Follow along with the video below to see how to install our site as a web app on your home screen.
Note: This feature may not be available in some browsers.
Welcome to rpgcodex.net, a site dedicated to discussing computer based role-playing games in a free and open fashion. We're less strict than other forums, but please refer to the rules.
"This message is awaiting moderator approval": All new users must pass through our moderation queue before they will be able to post normally. Until your account has "passed" your posts will only be visible to yourself (and moderators) until they are approved. Give us a week to get around to approving / deleting / ignoring your mundane opinion on crap before hassling us about it. Once you have passed the moderation period (think of it as a test), you will be able to post normally, just like all the other retards.
8 turns of having someone block a choke is pretty nice. I don’t know what spells early on can provide you the CC cryostasis can reliably and for such a low AP cost. Guaranteed CC, how is that not worth a slot? On hybrid characters I don’t think I’ve run out of psi. Psycho MT/PK I think was the only time I came across this problem but even then when I have 8 turns of not having to deal with a target it’s pretty easy to replenish my psi during that time. Trip school might have more of a problem but I think it’s inefficient to go more than 2 school anyway.
There's nothing wrong with niche psi abilities... until you have limited psi slots and there's a material cost to swapping your loadout. Then you're a fool to not run with the most broadly useful stuff all the time.
Honestly, this is it. Unless someone could properly answer this, I really can't see any proper justifications for the new PSI system. Everyone else's seems to have completely lost hope for any plans to properly address these issues (and when I said 'these', I'm including the other rather questionable designs decisions like nerfing AR and later Spear Throw, etc etc) so now they just keep inhaling that copium.
Mac_Orion I sincerely hope you don't take what Sykar himself specifically said to heart and correlates it with what the rest of us has been saying. Because contrary to what a lot of people thinks, the Codex isn't a hive mind at all.
you saying half of those are worthless?
make a concrete post about the skills that you think that are bad and post it on our forum under suggestions with the reason you think there is no need to memorize them.
I do not see "bad" psi skills, just very niche ones.
They are only useful if you build your character around them. If you do not, you will never use them.
I do not see "bad" psi skills, just very niche ones.
They are only useful if you build your character around them. If you do not, you will never use them.
There are some that are pretty bad. Cryoshield, transference, neuralvisual, rewind, and predation are all pretty bad. I’m sure there are a few I’m missing that I would fit into the “bad” column but these come to my mind instantly. Especially cryoshield, what a pile of shit
Neither am I. I was simply implying that there's no point in that now. Once they rolled that "legacy" build it became clear that there's no turning back. It is your only give and take option still. You sure like to post the copium pic but it's you who actually need that stuff, except in a good way.
There's nothing wrong with niche psi abilities... until you have limited psi slots and there's a material cost to swapping your loadout. Then you're a fool to not run with the most broadly useful stuff all the time.
Niche abilities have limited use pretty much by definition. So yes, you run with the "broad load" most of the time and change it only if necessary. I don't see a problem with it since most builds work like that. Not to mention experienced players who knows where's what. On paper the swapping cost also further increases the INT importance for PSI users.
Managing of all that is the part of the game, yes. You remind me of people were complaining about items weight and that's fucking ridiculous. Well, maybe they will add options for stuff that you consider tedious in their next game, we'll see.
Says the butthurt bitch who is annoyed by the fact that game isn't revolving around his specific preferences and rate everyone's post who disagreeing with him retarded :D
Honestly, this is it. Unless someone could properly answer this, I really can't see any proper justifications for the new PSI system. Everyone else's seems to have completely lost hope for any plans to properly address these issues (and when I said 'these', I'm including the other rather questionable designs decisions like nerfing AR and later Spear Throw, etc etc) so now they just keep inhaling that copium.
Every build requires preparation. Choose your weapons, tools, armor, meds, grenades and whatever. This wasn't true for PSI. You just walk around in psi-beetle vest and carry around a bunch of blue potions.
Now PSIkers are required to prepare just like everybody else
Honestly, this is it. Unless someone could properly answer this, I really can't see any proper justifications for the new PSI system. Everyone else's seems to have completely lost hope for any plans to properly address these issues (and when I said 'these', I'm including the other rather questionable designs decisions like nerfing AR and later Spear Throw, etc etc) so now they just keep inhaling that copium.
Every build requires preparation. Choose your weapons, tools, armor, meds, grenades and whatever. This wasn't true for PSI. You just walk around in psi-beetle vest and carry around a bunch of blue potions.
Now PSIkers are required to prepare just like everybody else
Why not design a system that requires preparation and doesn't fuck over niche abilities? You could say that the more powerful the ability, the more slots it requires, so it's a choice of equipping 8 niche abilities or 3 all-purpose ones.
Honestly, this is it. Unless someone could properly answer this, I really can't see any proper justifications for the new PSI system. Everyone else's seems to have completely lost hope for any plans to properly address these issues (and when I said 'these', I'm including the other rather questionable designs decisions like nerfing AR and later Spear Throw, etc etc) so now they just keep inhaling that copium.
Every build requires preparation. Choose your weapons, tools, armor, meds, grenades and whatever. This wasn't true for PSI. You just walk around in psi-beetle vest and carry around a bunch of blue potions.
Now PSIkers are required to prepare just like everybody else
Why not design a system that requires preparation and doesn't fuck over niche abilities? You could say that the more powerful the ability, the more slots it requires, so it's a choice of equipping 8 niche abilities or 3 all-purpose ones.
how about you go dumpster diving to find some rare scrolls lobotomy thingies. Later on you will inscribe spells abilities on them into your spellbook celebral computer.
Except as you said, some spells abilities are more powerful, so lets introduce levels/circles, easilly browsable by the flip swipe of the page.
Then we obviously are going to divide spells abilities into schools to keep tm/methatermics/whatever relevant.
Now you just need to pick spells abilities you will be casting on given day during rest by the fire
Eh....a lot of the problems would go away if the devs simply doubled (or at least increased it by 50% for a max of 12 abilities) the number of inervations available.
The devs would get to put their precious cap on psi, and players would have a little wiggle room for experimentation and niche abilities.
Would it make everybody happy all the time? Probably not. But it'd be a good compromise at least.
I’ve mentioned it before, but instead of slots, I think a point buy system would work better for limiting psi abilities. More powerful psi abilities would cost more points to inervate and less powerful niche abilities would require less points. This way you wouldn’t be able to load up on all the most powerful psi abilities from each school, but you also wouldn’t be fucking over niche abilities like distortion field.
Neither am I. I was simply implying that there's no point in that now. Once they rolled that "legacy" build it became clear that there's no turning back. It is your only give and take option still. You sure like to post the copium pic but it's you who actually need that stuff, except in a good way.
There's nothing wrong with niche psi abilities... until you have limited psi slots and there's a material cost to swapping your loadout. Then you're a fool to not run with the most broadly useful stuff all the time.
Niche abilities have limited use pretty much by definition. So yes, you run with the "broad load" most of the time and change it only if necessary. I don't see a problem with it since most builds work like that. Not to mention experienced players who knows where's what. On paper the swapping cost also further increases the INT importance for PSI users.
Managing of all that is the part of the game, yes. You remind me of people were complaining about items weight and that's fucking ridiculous. Well, maybe they will add options for stuff that you consider tedious in their next game, we'll see.
Says the butthurt bitch who is annoyed by the fact that game isn't revolving around his specific preferences and rate everyone's post who disagreeing with him retarded :D
They are butthurt bitches which is why Dominatning was released as a big middle finger to some people telling them that hard was too easy. The rest is the usual drivel of a Styg cock sucker, in other words worthless.
I rate retarded because there is not anything else to rate a post like yours moronic/idiotic/braindead/etc.
Honestly, this is it. Unless someone could properly answer this, I really can't see any proper justifications for the new PSI system. Everyone else's seems to have completely lost hope for any plans to properly address these issues (and when I said 'these', I'm including the other rather questionable designs decisions like nerfing AR and later Spear Throw, etc etc) so now they just keep inhaling that copium.
Every build requires preparation. Choose your weapons, tools, armor, meds, grenades and whatever. This wasn't true for PSI. You just walk around in psi-beetle vest and carry around a bunch of blue potions.
Now PSIkers are required to prepare just like everybody else
Ah a build does not behave like others. Instead of finding something FUN we introduce mind numbing tedium and make already rarely used abilities nigh useless. Genius!
Hey, pst! If people complain about tedium in other builds the solution is NOT to introduce tedium to builds that have less, moron.
Neither am I. I was simply implying that there's no point in that now. Once they rolled that "legacy" build it became clear that there's no turning back. It is your only give and take option still. You sure like to post the copium pic but it's you who actually need that stuff, except in a good way.
There's nothing wrong with niche psi abilities... until you have limited psi slots and there's a material cost to swapping your loadout. Then you're a fool to not run with the most broadly useful stuff all the time.
Niche abilities have limited use pretty much by definition. So yes, you run with the "broad load" most of the time and change it only if necessary. I don't see a problem with it since most builds work like that. Not to mention experienced players who knows where's what. On paper the swapping cost also further increases the INT importance for PSI users.
Managing of all that is the part of the game, yes. You remind me of people were complaining about items weight and that's fucking ridiculous. Well, maybe they will add options for stuff that you consider tedious in their next game, we'll see.
Says the butthurt bitch who is annoyed by the fact that game isn't revolving around his specific preferences and rate everyone's post who disagreeing with him retarded :D
They are butthurt bitches which is why Dominatning was released as a big middle finger to some people telling them that hard was too easy. The rest is the usual drivel of a Styg cock sucker, in other words worthless.
I rate retarded because there is not anything else to rate a post like yours moronic/idiotic/braindead/etc.
Honestly, this is it. Unless someone could properly answer this, I really can't see any proper justifications for the new PSI system. Everyone else's seems to have completely lost hope for any plans to properly address these issues (and when I said 'these', I'm including the other rather questionable designs decisions like nerfing AR and later Spear Throw, etc etc) so now they just keep inhaling that copium.
Every build requires preparation. Choose your weapons, tools, armor, meds, grenades and whatever. This wasn't true for PSI. You just walk around in psi-beetle vest and carry around a bunch of blue potions.
Now PSIkers are required to prepare just like everybody else
Ah a build does not behave like others. Instead of finding something FUN we introduce mind numbing tedium and make already rarely used abilities nigh useless. Genius!
I’ve mentioned it before, but instead of slots, I think a point buy system would work better for limiting psi abilities. More powerful psi abilities would cost more points to inervate and less powerful niche abilities would require less points. This way you wouldn’t be able to load up on all the most powerful psi abilities from each school, but you also wouldn’t be fucking over niche abilities like distortion field.
So....what? You now have a choice of, say, 4 abilities you'll need all the time or 8 abilities you need very rarely?
That seems like it would just exacerbate the problem. Not fix it.
Of course, it'd work if you just upped the ante on how many "powerful" abilities you could have. Like 8 maximum. Then you could have 4 "powerful" abilities and like 8 "weaker" abilities. Or whatever combination thereof.
But that seems WAY overly complicated when you could just up the number of slots period and do essentially the same thing without making it over-complicated.
Neither am I. I was simply implying that there's no point in that now. Once they rolled that "legacy" build it became clear that there's no turning back. It is your only give and take option still. You sure like to post the copium pic but it's you who actually need that stuff, except in a good way.
There's nothing wrong with niche psi abilities... until you have limited psi slots and there's a material cost to swapping your loadout. Then you're a fool to not run with the most broadly useful stuff all the time.
Niche abilities have limited use pretty much by definition. So yes, you run with the "broad load" most of the time and change it only if necessary. I don't see a problem with it since most builds work like that. Not to mention experienced players who knows where's what. On paper the swapping cost also further increases the INT importance for PSI users.
Managing of all that is the part of the game, yes. You remind me of people were complaining about items weight and that's fucking ridiculous. Well, maybe they will add options for stuff that you consider tedious in their next game, we'll see.
Says the butthurt bitch who is annoyed by the fact that game isn't revolving around his specific preferences and rate everyone's post who disagreeing with him retarded :D
They are butthurt bitches which is why Dominatning was released as a big middle finger to some people telling them that hard was too easy. The rest is the usual drivel of a Styg cock sucker, in other words worthless.
I rate retarded because there is not anything else to rate a post like yours moronic/idiotic/braindead/etc.
Honestly, this is it. Unless someone could properly answer this, I really can't see any proper justifications for the new PSI system. Everyone else's seems to have completely lost hope for any plans to properly address these issues (and when I said 'these', I'm including the other rather questionable designs decisions like nerfing AR and later Spear Throw, etc etc) so now they just keep inhaling that copium.
Every build requires preparation. Choose your weapons, tools, armor, meds, grenades and whatever. This wasn't true for PSI. You just walk around in psi-beetle vest and carry around a bunch of blue potions.
Now PSIkers are required to prepare just like everybody else
Ah a build does not behave like others. Instead of finding something FUN we introduce mind numbing tedium and make already rarely used abilities nigh useless. Genius!
By introducing nothing but mindless obnoxious number bloat that breaks immersion instead of actually raising difficulty in an at least somewhat smart way.
Honestly, this is it. Unless someone could properly answer this, I really can't see any proper justifications for the new PSI system. Everyone else's seems to have completely lost hope for any plans to properly address these issues (and when I said 'these', I'm including the other rather questionable designs decisions like nerfing AR and later Spear Throw, etc etc) so now they just keep inhaling that copium.
Every build requires preparation. Choose your weapons, tools, armor, meds, grenades and whatever. This wasn't true for PSI. You just walk around in psi-beetle vest and carry around a bunch of blue potions.
Now PSIkers are required to prepare just like everybody else
They could've made it so you either (1) have a separate pool of resources which needs to be manually replenished every now and then (like the current psi reserves, akin to equipment durability), or (2) have slots for the spells so you don't have access to ALL of them at a time, like how you're limited to just 2 weapons in each hand/however many combat utilities ('nades, throwing knives, special bolts, etc etc) you can put in your belt, (3) made it so that investing in more than one psi skill resulted in some form of penalty to your performance, (4) nerf psi boosters, right at the beginning when taking The Pill™ the Doctor told us how psionics are prone to psi boosters/psi mushrooms addiction, and it leads to the existence of the Lunatics. But nowhere does this 'addiction' ever affected our character. There's the HP penalty, yes, but afaik that's the results of taking The Pill™ instead of training to awaken your psi powers like it normally should've been done in the setting.
They could've chose 1 of those instead, or maybe combine 2 with some more fine-tuning. But implementing ALL 3 at the same time seems like they just want to add unnecessary tedium to it. Hell, it's nowhere near close to a simple weapon reloading/battery recharging/equipment repairing, those can be done in a jiffy. Changing your innervation setups resulted in your ENTIRE psi reserves AND psi points exhausted, for whatever reason. Imagine your assault rifle's durability completely exhausted whenever you're reloading or changing your ammo type, that's just how dumb it is. I could understand if they impose some sort of cost for whenever changing your innervation setups, but having it emptied completely doesn't seem to make any fucking sense.
Hell, each of those design decision could be improved:
Having it so you draw from psi reserves to regenerates your psi points (either naturally or with boosters) is already an improvement in and of itself, so no comments here, except for the fact that changing your innervation setups completely exhausted all of your psi reserves AND points. This needs to either go away, or changed so that you only need to pay a specific amount of price, maybe even based on how much changes you're making to your current innervation. But, again, choosing one of this design decision instead of all of them would've improve Psi without adding more than necessary to the tedium.
Make it so you have 'general' slots for all spells, influenced by either WIL or INT. And then, have special slot(s) specifically made for a psi school, based on either how proficient a character is in that psi school or with a feat. This will help characters actually specialize in a specific psi skill instead of investing in them all and be an imba cave wiz, but without completely discouraging players from the niche spells because you simply have more rooms for experimentation with (theoretically) more slots.. They could even impose either some sort of psi cost/AP penalty/bonus to a spell innervated in a general slot or in a specialized slot, whichever works in practice, but not a global penalty that applies for whenever you're innervating spells from multiple psi school. Say, you get a slot specialized for Thought Control, so TC spells get a bonus of psi-cost/CD reduction when innervated into that slot, but if you really, REALLY want to innervate a Psychokinesis spell into that slot, you can, but you get psi-cost/CD penalty to the spell.
It seems they've applied the psi cost penalty to only when you're innervating psi from multiple school. You know what they could've done here instead? Do away with slots completely, but impose a general, global penalty for when you're investing in more than one psi skills. The feats like Psycho-neural Flexibility and Psycho-neural Optimization can still be applied, reducing the global penalty (or adds global bonus instead, as is the case with the latter). And/or if you have a disparity between one psi skill and the other, reduce the penalty to the psi skills with more points invested to it.
Nerf. Psi. Boosters. The fact that it has absolutely NO withdrawals at all, when psi drugs overdoses is one of the first things you're hearing from the NPCs when talking about Psi, is just weird. I realizes this is because there's no proper overdose mechanic a la Fallout's drug addiction, but you already have withdrawal debuffs to adrenaline shots, morphine shots, and even the Hercules drug, so why not put one to psi boosters in the first place? It's like you guys wrote that line about psi drug addiction/overdose, but completely forgot about it when working with the actual in-game items, or whichever came first. The nerfs could be, for example, a debuff, which as long as it's up, the amount of psi regenerated with subsequent boosters would be penalized; consuming certain amounts of boosters within specific time frame/turns resulted in the debuff either getting stronger, prolonged, or both; and assuming this nerf is applied while having psi reserves, allows usage of boosters to restore psi points but at the cost of HP instead (could even be tied with Hemopsychosis in some way).
Once again, my point is that each one of these are fine when implemented on its own, or you could do two of them at the same time but with some fine-tuning so you don't get some bullshit like completely exhausting ALL of not only your psi reserves but ALSO your psi points whenever you're changing your innervation setup. But having implemented ALL 3 of those at the same time, with the way they are, seems like only adding tedium for the sake of it. I don't know if you can call this a personal preference, but the way I see it, the best way for the new Psi system to come out would be with (1) keep the psi reserves, psi indeed needs some sort of global resources that needs to be manually replenished, like equipment durability, (2) keep either the slots OR the penalty, not both; the penalty itself is already fine on paper but could do with a couple of improvements like what I mentioned above, but with slots they need to consider the dumb reserves-points exhaustion for changing the innervation setups. By going either slots or penalty, but not both, the niche spells will have a chance, because with no slots but with penalty players can do as they've always done but this time they will need to watch out for suddenly running out of psi, while with slots (the way I proposed above) but no penalty there will be room for the niche spells since theoretically you can have more than the current 8 maximum slots, while also not discouraged by any kinds of penalty (except if placing certain spells in either the general or specialized slot, which could translates into bonuses instead of penalty). And finally (3) nerf. Psi. Boosters.
Did I just gave Styg some more ideas on how to 'balance' the game?
Niche abilities have limited use pretty much by definition. So yes, you run with the "broad load" most of the time and change it only if necessary. I don't see a problem with it since most builds work like that. Not to mention experienced players who knows where's what. On paper the swapping cost also further increases the INT importance for PSI users.
Except most builds didn't work like the current Psi. Like I said, imagine exhausting your entire assault rifle's durability for whenever you're reloading your ammos or changing your ammo types, that's how the current psi works for whenever you're changing your innervation setups (I'm pretty sure someone else already said this). Also, most builds could easily change their belt arrangement with whatever combat utilities they need ('nades, throwing knives, special bolts, cloaking devices etc etc), or put on specific headbands/armor-clothing/boots, or switch their weapons....at absolutely NO costs at all, AND they could do it in combat, with AP costs...which can be reduced with Quick Pockets (and further reduced with speccing into it). Not for psi with the current psi system, oh no. You CAN'T switch innervation setup in-combat, and when you get out of combat and do switch, you're exhausting ALL of your psi reserves and ALL of your psi points.
In what way are they comparable, except for the fact that now both of these builds (psi vs. non-psi) needs to take some extra steps before delving into the moment-to-moment combat gameplay?
Of course, it'd work if you just upped the ante on how many "powerful" abilities you could have. Like 8 maximum. Then you could have 4 "powerful" abilities and like 8 "weaker" abilities.
But that seems WAY overly complicated when could just up the number of slots period and do essentially the same thing without making it over-complicated.
Not that complicated, actually. Like I mentioned: offer more slots in a form "specialized" slots meant for a specific psi school with more points invested into it (or with a feat). Assuming they do away with the global psi-cost penalty when pursuing this route, they could then impose a penalty OR a bonus depending on which spell innervated into which slot (general or specialized), and also based on how proficient characters are in the psi school.
I think everyone should be able to agree that some psi abilities at least should be buffed. What are you even meant to use temporary rewind for? If it didn't take a slot and was automatically innervated I'd still never cast it, because I don't even see any purpose. The point of slots is that you're meant to think about what to equip. If some powers are absolute shit and never worth equipping then that kinda ruins it. If they got buffed to all be good then the problem of people picking the good powers and ignoring the useless ones wouldn't exist because there wouldn't be any useless ones to ignore.
General Info
With psi points now being globally scarce, and psi ability variety being restricted during combat, it is now extremely important that a "full psi" build be highly efficient. Not only do we need to specialize in our desired school and abilities, we need to make sure that we use them in maximally efficient ways. The good news? The learning curve for psi just got very, very flat. The bad news? Unless you just want to challenge yourself, there is now One Correct Way To Play Psi (though depending on what school(s) you want to focus most on, the specifics change slightly).
Of course calling the new PSI learning curve "flat" is an understatement. It is brain dead once you get a a rudamentary grasp on it. Personally I do not consider this a positive either.
Example build gameplay:
Innervate Cryokinesis, Thermodynamic Destabilization, Pyrokinesis, and Pyrokinetic Stream. Find a chokepoint, and lay down as many bear traps as necessary to make yourself safe. Now, make some noise; you might use a grenade, or perhaps you'd like to carry around a firearm. In any event, what you want is to gather enemies up, which the AI will gladly do. At this point, you should
Place ThermoD on the highest health enemy you can easily kill and which is near the middle of the group (5-10 AP, 30 base psi cost)
Cast Cryokinesis on the target most likely to survive the explosion (7-10AP with unspecced Thermodynamicity, 15 base psi cost) Throw a grenade (15 AP)
and if necessary,
Premeditate a Pyrokinesis (0 AP, 20 base psi cost with unspecced Premeditation)
After the explosion, as needed
Cast Cryokinesis (7-10AP, 15 base psi) on any stubborn survivors and if you like Throw another grenade, or
Cast Pyrokinetic Stream.
Are pure psi and psi hybrid viable and effective under the new system, even on dominating?
Yes.
A special mention of Force Field for psi hybrid - under the new system FF will get you kill and is not worth using for 3 WIL psi hybrid and I permanently taken it out of my loadout as a result.
However with the max 8 slots limit, a lot of psi abilities will never get use now.
- Psi-cognitive Interruption, great for npc, almost useless for player. It was maybe useful for taken one psi enemy out before the change (X: doubt) but now the opportunity cost of having it taking up one valuable slot is way too great.
- Neurovisual Disruption: probably maybe useful for psi hybrid that want to snipe next turn, but even that is doubtful as you can just use 5 more AP to enter stealth mode and save up a valuable slot.
- Force Emission: not that great before the change but now absolutely garbage under new system.
- Disruptive Field: super useful before against ranged with its long range and low cost, now again the opportunity cost of having this take up a slot is too great, will never get use.
- Cryo-Shield: opportunity cost, never get use, you get the idea.
- Psycho-temporal Dilation: situationally useful before change, now oc, never get use. I'm a broken record
- Entropic Recurrence: hard to use before, now absolutely garbage under new system, oc, never get use. You know the drill.
- Temporary Rewind: same as above.
- Precognition: I occasionally turn this on before the change hope RNG goddess will smile upon me. Now? Please, oc, never get use, blah blah.
This is at least 9 psi abilities out of 32 available that will never get use due to opportunity cost at a staggering rate of 28.125%. Styg you said you want to expand the psi system, but what's the point of adding new spell if it'll either:
1) never get use because slots are valuable and it's simply not good enough to make the loadout, or
2) It's very good and a must have to be included squeezing another spell out of loadout making the old spell effectively window dressing
See for me, when I play full psi the fun comes from using specific spells under specific condition or using spells unconventionally to giving me an edge: Pre-casting Pseudo-spatial Projection and Cryo-Shield before a tough fight, Disruptive field against a sniper/xbow taking this one enemy out of the fight for several turns, cryostasis/cryo-shield against that native boss using exothermic aura, ThermoD to take out enemies' cryo-shield, Stasis to take out an enemies' pseudo-spatial projection, force field blocking npc into a far corner so he can't yell for friends, FF moving NPC to pickpocket him, cryo-shield yourself when you are on fire, etc.
The above situations do not happen all the time and occurred every once in a while. They added variety and made things fun. With the new system there's simply no place for these kinds of shenanigans now. This is why pure psi are less fun and boring now - you are doing the same thing over and over in order to be viable and effective. It does not make sense to innervated these spells to prepare for an edge case that might never come.
I prepose all psi user getting a free ability once you take the psi pill that will allow the casting of a single non-innervated spell at various cost and/or penalties with the ability itself having a cooldown of 50 ~ 200 turns to cover these edge cases.
On the topic of fun, I do have more comment on this as it had been bugging me for a while now:
There's a very thin line between having challenging mechanics and annoying, extra tedious "work".
The increased weight of repair kits means you need to return to base for repair far more often, breaking game flow making it annoying. Seriously have you try playing a pure AR tin can and watch your gun's durability take a sky dive after every fight? Or play a 3 STR SMG char trying to use trap? Locus? I know they were reduced after much outcry. A certain powerplant not letting you power everything in one go? I know you are trying to drain player resources by making them backtrack to confer a sense of hopelessness and dread - but all these changes and the design philosophy behind them, imho, had crossed this line and ventured firmly into annoying, tedious territory making the game feels like work sometimes and do not, again imho, increase the fun and challenge of the game. This trend is indeed worrying especially with Infusion currently under development and I suspect Styg is using Underrail as a test bed for future system.
Telekinetic Punch
Telekinetic Proxy
Implosion
These three are the bread and butter vs. single target
Thermodynamic Destabilization
Add in thermoD and you are cover on AOE
Psycho-temporal Contraction
Stasis
PTC for AP/MP, Stasis as reliable panic button.
That's already 6 of the 8 slots taken, if you are running psychosis build you 100% want:
Cryokinetic Orb
Now you have 1 slot remaining, please discuss how you could justify choosing those edge case spells over the following:
Cryostasis
Pyrokinesis
Force Field
Electrokinesis
Electrokinetic Imprint
Limited Temporal Increment (a must if you also take Grenadier)
Let's say you are running Trans psi build, and forever reason(s) you don't pick up Cryo orb, again please explain why you'll choose those edge case spells over the above objectively better spells.
Or if you have some alternative loadout for pure psi that would take edge case spell as core spells I would love to hear it.
Alright let's look at 3 WIL psi hybrid:
I'm running 6 or 7 INT for Premeditation and crafting related spells, force field is out due to it's low hp and unreliability. I have 5 slots, a typical load out would be:
Thermodynamic Destabilization + Limited Temporal Increment (w/ Grenadier I have triple explosions within 2 turns, the most effective combo hands down)
Psycho-temporal Contraction (for AP + MP)
Stasis (panic button)
So with the one slot remaining, what would you pick and what's your reasoning?
For me it's one of the following:
Cryostasis - great silent control
Electrokinesis - build specific such as pistol build would use this to execute, otherwise use as stun on demand
Electrokinetic Imprint - instant trap
Again the edge case spells are not even worth considering due to opportunity cost. If there's some factor I'm not considering where edge case spells should be consider as core spells please post them.
If you would at least understand what's the problem(s) with the new system, then you'll know there's no hate at all, only genuine concern with what direction Styg and co is taking their games to.
Also, please don't conflate criticisms with hate/hatred, it's very un-Codexian and only the normies would ever conflate criticisms with hate/hatred.
I have no idea why the fuck Sykar is sounding some vitriolic and genuinely buttmad at the entire dev team haha. To be frank, I don't understand what all these complaints are about. The new system is fine to me and I've a decent amount of these so called "useless" skills on various builds throughout dominating. All of the skills listed below are actually things I've innervate and used on a dominating viable build.
There are 38 Psi skills in the game, and I've used 25 of them, which means 65% of all Psi skills are usable in various builds that are all strong enough to beat the game on its strongest difficulty, without having to resort to serious cheesing. When I look at the rest of the skills that I haven't been able to fit into my builds, there are honestly very few that I would even include into my repertoire if I had the open innervation slots to use them. I don't understand what we're complaining about. Are we complaining about the Psi rework which made niche abilities nonviable? Well I've listed a shit ton of abilities are all viable and used in various different dominating builds (the vast majority of them being builds that aren't even focused around being a Psi wizard), and the rest are so bad I'd never use them even if I had the opportunity to use them. Are we complaining about some Psi abilities only being useful to certain builds? Well what's wrong with that? That's what makes the game fucking great, theory crafting a build to use something like force emissions and enjoying the pay off when it works. Are we complaining about how some Psi abilities aren't good? There's absolutely nothing wrong with that, and I'd be upset if all the Psi abilities were extremely good. Some of these abilities are meant to be used sub optimally early into the game until a newer player finds a better ability. I know we've all played this fucking game a hundred times and know where all the good shit is, but to a new player, these in between abilities that are sub optimal are vital to crafting an immersive and rewarding game experience.
Don't get me wrong, changes and improvements can certainly be made to Psi, and some abilities could be made way better with certain changes (implementing waterways into the game for people that have expedition directly after Depot A instead of having to join Aegis would do a shit ton for Cryogenic Barrier to name just one example off the top of my head), but all these complaints seem super overblown.
Edit: Also, inhalants are good and better balance Psi, as well as adding in further gold sinks into the economy. Change my mind.
I have no idea why the fuck Sykar is sounding some vitriolic and genuinely buttmad at the entire dev team haha. To be frank, I don't understand what all these complaints are about. The new system is fine to me and I've a decent amount of these so called "useless" skills on various builds throughout dominating. All of the skills listed below are actually things I've innervate and used on a dominating viable build.
There are 38 Psi skills in the game, and I've used 25 of them, which means 65% of all Psi skills are usable in various builds that are all strong enough to beat the game on its strongest difficulty, without having to resort to serious cheesing. When I look at the rest of the skills that I haven't been able to fit into my builds, there are honestly very few that I would even include into my repertoire if I had the open innervation slots to use them. I don't understand what we're complaining about. Are we complaining about the Psi rework which made niche abilities nonviable? Well I've listed a shit ton of abilities are all viable and used in various different dominating builds (the vast majority of them being builds that aren't even focused around being a Psi wizard), and the rest are so bad I'd never use them even if I had the opportunity to use them. Are we complaining about some Psi abilities only being useful to certain builds? Well what's wrong with that? That's what makes the game fucking great, theory crafting a build to use something like force emissions and enjoying the pay off when it works. Are we complaining about how some Psi abilities aren't good? There's absolutely nothing wrong with that, and I'd be upset if all the Psi abilities were extremely good. Some of these abilities are meant to be used sub optimally early into the game until a newer player finds a better ability. I know we've all played this fucking game a hundred times and know where all the good shit is, but to a new player, these in between abilities that are sub optimal are vital to crafting an immersive and rewarding game experience.
Don't get me wrong, changes and improvements can certainly be made to Psi, and some abilities could be made way better with certain changes (implementing waterways into the game for people that have expedition directly after Depot A instead of having to join Aegis would do a shit ton for Cryogenic Barrier to name just one example off the top of my head), but all these complaints seem super overblown.
Edit: Also, inhalants are good and better balance Psi, as well as adding in further gold sinks into the economy. Change my mind.
The new system does encourage focusing in on some specific Psi abilities and locks out certain builds from using other abilities that might have a more niche benefit to said specific build, but I don't see why that's a bad thing. My whole point is that by introducing the Psi changes, the issue of Psi being a swiss army knife of utility with almost no investment is addressed, and almost all the Psi skills that are good can still easily be fit into plenty of very good builds.
Even before the new system, how often would abilities that were niche to a certain build be used? Five times? Ten times? Miss me with that shit. Any other complaints?
I bring up dominating viable builds not to make a point about difficulty but to introduce some credibility to my claim that the Psi abilities I listed are useful in many builds and not hampered by the introduction of the new Psi changes. I was also addressing Sykar's claim that half the Psi skills are useless, which is just not true.
The new system does encourage focusing in on some specific Psi abilities and locks out certain builds from using other abilities that might have a more niche benefit to said specific build, but I don't see why that's a bad thing. My whole point is that by introducing the Psi changes, the issue of Psi being a swiss army knife of utility with almost no investment is addressed, and almost all the Psi skills that are good can still easily be fit into plenty of very good builds.
Even before the new system, how often would abilities that were niche to a certain build be used? Five times? Ten times? Miss me with that shit. Any other complaints?
The old system also encouraged focusing, since you are spending feats and spec points on the abilities you spam.
The swiss army knife of utility wasn't addressed in any way, lots of 3 WILL dips abound.
They got buffed, relatively compared to wizards, so it was actually made even worse. Maybe fix the broken resistance checks instead?
