. Remember, I'm aiming for Hard Classic, not Dominating. This is also why I should be able to get away with "only" 15 PER + PER food + Marksman spec for +5% additive precision, though I'm sure I'll still be seeing 75% to-hit on fully illuminated targets standing three grid squares away by midgame. Pack Rathound, Sure Step, and other convenience/QoL/situational perks had to go. 130 carry weight is a real bummer, but recycling and processing most of the loot will help to ease that.

Anyway, with Marksman, a Pneumatic Reloader, Special Tactics, and Adrenaline Shot, it should be possible to get off four special bolts in one turn—all augmented by specced Blindsiding for +25% damage, if done from stealth. Blitz would actually up that to five, with good crafted tabi and minimal armor penalty. Ideally, the afflicted enemies would then bumble into traps for easy dispatching.

I want to fucking do it all, and by God I'm going to. Most likely I'll start playing this build and then abandon it in disgust. I will say however that more tools exist now to counter the near-inability of Crossbows/Traps guys to kill heavy tin cans, which was always my #1 complaint.

I think you should give it a try with throwing knives. This last update make them a lot more interesting with their new mechanics. Fatal throw + Remote surgeon allows you to deal over 200 damage with a throwing knife. If you spec fatal throw, it's 27 FREE action points while doing so. Throwing knives are very, very versatile and can be coated in a variety of useful poisons. If you take split spare, you can shut down groups of psionics easily with black dragon knives.

I'd drop snipe, it's a dumb perk in my opinion. Will work only with regular bolts, and using regular bolts is gay. Hypertoxicity is a nice perk, i like it, but i don't think it's needed on hard. Makes early game a breeze though. Concussive shots are interesting for xbow builds, i usually take this perk. Vile weaponry could be interesting with broadhead bolts, but i never tried it out.

But seriously, get ambush. You don't need to blow a fire bomb, use a flare or torch an enemy with a fire bolt and you're good to go. Also, abuse acid bolts, they're underrated as fuck.

 

[CHEMS]

Second time, full-PSI - after the nerf, lol.

My first psi build was after the nerf too. Was just too OP for me, the nerf made it interesting to use. TC with SI and Psychosis is still VERY powerful, provided you can avoid robots, that is.

 

[CHEMS]

too many missed opportunities where you find 2-3 guys, and can reliably kill them all in 1 turn without making any noise with Snipe and Aimed Shot.

A crit MKII bolt works better. The damage spread between nearby enemies is even and you can even finish them with a throwing knife or two. Or hell, blast two more shock bolts. Snipe uses regular bolts, they're just bad, they don't pierce armor. A tincan will just brush off your snipe.

 

[ciox]

too many missed opportunities where you find 2-3 guys, and can reliably kill them all in 1 turn without making any noise with Snipe and Aimed Shot.

A crit MKII bolt works better. The damage spread between nearby enemies is even and you can even finish them with a throwing knife or two. Or hell, blast two more shock bolts. Snipe uses regular bolts, they're just bad, they don't pierce armor. A tincan will just brush off your snipe.

That's true, you could just go for a psycho crit build and play the whole game doing elemental crits, dunno if people are into that though.

 

[Mortmal]

You min max , use some of the best buids recommended for dominating and then yes it feels easy.. hell yeah it better be easy. The game is a nightmare for a newcomer without all that meta knowledge, completely unplayable .

On my first run on Dom I went with energy weapons char, which was ranked very low in one of Underrail forum threads, considering the effectiveness of the builds.
Second time, full-PSI - after the nerf, lol.
Third time - versatility gun-blade one, with firearm pistols and before the buffs update.
None of these builds were properly min-maxed. Meta is mandatory, true, but no one tells you to play your first run on Dom. It wasn't very hard, though, and my biggest problems came from my own stubbornness.

Although, the price nerf on Dom is absolutely disgusting. The biggest setback in my opinion.

Psi was nerfed ? it seems very powerful now, and some of the dlc time controlling abitilities seems just too good to not take. Who doesnt want more action points ? who doesnt want to reset cooldowns ? The game favor offense vs defense so much you need everything you can throw at them first round .

 

[lukaszek]

Sheepherder with that dominating thrower of yours, how did you manage to beat THE nagas fights and RAF13? Did you go there with torch or something?

im thinking about doing thrower(no wizardry) on hard/dominating but some robotic and crawlers enemies that im aware of make me sweat.

 

[Blaine]

I think you should give it a try with throwing knives. This last update make them a lot more interesting with their new mechanics. Fatal throw + Remote surgeon allows you to deal over 200 damage with a throwing knife. If you spec fatal throw, it's 27 FREE action points while doing so. Throwing knives are very, very versatile and can be coated in a variety of useful poisons. If you take split spare, you can shut down groups of psionics easily with black dragon knives.

That's great, although the intent of this is painfully obvious:

Reduced the base damage by about 20%, they now incur 130% of mech resistance and threshold (up from 125%), but the damage that passes the armor is increased by 75%

This means that they will now bounce off an entire category of middle-of-the-road heavy armor that they had previously been able to scratch (and thus insert poisons into). The accompanying buff is primarily a compensation for the overall nerf, though I suppose throwing knives will now act as moderate wadcutters/broadheads versus extremely lightly armored/unarmored enemies (without the feats, that is).

The big of draw of poison, to me, lies primarily its ability to deal with tin cans packed full of hit points. Altering throwing knives so that they're less able to poison tin cans renders the damned things even less attractive to me than they were previously (which was not at all), no matter how cool the new feats are. As a stealth guy, I vaguely recall that I generally dealt with psi wussies by killing them all in one turn and/or dividing and conquering with stealth, no poison needed.

Now with all of that being said, Throwing does encompass grenades, and grenades do help to make short work of tin cans full of HP. Also, I wouldn't mind a melee knife-incorporated build either; don't think I've ever taken one to completion. So I'm willing to tinker around with a Throwing build and give it a try.

im thinking about doing thrower(no wizardry) on hard/dominating but some robotic and crawlers enemies that im aware of make me sweat.

If Throwing didn't come with grenades as a package deal, I'd never even think of trying it. But since you do get EMP and HE grenades, and since powered combat knives (or other choice of weapon, but knives seem like the natural choice) can generally scratch tin cans and bots, seems viable.