KickStarter Underworld Ascendant is a disaster

[Invictus]

This game is the poster child of you cannot polish a turd

 

[BEvers]

 

[rusty_shackleford]

how dare people be angry that we released an unfinished product

 

[Mikeal]

Fucking milenials ruining everything.

 

[luj1]

Infinitron shilling hard even after the game is dead, now that's some dedication. Good jew, good. *pats head*

 

[MasterLobar]

Instead of bashing the buyers of her sh*t game, maybe the community manager should ask herself why there has not one single positive thread on the Steam forum for weeks.

And could it be possible that it's not a coincidence that the forum is "flooded with angry people"?

Noooo...let's blame our sh*t on a conspiracy of disgruntled gamers. Well, it's Otherside, so no surprise here.

 

[MasterLobar]

Some interesting twist in this Steam thread:

https://steamcommunity.com/app/692840/discussions/0/1679189548072319990/

When confronted with their promise during the kickstarter

"Underworld Ascendant is a genuine part of the Underworld series. We have the rights to use all of the elements of the original Underworld games, except for the Ultima brand itself. The characters, monsters, settings, and stories from the original Underworld games are all available for us."

She responds:

"As I understand it, as the paperwork was reviewed during the project, it was strongly advised to avoid any Ultima-related creatures / names / places, etc." (emphasis added)

So the exact opposite of what they promised was true.

They told us they can use ALL Ultima content, but in reality, they knew they couldn't use ANY Ultima content at all. Or at least they knew that they didn't know if they can use any of it, because they had not "reviewed the paperwork" (who the f*** believes that??).

This is FRAUD. I would have NEVER backed UA if I had known that there would be no Ultima content in it.

This is no lapse. This was intentional lying. They knew the Ultima fans wouldn't back their project if there is no Ultima content. The backers gave them $800k to make a UU successor and they knew from day 1 they'd make a game based on silly Greek mythology.

So far, I thought they were just idiots who f**ked up. But no, this scam was the plan all along.

I'm boiling with rage.

 

[Alienman]

Pitchfork time?

 

[Doctor Sbaitso]

They could use the abyss, creatures and characters with the exception of Ultima specific lore, trademarks or characters part of the broader series. You are confused Lobar.

 

[Infinitron]

One of the reasons MasterLobar is so upset is because for years he held on to hopes that this game could end up being some sort of sequel to Ultima Underworld TWO, which had lots of Ultima-specific lore (and lots of lore in general): https://forums.otherside-e.com/t/underworld-ascendant-plot/9124

As I warned him back in 2016: https://forums.otherside-e.com/t/dialogues-in-early-modern-english/9246/14

 

[MasterLobar]

Doctor Sbaitso , I don't think I'm confused.

This is from the kickstarter page:

"Underworld Ascendant is a genuine part of the Underworld series. We have the rights to use all of the elements of the original Underworld games, except for the Ultima brand itself. The characters, monsters, settings, and stories from the original Underworld games are all available for us." (emphasis added)

https://underworld-ascendant.backerkit.com/faq

They said "games" (plural), i.e. both UU1 and UU2.

And here is UA's writer in a year later in March 2016:

"I think/hope you’ll find both the story and narrative system to be pretty compelling. There are also some deep hooks into the original games." (emphasis added)

https://forums.otherside-e.com/t/underworld-ascendant-plot/9124/3

He says "games" (plural), i.e. both UU1 and UU2.

They clearly used Ultima content/lore as a carrot to advertise their kickstarter, and that was a complete fraud.

 

[Nyast]

MasterLobar is obviously wrong. Here is proof: there are skeletons in the original Underworld. There are skeletons in Ascendent. Therefore they did use some of Ultima's Lore. CQFD. They didn't lie

Spoiler

Nah, I'm boiling with rage too..

 

[Curratum]

What can you do, though? OS are just a bunch of horrible, lying cunts and we're all fucked and that's the end of it.

The best thing you can do is police any future projects they try to push if they don't dissolve and adequately inform anyone interested what happened with UA.

 

[MasterLobar]

https://steamcommunity.com/app/692840/discussions/0/1679189548072319990/#c1679189548075815627

The last day we could launch in 2018 was November 15, and we had to take it or else give up on the project entirely.

WHY???

Sam, if you're reading the RPGcodex - and as a good community manager I assume you do - why this arbitrary deadline?

You mentioned it several times while always avoiding to give any explanation. You are hiding something.

I'd say one of the key takeaways from UA's development is [...] being more honest with the community.

Oh really? So, now you have a chance. Explain the arbitrary deadline to us.

 

[Nano]

Those are probably demands from 505, no?

 

[MasterLobar]

Those are probably demands from 505, no?

Why would 505 make such a demand?

The community manager has admitted that OS owners and management have been paying for everything since October 2018.

See my post from a while ago:

Community manager confirms OS owners/management are paying for UA development and updates since October 2018. So 505 pulled the plug before launch.

https://steamcommunity.com/app/692840/discussions/0/1769259642872066599/#c1769259642883439686

Remember the SEC filing I posted the other day which shows a total of 6 investors (almost certainly OS owners and management) poured $3.5 million in the company last fall. The "Date of First Sale" is 2018-08-31, so almost exactly the point where OS has now confirmed 505 stopped their funding.

https://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/1756400/000156761918004482/xslFormDX01/primary_doc.xml

That confirms what I suspected all along: OS owners/management paid for all the updates and the console version (and even the last month of development) themselves.

She affirmed this in the post above

upper management took some large risks investing personal funds into the game to even delay launch and give us more time.

https://steamcommunity.com/app/692840/discussions/0/1679189548072319990/#c1679189548075815627

505 isn't providing any funding since September 2018. They knew the game was unfinished. Why would they set an arbitrary deadline for launch and not allow OS to finish the game with their own money? (which is what they are doing now)

Just two more weeks and they could have had a functioning save system:

The Save Anywhere system took nearly two entire weeks of one engineer's time to do

https://steamcommunity.com/app/692840/discussions/0/1679189548072319990/#c1679189548075815627

It doesn't make any sense for 505 to force OS to launch the game in such a terrible state and instead of giving them a bit more time to iron out at least the worst bugs (without any additional money from 505).

OS should better come clean and tell us what the real reason for launching in November was.

 

[Gord]

It wouldn't be the first time a publisher made a studio launch their game in a clearly unfinished state (or a studio did so themselves) even when only a few more weeks might have made a big impact (not that it would have saved UA).

 

[MasterLobar]

In these cases, the studio usually asks the publisher to provide more funding to finish the game.

In the case of UA, OS agreed to do everything with their own money and they already had provided the necessary capital with the series A stock sale in August.

It wouldn't have cost 505 a penny to let OS work on the game for a few more weeks.

The launch deadline story doesn't make ANY SENSE AT ALL. The community manager is lying (or the management is lying to her and she parrots these lies in the forums).

 

[Gord]

I don't see much reason in these speculations, as we clearly lack necessary informations to reach any meaningful conclusion.
Whatever the ultimate reason, they were forced (or felt forced) to release in that sorry state.
OTOH, even almost half a year and 3 major updates later UA is still nowhere near what it should have been, so...

 

[Nyast]

MasterLobar: they already answered that many times. The reason they didn't want to delay is because they thought the game was in a good place to launch. They thought it was great. They didn't hear, for some weird unexplained reason, all their backer's complaints. They genuinely thought the launch would go well. You have no reason to delay when you think the game is ready and good !

Yeaaaaah right, hard to believe, but that's the official explanation.

 

[Gord]

Although some people from OS repeatedly admitted that it wasn't ready in various forum discussions.
Apparently not all of them got the memo regarding the official line of communication.

At times OS really gives the impression that the studio is pretty disordered - which might add to explain some of the mess UA ended up in.

 

[MasterLobar]

Finally, to address the questions about console, it was a part of our publishing deal with 505 Games.

https://steamcommunity.com/app/692840/discussions/0/1679189548072319990/?ctp=2#c1676938384240128723

Who told you so?

For OS, it's a totally nonsensical decision to throw more good money after bad and make a console version. It must be a contractual obligation.

 

[Doctor Sbaitso]

In these cases, the studio usually asks the publisher to provide more funding to finish the game.

In the case of UA, OS agreed to do everything with their own money and they already had provided the necessary capital with the series A stock sale in August.

It wouldn't have cost 505 a penny to let OS work on the game for a few more weeks.

The launch deadline story doesn't make ANY SENSE AT ALL. The community manager is lying (or the management is lying to her and she parrots these lies in the forums).

You are stepping over Celerity precipice.

You do not know what their considerations were and they have zero responsibility to share them. Their contract probably expressly forbids disclosing details.

 

[MasterLobar]

You do not know what their considerations were

Funny you are saying this when the community manager just confirmed my inference that they have a contractual obligation to make a console version.

Most of my hypotheses have been explicitly confirmed by the community manager over time. I provided quotes and links to her comments.

 

[BEvers]

For the record: I can no longer edit or delete the original post; any legal responsibility for its contents now lies with this site's administrators.