Fallout Underwhelmed by Fallout :(

[Ninjerk]

Is there a point you're trying to make there? Hint: it's not the submarine presence that rubbed me the wrong way.

Maybe you're just not EXTREME enough to blow up toilets and enter the dragon

 

[tuluse]

Fallout is set in the 50s retro future. FEV and radiation mutations, retro-future looking robots guarding old research facilities fit that future. Gangsters straight out from the 30s, kung-fu fighters, yakuza with ninja swords, ghosts, scientologists do not.

Some people care about settings, some don't. Those who don't, who see the setting in the most generic terms (like post-apocalyptic America - anything goes!) would always prefer FO2 to FO1 because the former offers more content and scope. Those who care about the setting and consistency would prefer FO1. Both are very good games.

I have to disagree with you, it's not just the setting that's worse.

Fallout 1 has a thematic consistency that it's sequel does not have. You could have stupid stuff in the game if it survived some kind of higher purpose. Fans might even have gone along with it. Having a kung-fu town doesn't serve any higher purpose though, it just seemed like a cool thing so they put it in.

It doesn't help that San Fran feels like it's only 1/3 done.

 

[Sykar]

I have to disagree with you, it's not just the setting that's worse.

Fallout 1 has a thematic consistency that it's sequel does not have. You could have stupid stuff in the game if it survived some kind of higher purpose. Fans might even have gone along with it. Having a kung-fu town doesn't serve any higher purpose though, it just seemed like a cool thing so they put it in.

It doesn't help that San Fran feels like it's only 1/3 done.

What purpose does Junktown serve? Just another shit hole in the wastes.

 

[FeelTheRads]

Goddamnit, man, you are stupid.
So, everything in FO2 fitted and was just fine. Cool. What do you think about FO3, then? Anything that shouldn't be there and why not?

 

[tuluse]

What purpose does Junktown serve? Just another shit hole in the wastes.

It demonstrates growing pains as society is emerging again. Showing petty conflict that the Master wants to put an end to.

 

[hiver]

Is there a point you're trying to make there? Hint: it's not the submarine presence that rubbed me the wrong way.

Thats not what your sentence said.

My point is as before, 5% of the content (and thats a very generous figure) does not make Fallout 2 a lesser Fallout game.

The core principles of the Fallout design are as pure as the original and the setting is not distorted by those additional 5% which, for the most part is just superficial stuff, like the "kung fu" in San Fran.
Or those 4-5 character models with fedoras and tommy guns. Or those random encounter "yaluuzas".

They are all either excusable, or tolerable. Because the 95% of the game is pure FEV.


What you are really saying is that I do not care for the Fallout setting... and that Fallout 2 is on the same level as that shit bethesda made.

Them are fighting words VD.


You cant just go around and claim that. Especially when most of what you say is clearly your own subjective reaction - which i said i do understand numerous times.

 

[hiver]

Fallout 1 has a thematic consistency that it's sequel does not have.

Prove it. Theres the list of locations. Telll me which ones are inconsistent - explain why - and how much of the whole game that is.

 

[Darkzone]

What purpose does Junktown serve? Just another shit hole in the wastes.

Yes that is true it is just a shit hole in the wastes, and it is good so, because that is how it should be.

 

[tuluse]

Prove it. Theres the list of locations. Telll me which ones are inconsistent - explain why - and how much of the whole game that is.

I already gave you the example of San Fran. Kung-fu town has no themes relating to the Enclave (either that people are people and you shouldn't care about mutations or that the Earth should be wiped clean again [which by the way is another problem with Fallout 2, they never give any support for the Enclave's goal. While the Master is completely insane at least "ending conflict" is a noble goal]). Plus it doesn't show the 3 way rivalry with New Reno/NCR/Vault City either. Those factions represent various amounts of order and freedom and that is not explored at all in. It's just Asian stereotypes with some half backed quests.

 

[Vault Dweller]

Thats not what your sentence said.

The sentence said:

"Having a kung-fu city where the Dragon is fighting Lo Pan because a submarine crashlanded there 160 years ago is silly."

In other words, the issue is the retarded kung-fu city that doesn't fit and the "...but ...but the Chinese submarine!" explanation doesn't make any sense.

What you are really saying is that I do not care for the Fallout setting... and that Fallout 2 is on the same level as that shit bethesda made.

Setting-wise? Yes. Fortunately, they had better designers and writers.

You cant just go around and claim that. Especially when most of what you say is clearly your own subjective reaction - which i said i do understand numerous times.

Then what are we arguing about?

 

[Vault Dweller]

I have to disagree with you, it's not just the setting that's worse.

Fallout 1 has a thematic consistency that it's sequel does not have. You could have stupid stuff in the game if it survived some kind of higher purpose. Fans might even have gone along with it. Having a kung-fu town doesn't serve any higher purpose though, it just seemed like a cool thing so they put it in.

It doesn't help that San Fran feels like it's only 1/3 done.

I agree with you but I file "thematic consistency" under setting.

 

[tuluse]

I agree with you but I file "thematic consistency" under setting.

Well I want to differentiate them because New Reno keeps the thematic consistency, showing society becoming super degenerate with absolute freedom in contrast with NCR and Vault City, but it's still stupid setting wise.

 

[hiver]

I already gave you the example of San Fran. Kung-fu town has no themes relating to the Enclave (either that people are people and you shouldn't care about mutations or that the Earth should be wiped clean again [which by the way is another problem with Fallout 2, they never give any support for the Enclave's goal. While the Master is completely insane at least "ending conflict" is a noble goal]). Plus it doesn't show the 3 way rivalry with New Reno/NCR/Vault City either. Those factions represent various amounts of order and freedom and that is not explored at all in. It's just Asian stereotypes with some half backed quests.

That does not answer my question.

Therefore it doesnt prove your declarative statement.

Fallout 1 has a thematic consistency that it's sequel does not have.

Try again.

Setting-wise? Yes.

prove it, moron. or otherwise shove that idiotic opinion back where it came out of.


also,

"Having a kung-fu city where the Dragon is fighting Lo Pan

that was not the whole city, just a small sub quest or a part of San fran.

 

[tuluse]

You want me to go through each location of Fallout and show they're thematically consistent with the overall game?

Sorry Hiver, but this is video game argument on the internet, I'm not putting that much work in.

 

[hiver]

You know what that means as well as i do tuluse.


And no, i asked you to tell me which of the locations are inconsistent - and why - and how much of the whole that is.

I thought you understood english but i guess extreme emotional engagement makes retards out of the best around here.

 

[Vault Dweller]

Pretty much. I've explained my position and I don't have time to argue with you or anyone else for pages (we're on a tight schedule at the moment). You don't like my explanation and think that I'm a moron? I guess I'll have to learn to live with it.

 

[ZagorTeNej]

The argument I'd make in favor of Fallout 2's setting and lore, if I had to, is that Fallout 1 was such an embryonic, minimalistic game, that the direction Fallout 2 took with the setting is just as legitimate as any other.

Don't understand this argument. Even if seen as a prototype/template for such a type of game, suffering in low amount of content and reactivity compared to it's successor, an indie type game etc. Fallout's setting/theme/tone is pretty well/clearly defined, don't see why the two are automatically correlated.

What I'm trying to say, there was something there for Fallout 2 to deviate from, it wasn't undefined.

 

[hiver]

Pretty much. I've explained my position and I don't have time to argue with you or anyone else for pages (we're on a tight schedule at the moment). You don't like my explanation and think that I'm a moron? I guess I'll have to learn to live with it.

You will.

You havent explained shit, just made a bunch of indefensible empty declarations.

Since you cannot support your declarations by anything else then "Its my opinion hurr durr!" they are irrelevant to anything.
Saying that setting wise fallout 2 and bethesda shit are the same is what makes you a cheap moron. Not me.

 

[Commissar Draco]

Fallout 13 was not part of behavioral experiment which was setup to study the possibility of not warp interstellar flight using generations ships; someone made clerical error and shipped water chips to Vault 8 (Vault City) while Vault 13 got a spare GECK instead. Vault 13 Population was meant to be a control group and was handy to test improved EFV on them since they were pure strain humans but not Enclave citizens... And I thought all this US government doing experiments on its own people far fetched but it was in nighties before Kwan started to kill people on mass scale using predator drones and cruise strikes including US citizens without bothering with such silly things of the past like due process. Fallout probably proselytized even Kwan nemesis properly and the US police is militarizing almost to the point FNV source of combat armors for rangers prewar LAPD was.

Fallout 1 and 2 are equally great and silly Fallout 2 has just much more meat on the bones.

 

[Vault Dweller]

Since you cannot support your declarations by anything else then "Its my opinion hurr durr!" they are irrelevant to anything.

What you're trying to say is that you've read my arguments but disagreed with them and now you wish to debate them for the next 20 pages. Usually, you don't have to ask me twice, but I'm busy at the moment, so you'll have to forgive me.

 

[hiver]

I know you are busy, you would better spend your time improving AoD - including that convoluted fake and forced "ambush" (i know it can be won, i did it - but it doesnt mean its any less fake and forced) - in Teron thief quest string - then trying to tell me what i am saying.

Your arguments do not hold any water. Those are all just declarative statements that are easy to prove wrong - which i did - and you havent backed up by anything except saying "well thats my opinion".

 

[laclongquan]

It doesn't help that San Fran feels like it's only 1/3 done.

San Fran is the biggest city in East Coast Fallout 2. how much more do you want to add to create the the impression that it's bigger?
The Downtown area which is one humongous town
The Dock and tanker
The Steel Palace
The hubologist base
The mini base of BOS.

What's more do you want?

 

[Sykar]

It demonstrates growing pains as society is emerging again. Showing petty conflict that the Master wants to put an end to.

San Fran shows how a immigrant chinese could build up after the war. So what's the argument again?

I already gave you the example of San Fran. Kung-fu town has no themes relating to the Enclave (either that people are people and you shouldn't care about mutations or that the Earth should be wiped clean again [which by the way is another problem with Fallout 2, they never give any support for the Enclave's goal. While the Master is completely insane at least "ending conflict" is a noble goal]). Plus it doesn't show the 3 way rivalry with New Reno/NCR/Vault City either. Those factions represent various amounts of order and freedom and that is not explored at all in. It's just Asian stereotypes with some half backed quests.

Why does it have to be? Why should it be? The Enclave is hidden and has no current interest in a presence in San Francisco so that argument makes no sense.Also, Fallout is full of stereotypes. Super Mutants and Brotherhood of Steel being 2 of the biggest.

 

[hiver]

Those are not "immigrant Chinese" but shipwreckers of a submarine which is based directly on the "On the beach" movie from 1959 which is a staple of post apocalytic genre.

 

[tuluse]

San Fran shows how a immigrant chinese could build up after the war. So what's the argument again?

That is an explanation of what is happen, it is not a theme.

Why does it have to be? Why should it be? The Enclave is hidden and has no current interest in a presence in San Francisco so that argument makes no sense.Also, Fallout is full of stereotypes. Super Mutants and Brotherhood of Steel being 2 of the biggest.

Uh, what? I don't even know how to respond to this. The *theme* of the Enclave is that non-pure humans should be purged so things can go back to their old glory. To reinforce this theme, locations should either show that people are people, mutated or not (Modoc and Vault City/Gecko do a great job of this) or show that the Enclave is right and that the people around are impure and deserve to be removed.

It shouldn't actually show the Enclave, are you just fucking with me?