Underrail: The Incline Awakens

[thesecret1]

defence skills will be split so that evasion no longer covers both ranged and aoe

Just means you need to ditch all those defense skills and walk around as a human panzer

 

[Blaine]

Take zone transitions, for example. He didn't like people ducking out of the zone, healing up, and coming back in, so he made that much more difficult to abuse—and I freely admit that the limited nature of a room-by-room level design with transitions tends to creates these sorts of issues, but the result is that we're left with a game in which you really aren't ever allowed to retreat. Players who wouldn't have abused zone transitions maliciously but might have wanted to retreat when they're about to die will now be treated to a gangbang.

Because that's a ridiculous concept. It's a turn based game. Leaving the area and healing/reloading/recharging is your turn, so when you come back it's their turn. That's fair.
Also Expedition added so many ways to stack initiative that it was easy to always go first even with the penalty, so you could keep going first and attacking then leaving before anyone could move. That was obviously broken.

Yes, it was broken, much like ARs were broken before the concept of "unconditional special attacks" was invented for the sole purpose of depriving AR bursts of Smart module/goggles bonuses.

However, the fact remains that reasonable retreats, and not solely zone-camping, also aren't really an option in most scenarios (unless well out of enemy LOS).

Furthermore, and this is CRUCIAL: the zoned design of the game is used against the player, deliberately. Example: You neglected to enter stealth before zoning? BANG BANG BANG! Since zone transitions are weaponized by the game to the player's detriment, one can hardly blame the player for trying to weaponize them in turn. Turnabout is fair play.

The point I was making in that quote, though, is that Styg indeed does design the game around exploiters, save-scummers, and min-maxers, often to its overall detriment.

 

[Parabalus]

Any guaranteed location for the two new TC mentors?

 

[epeli]

Any guaranteed location for the two new TC mentors?

Should be a Psychosomatic Predation mentor in Zaman's lair and Motor-cognitive Transference one in the lunatic mall.

 

[Major_Blackhart]

Grenade launcher! That's something that could be a nice addition! Or explosive shells for shotguns. Why let 44 pistols have all that fun?

I genuinely think shotgun should get more ammo types though. At this point, you get hopper shot for light stuff, and that buckshot for anything else. Shot shells need some variety I think.

Also I want a chainsword.

 

[Blaine]

I genuinely think shotgun should get more ammo types though. At this point, you get hopper shot for light stuff, and that buckshot for anything else. Shot shells need some variety I think.

Slugs, hollow-point slugs, flechettes, incendiary shells, flashbang shells, and of course, mini-grenade shells all exist in real life.

So far, I've yet to think of a single reason to use a shotgun over an AR except for variety. ARs are good at short to high-medium range (no need to prioritize one over the other) and also have skinkillers and cankillers, more possible caliber (and caliber-specific ammo) types, as well as far more attachments.

Also I want a chainsword.

Same, dawg.

In other news, I've now played 1.1.5.7 long enough to notice that purchased and found/looted gear has finally been brought closer to parity with crafted gear. There's no doubt about this, because with >1,000 hrs. in this game, I know I'm not imagining things. Fantastic!

As should be the case (and the strength of crafting), if you want specific attachment and caliber combos (or armor tweaking), you'd better have a crafting skill. Otherwise, don't plan too closely around custom gear. Might as well mention I'm also ecstatic that the "upgrade unique weapons and armor" feature, which I (and others) have been wishing for for ages, has been implemented.

In even further news, my playthrough has been blessed:

 

[Spark Mandriller]

However, the fact remains that reasonable retreats, and not solely zone-camping, also aren't really an option in most scenarios (unless well out of enemy LOS).

I don't think that's really the case. If you leave an area and come back then everyone gets a turn before you can move again. That's exactly the same as if you hit the end turn button, and plenty of builds can survive that. If your build can't handle a single turn of enemy attacks then maybe you did something wrong? If you're making an ultra squishy character then you should at least be high damage so you can kill enemies before you need to run off. If you can't finish fights quickly and can't tank then what are you even doing?
Overall I prefer if Styg balances the game around min maxers. There are a lot of games that are designed for casual play that don't hold up if you optimise hard. It's nice to have one that isn't.

 

[Blaine]

If your build can't handle a single turn of enemy attacks then maybe you did something wrong? If you're making an ultra squishy character then you should at least be high damage so you can kill enemies before you need to run off. If you can't finish fights quickly and can't tank then what are you even doing?

It pays to think of new players, and lower-mobility builds. The inability to zone camp is a total non-issue for me—and again, this was only an example. In general, I agree that the ability to zone camp is bad.

Actually, while clearing out the Lurkers recently, I often used Shooting Spree's AP refund as a Running Spree in conjunction with Sprint to beat a super-fast retreat across large zones. It's probably the most retreating I've ever done. As a bonus, they often exit stealth (the greatest asset of the snipers and hunters) in order to give chase.

 

[Spark Mandriller]

It pays to think of new players, and lower-mobility builds. The inability to zone camp is a total non-issue for me—and again, this was only an example. In general, I agree that the ability to zone camp is bad.

Actually, while clearing out the Lurkers recently, I often used Shooting Spree's AP refund as a Running Spree in conjunction with Sprint to beat a super-fast retreat across large zones. It's probably the most retreating I've ever done. As a bonus, they often exit stealth (the greatest asset of the snipers and hunters) in order to give chase.

I don't think designing a game around new players who don't know what they're doing is a good idea. Half the reason people like Underrail is because the systems are usually pretty well designed*. Leaving in exploits because new players might need them seems like a bad idea in the long run. Maybe people will be happy at first, but then as they figure out how things work and notice the game is broken they won't enjoy it as much.

*I mean, usually. It also has shit like items which may or may not spawn in any given run and have completely hidden effects and insane activation conditions like HAVING EATEN RECENTLY what the fuuuuuuck

 

[Parabalus]

With the new TC option in DC, can you now indiscriminately kill Faceless and still befriend them?

How do you get past the new Coil Spider area in Core City? Killed them all and flipped all the switched / activated all the pillars, but several doors and the trap door are still sealed.

 

[lukaszek]

How do you get past the new Coil Spider area in Core City? Killed them all and flipped all the switched / activated all the pillars, but several doors and the trap door are still sealed.

did you try just opening those closed doors?
For those pernamently shut its static discharge that opens them. Perhaps you did miss something in the end. At this point you are interested only in pillars.

Once you find Phreak there you can call it a day

 

[Parabalus]

How do you get past the new Coil Spider area in Core City? Killed them all and flipped all the switched / activated all the pillars, but several doors and the trap door are still sealed.

did you try just opening those closed doors?
For those pernamently shut its static discharge that opens them. Perhaps you did miss something in the end. At this point you are interested only in pillars.

Once you find Phreak there you can call it a day

Missed the stairs up and the second level, for some reason the visibility in this area is trash for me.

 

[Parabalus]

How do you get past the new Coil Spider area in Core City? Killed them all and flipped all the switched / activated all the pillars, but several doors and the trap door are still sealed.

did you try just opening those closed doors?
For those pernamently shut its static discharge that opens them. Perhaps you did miss something in the end. At this point you are interested only in pillars.

Once you find Phreak there you can call it a day

On which map is the shortcut ladder?

It's that one with gangster and a pipe to the caves, went out and can't find it again.

 

[Blaine]

I don't think designing a game around new players who don't know what they're doing is a good idea.

I don't think designing a game around veteran players who have a full raft of metagame knowledge and who know exactly what they're doing is a good idea, either, but here we are.

There is a happy medium somewhere in between.

 

[jackofshadows]

Except gameplay on normal doesn't require any meta-knowledge and many people have successfully finished it blindly. What you're saying applies to DOM only. I don't know a single game that has had a better design in this regard.

 

[Parabalus]

No difficulty below DOM exists, they are myths.

 

[lukaszek]

How do you get past the new Coil Spider area in Core City? Killed them all and flipped all the switched / activated all the pillars, but several doors and the trap door are still sealed.

did you try just opening those closed doors?
For those pernamently shut its static discharge that opens them. Perhaps you did miss something in the end. At this point you are interested only in pillars.

Once you find Phreak there you can call it a day

On which map is the shortcut ladder?

It's that one with gangster and a pipe to the caves, went out and can't find it again.

its tile next to faceless forces in a cave with optional zoomer squad to dispatch. I think its merchants level but cant be sure. Ladder is in tight section in between walls. Once there AGI check should appear. Ladder itself should be visible, are you sure that you did exit it in first place?

 

[Parabalus]

How do you get past the new Coil Spider area in Core City? Killed them all and flipped all the switched / activated all the pillars, but several doors and the trap door are still sealed.

did you try just opening those closed doors?
For those pernamently shut its static discharge that opens them. Perhaps you did miss something in the end. At this point you are interested only in pillars.

Once you find Phreak there you can call it a day

On which map is the shortcut ladder?

It's that one with gangster and a pipe to the caves, went out and can't find it again.

its tile next to faceless forces in a cave with optional zoomer squad to dispatch. I think its merchants level but cant be sure. Ladder is in tight section in between walls. Once there AGI check should appear. Ladder itself should be visible, are you sure that you did exit it in first place?

Yeah, but couldn't find the area. Cheers.

Regarding charms, epeli has been trolling some more:

• Surely the activation condition for the psi beetle charm isn't "be near a mindshroom", "be near water tiles" or "be near other psionic characters" right
• Have you even tried kissing your charms after the second exe patch?
  Anyways, beetle charm is modified psi crit chance and resolve factor.
  The psi crit bonus is 5% modified by charm power factors.
  The resolve malus is 8% modified by charm power factors.
  
  No further insanity involved--this time. Food and fortitude just are something that Styg likes to thematically pair.
  
• Good luck.
  This may bias your expectations, but I think rathoundPaw, whiteCatPaw and dogPaw charms are scams.
  They are not part of the same code that governs hopperFoot, psiBeetleClaw, warthogFoot, burrowerTarsus, siphonerFoot, deathStalkerClaw, coilSpiderTarsus charm mechanics and there are no references to them anywhere in the game executable nor in dialog/zone/event/store/fragment files as far as I can tell.

 

[Blaine]

Except gameplay on normal doesn't require any meta-knowledge and many people have successfully finished it blindly.

No shit. Just about every single person reading this thread finished the game blindly to start with. One of my Steam friends to whom I gifted the game, and who normally doesn't even play RPGs, finished it blindly before the implementation of the automap.

However, new blood is scarce these days. It's been seven years since Underrrail was released, going on three since Expedition, and Underrrail was a niche title to begin with. What do you really know of the new player experience, now, after all these changes? You can't know it, and neither can I, so I can only speak in the abstract.

If there's anyone reading this thread who's playing Underrrail for the first time, I'd love to hear from you, not for the sake of this argument, but our of pure and genuine curiosity.

Some might say, "If only hardcore dominators are playing the game these days, who cares?" Personally, I want someone to be able to pick up Underrail for the first time in 2040 and have a great experience with it. This isn't just about us die-hard fans, or Styg, but about a great legacy.

 

[lukaszek]

Regarding charms, epeli has been trolling some more:

how are you testing resolve lol? It doesnt appear to be showing in combat stats.
Water tiles makes sense, coral mentions something about lost souls being attracted to water if you pass persuasion check

 

[Parabalus]

Regarding charms, epeli has been trolling some more:

how are you testing resolve lol? It doesnt appear to be showing in combat stats.
Water tiles makes sense, coral mentions something about lost souls being attracted to water if you pass persuasion check

Some guy in the thread is throwing >500 flashbangs at his feet, counting resists with/without the charm.

Missed one epeli:

• You're going to hate this.
  
  Warthog charm indeed changes TryResistByFortitude (and subsequently also TryResistByFortitudeEquivalentAttack), but its power should depend on time remaining on your current food buff. If it's less than 25%, the effect should be negative.
  Basically,
  >if remaining food duration > 0.25
  > bonus = ((food duration - 0.25) / 0.75) * 0.2 * charms power factor1 * charms power factor2 * warthog charm power factor
  >else
  > bonus = -((1 - food duration / 0.25) * 0.25 * charms power factor1 * charms power factor2 * warthog charm power factor)
  All the power factors are nominally between 0 and 1, except when they aren't.

 

[epeli]

epeli has been

Spoiler

Seriously, not all of those are from me.

 

[Parabalus]

What's this waste disposal facility in the sewers, via trapdoor in the initial area?

Anything worthwhile there? Random area? The gimmick is annoying.

 

[Parabalus]

How do you get past the new Coil Spider area in Core City? Killed them all and flipped all the switched / activated all the pillars, but several doors and the trap door are still sealed.

did you try just opening those closed doors?
For those pernamently shut its static discharge that opens them. Perhaps you did miss something in the end. At this point you are interested only in pillars.

Once you find Phreak there you can call it a day

On which map is the shortcut ladder?

It's that one with gangster and a pipe to the caves, went out and can't find it again.

its tile next to faceless forces in a cave with optional zoomer squad to dispatch. I think its merchants level but cant be sure. Ladder is in tight section in between walls. Once there AGI check should appear. Ladder itself should be visible, are you sure that you did exit it in first place?

Two zones left of merchant elevator.

Any stat check to skip the phone music puzzle?

 

[Blaine]

What's this waste disposal facility in the sewers, via trapdoor in the initial area?

Anything worthwhile there? Random area? The gimmick is annoying.

Randomly-available area with random loot, yes. I don't think there's anything specific there.

Is this your first-ever time playing Underrail, or just been awhile?