Underrail: The Incline Awakens

[Ol' Willy]

Oddity kinda broke the game for me. I like it. It makes leveling more interesting, it doesn't allow you to shamefully overlevel and it feels like an actual reward. But it's makes the game way longer if you want those levels, and my OCD about levelling as much as I can is too strong to not to do that.

But I don't think I would play classic ever again. So oddity it is, but that means that I had to come up with some really cool build that will stay interesting till the end and not becomes good only after lvl 20.

Before my HD crashed I was playing tank on Classic and no way I'm gonna play tank on oddity.

 

[ciox]

Throwing gloves are not exclusive gear like JKK-only right?

 

[CHEMS]

Throwing gloves are not exclusive gear like JKK-only right?

I found them on Blaine's stock

 

[Decado]

So maybe I'm not seeing it, but what actual good is stealth inside of combat, anyway? Is there a bonus from attacking out of stealth? Or is it only a good idea to stealth in combat with melee?

 

[Ol' Willy]

So maybe I'm not seeing it, but what actual good is stealth inside of combat, anyway? Is there a bonus from attacking out of stealth? Or is it only a good idea to stealth in combat with melee?

Stealth is good to avoid combat altogether or start it when you actually want it, effectively giving you the initiative and the first strike

Is there a bonus from attacking out of stealth?

There's a feat for that

 

[CHEMS]

So maybe I'm not seeing it, but what actual good is stealth inside of combat, anyway? Is there a bonus from attacking out of stealth? Or is it only a good idea to stealth in combat with melee?

If you have decent stealth you can re-stealth out of combat with vanishing powder bombs. I like to do it with the sniper rifle: take one out with aimed shot + shooting spree = use the refunded AP to use the vanishing powder bomb. Just remember that those bombs wont work if you have few action points.

 

[Ghulgothas]

Is there a bonus from attacking out of stealth?

There's a feat for that

These ones to be precise:

This, plus a Healthy Aimed Shot feat bolstered with Crit-Enhancement means you can delete two enemies before a real fight begins. Proper stealth acumen also makes good use of flashbangs and vanishing powder as CHEMS said. If all enemies in combat are incapacitated, then you can stealth out of combat and re-engage at your leisure.

This is how you properly re-engage. Again, full stealth builds are all about ending fights before they truly begin.

 

[ciox]

Seems unintuitive, but by itself, stealth just gives you a slightly better chance to hit, and enables a few abilities.
The feat Blindsiding gives a 15% damage bonus with a +1% specialization which seems kinda weak and people don't go for it much.

 

[Ol' Willy]

If you play no-stealth the combat starts as soon as people see you. That is.

With stealth, you can safely walk around, place traps, shank loners, choose the proper position and only then start combat.

If you are patient enough you can shank entire screens without getting shot at.

If anything, stealth is overpowered as fuck in Underrail

 

[Decado]

This is all good information, thanks dudes.

 

[Cyberarmy]

Stealth is OP and you can boost it easly with gear, so you don't even need to invest in it heavly.

 

[Black Angel]

Underrail's stealth mechanics is probably one of the best well done stealth in RPGs, however OP it maybe. Since Underrail is my first cRPG ever, I can't help but be disappointed when playing older cRPGs like Fallout and Arcanum. Sneaking/Prowling felt like a utility skill, instead of something that can be invested into as a playstyle.

 

[jackofshadows]

Underrail's stealth mechanics is probably one of the best well done stealth in RPGs, however OP it maybe. Since Underrail is my first cRPG ever, I can't help but be disappointed when playing older cRPGs like Fallout and Arcanum. Sneaking/Prowling felt like a utility skill, instead of something that can be invested into as a playstyle.

That's because you don't know shieet. Arcanum's stealth rogue build is my favorite one, although it's viable in TB mode only and I like RT more lately in it. I could tell more if you want. As for Fallout - stealth is also a viable combat skill there, for some reason bunch of players completely unaware of that fact. It's even OP I'd say. You just use it during combat and the enemies are starting to 'lose' you, trying to reduce distance instead of shooting etc.

Unfortunately, it's not working on global map - so no matter how high your stealth skill is, say you are spawning in the middle of mutant packs and the first minigun crit might delete you anyway (ATOM team actually fixed that in their... 'inspired by' game). But in Arcanum it is working and when you stumble at enemies on global map if you're in stealth and your skill is high enough the battle won't start and you can simply press world map again and move on if you desire so.

 

[Ol' Willy]

Underrail's stealth mechanics is probably one of the best well done stealth in RPGs, however OP it maybe. Since Underrail is my first cRPG ever, I can't help but be disappointed when playing older cRPGs like Fallout and Arcanum. Sneaking/Prowling felt like a utility skill, instead of something that can be invested into as a playstyle.

Sneaking in Fallout 1 and 2 is OP even more than in Underrail:

- Fallout doesn't have Armor Penalty mechanics making it possible to sneak in PA
- Fallout doesn't have sound propagation
- Fallout doesn't have dynamic spotting: as soon as you in NPC's detection radius the game rolls against your Sneak skill. Sneaking alone reduces NPC's detection radius by four times
- Fallout has free instant restealth and endcombat if you out of detection range of hostile NPCs
- Fallout actually has "facing" mechanics, where standing behind NPC greatly reduces detection radius
- Fallout has possible cheese with pumping NPC with PER lowering alcohol (fixed in Sonora, lol)

Essentially, it allows you to kill NPC then immediately restealth and endcombat if you are out of 1/4 of detection range of any other hostile NPCs. Very useful in deserts (you will spawn at great distance from enemies if you have high PER). Also, it allows for shanking stragglers: enter stealth, start combat, kill NPC in one turn, then restealth and endcombat. Stealth sniper crit build is very potent in Fallout 2, allowing you to clear entire screens with getting no more than one attack in return.

Unfortunately, it's not working on global map - so no matter how high your stealth skill is, say you are spawning in the middle of mutant packs and the first minigun crit might delete you anyway

Invest in PER and it will never happen

 

[CHEMS]

- Fallout has possible cheese with pumping NPC with PER lowering alcohol (fixed in Sonora, lol)

Is Sonora ready? I'm hyped for this one. The best Fallout Mods are russian, so i'm eagerly waiting the translation. Too bad i'll never ever play the Global Mod because there's no translation.

 

[Ol' Willy]

Is Sonora ready?

Unlikely

 

[Funkified Chicken]

This game is absolutely brilliant. What similar titles would you recommend?

 

[jackofshadows]

Invest in PER and it will never happen

I was usually running with ~8 per so I'm sure that's not working in Fallout 1, which I was talking about. Tbh not sure if possible to have high enough initiative to get the first turn when ambushed. Anyway, it's a small issue.

And yes, forgot to mention ability to re-stealth>end combat which is great, obviously. Generally, playing with very high stealth/lockpicking feels like cheating in classic Fallout games and ultimately boring, unlike in Underrail thanks to its fantastic exploration richness.

 

[CHEMS]

Invest in PER and it will never happen

I was usually running with ~8 per so I'm sure that's not working in Fallout 1, which I was talking about. Tbh not sure if possible to have high enough initiative to get the first turn when ambushed. Anyway, it's a small issue.

And yes, forgot to mention ability to re-stealth>end combat which is great, obviously. Generally, playing with very high stealth/lockpicking feels like cheating in classic Fallout games and yet, ultimately boring, unlike in Underrail thanks to its fantastic exploration richness.

I like how stats actually matter in underrail. In Fallout it's TOO EASY to cheat. First, you can pump yourself full of drugs to meet SPECIAL requirements for perks, since the game can't tell the difference, while in Underrail you have the "effective system". Besides, if you have 10 AGI on Fallout you're god. It affects guns, meelee, everything.

Also, in Fallout by the time you're level 20-ish, you simply shrug off bullets, while in Underrail unless you're absolute tincan, you get rekt by any shithead who can hit you with a aimed shot.

 

[jackofshadows]

I like how stats actually matter in underrail. In Fallout it's TOO EASY to cheat. First, you can pump yourself full of drugs to meet SPECIAL requirements for perks, since the game can't tell the difference, while in Underrail you have the "effective system". Besides, if you have 10 AGI on Fallout you're god. It affects guns, meelee, everything.

Well, agility>all is obvious to any experienced player but don't forget that it's correct combat wise only and both classic Fallout games has been designed with solid non-combat paths in mind (unlike Underrail where combat is absolutely unavoidable).

Ironically, according to creators (judging by pre-made chars and manuals) agility was the best stat for stealthy characters, and for combat ones it was endurance. Which brings us to

Also, in Fallout by the time you're level 20-ish, you simply shrug off bullets, while in Underrail unless you're absolute tincan, you get rekt by any shithead who can hit you with a aimed shot.

With Fallout's lop-sided system where you can pump DT/DR all you want but crits are simply ignoring it entirely pumping endurance makes sense. So they weren't that wrong it's just offence is the best defence by far when the longer combat goes, the more chance to get crit strike and die no matter what.

Of course, Underrail's system is much more thought-out where you can actually build tincan which can reliably survive massive amounts of damage. Then again, the whole game is focused on combat and exploration so its mechanics reflect that perfectly.

This game is absolutely brilliant. What similar titles would you recommend?

The Age of Decadence, Dungeon Rats, ATOM RPG, Fallout 1/2 (just in case).

 

[Blaine]

You'll be having a fuckton of problems due to: ridiculously low single-shot damage; ammo usage in DC; low range. Unlike AR builds, you can't really use snipers with minimal perk investment.

On the bright side, you'll be bursting some 5 times a turn with 7.62.

For the time being, pistols are adequate single-shot sidearms. I might even take Gunslinger and Bullet Time at levels 28 and 30.

If you play no-stealth the combat starts as soon as people see you. That is.

With stealth, you can safely walk around, place traps, shank loners, choose the proper position and only then start combat.

If you are patient enough you can shank entire screens without getting shot at.

If anything, stealth is overpowered as fuck in Underrail

Knowing where all the enemies will be and what they're going to be packing after playing the game 5+ times is also helpful.

Unfortunately, there are some scripted encounters in which you're dumped into a box or tableau with no opportunity to place traps or enter stealth. Many of these, particularly early on, will involve Persuasion/Intimidate checks or other skill checks; however, adding speech skill(s) to the list of Evasion and Dodge for novice players running stealth builds is a bit much.

Evasion and Dodge should probably be derived statistics based upon a combination Agility, Dexterity, Perception, and Stealth. Crafting skills are simply too powerful to be skipped altogether, even if they're scrimped upon.

 

[Savecummer]

This game is absolutely brilliant. What similar titles would you recommend?

The Age of Decadence

One games forces you to crawl from one literal empty cave to another 11 times in a row, without a map, to get to some settlement.
The other teleports you around without asking, to places you dont know or expect or both.
Your recommendation engine is worse than Netflix.

 

[Jezal_k23]

Evasion and Dodge should probably be derived statistics based upon a combination Agility, Dexterity, Perception, and Stealth. Crafting skills are simply too powerful to be skipped altogether, even if they're scrimped upon.

I agree! Dodge and Evasion have needed an overhaul for ages now.

 

[CHEMS]

Knowing where all the enemies will be and what they're going to be packing after playing the game 5+ times is also helpful.

Yeah... game could use some randomization. Also i never take dodge or evasion. Only exception is 30 dodge so i get escape artist for my CHEM build. Why worry about dodge if dead people can't attack me?

 

[Blaine]

why overhaul it when it works as is? all yous want is to be good at both with no investment because you compulsively need to be good at everything with one character

just max your dodge and evasion witih cheat engine

I can effectively max out nearly three crafting skills for the price of maxing out Dodge and Evasion. Mechanics and Electronics yield extremely powerful weapons and energy shields; Mechanics and Clothier yield extremely powerful clothing and armor; and Biology and Chemistry yield extremely powerful explosives and drugs.

Unlike ALL other skills in this entire game beyond the primary combat skills, Dodge and Evasion must be maxed out at all times to remain remotely effective, particularly at higher difficulties as enemy skill totals inflate—and there are fucking two of them! They're also incredibly feat-hungry if you can be bothered to invest in them at all. Crucially, you can do without Dodge and Evasion if you know the game and plan ahead well enough.

Stop being so melodramatic. No character will be good at everything. Some speech skills, some psi and/or weapon skills, and some subterfuge skills will all be left behind, as will oceans of feats that don't fit a given build. The unfortunate reality of this game is that the best defense is a good offense, so sinking shitloads of skill points and feats into defensive skills that don't even work when you're afflicted by any of the many ubiquitous disabling effects in this game makes no fucking sense at all.

I'm aware that it's possible to play with them. It's even possible to pump INT a bit, sacrifice something (like Chemistry and Biology, or just accept lower ultimate crafting skills), and max them both without completely undermining the rest of your skill spread. But there's no fucking reason to.