Underrail: The Incline Awakens

[Serus]

Ok, thanks guys. I must have mixed it with some other game or misremembered.

Critical Power tends to stack with everything, but I haven't used Sharpshooter for a long time, so I can't speak specifically for it.

Yeah, Crit Chance > 100% should be a waste to the best of my knowledge. (Unless you expect to have some debuff that brings it back down, that is.) Anyway, from some point on, better invest in critical damage bonus instead.

Depends. It's better if you want mathematically more damage, sure. However, reliability cannot always be so easily quantified. I'd certainly would prefer slightly less damage overall for a significant increase in reliability on high AP cost attacks. On many small attacks it doesn't matter much. Even more so if I ever tried ironman.


Sykar
Yes, i'm not a fan of SI either, it takes the meaning of "glass cannon" to a whole new level. But if someone is be able to first strike everytime then it makes sense. Kill everything before it kills you works in this game, as it does in many others. Still, i don't like it much, perhaps because i play RL so much and there glass cannons are not always a good idea.

 

[agris]

so the style of Lemurian vault doors is pretty... specific

maybe it's the psychic scar of seeing goatse as a teenager, but everytime I see this...

or perhaps that's a stretch?

 

[Parabalus]

Yes, i'm not a fan of SI either, it takes the meaning of "glass cannon" to a whole new level. But if someone is be able to first strike everytime then it makes sense. Kill everything before it kills you works in this game, as it does in many others. Still, i don't like it much, perhaps because i play RL so much and there glass cannons are not always a good idea.

Realistically with a lot builds it really doesn't matter whether you have 3/9 CON + 30%/100% hp, in many encounters if an enemy touches you, you are dead immediately or CC-locked to death.

 

[jackofshadows]

or perhaps that's a stretch?

It is a stretch.

 

[Trashos]

I am not disputing that reliability is important! But we were talking about exceeding 100%.
--------

At some point I went through a SI phase and kept playing SI builds. Extremely strong when on the attack, of course. But I would die here and there when the wind would happen to blow my way, so eventually I reverted back to non-SI. Except for Psychosis Psi, I will still play that SI-style next time.

 

[Serus]

Yes, i'm not a fan of SI either, it takes the meaning of "glass cannon" to a whole new level. But if someone is be able to first strike everytime then it makes sense. Kill everything before it kills you works in this game, as it does in many others. Still, i don't like it much, perhaps because i play RL so much and there glass cannons are not always a good idea.

Realistically with a lot builds it really doesn't matter whether you have 3/9 CON + 30%/100% hp, in many encounters if an enemy touches you are dead immediately or CC-locked to death.

Agreed, that's why it's not the best game to play ironman. I think it's only doable by surviving early game (restarting if needed) and then cheesing the hell out of it. Going for 100% resistances, etc... seems a logical choice. With permadeath You have to be able to survive if something goes wrong - and in a game as long as Underrail something eventually will. Anyone here on the Codex played and finished an ironman attempt?

What does "single-target ranged weapon" mean? Every firearm minus shotguns?

Aimed shot works for everything except shotgun if that's what you're asking

Thanks, i figured it out. It's not just Aimed Shot that is limited that way, apparently you can't Ambush anyone with a shotgun, lol. Maybe there are other feats i forgot.

 

[Trashos]

ironman

I agree that the game is not designed with ironman in mind, but it is doable.
I almost did it on Hard a long time ago, but eventually died in Arke. Now on Dominating I get close sometimes, but I am still relatively new to it and my builds tend to stumble eventually. I generally play soft ironman (counting number of deaths) and try to lower the number of deaths as much as possible, until I hopefully get it to zero some day.


From memory:
Yaz did it by throwing a lot of grenades.
Tygrende gave it a go, but I don't remember the results.

 

[Serus]

What do you think about this build. I don't know what i'm doing - which is fun. Never used melee, never went without psionic, i don't know how reliable are dodge and evasion as defensive mechanism - though i have uncanny dodge, this isn't random just limited in uses. Want too check parry + riposte combo. This is not meant for DOM, just normal or hard (on screenshot life on normal difficulty). I'm not changing a lot, just want some impressions.

Edit: forgot cheap shots.
Ok, melee no PSI, here i come.

 

[lukaszek]

Serus provide link instead next time.

Fancy footwork is enough, drop sprint
with movement pool provided by fancy footwork, uncany dodge is not needed. But then you want to get hit... But then uncanny dodge triggers before you get a chance to block I think
why so high dex? Why not str instead? Or con even
evasive manouver isnt that good
You obtain your combo pieces quite late into the game to have enough fun with it
THere is no cheap shots, got enough points for grenadier too.

Ahh I see, dex is for increasing parry chance. Still it doesnt play that well with dodging... Did you consider going shield route instead? Could increase survival with more con or dmg with str

 

[Spark Mandriller]

Your crafting skills are far higher than they need to be. 180 quality metal needs 144 mechanics, and you have 152 effective with no bonuses. After house bonus+engineer suit+hypercerebrix+Jon's special you have 203 (!!!). You could cut it way down and not lose anything. Electronics and tailoring can go down too. You can use the saved points to max out stealth or get enough lockpicking to open everything or go into chemistry. Something useful. I'm sure you can find something.

 

[Serus]

Serus provide link instead next time.

Fancy footwork is enough, drop sprint
with movement pool provided by fancy footwork, uncany dodge is not needed. But then you want to get hit... But then uncanny dodge triggers before you get a chance to block I think
why so high dex? Why not str instead? Or con even
evasive manouver isnt that good
You obtain your combo pieces quite late into the game to have enough fun with it
THere is no cheap shots, got enough points for grenadier too.

Ahh I see, dex is for increasing parry chance. Still it doesnt play that well with dodging... Did you consider going shield route instead? Could increase survival with more con or dmg with str

Why would i take more STR? 1 more for tungsten machette? Meh. And I'm not going higher that that, I could take 1 maaaybe 2 points from dex but not more. This is supposed to be a light swordsman (machette-man?). It could go to CON, that's a better idea. With so high crit damage on swords (~160% base i think) i like every point of crit chance.
You are right about uncanny dodge being counter-productive for parry+riposte. I'll drop it.
As to getting parry + riposte late, sort of but if i'm dropping uncanny dodge and sprint then i can squeeze them earlier.
I found the lack of Cheap Shots myself, this is a very good feat, would be bad to miss it.
Grenadier is good, i loved it on my temporal tincan but you can't have everything. Hard choice here.
True about sprint, probably not very useful here. My first game was a tincan and sprint is great there, even on a ranged tincan. I will drop it too.

Thanks for the post. It was insightful.

 

[lukaszek]

Why would i take more STR? 1 more for tungsten machette?

since you stated its your first melee char... each melee weapon provides different dmg increase %. Daggers/fists ditch str because dex provides them AP decrease. Thats not true for swords/hammers/spears. Of the 3 spears can maaaaybe go full dex dues to weird throwing mechanics around them.
Otherwise both str/dex can be used to scale melee skill. Since STR provides extra dmg increase its preferable. 7% for swords isnt laughable.

1 more for tungsten machette?

YES. You have critical power for a reason

Thats why im suggesting that heavy might go better for blocking swordman.
Light melee fighters go well with spears

 

[Major_Blackhart]

Cryo chem pistols are great against mutants. They must be vulnerable to ice, as I keep freezing them

 

[jackofshadows]

or perhaps that's a stretch?

It is a stretch.

(... of an anus) No one, really?

 

[Serus]

Why would i take more STR? 1 more for tungsten machette?

since you stated its your first melee char... each melee weapon provides different dmg increase %. Daggers/fists ditch str because dex provides them AP decrease. Thats not true for swords/hammers/spears. Of the 3 spears can maaaaybe go full dex dues to weird throwing mechanics around them.
Otherwise both str/dex can be used to scale melee skill. Since STR provides extra dmg increase its preferable. 7% for swords isnt laughable.

1 more for tungsten machette?

YES. You have critical power for a reason

Thats why im suggesting that heavy might go better for blocking swordman.
Light melee fighters go well with spears

I know what STR and DEX provides, the fact i didn't play melee doesn't mean I can't read.
Speaking of which, DEX provides 1% crit chance. Consider that swords have the biggest(?) base crit damage of all melee weapons by far and access to 2x great feats that further increase it. Surprisingly enough, AFAIK, the 1% crit chance should be more than +7% damage from mid-late game - at least for swords. This is also why I find STR swords counter intuitive. Otoh STR provides more reliable damage, so there is that. Consider further that Dex provides more advantages than STR other than damage.
STR for spears, that i would understand, critical damage is bad on spears so damage wise STR wins by far. Perhaps the feat Spear Throw is so good?

 

[Trashos]

Serus, I do not have much experience with Swords to give advice, but if you were looking for the most unreliable build in UR, I think you have found it! Flurry should give your fights a feeling of russian roulette.
(Doesn't mean it won't be fun!)

 

[lukaszek]

STR for spears, that i would understand, critical damage is bad on spears so damage wise STR wins by far. Perhaps the feat Spear Throw is so good?

spear throw is as weird as it gets.
Thrown spear is considered melee attack for all purposes - like feats and other effects.
Accuracy scales exclusively from throw skill - hence dex. You can even go 3str and not meet spear min STR requirements
STR still scales dmg, but on DOM there are very few enemies that can survive thrown spear at max range. Even most DOM bosses die to single throw. Since dmg scales with melee, you need melee skill max too.
I think going max dex is optimal because on DOM having max acc is crucial with those throw, while even with 3str enemies just die from single throw.

Speaking of which, DEX provides 1% crit chance.

You have sword carving effect which should be enough. Swords are not knives - you deal proper damage even with non crits.

anyway you should give up on swords and join knives master race. If you are reluctant you can use butcher knife which is basically misconfigured sword

 

[Serus]

STR for spears, that i would understand, critical damage is bad on spears so damage wise STR wins by far. Perhaps the feat Spear Throw is so good?

spear throw is as weird as it gets.
Thrown spear is considered melee attack for all purposes - like feats and other effects.
Accuracy scales exclusively from throw skill - hence dex. You can even go 3str and not meet spear min STR requirements
STR still scales dmg, but on DOM there are very few enemies that can survive thrown spear at max range. Even most DOM bosses die to single throw. Since dmg scales with melee, you need melee skill max too.
I think going max dex is optimal because on DOM having max acc is crucial with those throw, while even with 3str enemies just die from single throw.

Speaking of which, DEX provides 1% crit chance.

You have sword carving effect which should be enough. Swords are not knives - you deal proper damage even with non crits.

anyway you should give up on swords and join knives master race. If you are reluctant you can use butcher knife which is basically misconfigured sword

A propos knife master race, do knifers use expertise? early game crit chance isn't high and they do weak fast attacks so that would make some sense? later when crit chance rises it would become obsolete though. What's the consensus?

 

[agris]

or perhaps that's a stretch?

It is a stretch.

(... of an anus) No one, really?

 

[Trashos]

On my Knives build on DOM, I didn't take Expertise and I never felt it was a mistake.

 

[lukaszek]

A propos knife master race, do knifers use expertise? early game crit chance isn't high and they do weak fast attacks so that would make some sense? later when crit chance rises it would become obsolete though. What's the consensus?

basically knife either deals no dmg or a lot with crits. Go big or go home. Expertise numbers are just meh in comparison + you should be feat starved anyway.
Main thing when building a knifer is planning around enemies that are resistant - high physical DR and/or crit immunity. Especially on DOM.

 

[Serus]

I assume that high physical resistance is cared by Exploit weakness. Or electricity damage. Crit immunity, I'm not sure yet, but i'll figure it out. If a single enemy then lock him with cheap shots perhaps or cut-throat, it does massive damage without the need of a crit. This was not a problem on an AR build.
A propos, started as knifer in the end because I couldn't decide about the sword build. Knife is sort of simpler, at least it's dex all the way. I'm on a very serious level 3. The only issue i had is what to take was the third feat on levels 1-2 feat. Between Expertise and Conditioning but i finally went with Interloper. There was a funny discussion about it and i want to check it myself if it is useful at all. The best build is probably a stealthy melee to determine it.

 

[Parabalus]

Serus, I do not have much experience with Swords to give advice, but if you were looking for the most unreliable build in UR, I think you have found it! Flurry should give your fights a feeling of russian roulette.
(Doesn't mean it won't be fun!)

If your going swords be sure to take Temporal Manipulation, it makes misses far less punishing.

Even with DEX swords the damage is obscene, Flurry one-shotting nagas etc.

Main thing when building a knifer is planning around enemies that are resistant - high physical DR and/or crit immunity. Especially on DOM.

Just expose weakness or versatility elemental pistols. Or both.

 

[lukaszek]

I assume that high physical resistance is cared by Exploit weakness.

for most part, although expedition is a pain. What sucks most is long cd and single enemy nature of that skill. Hence you will have to move to

Or electricity damage

too weak. You will need energy edge for crabs. Then there are nagas that are just annoying since you will be waiting for expose weakness a lot while on cd.

Still, on knifer versatility >> expose weakness. lazor pistol uses mostly same feats you already have, so you will execute physical resistant enemies quickly.

Or you can use other tools that are on our disposal now - poisons and acid(make sure you go pirate route). On lower diffs than dom you can just push through with plasma grenades

cut-throat

that feat is weird... good against enemies you are already excelent against, useless otherwise. It is fun to have though. Double your fun by doing versatilty with mechanical pistols and pick execute

 

[ItsChon]

Does anyone have any experience with Plasma Pistols/Laser Pistols/Electroshock pistols? Are they viable without crit? How much perception to start seeing damage?