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Underrail: The Incline Awakens

Jason Liang

Arcane
Joined
Oct 26, 2014
Messages
8,574
Location
Crait
On DOMINATING I cleared the Ironheads walking to Core City after Depot A.

Also I cleared Lunatic Mall at level 8. Also on DOMINATING.

PSI made 95% of the combat a complete joke after Depot A.
 

Sykar

Arcane
Joined
Dec 2, 2014
Messages
11,297
Location
Turn right after Alpha Centauri
that doesn't sound.. fun

He is either lying or not being honest about how he did it. Lunatic Mall has a lot of high level enemies. Same with the Ironheads, a single enemy can murder anyone that low level in one single round. The only way for him to beat it that early is either not having played on Dominating or having read up on the cheesiest tactics and save scummed the shit out of the game. Either way, don't take him too seriously.
 
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Jason Liang

Arcane
Joined
Oct 26, 2014
Messages
8,574
Location
Crait
that doesn't sound.. fun

He is either lying or not being honest about how he did it. Lunatic Mall has a lot of high level enemies. Same with the Ironheads, a single enemy can murder anyone that low level in one single round. The only way for him to beat it that early is either not having played on Dominating or having read up on the cheesiest tactics and save scummed the shit out of the game. Either way, don't take him too seriously.
You can find the build I used as well as screenshots.

I researched my build, but I didn't "read up" on the game. I walked to Core City because I was trying to walk to Rail Crossing from SGS through the area controlled by the Lurkers. Then I was just scouting Upper Underrail from Core City by walking along the train tracks and came across Lunatic Mall, thinking it was a side area - I had no idea it was a close to endgame area.

The way I play, I like to kill everything in an area before moving on to the next. As for tactics, I just used my PSI skills. If there were too many enemies, I figured out how to restealth (versus the Ironheads) but normal restealthing doesn't even work in Lunatic Mall.

If you can't believe I cleared Lunatic Mall on DOMINATING at level 8 with my PSI/ Versatility/ Ambush character, it just means you have more to learn about playing PSI tactics. I have my screenshot as proof. You asked my citation, that's my citation. Can you clear Lunatic Mall with a level 8 Tin Can AR? Then try to figure out how to clear it with a level 8 character. How else do you learn to improve, except by challenging yourself to do so?
 
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0wca

Learned
Joined
Jan 27, 2021
Messages
549
Location
Not here
Playing expedition rn and I got a couple of questions:

1. What's the highest check for any skill? My used skills are almost all at 200+ now and I'm wondering if I'm just wasting points by now?

2. What do the numbers of the skills even mean? Is it like GURPS where there's a percentile roll under the skill number? If so, what does 200 skill points do that 100 doesn't?

3. Anything in particular that I need to do in the Nexus of Technology? I searched all floors but didn't find anything special (can't go to certain rooms due to lack of relevant skill)..
 

ciox

Prophet
Joined
Feb 9, 2016
Messages
1,439
Playing expedition rn and I got a couple of questions:

1. What's the highest check for any skill? My used skills are almost all at 200+ now and I'm wondering if I'm just wasting points by now?

2. What do the numbers of the skills even mean? Is it like GURPS where there's a percentile roll under the skill number? If so, what does 200 skill points do that 100 doesn't?

3. Anything in particular that I need to do in the Nexus of Technology? I searched all floors but didn't find anything special (can't go to certain rooms due to lack of relevant skill)..
https://www.stygiansoftware.com/wiki/index.php?title=Skills

Individual skill pages should have checks listed.
 

0wca

Learned
Joined
Jan 27, 2021
Messages
549
Location
Not here
Playing expedition rn and I got a couple of questions:

1. What's the highest check for any skill? My used skills are almost all at 200+ now and I'm wondering if I'm just wasting points by now?

2. What do the numbers of the skills even mean? Is it like GURPS where there's a percentile roll under the skill number? If so, what does 200 skill points do that 100 doesn't?

3. Anything in particular that I need to do in the Nexus of Technology? I searched all floors but didn't find anything special (can't go to certain rooms due to lack of relevant skill)..
https://www.stygiansoftware.com/wiki/index.php?title=Skills

Individual skill pages should have checks listed.

Thx. Although those lists are far from complete. I'll picked may more locks than there are listed there.
 

agris

Arcane
Patron
Joined
Apr 16, 2004
Messages
6,954
2. What do the numbers of the skills even mean? Is it like GURPS where there's a percentile roll under the skill number? If so, what does 200 skill points do that 100 doesn't?

I’m not an expert, but yes I believe it is GURPS-like, ie your skill values are nominally on a 100% basis. What >100% gives you, or really just high values in general, is the ability to overcome significant maluses to your roll. For weapon skills this is related to lighting, range, weapon str requirements, opponent dodge/evasion, and any debuffs you may have. This generally holds true for stealth too, with the addition of competing vs enemy detection.

For technical skills like LP, H it’s just that the dynamic range goes above 100. The only malus you may encounter is due to debuffs. Conceptionally, for these skills and persuasion intimidation chemistry mechanical etc, the effective challenge ceiling is a bit under 200 and values over 100 just represent increased difficulty. I think styg did it this way because it made balancing skills easier by keeping a common skill point pool. If non-combat skills only went up to 100, they would need a distinct SP pool to reflect the increase value per point.
 

Blaine

Cis-Het Oppressor
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Messages
1,874,809
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Roanoke, VA
Grab the Codex by the pussy
1. What's the highest check for any skill? My used skills are almost all at 200+ now and I'm wondering if I'm just wasting points by now?

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=843557165

This guide tells you exactly how to min-max every skill for pretty much every situation, including highest skill checks (and gradations of same; for example, you may wish to save points and pass up on the hardest locked containers and doors). It also describes each situation, so it contains SPOILERS.

Always max your primary damage skill, or skills, in the case of psi. On some builds, you may also wish to max Stealth, for broken-tier sneaking and/or to pad out Snipe damage.
 

epeli

Arcane
Joined
Aug 17, 2014
Messages
721
2. What do the numbers of the skills even mean? Is it like GURPS where there's a percentile roll under the skill number? If so, what does 200 skill points do that 100 doesn't?

I’m not an expert, but yes I believe it is GURPS-like, ie your skill values are nominally on a 100% basis. What >100% gives you, or really just high values in general, is the ability to overcome significant maluses to your roll. For weapon skills this is related to lighting, range, weapon str requirements, opponent dodge/evasion, and any debuffs you may have. This generally holds true for stealth too, with the addition of competing vs enemy detection.

For technical skills like LP, H it’s just that the dynamic range goes above 100. The only malus you may encounter is due to debuffs. Conceptionally, for these skills and persuasion intimidation chemistry mechanical etc, the effective challenge ceiling is a bit under 200 and values over 100 just represent increased difficulty. I think styg did it this way because it made balancing skills easier by keeping a common skill point pool. If non-combat skills only went up to 100, they would need a distinct SP pool to reflect the increase value per point.

Well, skills are not really GURPS-like... There is no difference between values below/above 100. Skills are just flat numbers that nominally increase by 5 each level for the PC and NPCs alike. It's a linear system that could be scaled up to any arbitrarily high value for skills and levels. Relative power of characters is checked in calculations involving 2 actors and PC-only skillchecks are roughly level-based, with high base ability scores allowing the player to outpace the level curve.

Combat skills and some others are compared against the adversary's skills. Attack/defense skill ratio is the core of the calculations, but higher skills often also help overcome other modifiers on top of the skill ratio like agris pointed out.
Ranged/aoe attacks vs evasion, melee attacks vs dodge, stealth and pickpocketing vs detection, trap detection vs traps, resolve vs mental debuffs and fortitude for physical ones. Those derived stats are basically just auto-leveled skills. You can't accidentally over-invest in combat skills since damage-dealing skills always increase your damage and you would have to be far above enemy skills to hit the cap on random rolls. Basic (skills only) calculation for ranged & melee precision -> https://underrail.info/junk/precision.html

One-sided skillchecks (dialog checks, crafting, lock opening) reflect the level of the content/zone, but that's not a strict rule. The devs adjust skillchecks to whatever they feel is appropriate. 5 skill points a level plus 10 extra points at first level. That's the basis of all level/skillcheck balancing.
 

0wca

Learned
Joined
Jan 27, 2021
Messages
549
Location
Not here
2. What do the numbers of the skills even mean? Is it like GURPS where there's a percentile roll under the skill number? If so, what does 200 skill points do that 100 doesn't?

I’m not an expert, but yes I believe it is GURPS-like, ie your skill values are nominally on a 100% basis. What >100% gives you, or really just high values in general, is the ability to overcome significant maluses to your roll. For weapon skills this is related to lighting, range, weapon str requirements, opponent dodge/evasion, and any debuffs you may have. This generally holds true for stealth too, with the addition of competing vs enemy detection.

For technical skills like LP, H it’s just that the dynamic range goes above 100. The only malus you may encounter is due to debuffs. Conceptionally, for these skills and persuasion intimidation chemistry mechanical etc, the effective challenge ceiling is a bit under 200 and values over 100 just represent increased difficulty. I think styg did it this way because it made balancing skills easier by keeping a common skill point pool. If non-combat skills only went up to 100, they would need a distinct SP pool to reflect the increase value per point.

Well, skills are not really GURPS-like... There is no difference between values below/above 100. Skills are just flat numbers that nominally increase by 5 each level for the PC and NPCs alike. It's a linear system that could be scaled up to any arbitrarily high value for skills and levels. Relative power of characters is checked in calculations involving 2 actors and PC-only skillchecks are roughly level-based, with high base ability scores allowing the player to outpace the level curve.

Combat skills and some others are compared against the adversary's skills. Attack/defense skill ratio is the core of the calculations, but higher skills often also help overcome other modifiers on top of the skill ratio like agris pointed out.
Ranged/aoe attacks vs evasion, melee attacks vs dodge, stealth and pickpocketing vs detection, trap detection vs traps, resolve vs mental debuffs and fortitude for physical ones. Those derived stats are basically just auto-leveled skills. You can't accidentally over-invest in combat skills since damage-dealing skills always increase your damage and you would have to be far above enemy skills to hit the cap on random rolls. Basic (skills only) calculation for ranged & melee precision -> https://underrail.info/junk/precision.html

One-sided skillchecks (dialog checks, crafting, lock opening) reflect the level of the content/zone, but that's not a strict rule. The devs adjust skillchecks to whatever they feel is appropriate. 5 skill points a level plus 10 extra points at first level. That's the basis of all level/skillcheck balancing.

So they're basically just two numbers compared to each other for opposed checks?

So basically I should always put all points into skills that have opposed checks and less in one-sided skills?

I've got like an effective 150+ for lockpicking and mercantile and the highest checks I'm getting are in the 110 range, so I think it's safe to say I don't have to put extra points in?
 

Major_Blackhart

Codexia Lord Sodom
Patron
Joined
Dec 5, 2002
Messages
18,454
Location
Jersey for now
So I just got thru Deep Caverns and Tchort on a single playthrough this Sunday. I think it took about two hours. I completely avoided the worms area, but still managed to read all the e-mails and messages in the residential block. I didn't realize, but apparently my Tin Can AR has enough strength to easily pass even harder tests with a little effort and a powerfist. So there you go.

Tchort I did three times, but I only activated my shield on the third one. Essentially I was fucking around and seeing if I could destroy or take out his limbs easily, etc.

Edit: So I got the Sormirbaeren slide and apparently even tho I destroyed their fragment I didn't beat defeat them. Despite me killing Magnus and their lead witch doctor (I left the bone guy and their blind guy alone). However, I only went after them before I descended to Acorn, and the remaining supplies for the expedition were down to nothing.

Did I wait too long or fail to meet the condition of defeating them another way?
 
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ciox

Prophet
Joined
Feb 9, 2016
Messages
1,439
I didn't think Deep Caverns would go that fast with the recent changes to components and power rerouting, damn.
 

agris

Arcane
Patron
Joined
Apr 16, 2004
Messages
6,954
Expeditions is giving me soul clap. I really want to dive into the lore but the relentless resource drain of the encounters and frustrating nature of the jet ski encounters (whether wyrms or humans) just makes it feel like a slog. And my guy is a ducking pro, he can end 6 ironheads in a single turn if he wants, but the style of encounters in Expedition seem to promote resource drain and fatigue.

not to mention the native fights. They are orthogonal to my character build.
 

Major_Blackhart

Codexia Lord Sodom
Patron
Joined
Dec 5, 2002
Messages
18,454
Location
Jersey for now
I didn't think Deep Caverns would go that fast with the recent changes to components and power rerouting, damn.

Well to get the gate part without actually going all over the place I essentially got strength 12 and wrenched out one or two of the parts of the previous gate.
 

lukaszek

the determinator
Patron
Joined
Jan 15, 2015
Messages
13,421
Edit: So I got the Sormirbaeren slide and apparently even tho I destroyed their fragment I didn't beat defeat them. Despite me killing Magnus and their lead witch doctor (I left the bone guy and their blind guy alone). However, I only went after them before I descended to Acorn, and the remaining supplies for the expedition were down to nothing.

Did I wait too long or fail to meet the condition of defeating them another way?
defeating means fully clearing a number of tiles/maps assigned to them. You know when you are in clear when lighthouse guy says that he can no longer see their fires. Bosses are not required, you can game the system by clearing easier tiles early
 

Trashos

Arcane
Joined
Dec 28, 2015
Messages
3,413
I am starting a new playthrough, first time with the latest version. I am already noticing graphical changes, not sure what I think about them yet. I think the inventories look slightly uglier now, but are easier to read, so I am OK with the change.

I am worried about the announced buffing of DOM bosses, We will see how it goes.
 

Trashos

Arcane
Joined
Dec 28, 2015
Messages
3,413
Dammit, is there a way to disable the flashing of the "Notes" tab every time I get a new quest? It is annoying. Was it like that in earlier versions? I do not remember it.

On the plus side, my loading times seem to be much faster now.
 

Serus

Arcane
Patron
Joined
Jul 16, 2005
Messages
7,116
Location
Small but great planet of Potatohole
I have 2-3 question and since the most active thread i'll ask here. I couldn't find definitive answers on the net.
1. Do I remember correctly, when crit chance is higher than 100% you can crit more than once and the additional damage stacks? Say 120% crit chance = 1x guaranteed crit + 20% chance for a second one?
2. What about feats that provide not % chance to crit but a guaranteed critical hit like Aimed Shot. Do they stack with crit chance?
3. Critical Power, does it work with other feats? Say, Sharpshooter?
 

ItsChon

Resident Zoomer
Patron
Joined
Jul 1, 2018
Messages
5,415
Location
Երևան
Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag.
1. Do I remember correctly, when crit chance is higher than 100% you can crit more than once and the additional damage stacks? Say 120% crit chance = 1x guaranteed crit + 20% chance for a second one?
As far as I know, I don't think you can get over 100% crit chance, and even if you could, I do not think this is a mechanic in the game.
2. What about feats that provide not % chance to crit but a guaranteed critical hit like Aimed Shot. Do they stack with crit chance?
Your critical hit chance is a chance to crit. If you use aimed shot, guaranteeing a critical hit, then your critical hit chance doesn't come into play at all.
3. Critical Power, does it work with other feats? Say, Sharpshooter?
Both feats work to increase your critical damage bonus. I don't remember whether or not they each determine their critical damage bonus based off of your unmodified critical damage bonus and then add their two separate bonuses to said base critical damage bonus to give you your final critical damage bonus, or whether or not they stack and their critical damage bonuses are roilled off of each other. If they do stack, there is the question of which feat is applied first and which feat is applied second.

Either way however, if you're taking one, you should be taking the other.
 

Serus

Arcane
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Joined
Jul 16, 2005
Messages
7,116
Location
Small but great planet of Potatohole
1. Do I remember correctly, when crit chance is higher than 100% you can crit more than once and the additional damage stacks? Say 120% crit chance = 1x guaranteed crit + 20% chance for a second one?
As far as I know, I don't think you can get over 100% crit chance, and even if you could, I do not think this is a mechanic in the game.
2. What about feats that provide not % chance to crit but a guaranteed critical hit like Aimed Shot. Do they stack with crit chance?
Your critical hit chance is a chance to crit. If you use aimed shot, guaranteeing a critical hit, then your critical hit chance doesn't come into play at all.
3. Critical Power, does it work with other feats? Say, Sharpshooter?
Both feats work to increase your critical damage bonus. I don't remember whether or not they each determine their critical damage bonus based off of your unmodified critical damage bonus and then add their two separate bonuses to said base critical damage bonus to give you your final critical damage bonus, or whether or not they stack and their critical damage bonuses are roilled off of each other. If they do stack, there is the question of which feat is applied first and which feat is applied second.

Either way however, if you're taking one, you should be taking the other.
Of you can have more than 100%. End game it isn't even that hard with some builds:
Case 1, sniper: rifle with fancy scope 24% + feats (Reckless + SI + Scrutinous) 44%, 59% with max specialisation + stim 15% = up to 98%. Add crit chance googles and a couple more i forgot.
Case 2, Ambush (feat) that can put you above 100% on its own. Hell, you can get not only over 100% but over 200% critical chance with Ambush combined with all other sources. Of curse in practice it would be a huge waste of time.
And those are the easy examples, it can be done on PSI Psychosis Psychokinetic too.
Obviously, you can't (at least I don't think so) have 100% critical chance permanently, it requires feats that only work in certain circumstances, consumables, etc...
That's why i was asking. I recall something about getting more than 1 critical hit damage bonus at once but perhaps that was from a different game that also allows to stack critical chance to more than 100%.

About Critical Power - yes, that was my question.
 

Trashos

Arcane
Joined
Dec 28, 2015
Messages
3,413
Critical Power tends to stack with everything, but I haven't used Sharpshooter for a long time, so I can't speak specifically for it.

Yeah, Crit Chance > 100% should be a waste to the best of my knowledge. (Unless you expect to have some debuff that brings it back down, that is.) Anyway, from some point on, better invest in critical damage bonus instead.
 

jackofshadows

Arcane
Joined
Oct 21, 2019
Messages
5,342
I have 2-3 question and since the most active thread i'll ask here. I couldn't find definitive answers on the net.
1. Do I remember correctly, when crit chance is higher than 100% you can crit more than once and the additional damage stacks? Say 120% crit chance = 1x guaranteed crit + 20% chance for a second one?
2. What about feats that provide not % chance to crit but a guaranteed critical hit like Aimed Shot. Do they stack with crit chance?
3. Critical Power, does it work with other feats? Say, Sharpshooter?
No, I'm afraid you've mixed up the mechanic with some other game.
See above so no.
Yes.
 

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