Fallout Underwhelmed by Fallout :(

[roshan]

Yes, it does. And there are other things. Like people turning into fucking supermutants and ghouls from radiation and abandoned research facilities guarded by angry robots would be the first thing that comes to mind. You cherry pick the most kitschy things from F2, while ignoring that the other 95% of the game is great and arguably better (quests, writing), while conveniently ignoring stupid shit from F1.

Theres a ton of stupid shit in Fallout 1. In addition to all the silliness mentioned above, and also the examples of really shitty dialogue:

The Vault Dweller replying "Thankx" to someone in Necropolis. Yes, the VD actually fucking says "thankx" even though it's pronounced the same way as "thanks" and therefore should just be spelled that way.

Or when you go to glow and encounter dead "losers".

Or when the Vault Dweller and one of the Blades spew random letters at each other and you're left wondering what the fuck that's all about.

 

[Nevill]

Nobody mentioned "C D E D B D Ducks" yet? Confused the hell out of me when I first tried the localized version. :D

 

[Sykar]

That is an explanation of what is happen, it is not a theme.


Uh, what? I don't even know how to respond to this. The *theme* of the Enclave is that non-pure humans should be purged so things can go back to their old glory. To reinforce this theme, locations should either show that people are people, mutated or not (Modoc and Vault City/Gecko do a great job of this) or show that the Enclave is right and that the people around are impure and deserve to be removed.

It shouldn't actually show the Enclave, are you just fucking with me?

Of course it is a theme. Even if it is cliche, it is a theme. I don't get what you are actually complaining about. The people in San Fran are people, are they not? What are you talking about? The Enclave is for most of the game irrelevant. You have little to no interaction outside of a random encounter in the desert, the chopper in Klamath, the mission for Salvatore and the well hidden transmission in the Gecko power plant.
Fucking with you? If I'd fuck with you you'd know it.
The Enclave only really comes into play as the real threat at the very end of the game, when the Brotherhood asks you to steal the Vertibird plans from Navarro. I really do not see a need that anything needs to directly or indirectly correlate to the Enclave. They are well hidden and have little to no contact to the rest of the game world.

Theres a ton of stupid shit in Fallout 1. In addition to all the silliness mentioned above, and also the examples of really shitty dialogue:

The Vault Dweller replying "Thankx" to someone in Necropolis. Yes, the VD actually fucking says "thankx" even though it's pronounced the same way as "thanks" and therefore should just be spelled that way.

Or when you go to glow and encounter dead "losers".

Or when the Vault Dweller and one of the Blades spew random letters at each other and you're left wondering what the fuck that's all about.

Just take the intro. The Mr. Handy advertisement is a clear indicator that the game is not 100% to be taken seriously. It's to some degree or another over the top and at times rather silly. FO 2 might have taken it to a higher level, but it certainly is not a new element purely introduced by it.

 

[tuluse]

Do realize something can be humorous and still be internally consistent?

 

[Sykar]

Do realize something can be humorous and still be internally consistent?

And let me guess, what is considered "consistent" is decided by you?

 

[Darth Roxor]

Fallout 1 is to Fallout 2 what Red Alert 1 is to Red Alert 2.

Red Alert 1 is a Cold War movie where the soviets finally unleash their sikrit uberwaffen upon the unsuspecting West. Red Alert 2 is a GI Joe comic book with tesla troopers, trained dolphins, jetpack dudes and desolators.

Doesn't stop any of the 4 games mentioned in this post from being great.

 

[tuluse]

And let me guess, what is considered "consistent" is decided by you?

Which is it, is Fallout 2 internally and thematically consistent or is Fallout 1 not because it's funny?

 

[Sykar]

Which is it, is Fallout 2 internally and thematically consistent or is Fallout 1 not because it's funny?

Both are mostly consistent. Inconsistencies are primarily tied to the "whacky" random encounters and some fluff.

 

[tuluse]

If you want to argue that Fallout 2 is consistent do so, don't tell me "there's jokes so you can't take it seriously".

I'm done anyways though. Since you can't seem to grasp having themes reinforcing what the Enclave is about is different from an Enclave presence in a location.

 

[Sykar]

If you want to argue that Fallout 2 is consistent do so, don't tell me "there's jokes so you can't take it seriously".

I'm done anyways though. Since you can't seem to grasp having themes reinforcing what the Enclave is about is different from an Enclave presence in a location.

And you do not seem to grasp that the Enclave for the most part is irrelevant and that the presence of the Enclave neither dictates theme nor mood of the game. Heck you have no problem swallowing inconsistent stuff like Ghouls and Fusion Batteries, but some cliched asian martial community in San Francisco bothers you due it not somehow not "representing the theme of the Enclave" whatever the hell that means actually.

 

[Darth Roxor]

San Fran is absolutely indefensible, though. I thought it was fucking weird and stupid even the 14 years ago when I played Fallout 2 for the first time and thought nazis with miniguns and black power armour were supercool villains.

 

[Sykar]

San Fran is absolutely indefensible, though. I thought it was fucking weird and stupid even the 14 years ago when I played Fallout 2 for the first time and thought nazis with miniguns and black power armour were supercool villains.

Why is it indefensible? It's not any less plausible or implausible as the Enclave.

 

[Rake]

Why is it indefensible? It's not any less plausible or implausible as the Enclave.

Plausible?Yes. But content wise compaired to New Reno or Vault City it was actualy kinda shity.

 

[Sykar]

Plausible?Yes. But content wise compaired to New Reno or Vault City it was actualy kinda shity.

That might be true, but it can be mostly skipped anyway so it's not a big deal. By the time you get there you should be done with about 80% of the game. Only Navarro, Tanker and Oil Rig left.

 

[granit]

Don't play old games in widescreen.. Buy an old (high-end model, people throw these away) 21" CRT and play on the intended resolution.

 

[Sykar]

Don't play old games in widescreen.. Buy an old (high-end model, people throw these away) 21" CRT and play on the intended resolution.

It looks a bit better in 800*600 for me on my Widescreen monitor.

 

[Infinitron]

Fallout 2's San Francisco was pretty...interesting...from a pacing perspective. It's supposed to be a pre-endgame location. And right before the endgame, the game forces you through this wildly out of place Shangri-La like area with unique art, mysterious Oriental music and colorful cults. Like some kind of tripped out calm before the storm.

To be honest, with some more thought, it might have even worked. I like that boldness.

 

[agris]

Fallout 2's San Francisco was pretty...interesting...from a pacing perspective. It's supposed to be a pre-endgame location. And right before the endgame, the game forces you through this wildly out of place Shangri-La like area with unique art, mysterious Oriental music and colorful cults. Like some kind of tripped out calm before the storm.

To be honest, with some more thought, it might have even worked. I like that boldness.

I liked it too, but I didn't. If there was more depth to the area, and a bit less 'big trouble in little china' (which I love) vibe, it could have been better.

 

[t]

Fallout 1 is to Fallout 2 what Red Alert 1 is to Red Alert 2.

Red Alert 1 is a Cold War movie where the soviets finally unleash their sikrit uberwaffen upon the unsuspecting West. Red Alert 2 is a GI Joe comic book with tesla troopers, trained dolphins, jetpack dudes and desolators.

Doesn't stop any of the 4 games mentioned in this post from being great.

You have two modes of typing, right? When you actually care about punctuation and when you don't (which signifies trolling).

 

[Gnidrologist]

Again, it's a question of scope. Adding more martial arts attacks - great and fitting. Having a kung-fu city where the Dragon is fighting Lo Pan because a submarine crashlanded there 160 years ago is silly.

What the fuck is ''kung fu city''? It was a city, where some martial arts guys lived and organized tournaments sometimes. You keep repeating that combination of words as if it means something else. Dragon and Lo Pan were people, no? Or was there an actual dragon?

Cults? Yes. Like the Followers of the Apocalypse. A very specific pre-war cult that could only exist in a pre-war society and would never survive the apocalypse? No.

''No'' what? What's your point? That there can or cannot be cults in post-apo?

You could but you'd be wrong because it's based on A Canticle for Leibowitz, a book written in the 50s and depicting a post-apocalyptic future.

So you have read every fucking sci-fi book written in 50s to assure what is and isn't fitting to setting? Can you 100% guarantee that there weren't sentient talking monsters or mobsters in none of them? I'm sure you can.

I don't see them as more advanced than the pre-war world.

At the same time you whine about NCR having access to some assets of advanced pre-war technology. Some consistency from your part.

Well, if you think that talking animals are all fine and dandy, I won't try to convince you otherwise. As for "muty orcs', ever heard of the Hulk? He's huge, he's green, high STR, low INT, created by the gamma radiation (the super soldier serum was also mentioned somewhere).

Other super heros were also from 50s and a lot of them turned that way because of exposure to some toxic stuff. Would it be okay to have Batman in Fallout?

I've never claimed that Fallout's setting was absolutely perfect and didn't have a single flaw. A thief in a PA environment is not out of place. The British accent/slang is. Compared to things out of a place in FO2 the accent is a very minor thing (much like the British accents in Rome the TV show).

He's not just a thief with british accent, he's fucking Robin Hood, you twit and if he is just a minor part of F1 then so are some silly homages in F2.

 

[tuluse]

Fallout 2's San Francisco was pretty...interesting...from a pacing perspective. It's supposed to be a pre-endgame location. And right before the endgame, the game forces you through this wildly out of place Shangri-La like area with unique art, mysterious Oriental music and colorful cults. Like some kind of tripped out calm before the storm.

To be honest, with some more thought, it might have even worked. I like that boldness.

I actually think a Chinese only settlement could work very well in Fallout, covering themes like racism, xenophobia, isolationism (maybe they kept speaking Chinese!). Especially since near the end of the second game the player will probably be pretty comfortable with how the world is working, it could be used to throw them off a bit.

However, San Francisco doesn't work.

 

[tuluse]

And you do not seem to grasp that the Enclave for the most part is irrelevant and that the presence of the Enclave neither dictates theme nor mood of the game. Heck you have no problem swallowing inconsistent stuff like Ghouls and Fusion Batteries, but some cliched asian martial community in San Francisco bothers you due it not somehow not "representing the theme of the Enclave" whatever the hell that means actually.

How are ghouls or fusion batteries inconsistent in the Fallout universe?

 

[Infinitron]

I actually think a Chinese only settlement could work very well in Fallout, covering themes like racism, xenophobia, isolationism (maybe they kept speaking Chinese!). Especially since near the end of the second game the player will probably be pretty comfortable with how the world is working, it could be used to throw them off a bit.

However, San Francisco doesn't work.

Doesn't have to be Chinese only. The idea that the only white people who survived in San Francisco after the bomb were the Scientologists was actually kind of subversive and bold. It had potential.

I liked how the Chinese inhabitants said "You look like a Hubologist." when you passed by them.

 

[Gnidrologist]

Fallout 1 has a thematic consistency that it's sequel does not have. You could have stupid stuff in the game if it survived some kind of higher purpose. Fans might even have gone along with it. Having a kung-fu town doesn't serve any higher purpose though, it just seemed like a cool thing so they put it in.

It doesn't help that San Fran feels like it's only 1/3 done.

So, every location of the game world should serve as a backdrop for the main quest of protagonist. I thought Fallout is actually good that it's not player centric. Most places don't give a shit about you and there are no plot progression or people related to your glorious quest. Only biodrone would be upset about that.

What i would actually agree that quests in Sanfran were kinda meh and i don't remember any memorable characters there either. But ''higher purpose''...? lel

 

[Sykar]

How are ghouls or fusion batteries inconsistent in the Fallout universe?

Because they make no sense. Either they should writhe in agony by the falling apart of flesh, or they do not feel anything and probably would commit suicide or go insane. Furthermore how are they sustained for several hundred years? A damn virus doesn't explain it. Ultimately they are just a throwback to fantasy ghouls with a twist. That's it.
Fusion batteries are so much more advanced than anything else that it is quite a stretch to imagine them into a near future post apocalyptic setting, same goes for plasma. That kind of tech is something you would not expect in a near future post apocalyptic scenario, yet there it is. It's something you'd expect more in a game in a universe like Star Craft, Star Wars or Star Trek. Certainly not Fallout. Even Lasers are a stretch.

All in all the Fallout series is an amalgam of several themes and motives so how does a small asian community regardless how cliche break it? Especially considering how little of the entire game they are present, which is less than 5%.

I actually think a Chinese only settlement could work very well in Fallout, covering themes like racism, xenophobia, isolationism (maybe they kept speaking Chinese!). Especially since near the end of the second game the player will probably be pretty comfortable with how the world is working, it could be used to throw them off a bit.

However, San Francisco doesn't work.

Why would it have to be that way? Your suggestions would maybe make sense if they'd play a big part of the story. As it stands they are an exotic side area and nothing more, so I do not see why we would need such extension to such a tiny portion of the game.