Underrail: The Incline Awakens

[Parabalus]

If the Drag 'n' Drop's renewable pickpocketing farm is enough to encourage even shameless min-maxers to take Pickpocketing, then I can only see it as a good thing.

Pickpocket was always an underrated skill even before DnD. Easy money/ammo/drugs early in the game when money is still an issue, unique oddities, alternative to hacking/lockpick a lot of the times with a much lower investment cost, there's also at least one quest that cannot be completed without pickpocket period. It's overall more valueable than lockpick if you ask me.

But you need lockpicking for vents if you dumped STR, that's a big draw.

Only 50 effective for all of them. Vents are cool and I can spend that much to use them, but it's not necessary either.

You don't really need much more pickpocketing though.

For Oldfield I think <40 is enough.

 

[Tygrende]

If the Drag 'n' Drop's renewable pickpocketing farm is enough to encourage even shameless min-maxers to take Pickpocketing, then I can only see it as a good thing.

Pickpocket was always an underrated skill even before DnD. Easy money/ammo/drugs early in the game when money is still an issue, unique oddities, alternative to hacking/lockpick a lot of the times with a much lower investment cost, there's also at least one quest that cannot be completed without pickpocket period. It's overall more valueable than lockpick if you ask me.

But you need lockpicking for vents if you dumped STR, that's a big draw.

Only 50 effective for all of them. Vents are cool and I can spend that much to use them, but it's not necessary either.

You don't really need much more pickpocketing though.

For Oldfield I think <40 is enough.

Yes, you don't need much pickpocket for it to do it's job, which is the another good thing about it. Maybe I should have said that I consider it more valueable than high investment in lockpick for the purpose of opening everything there is to open.

 

[Blaine]

Also, Blaine, what do you think of fully-specced Disassemble? Free repair and free upgrades, easy money!

By the time you can acquire Disassemble + 5 spec points, you will (if you're a Grand High Shekelmeister and an Infernus of the Hephaestean Order) have more repair kits than you'll ever be able to sell.

That being said, you would be able to reconfigure your weapon mods on the fly (provided you don't need the crafting benches to do so), which is utterly miraculous. It would also be safe to use a couple of inferior components in your tin can or energy shield, knowing that they can always be extracted and upgraded later.

In short, it's absolutely fantastic—but not because of free repairs or money. The crafting bench (and Under Pie, etc.) factor kind of puts a damper on in-field reconfigurations.

A big problem, though, is that this game has suffered from feat bloat. Sure, we get three more feats than when the level cap was 25, but one of those three feats is guaranteed to be +2 to a base attribute. Styg keeps adding more feats for throwing knives, more feats for psi, more feats for pistols, feat-sucks for anything he's nerfing, highly specialized feats, highly generalized feats, convenience veteran feats... the list fucking goes on.

So whereas, ironically, I felt I could have a "complete set" of feats that fit a theme by level 25, post-Expedition I typically feel like I'm leaving a ton of shit I really wanted behind. And I feel that my base attributes are stretched thinner than ever, as well.

 

[ciox]

Did some more research after brute forcing levelling with cheat engine.

Acid flasks don't work with Opportunist.
Acid flasks don't work with Pinning.
Acid flasks don't work with Remote Surgeon.
Acid flasks don't work with Split Spare.
Acid flasks don't work with Ripper.
Acid flasks don't get AP from Fatal Throw, even with specialization.
Acid flasks do crit with Fatal Throw, and the specialization works so you can guaranteed crit on 35% health enemies.
I hope they lean on the side of making more of this stuff work, but probably you'll get the opposite and lose even the Fatal Throw crit, gotta have that fuckin balance man.

 

[Blaine]

In honor of Pickpocketing joining the ranks of fully useful (and more importantly, abuse-able) skills, I present to you SKILL MAN!

https://underrail.info/build/?HgMHC...AATwEmHSICGzPCgGpLOC9AwoXCtcKkGeKhpAXip74K378

Yeah yeah, I know, I could easily pump PER another point or two, etc. DROP HYPERTOXICITY, YOU DON'T NEED IT! Listen, the important thing here is that I'm at least mildly happy with the Crossbows interactions going on, and the feat progression actually isn't trash, except for Hit and Run (so possibly Ninja Looter or whatever, you have 30 levels to decide).

 

[lukaszek]

Did some more research after brute forcing levelling with cheat engine.

can you cheat feats in without leveling? I always believed that all thievery feats should have been in single package

 

[ciox]

Did some more research after brute forcing levelling with cheat engine.

can you cheat feats in without leveling? I always believed that all thievery feats should have been in single package

Didn't seem possible, with the script I found anyway.

 

[CHEMS]

Few hours in the sniper/crossbow build and i'm already raging. I'm missing SO MANY shots at 90% it's ridiculous

 

[ciox]

Few hours in the sniper/crossbow build and i'm already raging. I'm missing SO MANY shots at 90% it's ridiculous

There's been rumblings about adding something for snipers only to help them reach 100% accuracy, but the devs aren't having it.

There is only one solution for this in the game, it's wearing metal armor so you don't care if you miss, and it is glorious.

 

[Blaine]

Few hours in the sniper/crossbow build and i'm already raging. I'm missing SO MANY shots at 90% it's ridiculous

Welcome to the club, buddy. I couldn't do it with sniper rifles, but I managed to bumble and stumble over the finish line with crossbows. I hadn't realized back then that you need 13+ (15+ post-Expedition) in your primary stat just to scrape by. Shit, that was pre-v1.0.

Setting aside relevant cognitive biases such as clustering illusion, frequency illusion, confirmation bias, and gambler's fallacy, the reality is that misses impact big-hit alpha strike builds far more than, say, burst or dagger spam builds. Psi can't even miss, which is part of why it's powerful.

When you do hit those clusters of negative space on the RNG distribution graph, you are fucked—and you can be fucked at 95% precision. It's not too bad to miss big hits now and then during protracted engagements (which I suppose is why Styg refuses to go for 100%), but getting dumped into a box or tableau where it's all over in a few moments and you just get raped if you can't take down at least a couple of enemies right away guarantees a reload.

What truly annoys me is that Dodge and Evasion will forever remain bad (and very expensive) primary investments for the player, but enemies can load up on them, no problem. They're the epitome of skills that benefit enemy NPCs far more than the player.

https://underrail.info/build/?HgMGB...ABKASYdIgIbM8KAaks4L0DChcK1wqQZ4qGkBeKnvgrfvw

The literal and actual reason I choose never to play Dominating (other than shekels) is so that I don't have to pump the primary weapon base attribute up to 18-20 and choose a bizarre, contorted arrangement of glass-cannon shit. I just don't like to do it. It sucks the interest out of creation and progression for me.

Some people find it interesting, but I like my dude's skills, feats, and attributes to at least SOMEWHAT fit a theme with an identity rather than a purely utilitarian framework for a Dominating-winning DPS-dispensing machine.

 

[jackofshadows]

Few hours in the sniper/crossbow build and i'm already raging. I'm missing SO MANY shots at 90% it's ridiculous

It might be annoying but from my experience aside from early game and some of a toughest late game fights like native bosses it's not that big of a deal and manageable. Not an 'iron man' material I guess but far from being load-fest either.

 

[Tygrende]

The literal and actual reason I choose never to play Dominating (other than shekels) is so that I don't have to pump the primary weapon base attribute up to 18-20

You don't do that on DOM on most builds and when you do it's for reasons other than pumping just the offensive skill alone, like using Balor's hammer or getting the max AP reduction from DEX. The effect stats have on your chance to hit are vastly overrated.

 

[Blaine]

I have dodge and evasion

is good

There are two major differences between Dodge/Evasion and tin cans:

1. Dodge/Evasion require a humongous skill point investment, whereas tin cans require none at all (other than crafting skills, which are good for many other applications)
2. Tin cans don't stop working when you're incapacitated

okay so don't get incapacitated

...is what I suppose you might (emphasis on "might") say next. To that I say

don't get hit at all lmao

 

[Decado]

So I'm back on this after a little bit of a break.

I'm running a Tin Can build (decent assault rifle, etc). I just found the Foundry. I'm wondering, is there an agreed-upon consensus as to what the best metal armor is? Is TiChrome armor better than Tungsten? I know Tungsten is the heaviest, but I have 9 str.

Also, is armor sloping worth it?

 

[Blackmill]

So I'm back on this after a little bit of a break.

I'm running a Tin Can build (decent assault rifle, etc). I just found the Foundry. I'm wondering, is there an agreed-upon consensus as to what the best metal armor is? Is TiChrome armor better than Tungsten? I know Tungsten is the heaviest, but I have 9 str.

Also, is armor sloping worth it?

Either Tungsten or

Spoiler

supersteel

Tungsten will give you more DT and make you pretty much immune to weak attacks. But the second armor makes you much stronger against energy based attacks. However, it's much easier to get good Tungsten armor. I don't think armor sloping is worth it for an AR build. Eventually, you just need a few burst fire rounds to hit, so you can actually use it at pretty far range with high skill. You don't need to worry too much about mobility unless you plan to use shotguns too.

 

[Blackmill]

I haven't played in a while, can any one confirm if Infused Rathound Leather armor affects throwing knives? I vaguely remember it does not.

 

[toro]

I haven't played in a while, can any one confirm if Infused Rathound Leather armor affects throwing knives? I vaguely remember it does not.

https://stygiansoftware.com/wiki/index.php?title=Leather_Armor

Infused Rathound Leather Armor - Increases critical chance

I'm not sure but with high leather quality you can get something like 15-20% critical chance.

 

[lukaszek]

I haven't played in a while, can any one confirm if Infused Rathound Leather armor affects throwing knives? I vaguely remember it does not.

https://stygiansoftware.com/wiki/index.php?title=Leather_Armor

Infused Rathound Leather Armor - Increases critical chance

I'm not sure but with high leather quality you can get something like 15-20% critical chance.

infused rathound doesnt affect combat utilities. Also there was nerf long time ago and crit chance got lowered even with high quality, 10% is ultra top end

 

[Black Angel]

There are two major differences between Dodge/Evasion and tin cans:

1. Dodge/Evasion require a humongous skill point investment, whereas tin cans require none at all (other than crafting skills, which are good for many other applications)
2. Tin cans don't stop working when you're incapacitated

I think it's time for Styg to do a wholesale revamp of character's defensive system, in addition to his future plan of reworking energy shields, such as:

1. Merging Dodge and Evasion, though in turn tone down the AoE damage reduction a bit so investing in it is still encourage, albeit not as humongous as before
2. Introduce an Armor skill for wearing medium and heavy armors, which reduces armor penalty as the skill increases, like how Colony Ship RPG did it. I'd imagine this requires a whole lot more work because I think with the introduction of such skill, armor penalty should also applies to AP

This won't solve the problem of Dodge/Evasion not working while being incapacitated, though, but I guess that's the point of the skill which purpose is 'not getting hit in the first place'.

 

[Ol' Willy]

I never looked at Dodge/Evasion as sole means of defense. Additional protection, allowing you to reduce incoming damage? That's more like it

 

[toro]

I never looked at Dodge/Evasion as sole means of defense. Additional protection, allowing you to reduce incoming damage? That's more like it

More damage is the additional protection

 

[Sykar]

I never looked at Dodge/Evasion as sole means of defense. Additional protection, allowing you to reduce incoming damage? That's more like it

But not at the insane cost and the insane RNG.

 

[Sheepherder]

infused rathound doesnt affect combat utilities. Also there was nerf long time ago and crit chance got lowered even with high quality, 10% is ultra top end

Not really. 10% can be achieved from a ~130quality SS fiber plus 44quality rathound leather. With 160quality SS you can go to 12%. Now that there's a merchant who sells higher quality rathound leather (supposedly up to 90s, but I'm not sure), you can probably go up to 15%.

 

[Sweeper]

There are two major differences between Dodge/Evasion and tin cans:

1. Dodge/Evasion require a humongous skill point investment, whereas tin cans require none at all (other than crafting skills, which are good for many other applications)
2. Tin cans don't stop working when you're incapacitated

...is what I suppose you might (emphasis on "might") say next. To that I say

But what about tin can AND dodge/evasion?

 

[Decado]

There are two major differences between Dodge/Evasion and tin cans:

1. Dodge/Evasion require a humongous skill point investment, whereas tin cans require none at all (other than crafting skills, which are good for many other applications)
2. Tin cans don't stop working when you're incapacitated

...is what I suppose you might (emphasis on "might") say next. To that I say

But what about tin can AND dodge/evasion?

I did this on my first build, because I didn't understand the skill system at first. The shame of it lies in this thread, for all to see, forever.