Underrail: The Incline Awakens

[CHEMS]

44 explosive rounds are so fucking stupid. So is the 12.7 contaminated. I demand they swap the special rounds and give me a 12.7 EXPLOSIVE.

 

[ciox]

Actual psi nerfs are fine, like haste having fatigue.
It's the micromanagement obnoxiousness with reserves and slots that sucks.

Neither of them is stopping the minmaxers much anyway, there was another nerf in this very update since they figured out a way to have TWO hastes active at once. Shit, did they even notice that forcefields break now and that psi abilities cost more if you use many schools? Probably not.

 

[Tigranes]

The psi nerf wasn't even a nerf, yeah. It's basically "fill out these pointless forms and you can still rob the bank". It's not the worst thing in the world, but it is just ineffective at its job.

 

[Blaine]

Yet another pitfall of balancing the game around veterans and min-maxers with hundreds/thousands of hours in the game.

The repair kit nerf (which went way too far; he doubled the crafting cost, clearly a lot of thought went into that) was a direct result of my gloating about not only the mountains of cash I was making with them, but also the weight savings. Not only was the recipe nerfed, but the weight of kits was doubled/quadrupled.

Which is fine, that's what feedback is for, but his nerfs always go way too far. The repair kit nerf barely affects me, since I always ended the game with actual warehouses stacked to the ceiling with nothing but repair kits. I'm sure I still will.

 

[Sykar]

So is it time to revert the PSI nerfs?

Yes.

When it comes to super-overpowered strategies, Temporal Manipulation™ is the culprit, and not the classic psi skills; the nerf in no way limits min-maxers' ability to abuse TM™. Styg quite clearly deployed the nerf in order to make it more difficult for pure psi wizards to simply sprout an an entire fourth psi discipline—but as we've seen, tons of builds can benefit immensely from TM™.

The problem with TM was always that most abilities do not really scale at all with skill level. Therefore apart from the 70 points for Stasis there is no real investment into the school and it is still tremendously powerful. PTC is so powerful for almost pure combat builds because you give up very little for huge benefits. The debuff rarely matters, by the time PTC runs out the combat is almost over. For pure PSI the cost is much higher since you need those PSI points for your own abilities/damage. I actually refuse to call builds with 3 will and 70 TM hybrids. True hybrids are good at more than 2 things, not I do something else really well and sprinkle a little OP shit on top of it.

The psi nerf wasn't even a nerf, yeah. It's basically "fill out these pointless forms and you can still rob the bank". It's not the worst thing in the world, but it is just ineffective at its job.

I would not even mind Innvervate if there were more option to gain more slots. I am fine with Int having such a big impact on PSI as well I actually like my 12 Int/13 Will full PSI shroom weed smokers but it just is not all that much fun and for min/maxin all it does is many shroom weed smokers going to drop a school, get dex 6 and go full ham with throwing which is tremendously powerful in its own right.

 

[Black Angel]

but I'm convinced dodge/evasion builds should also have a decent HP buffer in case you get hit with bad RNG.

Two words: graze mechanics

 

[thesheeep]

I think it is time again for all of us to sit down and nod in smiling agreement of the absurdity that is grenade precision.

Whenever I start a new game, it just brings a smile to my face how my mentally and bodily abled character basically throws grenades like this:


You can't even be mad at it. It's just too funny.

 

[Sykar]

TM should have been nerfed like this:
PTC: Base 5 AP and 15 MP, then llet it scale up to 200 TM for 15 AP and 30 MP. Duration also starts at 1 turn and improves to 2 turns at 150 TM. 3 with feat and we can remove or weaken that debuff.
Stasis: Only one turn and only usable on enemies. At 100 TM you can use it on yourself. At 200 TM you get the 2nd turn duration.
LTI: Starts at a 10 or even 15 turn CD and increased TM skill reduces the CD until its current CD of 4 turns without FO.
Unnerf Continuum Ripple. It is annoying that it outside of like one build has no real use.

I am just spitballing numbers here to give a general idea.

 

[Parabalus]

TM should have been nerfed like this:
PTC: Base 5 AP and 15 MP, scale up to 200 TM for 15 AP and 30 MP. Duration also starts at 1 turn and improves to 2 turns at 150 TM. 3 with feat and we can remove or weaken that debuff.
Stasis: Only one turn and only usable on enemies. At 100 TM you can use it on yourself. At 200 TM you get the 2nd turn duration.
LTI: Starts at a 10 or even 15 turn CD and increased TM skill reduces the CD until its current maximum.
Unnerf Continuum Ripple. It is annoying that it outside of like one build has no real use.

Issue is the school was intended to be something useful for all chars, not wizard only. Might as well just remove it if you're going this far.

 

[Sykar]

As I said I was just spitballing the numbers and it is still useful but now you wont get max benefits for almost no investment. SOMETHING has to be sacrificed it is assanine to me that a 3 will no talent hack crap Psion is almost as powerful as some Merlin type Space/Time continuum master mushroom smoker. Utterly absurd.

 

[Sweeper]

I cucked out and started a new playthrough on easy to get the Mutated Happily Ever After achievement...
God I feel so dirty... unclean. UNCLEAN! I'LL NEVER BE CLEAN AGAIN!
DON'T FUCKING LOOK AT ME!

Seriously though, mutant abilities suck fucking dicks. The claws don't get lower AP from Dex, they don't get more damage from Str, you can't use any combat utilities or equipment and to round it all off you lose PSI when you mutate.
I get it's not supposed to be a viable way to play the game on dominating, but I still have to ask, what the fuck Styg?

 

[Fenix]

Do you still keep stealth as mutah? Your melee skill still affect your damage?

 

[Sykar]

Also TM is a bit disappointing really needed a Za Warudo ability!

 

[CHEMS]

Stasis: Only one turn and only usable on enemies. At 100 TM you can use it on yourself. At 200 TM you get the 2nd turn duration.

I have a better idea about stasis. Instead of doing that, make de enemie AI stop attacking and wasting grenades and special attacks on a char on stasis. Just make someone on stasis "un attackable". It's easy to cheese the AI entering stasis and forcing them to waste adrenaline, special bolts and grenades.

 

[Spark Mandriller]

Do you still keep stealth as mutah? Your melee skill still affect your damage?

Yes and yes. You also seem to get some free melee skill just for mutating. Stealth is hard though, since mutating lowers your agility to 3 and gives you 50% armour penalty. And you can't wear any stealth boosting equipment either.
Also strength is still capped at 20, if anyone was wondering. Thought I might be able to beat it by mutating and then taking increased strength feat, but nope. Now my strength is 22 (20). Too bad.

 

[Parabalus]

Stasis: Only one turn and only usable on enemies. At 100 TM you can use it on yourself. At 200 TM you get the 2nd turn duration.

I have a better idea about stasis. Instead of doing that, make de enemie AI stop attacking and wasting grenades and special attacks on a char on stasis. Just make someone on stasis "un attackable". It's easy to cheese the AI entering stasis and forcing them to waste adrenaline, special bolts and grenades.

The current version of stasis is just too good by itself - there's almost never a reason not to stasis yourself, since it extends every single buff by a turn.

 

[Sykar]

Stasis: Only one turn and only usable on enemies. At 100 TM you can use it on yourself. At 200 TM you get the 2nd turn duration.

I have a better idea about stasis. Instead of doing that, make de enemie AI stop attacking and wasting grenades and special attacks on a char on stasis. Just make someone on stasis "un attackable". It's easy to cheese the AI entering stasis and forcing them to waste adrenaline, special bolts and grenades.

Better idea reduce the PCs initiative by 50%.

 

[Decado]

Do the new pistol changes make a straight firearm pistol build viable?

I was thinking of a pistoleer build, dodge/evasion, with throwing, electronics, lockpicking, tailoring, chemistry, mechanics.

Or is pistol only viable if using Psi?

 

[Parabalus]

Do the new pistol changes make a straight firearm pistol build viable?

I was thinking of a pistoleer build, dodge/evasion, with throwing, electronics, lockpicking, tailoring, chemistry, mechanics.

Or is pistol only viable if using Psi?

You have access to chemical and energy pistols, along with snipers. If you use them, even at no feat investment, against hard targets for pistols you won't have any trouble.

Not that you can't do it without those, will just take a bit of tryharding.

 

[Fenix]

Stealth is hard though, since mutating lowers your agility to 3 and gives you 50% armour penalty. And you can't wear any stealth boosting equipment either.

Cough...

 

[CHEMS]

Do the new pistol changes make a straight firearm pistol build viable?

I was thinking of a pistoleer build, dodge/evasion, with throwing, electronics, lockpicking, tailoring, chemistry, mechanics.

Or is pistol only viable if using Psi?

Pistolero was OP even before this update. Gun Fu sucks, but bullet time is just too good.

 

[CHEMS]

Not that you can't do it without those, will just take a bit of tryharding.

I disagree. I made a pistolero build that could do ridiculous amount of damage with smart silenced neoluger, on dominating.

 

[Decado]

Do the new pistol changes make a straight firearm pistol build viable?

I was thinking of a pistoleer build, dodge/evasion, with throwing, electronics, lockpicking, tailoring, chemistry, mechanics.

Or is pistol only viable if using Psi?

You have access to chemical and energy pistols, along with snipers. If you use them, even at no feat investment, against hard targets for pistols you won't have any trouble.

Not that you can't do it without those, will just take a bit of tryharding.

Cool. The other thing I noticed with just a brief amount of playing last night is that I can still only get one shot per round with the .44 hammerer. I have Aimed Shot, Gunslinger, Nimble.

Strength: 5
Dex: 8
Agi: 5
Con: 5
Perception: 7
Will: 5
Int: 5

Am I fucked with these stats? I always forget you can decrease attributes below 5 when starting a character.

 

[jungl]

Crits work great with ballistic pistols post patch. Bullet time reduces AP cost by a lot, so you can get 4AP shots with Versatility. They also work with PER as well, as Sharpshooter now applies all the time, even after mowing. So you get to choose between PER for more damage per shot, but fewer (not by much) shots per turn, or DEX+Versatility+Fatal Throw for more shots per turn.
And explosive bullets don't crit

Here's what a PER version looks like, video by kaylee from discord:


And here's what a DEX version would look like endgame:

This shit makes baldurs gate 2 sorcerer and kensai look balanced.

 

[Ghulgothas]

Do the new pistol changes make a straight firearm pistol build viable?

I was thinking of a pistoleer build, dodge/evasion, with throwing, electronics, lockpicking, tailoring, chemistry, mechanics.

Or is pistol only viable if using Psi?

You have access to chemical and energy pistols, along with snipers. If you use them, even at no feat investment, against hard targets for pistols you won't have any trouble.

Not that you can't do it without those, will just take a bit of tryharding.

Cool. The other thing I noticed with just a brief amount of playing last night is that I can still only get one shot per round with the .44 hammerer. I have Aimed Shot, Gunslinger, Nimble.

Strength: 5
Dex: 8
Agi: 5
Con: 5
Perception: 7
Will: 5
Int: 5

Am I fucked with these stats? I always forget you can decrease attributes below 5 when starting a character.

Unless you're speccing a wizard, dump Will to 3. Even if you're not, you can still get decent mileage out of a single Psi school with only 3 Will. I'd honestly recommend the same for strength so you can refund the deficit into either Dex, Agi or Int. You can make up the difference with Pack Rathound and a higher Int will make it easier to craft a lasting energy shield. UnderRail is a game that rewards specialization.