Underrail: The Incline Awakens

[Ol' Willy]

but that's impossible to steal stealthly and low-mid levels stand no chance fighting for it.

I did it at levels 16-18 (don't remember correctly), albeit with lots of cheese

 

[Blaine]

Critiques are appreciated

recklessness + expertise?

That's a damn good point. It never even crossed my mind to question that aspect of their interaction. Certainly you'll get more mileage out of Expertise if you don't spec for crit chance, since it only procs on non-crits; but you will still deal substantially more damage with Expertise + Recklessness + Scrutinous than you would with only Recklessness + Scrutinous.

Is it worth spending the feat, though? Or more to the point, can crit chance be skipped altogether in favor of Expertise + two entirely unrelated feats? Thank you for pointing this out. SMGs have low crit bonus and only okay-ish crit chance anyway.

are you dead set on perception? join cool kids versatile squad with 3 per! Fancy footsteps instead of suppresive fire and you can outrun any enemy if need arises

Yes, mainly because I prefer not to trip over every single trap, crawler, and mugger on my way past all the secret passages and safes that I also can't see. Even setting aside raw game mechanics, I just like finding all of the things.

Having said all of that, though, and even considering my low opinion of Versatility, it's tempting (with a decent DEX score) to get it all on its lonesome simply to have a good knoife on hand for cheaply dispatching trash and semi-trash mobs. More than that, any spec ops commando should have a combat knoife.

i think this one only improves dmg? I expect you will be fine without it

TLDR You are mostly correct

Nah, Mad Chemist specifies "on-hit effects." I'm fairly sure it doubles the chance to entangle/freeze/etc.

Or so I would certainly hope, because if it doesn't it's absolute trash. Edit: Some search engine queries vaguely indicate that proc chance is what Mad Chemist increases (and possibly also the duration of said procs, but that's not as important as getting the proc), so I'd say it's a decent choice.

Edit 2:

Spoiler

Cryo without Mad Chemist is good vs melee as chilling always lands and duration is long enough. It also enables small Opportunist bonus with every hit. 1 turn duration of freeze is rather mediocre. If you freeze with your last hit you won't benefit from big Opportunist bonus and you won't be able to Execute should you pick that feat. Sure, it's still 1 turn of CC but unlike psionics it's chance based. 2 turns from Mad Chemist are MUCH better.
Acid guns does not benefit much from Mad Chemist. First reason: unique acid pistol is the best acid pistol. Second reason: chance and DOT damage is not too large (compared to Pyro). Your chance to entagle is not affected by Chemist. There's a reason to still have normal acid gun in DC, actually two: special DC acid is BAD to use with XAL; normal acid is almost nonexistant in DC (bring a lot of acid with you).

So, kind of a mixed bag. Proc chance is never affected. For acid and pyro, only DoT damage is affected; for cryo, the freeze duration is doubled and chilled is guaranteed. Chilled = slowing and that's guaranteed, proccing the smaller Opportunist bonus (which can be buffed in specialization).

All in all, and given the relatively high AP cost of chemical pistols, I'll probably skip it. That being said, the formula for chemical pistol proc chance seems to be [10 + (quality * .35)]% for cryo and acid, and [25 + (quality * .35)]% for pyro. So, a q160 chemical pistol would give you a 66% proc chance (81% for pyro).

 

[Blaine]

Thought about using the sniper rifle as a "bonus" weapon with Spec Ops guy, then realized the 2-3 feats needed would have to be taken much later on... at which point, why bother?

I've settled on this: https://underrail.info/build/?HgMJB...EWNycmwoVJOy9AKRnCtSjipLYC4qeqA-KopgXisYIF378

There are a few too many basic feats clustered near the end of progression, especially Hit and Run, but whatever. The idea here is to typically use Adrenaline Shots and either a 7.62mm Jaguar with a rapid reloader and muzzle brake, or a silenced 5mm Jaguar with a muzzle brake, bolstered by Expertise. This allows four bursts per turn with Spec Ops and DEX 9, although the 7.62mm Jaguar will have a truncated fourth burst. By level 25—which on Classic will arrive when level 20-21 normally would on Oddity—that +25 mech damage per bullet will really help to make a silenced Jaguar burst-spamming airsoft gun viable.

I always feel guilty skipping Oddity (I've done Oddity twice, I think), but then I often make builds that mature slowly/awkwardly anyway, so I just suffer the guilt and move on. Playing on Hard makes me feel like less of an asshole and provides a counter to the fast progress.

This also marks the first time I've taken either Sure Step or Pack Rathound. There's just not that much else to take on this goofy build.

 

[Parabalus]

Critiques are appreciated

recklessness + expertise?

That's a damn good point. It never even crossed my mind to question that aspect of their interaction. Certainly you'll get more mileage out of Expertise if you don't spec for crit chance, since it only procs on non-crits; but you will still deal substantially more damage with Expertise + Recklessness + Scrutinous than you would with only Recklessness + Scrutinous.

Is it worth spending the feat, though? Or more to the point, can crit chance be skipped altogether in favor of Expertise + two entirely unrelated feats? Thank you for pointing this out. SMGs have low crit bonus and only okay-ish crit chance anyway.

are you dead set on perception? join cool kids versatile squad with 3 per! Fancy footsteps instead of suppresive fire and you can outrun any enemy if need arises

Yes, mainly because I prefer not to trip over every single trap, crawler, and mugger on my way past all the secret passages and safes that I also can't see. Even setting aside raw game mechanics, I just like finding all of the things.

Having said all of that, though, and even considering my low opinion of Versatility, it's tempting (with a decent DEX score) to get it all on its lonesome simply to have a good knoife on hand for cheaply dispatching trash and semi-trash mobs. More than that, any spec ops commando should have a combat knoife.

i think this one only improves dmg? I expect you will be fine without it

TLDR You are mostly correct

Nah, Mad Chemist specifies "on-hit effects." I'm fairly sure it doubles the chance to entangle/freeze/etc.

Or so I would certainly hope, because if it doesn't it's absolute trash. Edit: Some search engine queries vaguely indicate that proc chance is what Mad Chemist increases (and possibly also the duration of said procs, but that's not as important as getting the proc), so I'd say it's a decent choice.

Edit 2:

Spoiler

Cryo without Mad Chemist is good vs melee as chilling always lands and duration is long enough. It also enables small Opportunist bonus with every hit. 1 turn duration of freeze is rather mediocre. If you freeze with your last hit you won't benefit from big Opportunist bonus and you won't be able to Execute should you pick that feat. Sure, it's still 1 turn of CC but unlike psionics it's chance based. 2 turns from Mad Chemist are MUCH better.
Acid guns does not benefit much from Mad Chemist. First reason: unique acid pistol is the best acid pistol. Second reason: chance and DOT damage is not too large (compared to Pyro). Your chance to entagle is not affected by Chemist. There's a reason to still have normal acid gun in DC, actually two: special DC acid is BAD to use with XAL; normal acid is almost nonexistant in DC (bring a lot of acid with you).

So, kind of a mixed bag. Proc chance is never affected. For acid and pyro, only DoT damage is affected; for cryo, the freeze duration is doubled and chilled is guaranteed. Chilled = slowing and that's guaranteed, proccing the smaller Opportunist bonus (which can be buffed in specialization).

All in all, and given the relatively high AP cost of chemical pistols, I'll probably skip it. That being said, the formula for chemical pistol proc chance seems to be [10 + (quality * .35)]% for cryo and acid, and [25 + (quality * .35)]% for pyro. So, a q160 chemical pistol would give you a 66% proc chance (81% for pyro).

The proc chances are capped at 75%. There are also expedition acids, and you can buy the DC acid if you side with pirates.

The best one is pyro, you can also use it to trigger Ambush. They're all very useful for any build which has guns as a backup.

Thought about using the sniper rifle as a "bonus" weapon with Spec Ops guy, then realized the 2-3 feats needed would have to be taken much later on... at which point, why bother?

I've settled on this: https://underrail.info/build/?HgMJB...EWNycmwoVJOy9AKRnCtSjipLYC4qeqA-KopgXisYIF378

There are a few too many basic feats clustered near the end of progression, especially Hit and Run, but whatever. The idea here is to typically use Adrenaline Shots and either a 7.62mm Jaguar with a rapid reloader and muzzle brake, or a silenced 5mm Jaguar with a muzzle brake, bolstered by Expertise. This allows four bursts per turn with Spec Ops and DEX 9, although the 7.62mm Jaguar will have a truncated fourth burst. By level 25—which on Classic will arrive when level 20-21 normally would on Oddity—that +25 mech damage per bullet will really help to make a silenced Jaguar burst-spamming airsoft gun viable.

I always feel guilty skipping Oddity (I've done Oddity twice, I think), but then I often make builds that mature slowly/awkwardly anyway, so I just suffer the guilt and move on. Playing on Hard makes me feel like less of an asshole and provides a counter to the fast progress.

This also marks the first time I've taken either Sure Step or Pack Rathound. There's just not that much else to take on this goofy build.

I'd listen to luka and try a versatility build, you dump PER to 3 and pump DEX to 18, max melee (which you never really use) instead of guns.

You don't have any PER feats right now so it's just straight up better really, not a lot to change.

 

[lukaszek]

Even setting aside raw game mechanics, I just like finding all of the things.

all/most of your prev builds had high PER right? you already know secrets

es, mainly because I prefer not to trip over every single trap, crawler, and mugger on my way past all the secret passages and safes that I also can't see.

your trap skill is enough to cover traps. I was able to spot every enemy with 3 per without paranoia that you are grabbing

Having said all of that, though, and even considering my low opinion of Versatility, it's tempting (with a decent DEX score) to get it all on its lonesome simply to have a good knoife on hand for cheaply dispatching trash and semi-trash mobs. More than that, any spec ops commando should have a combat knoife.

once you try you will find out that you can dispatch enemies fine with both ranged and melee, not just trash mobs. Choosing one that is more convenient feel soo good.

Also you never played it, you are curious, good enough reason to give it a try

 

[Parabalus]

Even setting aside raw game mechanics, I just like finding all of the things.

all/most of your prev builds had high PER right? you already know secrets

es, mainly because I prefer not to trip over every single trap, crawler, and mugger on my way past all the secret passages and safes that I also can't see.

your trap skill is enough to cover traps. I was able to spot every enemy with 3 per without paranoia that you are grabbing

Having said all of that, though, and even considering my low opinion of Versatility, it's tempting (with a decent DEX score) to get it all on its lonesome simply to have a good knoife on hand for cheaply dispatching trash and semi-trash mobs. More than that, any spec ops commando should have a combat knoife.

once you try you will find out that you can dispatch enemies fine with both ranged and melee, not just trash mobs. Choosing one that is more convenient feel soo good.

Also you never played it, you are curious, good enough reason to give it a try

You can even get all secrets with 3 PER with the new consumables. Very few are worth the effort though.

I'd go further and say Versatility is better than the PER build even if you never touch a melee weapon.

 

[ciox]

plz, give us an update that gates content differently enough to allow making skis present and relevant all the way through a playthrough, the entire range of them

all I want to do is a deprive some sucker of his junker because he had to land to go for a number 2 and I just happened to have the foresight to bring the means to hotwire it

Junktown Black Eels are a natural fit to provide players the means to start zooming around the waterways, just tie it to a quest you can get after Depot A or something

Agreed, jetskis in DC now!

 

[CHEMS]

I never finished the game with a sniper build, i rage quit before the end. Bad RNG for sniper is basically a reload. Too bad, because i like playing with it.

 

[Blaine]

I never finished the game with a sniper build, i rage quit before the end. Bad RNG for sniper is basically a reload. Too bad, because i like playing with it.

That's funny, because I was the same way—yet I finished the game with a Crossbows/Traps build (long before Expedition was released).

And did I bitch about it to no end? You'd better believe I did.

 

[CHEMS]

I'd listen to luka and try a versatility build, you dump PER to 3 and pump DEX to 18, max melee (which you never really use) instead of guns.

I use meelee on DC Worms to punch them with the power fist while they pathetically try to breach my 100% acid resistance armor, lol

 

[CHEMS]

I never finished the game with a sniper build, i rage quit before the end. Bad RNG for sniper is basically a reload. Too bad, because i like playing with it.

That's funny, because I was the same way—yet I finished the game with a Crossbows/Traps build (long before Expedition was released).

And did I bitch about it to no end? You'd better believe I did.

But i do love me a good crossbow. I finished Deus Ex no less than 100 times and i always use crossbow. But my JCDenton build doesn't work too well in underrail because of RNG. But yeah, crossbows are fun to use, especially with ambush and elemental arrows. I think i'm gonna try it again next.

 

[Sykar]

There is no shame playing on Hard btw.

 

[CHEMS]

There is no shame playing on Hard btw.

I got tism-hardened by DOM, hard feels too easy... I wish Styg would give us a custom difficulty already, the merchant nerf on DOM is just retarded

 

[jackofshadows]

the merchant nerf on DOM is just retarded

Yeah, it's relevant only at the beginning and then it just a huge annoyance, nothing more.

 

[Blaine]

But i do love me a good crossbow. I finished Deus Ex no less than 100 times and i always use crossbow. But my JCDenton build doesn't work too well in underrail because of RNG. But yeah, crossbows are fun to use, especially with ambush and elemental arrows. I think i'm gonna try it again next.

Crossbows have possibly been buffed since I played a Crossbows/Traps guy in 2015. Certainly, a few relevant feats and various acids and poisons have been added since then.

See, I didn't take Throwing at all on that ancient Crossbows build. I had crossbows, traps, stealth, and that was it. The one and only way to kill tin cans (because special poisoned bolts dealt 0 damage to tin cans, crit or no crit, helpfully not applying poison) was to spam HE mines. It was awkward, frustrating, and extraordinarily annoying.

There is no shame playing on Hard btw.

I'm not enough of a diehard min-maxer to play on Dominating anyway, even without the absurd sell prices nerf. I largely limit my min-maxing to squeezing as many skills out of the list as is possible.

I don't even like setting attributes dumped to 3. I'd rather they be 4 or 5, even if that offers little actual benefit other than slightly higher carry weight or slightly higher saving throws.

 

[Sweeper]

I wish Styg would give us a custom difficulty already

Custom difficulties are

 

[Parabalus]

Coolest part about DOM is seeing DC creatures earlier. Worst part is the merchant nerf.

The boss HP boost feels necessary tbh, with how out of whack damage to HP ratios are.

 

[CHEMS]

Coolest part about DOM is seeing DC creatures earlier. Worst part is the merchant nerf.

The boss HP boost feels necessary tbh, with how out of whack damage to HP ratios are.

Wish Styg would listen to suggestions instead of cucking my builds... custom difficulty STYG, please. More end game content because i want hard fights even when i'm level 30. Also, tweak stingball grenades recipe. I need TEN stingballs to produce just one?

 

[Parabalus]

Also, tweak stingball grenades recipe. I need TEN stingballs to produce just one?

Don't worry, he'll take your feedback into account and change it to twenty needed.

 

[ciox]

I never finished the game with a sniper build, i rage quit before the end. Bad RNG for sniper is basically a reload. Too bad, because i like playing with it.

I never finished the game with a sniper build, i rage quit before the end. Bad RNG for sniper is basically a reload. Too bad, because i like playing with it.

That's funny, because I was the same way—yet I finished the game with a Crossbows/Traps build (long before Expedition was released).

And did I bitch about it to no end? You'd better believe I did.

- METALLIC SNIPER - says hi.

https://underrail.info/build/?HggDB...4zSyYoRA5SwrXCpOKekgXioqMC4qe-BeKvvAHir70B378

 

[Blaine]

Wish Styg would listen to suggestions instead of cucking my builds...

I was extremely pleased when he nerfed Spear Throw halfway through my Expedition spearman playthrough. I can't remember if that was before or after I'd encountered locust nests on my non-stealth, melee-focused character.

That was the first time I've encountered a much-complained-about feature in Underrail and realized that, yes, the complaints were 100% accurate. Quite honestly, locust nests are a major factor in my choice of a stealth character this time around.

 

[CHEMS]

locust nests

They're cancer. Not hard, not challenging, just plain annoying.

 

[Parabalus]

locust nests

They're cancer. Not hard, not challenging, just plain annoying.

If you see a locust best to skip that area, there is only garbage behind all of them.

 

[Blaine]

I've been tinkering around with a Crossbows/Traps build in the character builder, and I'm extremely unimpressed. I'm getting mad all over again.

The vaunted strength of Crossbows is versatility, but this requires filling up some of your utility slots, accompanied by a near-mandatory feat-suck—Marksman at a minimum, and almost certainly Special Tactics as well. Grenades, on the other hand, are equally versatile, but require far less Throwing skill to be effective, are AoE, and really only call for Grenadier, which isn't terribly hard to skip if you only plan to use them as openers.

Crossbows in general is a massive feat-sucking black hole of a skill, especially if you want to rely on crits, since Bowyer and Critical Power then become totally mandatory (and essentially limit you to Zephyr crossbow frames). I filled up my entire level 30 quota of feats in no time, and there were still feats I felt I absolutely needed, which is highly unusual. Maximizing the utility aspect of Crossbows requires Hypertoxicity, Elemental Bolts, Marksman, Special Tactics, and Quick Pockets; maximizing damage requires Recklessness, Scrutinous, Critical Power, Sharpshooter, and Bowyer. In either case, you're most likely going to want Snipe (and thus Aimed Shot) as well.

Then you have to load up on Opportunist and possibly Deadly Snares to maximize Traps synergy. AND THEN you need to think about Ambush and possibly Blindsiding, since Crossbows/Traps is inherently a stealth build... and so, of course, you'll most likely want Interloper and Traps Expert so that you can set up your trap spread before a tin can finds you and blows you away....

OH! Crossbows also have move and shoot penalties, and no inherent scope. Better grab Strafe. I know quite well from my last playthrough (unless something's drastically changed; it's been a while) that Crossbows are hilariously inaccurate without huge amounts of PER, unless you buy Strafe and waste an enhancement slot on a scope. One of my suggestions long ago was that they be given inherent scope slots. Nope.

But hey, crossbows are silenced. That will help you out when you're plot-dumped into a room out of stealth.

 

[CHEMS]

I never used strafe with xbows. Usually i pick the enemies on by one, Deus Ex style. Also, an ambush elemental MKII shock bolt wrecks shit to groups of enemies. Be sure to use acid ones, their acid damage benefits from crits, unlike the useless 9mm acid rounds. I think the crossbow is indeed the most versatile weapon in the whole game.