Fallout Underwhelmed by Fallout :(

[Horus]

Gangsters straight out from the 30s, kung-fu fighters, yakuza with ninja swords, ghosts, scientologists do not.

I agree with the others but Gangsters straight out from the 30's is not that strange considering the main culture of the setting was atomic 50s where most tradional mafioso still wore slick italian suits as if it was 30's.

 

[tuluse]

Because they make no sense. Either they should writhe in agony by the falling apart of flesh, or they do not feel anything and probably would commit suicide or go insane. Furthermore how are they sustained for several hundred years? A damn virus doesn't explain it. Ultimately they are just a throwback to fantasy ghouls with a twist. That's it.

So they're totally consistent in the Fallout universe, which is not reality if you hadn't noticed.

Fusion batteries are so much more advanced than anything else that it is quite a stretch to imagine them into a near future post apocalyptic setting, same goes for plasma. That kind of tech is something you would not expect in a near future post apocalyptic scenario, yet there it is.

They're not consistent because you didn't expect them? Again, Fallout is not reality. Just in case you didn't notice. I was asking about Fallout's internal consistency, not it's consistency with reality.

All in all the Fallout series is an amalgam of several themes and motives so how does a small asian community regardless how cliche break it? Especially considering how little of the entire game they are present, which is less than 5%.

Who said it "breaks" anything? I said it doesn't support the themes of the game. If you disagree with these please explain what overall themes San Francisco supports.

"It's just a small part of the game" doesn't cut it when it's an entire location.


Gnidrologist

What does thematic consistency have to do with being player centric?

 

[hiver]

I agree with the others but Gangsters straight out from the 30's is not that strange considering the main culture of the setting was atomic 50s where most tradional mafioso still wore slick italian suits as if it was 30's.

Even if its nothing strange and its all excusable those were not the best choices possible. Yet even so, all that taken together is less then 5% of the game and therefore matters fuck all when it comes to Falloutness of the Fallout 2.

 

[Zombra]

One upside to this thread ... it inspired me to reinstall Fallout and spend some time playing it last night. I was expecting it to be way more clunky and dated than it really is. Gameplay holds up fine. I barely remember any of the content, so it's been fun checking it out again. I haven't been underwhelmed at all.

It has been a little surprising how quick and small everything is though. I guess 20 years ago time moved slower in my brain, so Shady Sands and the Raiders seemed way more epic than they do now, like I bet I took days on those locations when I was a kid. Junktown? Talk to Killian, kill an assassin, get the bug, talk to Gizmo, talk to Killian, Kill Gizmo, town over. Wow, that was fast! Nothing wrong with that. Looking forward to buzzing through the rest.

 

[hiver]

Why would you play Fallout when you have that awesome new perfection of the game to play again and again and again?

If it was up to me i would have you and the rest of your palls strapped down to a chair and Clockwork Orange forced to replay and look at it all until whats left of your brains drains through your noses.

I actually think a Chinese only settlement could work very well in Fallout, covering themes like racism, xenophobia, isolationism (maybe they kept speaking Chinese!).

What... you think those are the core themes of Fallout? Post apocalyptic themes?

And shouldnt you stop repeating those declarations about F2 being all anti Fallout seeing how you refused to actually support them by anything? Its a bit surprising, i didnt think you had it in you, btw. But it just goes to show.

 

[Jaesun]

Junktown? Talk to Killian, kill an assassin, get the bug, talk to Gizmo, talk to Killian, Kill Gizmo, town over. Wow, that was fast! Nothing wrong with that. Looking forward to buzzing through the rest.

Uh you missed a LOT more in Junktown....

 

[Zombra]

Well, maybe I exaggerated a little for effect

 

[Awor Szurkrarz]

Even if its nothing strange and its all excusable those were not the best choices possible. Yet even so, all that taken together is less then 5% of the game and therefore matters fuck all when it comes to Falloutness of the Fallout 2.

Munchkinfesting was a much worse sin, though. Also, all these fucking RL weapons. Also, fucking car on a road-less desert.

 

[Grim Monk]

Also, all these fucking RL weapons.

A legitimate point, although one can point out that Fallout 1 already had "Desert Eagles" in it...
http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/Desert_Eagle_.44_(Fallout)

Also, fucking car on a road-less desert.

Roman Roads existed for ages after the empire fell.
Why do you think the American road network would suddenly vanish.
Sure they would be crumbling and in bad condition but they would still exist.

First the "No Farms to feed New Reno"* rubbish, nowthis...

Its like everything has to be explicitly shown on screen...
The developers can't even rely on you guys to draw simple conclusions as to how things would work logically in the game world...


*(I repeat myself: In Fallout 1 Junktown also had no farms show in game, yet no rants from you guys about them "starving to death"...)

 

[tuluse]

The no farms thing is dumb, I agree. Cities are obviously abstracted only letting you interact with the "interesting" parts.

 

[pippin]

Real life guns are great, especially if your game happens to be set in a version of the real world. I'd much prefer having actual Magnums or AKs rather than the run of the mill and nameless revolver or Assault Rifle.

 

[laclongquan]

Enclave is the big bad because motherfuckers raid MAH TRIBE, enslave them all, and killed my dopey shaman. He's a dopey idiot but he's MAH SHAMAN~ Nobody do that shit to me and mine and live to tell the tale. I will BLOW YOU SKYHIGH. So spaketh Grampy Bone.

Kill some farmer in the desert? Bah who care. Drug deal with Salvatore of New Reno? Interesting, mah boyz get a few lasez stuffs out of them but again, who care. Get trolled in Gecko plant? breath a little, you race your heart up too much.

But RAID MAH TRIBE? I groin-smashed many for less!

[disclaimer: there's been confused statement up top because Sulik is doped up with Psycho and Mentats. Again./disclaimer]

 

[roshan]

So Fallout 1... Someone mentioned Fallout 1 having better talking heads, they're really about the same. Fallout 1 has more talking heads but none of them really "converse" with you, they just give you the main quest of that particular area, and dialogue choices are Bioware style, with different options usually give you the same reply, probably to save on VO budget. I did most of Boneyard, again, there was an entire area (northwest boneyard) with absolutely nothing to do except recruit Katja and meet one of the former Vault Dwellers, funnily your VD doesn't even recognize or know him, and the dialogue doesn't ring true in any way. And stupidly enough rather than advise you he just gives vague clues about what happened to him. Still an interesting encounter though which is more than can be said for 95% of Fallout. The other 3 areas of the Boneyard have basically 3 quests between them (all of which are really just the same damn quest) so again, the usual wasting of time on nonexistent content. Went to the glow, got bored, decided to start a game of Fallout 2 and check out the restoration pack.

And wow, and it's almost a shock to the system how good Arroyo is compared to anything I've experienced in Fallout. Dialogue is professional (no "thankx") and flows well, there are a ton of witty and snarky things to say to Hakunin, the dialogue to exit the temple without a fight actually sounded convincing not like the mechanical checks in Fallout. Furthermore the dialogue doesn't have tons of nodes that make it end prematurely forcing you to start the conversation again from the beginning. Not to mention better gameplay overall, the choice of whether to punch or kick, plus there are more uses for traps in the Temple of Trials alone than almost all of Fallout 1. Fuck I can't believe I actually enjoyed the Temple of Trials and am having a blast in Arroyo, this is bloody ridiculous.

The quality gap between the two games is massive.

 

[Greatness]

The Temple of Trials is better than Fallout 1.

 

[laclongquan]

The starting area of F1 is a dark cave and you have to killing rats, if you havent forgotten~

 

[roshan]

From a "macro" perspective, it's silly. It makes no sense at all that people originating in a vault would suddenly do tribal architecture, and it makes no sense that they constructed a massive stone temple but live in huts. But I think pretty much everything in the Fallouts (or even any other RPG really) is silly and makes no sense from a macro perspective either. For example how Junktown found so many cars to barricade their town but for some reason cars cannot be found anywhere else. Or how Fallout 1 towns have more guards than civilians, or how you even have currency in such a setting, etc.

The starting area of F1 is a dark cave and you have to killing rats, if you havent forgotten~

The next quest after that is a cave full of radscorpions. And your first clue for the main quest is a dungeon with 3 levels filled with rats.

 

[Jick Magger]

I admit that The Master and his Super Mutant army were more interesting villains than The Enclave. They're intimidating the first few times you encounter them, but the lack of any truly menacing equivalents to The Lieutenant or The Master, alonv with any real motivation for their actions beyond "because eugenics" makes them alot less compelling.

 

[laclongquan]

The convo in Gecko plant scare the shit out of me. I was hovering on reload button for a while.

True true, the Enclave appear a little late and too few influence. Then again, it's why Fallout 2 is not about Saving the World/Destroy Evil narrative, it's about Saving My Homeland narrative.

As for the Temple, there's two things I have considered:
1. The Temple is an old, old architecture. Prewar, at least. Note, its location is in arroyo, with ready source of water, enclosed woods for gecko raising and farming. Very nice defensive site. As such, it's not built by V13 descendants.

2. Climate. It's hot and dry, man. Note the prevalance of corns. In hot condition you dont want to stay in stone building, it retain the heat and keep you cooked all day, and cold all night. Better to stay in huts, fresh and easy.

Also, tribal society is a most primitive but stable form of organization you gonna have.In a condition of low contact with outside it naturally arise. It's sociology/history 101, man~

 

[Gnidrologist]

What does thematic consistency have to do with being player centric?

What does ''higher purpose'' has to do with theme?

 

[Darth Roxor]

You have two modes of typing, right? When you actually care about punctuation and when you don't (which signifies trolling).

or do i

 

[Sykar]

So they're totally consistent in the Fallout universe, which is not reality if you hadn't noticed.


They're not consistent because you didn't expect them? Again, Fallout is not reality. Just in case you didn't notice. I was asking about Fallout's internal consistency, not it's consistency with reality.


Who said it "breaks" anything? I said it doesn't support the themes of the game. If you disagree with these please explain what overall themes San Francisco supports.

"It's just a small part of the game" doesn't cut it when it's an entire location.


Gnidrologist

What does thematic consistency have to do with being player centric?

What the hell is "thematic consistency"? There is no thematic consistency in the game because it already was a weird mix of like 4-5 different themes already in the first games. Yet you have no problem them throwing together several sci fi and fantasy elements yet because it's the second game somehow you get ape shit crazy because of a handful of Asians. Mind boggling, to say the least.

And why you are so fixated on the fucking irrelevant for 90% of the game Enclave?

 

[Sykar]

From a "macro" perspective, it's silly. It makes no sense at all that people originating in a vault would suddenly do tribal architecture, and it makes no sense that they constructed a massive stone temple but live in huts. But I think pretty much everything in the Fallouts (or even any other RPG really) is silly and makes no sense from a macro perspective either. For example how Junktown found so many cars to barricade their town but for some reason cars cannot be found anywhere else. Or how Fallout 1 towns have more guards than civilians, or how you even have currency in such a setting, etc.


The next quest after that is a cave full of radscorpions. And your first clue for the main quest is a dungeon with 3 levels filled with rats.

Keep in mind though that the events of Fallout 2 happen 70 years after the events in Fallout 1. 70 years is plenty to build a "sacred" place.

 

[Gnidrologist]

It's also plenty of time to degrade back to more primitive state given certain circumstances.

 

[Sykar]

It's also plenty of time to degrade back to more primitive state given certain circumstances.

Yep, no access to technology, just a dump in the middle of nowhere next to a mountain. The little technological knowledge the Vault Dweller had would have been insufficient to make a sort of Vault City 0.1. They would be most likely be occupied with just surviving.

 

[hiver]

As for the Temple, there's two things I have considered:
1. The Temple is an old, old architecture. Prewar, at least. Note, its location is in arroyo, with ready source of water, enclosed woods for gecko raising and farming. Very nice defensive site. As such, it's not built by V13 descendants.

Doesnt have to be. And it did kinda generally look like it had similar shape as the Vaults, together with those doors, but ofcourse it may have been just a coincidence.

In hot condition you dont want to stay in stone building, it retain the heat and keep you cooked all day, and cold all night. Better to stay in huts, fresh and easy.

errm no, its the other way around.

Also, tribal society is a most primitive but stable form of organization you gonna have.In a condition of low contact with outside it naturally arise. It's sociology/history 101, man~

Ofcourse, and regressing into "tribals" is one of the staples of post-apocalyptic sci-fi.