World of Darkness Vampire: The Masquerade – Bloodlines 2 from Hardsuit Labs

[Vaarna_Aarne]

Diablerie is the only established way that can lower Generation

Whatever happened to that one ritual of Assamite sorcery which could lower your generation?

Didn't even remember it. But honestly, as a six dot ritual from a splat From Marduk's Throat hardly likely. Also worth noting that the ritual takes at minimum 40 days to do and requires a rather perilous roll (and I would say has a major "THAT JUST RAISES FURTHER QUESTIONS" in regards to the ingredients and required equipment and so on). So unless we have access to a highly agreeable Assamite elder vizier with a lot of spare time, we should probably disregard the option.

The Anarch New Age ritual The Pursuit of Apotheosis is another one at five dots, but Generation lowering is not a standard function for it (only at Storyteller discretion since it's an unconfirmed rumor; it's basically just a way to apply boss buff because the whole thing is not something you should let your PCs pull off in the first place let alone munchkin with since it does generate XP).

 

[glass blackbird]

Anyway, my point is that assuming they actually have a reason in the story for you to stop being a thin-blood, that's probably enough of a story hook regardless, either as an overarching plot (since the thin-bloods are kind of a big deal and everyone wants to figure out what to do with them) or as an initial plot hook for the first act, where you try to/do accomplish it through a blood hunt or whatever.

I don't really trust paradox to make a good game but at least I'm willing to let them try

 

[Vaarna_Aarne]

Well, what we know of the story so far, some shenanigans happen (parties unknown do a Mass Embrace almost in public), the PC is the only witness (being one of the Mass Embraced thin-bloods), and when they're brought in for questioning regarding the shenanigans parties unknown light the place on fire.

Impossible to say how much time will pass between each of these opening act beats, but considering you're basically a witness/suspect in a major Kindred crime I'd place the odds on Blood Hunt of some manner against one of the footsoldiers responsible for aforementioned shenanigans being how you rank up out of the first act and get a choice of Clan.

 

[isador]

You can also convince a Demon or an Archmage to reduce your generation. If they are powerful enough they sure can although good luck paying whatever price they will ask for it.

 

[Roguey]

Fifteen years are more than enough time for someone to move north, after all…

World-shrinking nostalgia pandering.

 

[Sykar]

Yes! Bloodlines 2 will support mods with Steam Workshop integration and Paradox Mods, our independent modding platform that gives modders a direct multi-platform pipeline. We’ll have more details about mod support later, so stay tuned!

Oh good, Wesp5 can fix it for us again.

Or Tessera.

 

[J1M]

Of all the V5-introduced mechanics, I find myself wondering about "predator type" the most. I suspect it won't feature at all, but hope it does, be it in character creation or something developed organically through play. The former would be truer to tabletop of course, and the latter more of a capitalization on the strengths of the medium.

... And I'm not even remotely implying that "developing organically through play" is always preferable. Like giving our thin-blooded character a choice of clan dilutes the power of the Embrace thematically. But whatever.

Depends on how they do it, I guess. Doing diablerie (or maybe being forced into it) and dealing with the fallout would maybe be an adventure hook and also justify gaining a clan's powers, though also the Camarilla would probably be really pissed about that unless there's some kind of crazy justification. You can't really change generations normally, but I think that's one of the ways changing from thinblood status can happen and it's certainly an iconic VTM thing

Alternatively they'll have some kind of other way it occurs, in which case I'd imagine something that can turn thinbloods into regular vampires would actually be a pretty major macguffin to fight over or chase after. Nothing wrong with that in itself

I've explained a these details regarding diablerie a few times now, but to reiterate:

Diablerie is the only established way that can lower Generation, and yes it can make a thin-blood part of a Clan.

Camarilla has never given a single fuck about diablerie as part of a Blood Hunt.

In V5 Camarilla covertly but often enough dangles arranged diablerie as a promised reward in order to flip Anarch thin-bloods to work as double agents and snitches.

Isn't there some tremere blood magic potion that takes months to make that also does this?

 

[Cael]

Of all the V5-introduced mechanics, I find myself wondering about "predator type" the most. I suspect it won't feature at all, but hope it does, be it in character creation or something developed organically through play. The former would be truer to tabletop of course, and the latter more of a capitalization on the strengths of the medium.

... And I'm not even remotely implying that "developing organically through play" is always preferable. Like giving our thin-blooded character a choice of clan dilutes the power of the Embrace thematically. But whatever.

Depends on how they do it, I guess. Doing diablerie (or maybe being forced into it) and dealing with the fallout would maybe be an adventure hook and also justify gaining a clan's powers, though also the Camarilla would probably be really pissed about that unless there's some kind of crazy justification. You can't really change generations normally, but I think that's one of the ways changing from thinblood status can happen and it's certainly an iconic VTM thing

Alternatively they'll have some kind of other way it occurs, in which case I'd imagine something that can turn thinbloods into regular vampires would actually be a pretty major macguffin to fight over or chase after. Nothing wrong with that in itself

I've explained a these details regarding diablerie a few times now, but to reiterate:

Diablerie is the only established way that can lower Generation, and yes it can make a thin-blood part of a Clan.

Camarilla has never given a single fuck about diablerie as part of a Blood Hunt.

In V5 Camarilla covertly but often enough dangles arranged diablerie as a promised reward in order to flip Anarch thin-bloods to work as double agents and snitches.

Isn't there some tremere blood magic potion that takes months to make that also does this?

Mage with Quint 6, Body 6 would probably will himself into being any generation he wants :D

 

[Vaarna_Aarne]

Of all the V5-introduced mechanics, I find myself wondering about "predator type" the most. I suspect it won't feature at all, but hope it does, be it in character creation or something developed organically through play. The former would be truer to tabletop of course, and the latter more of a capitalization on the strengths of the medium.

... And I'm not even remotely implying that "developing organically through play" is always preferable. Like giving our thin-blooded character a choice of clan dilutes the power of the Embrace thematically. But whatever.

Depends on how they do it, I guess. Doing diablerie (or maybe being forced into it) and dealing with the fallout would maybe be an adventure hook and also justify gaining a clan's powers, though also the Camarilla would probably be really pissed about that unless there's some kind of crazy justification. You can't really change generations normally, but I think that's one of the ways changing from thinblood status can happen and it's certainly an iconic VTM thing

Alternatively they'll have some kind of other way it occurs, in which case I'd imagine something that can turn thinbloods into regular vampires would actually be a pretty major macguffin to fight over or chase after. Nothing wrong with that in itself

I've explained a these details regarding diablerie a few times now, but to reiterate:

Diablerie is the only established way that can lower Generation, and yes it can make a thin-blood part of a Clan.

Camarilla has never given a single fuck about diablerie as part of a Blood Hunt.

In V5 Camarilla covertly but often enough dangles arranged diablerie as a promised reward in order to flip Anarch thin-bloods to work as double agents and snitches.

Isn't there some tremere blood magic potion that takes months to make that also does this?

None that I recall or can find mention of with a brief search. There is the Blood Potency three-dot for Path of Blood, but that's not a ritual and it's temporary and doesn't truly lower Generation. There is the Ritual of the Bitter Rose, but that just allows multiple-participant diablerie (also sort of amusingly this is not a six-dot but just three-dot and mentioned to be basically not available since only six copies documenting it are suspected to survive outside the Vienna Chantry). Sort of related is the Quenching the Lambent Flame ritual, which is a six-dot that RAISES the Generation of the target to 13th.

 

[Storyfag]

There is the Ritual of the Bitter Rose, but that just allows multiple-participant diablerie (also sort of amusingly this is not a six-dot but just three-dot and mentioned to be basically not available since only six copies documenting it are suspected to survive outside the Vienna Chantry).

So much usurper wankery, when the real solution is:

1. unearth a torpid Methuselah
2. use xirs vitae to Embrace a brood (size as required by number of interested parties) Cappadocius-style
3. devour the freshly-embraced, confused, low-gen fledglings, lowering your gen considerably
...
4. profit (aka: mutliple beneficiaries who will never have to contend with the ancient mind of the Methuselah trying to wrest control of their bodies from them)

Truly, the minds of lesser clans are incapable of fathoming the simplest, yet elegant, solutions.

 

[typical user]

If Antediluvians would read this, they sure would bring Gehenna now you sick bastards.

4. profit (aka: mutliple beneficiaries who will never have to contend with the ancient mind of the Methuselah trying to wrest control of their bodies from them)

Wouldn't 4th gen be powerful enough to take over minds of those embraced and through some AIDS magic (and mixture Fortitude or Dominance) infest your mind too after diablerising them?

 

[glass blackbird]

If Antediluvians would read this, they sure would bring Gehenna now you sick bastards.

4. profit (aka: mutliple beneficiaries who will never have to contend with the ancient mind of the Methuselah trying to wrest control of their bodies from them)

Wouldn't 4th gen be powerful enough to take over minds of those embraced and through some AIDS magic (and mixture Fortitude or Dominance) infest your mind too after diablerising them?

That can supposedly happen yeah, it's supposed to be how one of the clan primogenitors (i forget which one, and who cares really) is still around

 

[Saerain]

Fifteen years are more than enough time for someone to move north, after all…

World-shrinking nostalgia pandering.

Eh, LA to Seattle happens an awful lot, though. Something like one NPC out of Bloodlines' dozens having replanted doesn't have to seem forced.

... But you're probably right, anyway.

 

[Vaarna_Aarne]

If Antediluvians would read this, they sure would bring Gehenna now you sick bastards.

4. profit (aka: mutliple beneficiaries who will never have to contend with the ancient mind of the Methuselah trying to wrest control of their bodies from them)

Wouldn't 4th gen be powerful enough to take over minds of those embraced and through some AIDS magic (and mixture Fortitude or Dominance) infest your mind too after diablerising them?

That can supposedly happen yeah, it's supposed to be how one of the clan primogenitors (i forget which one, and who cares really) is still around

The stuff regarding diablerie possession is kinda vague and more of a thing brought up as narrative element than a real rule thing, the groundwork rules in regards to it are most often linked to Willpower and Generation rather than disciplines however (though I suppose in V5 Fortitude provided that particular ability is present may factor in). Saulot's soul overwhelmed Tremere after the diablerie in the manner usually described, [Lasombra] simply left his material body to enter the Void, Tzimisce was never succesfully diablerized, Ilyes may or may not have jumped 5000 years into the future using Temporis, and Cappadocius did nothing because he looks like Santa.

 

[RickOmbo]

In the first VtMB, looking for blood dispensers is a boring distraction that pad the game out. Hope this time around it's more meaningful process. In Vampyr the problem was solved by making the act of bloodsucking a lethal thing for human side.

 

[Storyfag]

If Antediluvians would read this, they sure would bring Gehenna now you sick bastards.

4. profit (aka: mutliple beneficiaries who will never have to contend with the ancient mind of the Methuselah trying to wrest control of their bodies from them)

Wouldn't 4th gen be powerful enough to take over minds of those embraced and through some AIDS magic (and mixture Fortitude or Dominance) infest your mind too after diablerising them?

But the plan does not involve killing the Methuselah. I don't think the torpid Cainite would have any motivation, and possibly not enough awareness of what's happening, to start influencing the minds of its soon-to-be-devoured progeny.

 

[Vaarna_Aarne]

It's what happens when a setting has rules that could be deduced by a savvy person and ruthlessly exploited like that. The only reason it hasn't happened is because the people writing these books only realized this "OH SHIT" somewhere around Requiem entering workshop, and have since just pretended nobody has ever thought of this sort of extremely simple style of powergaming (heck you don't even need a torpid Methuselah for this, you just have to convince them of the idea; or you find a punkass sucka like Lambach Ruthven and strongarm them in on the caper).

 

[Storyfag]

deduced by a savvy person and ruthlessly exploited like that

Savvy and ruthless. Yes. And learned in the ways of our Cainite condition. That is what we Tzimisce are

(heck you don't even need a torpid Methuselah for this, you just have to convince them of the idea; or you find a punkass sucka like Lambach Ruthven and strongarm them in on the caper).

More to the point, I can easily imagine Elders, especially Sabbat Elders, offering this sort of arrangement as a boon. "Be a useful little pawn and I shall embrace some poor sod for you to devour."

 

[Vaarna_Aarne]

Well they would never ever write that in a splat because it's so utterly ridiculous and gamist it'd be like obliterating the fourth wall.

 

[hajro]

So gameplay is at the Cuck Games Store conference, right?

 

[Egosphere]

It's not about bewbs. It's the overall art style and the grey lighting, maybe too realistic. It could look different in the game, but VtMB's characters are more colorful.

Boyarsky did mention that they tried to stray away from realism and into a unique art style when making the original. According to him they didn't really succeed. He mentioned Dishonored as an example, as well.

 

[Delterius]

In the first VtMB, looking for blood dispensers is a boring distraction that pad the game out. Hope this time around it's more meaningful process. In Vampyr the problem was solved by making the act of bloodsucking a lethal thing for human side.

someone wasn't a goth chad at the nightclubs

 

[Mastermind]

Kinda surprised they went with Malkavian, but if the protagonist isn't voiced (like it should be), it won't be that much of a problem, they just have to find wacky and zany ways to show the craziness. I foresee them trying to emulate Bloodlines' Malkavians too closely and just be a repeat of that.

I'm actually happy if your character isn't a complete and utter clown like xir was in the first bloodlines. All the other malkavians in the game talked fairly normally, only your character sounds like a victorian larper.

 

[Vincente]

Kinda surprised they went with Malkavian, but if the protagonist isn't voiced (like it should be), it won't be that much of a problem, they just have to find wacky and zany ways to show the craziness. I foresee them trying to emulate Bloodlines' Malkavians too closely and just be a repeat of that.

I'm actually happy if your character isn't a complete and utter clown like xir was in the first bloodlines. All the other malkavians in the game talked fairly normally, only your character sounds like a victorian larper.

It's the defining trait of fishmalks I'd say, so no wonder lulrandumb people want absurd speaking Malkavian again.

On the other hand, I hope they give us option to fail quests in order to make a role-playing experience again, i.e refusing to do Slashterpiece if you're Toreador (which is what I do every single time).

 

[Storyfag]

Kinda surprised they went with Malkavian, but if the protagonist isn't voiced (like it should be), it won't be that much of a problem, they just have to find wacky and zany ways to show the craziness. I foresee them trying to emulate Bloodlines' Malkavians too closely and just be a repeat of that.

I'm actually happy if your character isn't a complete and utter clown like xir was in the first bloodlines. All the other malkavians in the game talked fairly normally, only your character sounds like a victorian larper.

It's the defining trait of fishmalks I'd say, so no wonder lulrandumb people want absurd speaking Malkavian again.

On the other hand, I hope they give us option to fail quests in order to make a role-playing experience again, i.e refusing to do Slashterpiece if you're Toreador (which is what I do every single time).

Fishmalk he may be, but the way Dev/Null is trolling Pink is, in hindsight, delicious. Ast' a mite stupid name indeed!