Putting the 'role' back in role-playing games since 2002.
Donate to Codex
Good Old Games
  • Welcome to rpgcodex.net, a site dedicated to discussing computer based role-playing games in a free and open fashion. We're less strict than other forums, but please refer to the rules.

    "This message is awaiting moderator approval": All new users must pass through our moderation queue before they will be able to post normally. Until your account has "passed" your posts will only be visible to yourself (and moderators) until they are approved. Give us a week to get around to approving / deleting / ignoring your mundane opinion on crap before hassling us about it. Once you have passed the moderation period (think of it as a test), you will be able to post normally, just like all the other retards.

Underrail: The Incline Awakens

Blaine

Cis-Het Oppressor
Patron
Joined
Oct 6, 2012
Messages
1,874,795
Location
Roanoke, VA
Grab the Codex by the pussy
Is this still doable? First time i killed him was with W2C ammo back when expedition came out and it was hilarious. No ethereal being can withstand the power of armor piercing tungsten bullets!

Oh yes, it's still doable. Did it just today.

It's clearly a side effect of incorporeal entities using the same system of resistances as heavily-armored corporeal enemies. A custom script should probably be added to nullify W2C's bonus when attacking incorporeal entities.
 

CHEMS

Scholar
Joined
Nov 17, 2020
Messages
1,694
Is this still doable? First time i killed him was with W2C ammo back when expedition came out and it was hilarious. No ethereal being can withstand the power of armor piercing tungsten bullets!

Oh yes, it's still doable. Did it just today.

It's clearly a side effect of incorporeal entities using the same system of resistances as heavily-armored corporeal enemies. A custom script should probably be added to nullify W2C's bonus when attacking incorporeal entities.

if only you could cheese the doppelgangers the same way...
 

the mole

Arbiter
Shitposter
Joined
Aug 1, 2019
Messages
1,933
I would have ended up doing a burst ar again, probably light or medium armor with time majik

what's the point

and I have to do a full course of study on the perks again

hey at least I proved my willpower beating it the first time no need to prove how badass I am again
 

Sykar

Arcane
Joined
Dec 2, 2014
Messages
11,297
Location
Turn right after Alpha Centauri
Is this still doable? First time i killed him was with W2C ammo back when expedition came out and it was hilarious. No ethereal being can withstand the power of armor piercing tungsten bullets!

Oh yes, it's still doable. Did it just today.

It's clearly a side effect of incorporeal entities using the same system of resistances as heavily-armored corporeal enemies. A custom script should probably be added to nullify W2C's bonus when attacking incorporeal entities.

if only you could cheese the doppelgangers the same way...

There is already enough cheese in the game.
 

Matalarata

Arcane
Patron
Joined
May 8, 2013
Messages
2,646
Location
The threshold line
So... cleared the tunnel, activated the 5 outposts and trapped the cave hoppers. So far so good, the 3 grown azurites in the mushroom caves caused me a couple reload but I managed to separate them with a bear trap and snipe them one at the time with Cryokinesis.

So far I've invested in Biology (25) and Chemistry (10) for Psi Inhalant (is there any other way to recover Psi reserves?). Thinking about also splashing a bit of mechanics early on for bear traps. Since I'm investing in Biology anyway I should have enough materials to craft poisoned ones. Mechanics is also needed for grenades parts, right?

So far I've bought and traded very little, learned Extract Humor and Process Plant and Fungus and the Inhalant recipe, is there anything I should be on the lookout for when bartering since the beginning?
 

hell bovine

Arcane
Joined
Sep 9, 2013
Messages
2,711
Location
Secret Level
So far I've invested in Biology (25) and Chemistry (10) for Psi Inhalant (is there any other way to recover Psi reserves?). Thinking about also splashing a bit of mechanics early on for bear traps. Since I'm investing in Biology anyway I should have enough materials to craft poisoned ones. Mechanics is also needed for grenades parts, right?
You can buy bear traps easily, so mechanics is not worth it for traps alone. Electronics is best for psi for item crafting. But with high intelligence you can afford to invest in all crafting skill, since you don't need to spend many points.

Don't focus on crafting too much. My suggestion is to play around with psi abilities, stealth & noise system. Learning how to effectively use that is more important early game, imo.
 

Sykar

Arcane
Joined
Dec 2, 2014
Messages
11,297
Location
Turn right after Alpha Centauri
So far I've invested in Biology (25) and Chemistry (10) for Psi Inhalant (is there any other way to recover Psi reserves?). Thinking about also splashing a bit of mechanics early on for bear traps. Since I'm investing in Biology anyway I should have enough materials to craft poisoned ones. Mechanics is also needed for grenades parts, right?
You can buy bear traps easily, so mechanics is not worth it for traps alone. Electronics is best for psi for item crafting. But with high intelligence you can afford to invest in all crafting skill, since you don't need to spend many points.

Don't focus on crafting too much. My suggestion is to play around with psi abilities, stealth & noise system. Learning how to effectively use that is more important early game, imo.

I mean I always use builds which stretch skill points a little thin like my current Tranquility build:
https://underrail.info/build/?HgQDB...dZC4hBT1nwofCiHLCt8OMwp3CruKitQLirJYK4qyXAd-_

Still 50+ skill points in reserve and did not bother getting the level 30 feat. All calculated with stuff like All In, Lemurian Suit, etc.
 

CHEMS

Scholar
Joined
Nov 17, 2020
Messages
1,694
Is this still doable? First time i killed him was with W2C ammo back when expedition came out and it was hilarious. No ethereal being can withstand the power of armor piercing tungsten bullets!

Oh yes, it's still doable. Did it just today.

It's clearly a side effect of incorporeal entities using the same system of resistances as heavily-armored corporeal enemies. A custom script should probably be added to nullify W2C's bonus when attacking incorporeal entities.

if only you could cheese the doppelgangers the same way...

There is already enough cheese in the game.

Enough cheese... in UNDERRAIL? Can these words actually be together in the same phrase??
 

Blaine

Cis-Het Oppressor
Patron
Joined
Oct 6, 2012
Messages
1,874,795
Location
Roanoke, VA
Grab the Codex by the pussy
I spent two hours last night working out a build that not only had maxed Evasion and Dodge, but even the relevant Evasion and Dodge feats, as well as maxed Throwing and throwing knife feats. I pumped INT a bit and meta-gamed the rest of the skills hard enough to even fit mostly-maxed Melee and Fancy Footwork in there. I had to dump Stealth by about 40 points and Mechanics by quite a bit, but was still able to hit 113 Lockpicking, 125 Pickpocketing, and 110 Mercantile.

Here's my problem, once I sat back to consider: Throwing knives are designed to suck ass against armor. That leaves me with a substantial reliance on grenades to soften up heavies, then (presumably) scratching them just barely enough with poisoned knives to eventually finish them off with damage over time (after they gulp their inevitable health hypo, if human). I strongly doubt poison works fast enough to be viable during tougher fights on Hard+.

Throwing knives are all JHP and no W2C. There is a large expansion filled with crabs, robots, and sea serpents that take shit-all damage from non-armor-piercing materiel. On top of that, knives occupy precious utility slots.

Since I'm currently playing an SMG build, comparing it to a potential throwing knives build makes me feel like I'll be giving up W2C and utility slots for... what, exactly? The novelty of throwing as a primary means of offense? The investment in them (in both skill points and feats) is not that of a secondary weapon.

Just looking for input from people who've been playing around with the updated throwing knives.
 

lukaszek

the determinator
Patron
Joined
Jan 15, 2015
Messages
13,281
Just looking for input from people who've been playing around with the updated throwing knives.
throwing knives themselves are super hard mode

I had to dump Stealth by about 40 points
yeah... no. You want to avoid fights with throwing knives. They are not weightless so its best to preserve them.

Here's my problem, once I sat back to consider: Throwing knives are designed to suck ass against armor. That leaves me with a substantial reliance on grenades to soften up heavies, then (presumably) scratching them just barely enough with poisoned knives to eventually finish them off with damage over time (after they gulp their inevitable health hypo, if human). I strongly doubt poison works fast enough to be viable during tougher fights on Hard+.
Sheepherder did psi throwing knives on dominating and resolved to skip some fights, like multiple nagas one. It was just before update with glove and acid vials

hardest part of playing throwing knives is manually refilling that utility belt slots

please post your build, i rly dunno what to expect when you seem to focused on throwing knives yet got fancy footwork
 

Blaine

Cis-Het Oppressor
Patron
Joined
Oct 6, 2012
Messages
1,874,795
Location
Roanoke, VA
Grab the Codex by the pussy
please post your build, i rly dunno what to expect when you seem to focused on throwing knives yet got fancy footwork

Yeah, because I'm not dumb enough to think that throwing knives can carry a build without a pigsticker as heavy backup at the very least.

I'll post it, but you're gonna laugh, and there's little point since your comments have already put me off the idea of actually playing this build. A weapon with six attached feats that requires maxing a skill and that occupies not only a hand slot (the glove) but also at least one utility slot is, quite clearly due to the investment it demands, a primary weapon—whether Styg thinks so or not. And, sad to say, all primary weapons must have a means of penetrating heavy armor, or they're quite simply trash. That's the consequence of filling up a huge expansion with heavily-armored enemies. There are explosive, shock, and acid bullets and crossbow bolts; might as well add knives to the list. I imagine that's why shock shurikens were added, but I've heard they're crap at the moment.

https://underrail.info/build/?HgMMC...SYTWFEnw5MbXkEPTsKzwqYvw4zCnRpt4qi7A-K9jgXfvw
 

CHEMS

Scholar
Joined
Nov 17, 2020
Messages
1,694
Just looking for input from people who've been playing around with the updated throwing knives.

They're decent as support. Works great with versatility builds. Fatal throw + Remote Surgeon is a great combo, not even accounting Ripper.
 

CHEMS

Scholar
Joined
Nov 17, 2020
Messages
1,694

Blaine

Cis-Het Oppressor
Patron
Joined
Oct 6, 2012
Messages
1,874,795
Location
Roanoke, VA
Grab the Codex by the pussy
and you can invest a lot in it when you don't have to compulsively invest in ie mercantile, electronics and lockpicking and hacking, which are the real dump skills

Styg chose to make Mercantile useful by requiring a deterministic amount of it to access the great majority of high-quality crafting ingredients, rare consumables, weapon accessories, special ammunition in any quantity, and even utilities (crawler poison stuff being particularly notable). This is a negative incentive, because if you skip Mercantile, your crafting skills will be gimped throughout the entire game. I'll grant that you can easily make do with, say, 60-70 Mercantile, then pop a Hypercerebrix or All-In to unlock most of the special inventories, except Effreitor Hannah's. But neither Hypercerebrix nor All-In grow on trees, and this is a strongly meta approach, arguably even more compulsive than the way I typically handle Mercantile.

I will agree that Lockpicking and Hacking can be skipped. Ultimately, >95% of the loot you'll receive is essentially just extra charons, because anything that's not at least a >130q crafting ingredient isn't something you'll be using past the midgame. I can't remember a single instance during this entire playthrough when I used a piece of generic equipment either looted from the game world or crafted from ingredients looted mostly from the game world—the only exception being a few uniques, such as Rathound Regalia and the Chemical Assault Unit Armor/Biohazard Boots/Coretech Respirator combo (for 100% Acid and Bio resist). Most everything else I use has been made from crafting ingredients and accessories offered by merchants, much of it from special inventory; and even if such things are obtainable without access to special inventories, odds are you'll be visiting a lot more merchants before you find them.

I skipped Hacking on my current build, and only missed out on a bit of exploration; even then, the endoscope could at least reveal many hacking-locked rooms. You don't seem to recognize any value in exploration, unfortunately, only pure meta.

You know what would solve a lot of this? Crafting not being absurdly strong would do it, though it's far too late now to fix it. The power of crafted gear relegates nearly all of the unique gear and quite literally all of the generic pre-made gear to the status of vendor trash. What really bothers me are all those unique sprites complete with weapon animations—for the Tesla armor, Lemurian Security Marine armor, Protectorate Marine armor (even if you wear the aforementioned on a jet ski, your sprite just wears a wetsuit), and others—going woefully underused, as do most of the Expedition leather armor sprites, because they fill the nonexistent niche of the middle ground: fairly high armor penalties and middling statistics, too heavy for fastfag builds, too light for slowfag builds. They also require Super Steel to both raise their quality and unlock their full potential, which isn't true of tactical coats, riot armor, or tin cans.

And in any event, it's not a compulsion, but rather a cold analysis of trade-offs. I'm not willing to trade off special merchant inventories, exploration and alternative routes, extra charons throughout the game, additional plasma core power, and at least one utility slot for the ability to kill lightly-armored enemies in a slightly different way—AP refund or no. I'm not saying it can't work. I'm saying that I'm not willing to make the trade-off you're referring to because I judge it to not be worthwhile.
 
Last edited:

Blaine

Cis-Het Oppressor
Patron
Joined
Oct 6, 2012
Messages
1,874,795
Location
Roanoke, VA
Grab the Codex by the pussy
What part of the expansion had heavily armored enemies?

The part with the crabs, sea serpents, and automatons—in other words, quite a lot of it. In fact, there are entire points of interest filled with crabs and automatons and nothing else.

They aren't as heavily armored as, say, Balor, but they are at the very least well armored, particularly the blue serpent fellers.
 
Last edited:

Tygrende

Arbiter
Joined
Aug 2, 2017
Messages
874
Tesla armor
Don't talk shit about tesla. It's the only way to achieve 100% electro DR with galvanic boots and/or helmet. It makes coil spiders harmless. This may not sound terribly useful if you're used to only playing with stealth and mashing the F9 button, but it's invalueable otherwise. Coil spiders counter metal armor builds, hard.
 

Blaine

Cis-Het Oppressor
Patron
Joined
Oct 6, 2012
Messages
1,874,795
Location
Roanoke, VA
Grab the Codex by the pussy
Don't talk shit about tesla. It's the only way to achieve 100% electro DR with galvanic boots and/or helmet. It makes coil spiders harmless. This may not sound terribly useful if you're used to only playing with stealth and mashing the F9 button, but it's invalueable otherwise. Coil spiders counter metal armor builds, hard.

Sounds like the electricity version of the aluminum foil coat and hat, infused siphoner tabi with insulated padding armor (though I prefer to wear aluminum foil and use molotovs to clear a path through cryogas), and the Chemical Assault Unit combo. I haven't played a tin can build since before Expedition, and my spear/riot armor guy dispatched the great majority of coil spiders before ever finding the Tesla armor.

Meanwhile, for the rest of the game you'll almost certainly be wearing either a generic tin can, generic riot armor, or generic leather armor. If you're lucky, you'll get to look cool in a black school shooter trenchcoat, like my current build did until I had access to infused cave hopper gear.

You know what we need? A vanity armor slot. There, I've said it. Kiss my ass. It's purely a matter of appearance, so it's nowhere near as decline as adding the automap was—and should be dead simple to implement. That way, all the effort that went into those sprites no one ever gets to see won't be wasted.

I don't F9 unless I die, by the way, which is fairly rare. If I bumble unprepared into a bad situation and get some bad rolls, I see it through to the end if at all possible. The best example from this playthrough was when I walked unstealthed right into the large group of Serpentborn who land once you crack Joint Security Headquarters, with my food buffs gone and non-ideal utilities in the slots, etc. I'd forgotten they'd be there.

My first grenade went a bit awry, too. I finished with something like 9 HP, couldn't even see any red in the HP bar, and I'd used a super hypo, Aegis and morphine, all the good shit.
 
Last edited:

ghostdog

Arcane
Patron
Joined
Dec 31, 2007
Messages
11,171
You know what we need? A vanity armor slot. There, I've said it. Kiss my ass. It's purely a matter of appearance, so it's nowhere near as decline as adding the automap was—and should be dead simple to implement. That way, all the effort that went into those sprites no one ever gets to see won't be wasted.
+1
I'm a psionic demigod, destroyer of minds and master of time. I can't look like the fucking ratking all the time!
 

As an Amazon Associate, rpgcodex.net earns from qualifying purchases.
Back
Top Bottom