World of Darkness Vampire: The Masquerade – Bloodlines 2 from Hardsuit Labs

[Cael]

Wait... they actually killed off all vampires???

This is from the Gehenna book that ended the Old WoD line before the ushered in the new World of Darkness. These scenarios aren't canon in v20 or v5 though (where Gehenna merely turned out to be cyclical purging of elder vampires).

Cyclical is weaksauce. I like the whole God and forgiveness aspect of the scenario, but I disagree with the whole "had enough, purge them all" attitude. Clashes too hard with the New Testament.

 

[Roguey]

Cyclical is weaksauce.

It was the only way they could bring back the old, more popular canon.

I like the whole God and forgiveness aspect of the scenario, but I disagree with the whole "had enough, purge them all" attitude. Clashes too hard with the New Testament.

Well the goal of the scenario is to repent so you can be turned back into a human. Characters who succeed even get a Mark of God on their souls at the end which will prevent them from coming to a violent end.

 

[Fedora Master]

Vampire isn't exactly the kind of lovey dovey new testament team Jesus Christianity anyway.

 

[Wyatt_Derp]

Vampire isn't exactly the kind of lovey dovey new testament team Jesus Christianity anyway.

Since we're talking a dev team of palm licking sperg generators, I can safely ignore any theocratic background wish-wash.

Now if the game had Joel Osteen on as a designer...

 

[Wesp5]

"this chapter is the vision of Gehenna" meaning one of the possible versions.

How is Caine described in the other possible endings? Because the Gehenna novel shows a completely different version of Caine AFAIR...

 

[Storyfag]

"this chapter is the vision of Gehenna" meaning one of the possible versions.

How is Caine describeb in the other possible endings? Because the Gehenna novel shows a completely different version of Caine AFAIR...

Roguey gib info.

 

[Kalin]

So what about nigger warnings?

 

[Roguey]

"this chapter is the vision of Gehenna" meaning one of the possible versions.

How is Caine describeb in the other possible endings? Because the Gehenna novel shows a completely different version of Caine AFAIR...

Roguey gib info.

In Fair Is Foul, which is Lilith vs Caine, he's a loser who sleeps most of the time, periodically wakes up to at what society's become, and lets you kill him in the end (unless Luci gets him to repent)

In Nightshade, which is vamps vs antediluvians, he's already dead and the only thing that remains of him is a vial of blood.

In The Crucible of God, which is Antedilvuians take over the world (until they all die), Caine isn't mentioned at all until an optional stinger at the end. It's the worst campaign by far, with lack of player choice and a lot of apocalypse-porn-infodumping by a wannabe novelist.

Regardless, a common theme among these White Wolf-sanctioned scenarios is that Caine is a self-obsessed loser who wants to die or is already dead. Not some master of manipulation chess master. After all, his origin story was that he killed his brother in a fit of jealous rage and couldn't come up with anything better than "I'm not my brother's keeper."

 

[Vincente]

After all, his origin story was that he killed his brother in a fit of jealous rage and couldn't come up with anything better than "I'm not my brother's keeper."

Didn't God resurrect Abel in one scenario so Caine would apologize, but he doesn't, they argue for some dumb reason, and he just kills him again anyway? Or am I imagining?

 

[Roguey]

Didn't God resurrect Abel in one scenario so Caine would apologize, but he doesn't, they argue for some dumb reason, and he just kills him again anyway? Or am I imagining?

Misremembering a bit. In Fair is Foul, Abel can show up as a Wraith to protect Caine so he can tell him he forgives him, which the GM can either have him accept or reject.

 

[Storyfag]

"this chapter is the vision of Gehenna" meaning one of the possible versions.

How is Caine describeb in the other possible endings? Because the Gehenna novel shows a completely different version of Caine AFAIR...

Roguey gib info.

In Fair Is Foul, which is Lilith vs Caine, he's a loser who sleeps most of the time, periodically wakes up to at what society's become, and lets you kill him in the end (unless Luci gets him to repent)

In Nightshade, which is vamps vs antediluvians, he's already dead and the only thing that remains of him is a vial of blood.

In The Crucible of God, which is Antedilvuians take over the world (until they all die), Caine isn't mentioned at all until an optional stinger at the end. It's the worst campaign by far, with lack of player choice and a lot of apocalypse-porn-infodumping by a wannabe novelist.

Regardless, a common theme among these White Wolf-sanctioned scenarios is that Caine is a self-obsessed loser who wants to die or is already dead. Not some master of manipulation chess master. After all, his origin story was that he killed his brother in a fit of jealous rage and couldn't come up with anything better than "I'm not my brother's keeper."

I see a lot of "probably" in those snippets. Still, they are pretty unimaginative. The Troika version is superior.

 

[Roguey]

I see a lot of "probably" in those snippets. Still, they are pretty unimaginative. The Troika version is superior.

"Dude, the vampire who orchestrated your siring was the dark father himself! Isn't that awesome!?!?!?!?" isn't well-thought-out writing.

 

[Latro]

Cain acting like Tzeentch from Warhammer40K is completely out of character. Moreover, just because BL1's story is good doesn't mean White Wolf should all of a sudden let their flagship NPC go through a major change without it originating from themselves.

 

[Wesp5]

Regardless, a common theme among these White Wolf-sanctioned scenarios is that Caine is a self-obsessed loser who wants to die or is already dead. Not some master of manipulation chess master.

All of these do not remotely remind me of the novel, so what the hell were WW thinking at the time? I'm glad that all of this is not canon anymore...

 

[Storyfag]

I see a lot of "probably" in those snippets. Still, they are pretty unimaginative. The Troika version is superior.

"Dude, the vampire who orchestrated your siring was the dark father himself! Isn't that awesome!?!?!?!?" isn't well-thought-out writing.

Within the scope of the game, yes, it is. Consider all the people who only played Bloodlines and will never be exposed to any other WoD lore. The game mentioning Caine and doing nothing with that would be badly thought out writing, for the Eldest's sake!

And anyway, I much prefer a Caine hoping to find a form of society for his progeny to exist in to an apathetic boring manequin.

 

[Latro]

And anyway, I much prefer a Caine hoping to find a form of society for his progeny to exist in to an apathetic boring manequin.

The problem, is that sort of active participation in the setting is completely against the way WW has had the character function and takes away from his mystique. WW shouldn't (and they didn't) let some other company re-define their own IP.

 

[Storyfag]

Cain acting like Tzeentch from Warhammer40K is completely out of character. Moreover, just because BL1's story is good doesn't mean White Wolf should all of a sudden let their flagship NPC go through a major change without it originating from themselves.

That is actually fully in line with the "Caine is Active but Unknown" section from below, which makes him a secret master of the Jyhad:

 

[Latro]

That is actually fully in line with the "Caine is Active but Unknown" section from below,

Which presents another problem, it shoe-horns him into an archetype when he's meant to vary by DM's taste.

 

[Storyfag]

That is actually fully in line with the "Caine is Active but Unknown" section from below,

Which presents another problem, it shoe-horns him into an archetype when he's meant to vary by DM's taste.

If he's meant to vary by DM's taste, then I see nothing wrong with the approach of DM Troika. Just one of a myriad options which any DM could take.

In fact, I find more fault with shoehorning done by WW themselves.

 

[Latro]

If he's meant to vary by DM's taste, then I see nothing wrong with the approach of DM Troika.

So, you think Troika should be able to dictate White Wolf's own flagship character? Strange opinion, but WW was right to not feel that way.

 

[GhostCow]

Troika should be able to do pretty much anything they want in their own game. It's based on the WW IP. It doesn't define it or have any effect on the tabletop. It's its own thing.

 

[Latro]

Troika should be able to do pretty much anything they want in their own game. It's based on the WW IP. It doesn't define it or have any effect on the tabletop. It's its own thing.

As far as I'm aware, Bloodlines is actually considered part of WoD canon, albeit without Caine as the Cabby. So yes, since the games are part of WW's PnP, they have exclusive rights to say what is or what isn't kosher.

le reddit source:

https://www.reddit.com/r/WhiteWolfRPG/comments/96jvcb/vampire_the_masquerade_bloodlines_canon/

 

[jungl]

WoD lore always been bad. Its so bad that a reddit hipster man that wears fingerless gloves in his 40s changing it around makes MUCH better tells you something. The whole thing about asking god for forgiveness shit is very stupid.

 

[GhostCow]

They can say whatever they want and do whatever they want with the story that applies to the tabletop. They can take whatever they want from the PC game and apply it to the tabletop. That doesn't change the PC game. It's not like this stuff all exists in an actual reality that can't be shaped in whatever way people want. This is why the whole idea of "canon" is stupid.

 

[Latro]

They can say whatever they want and do whatever they want with the story that applies to the tabletop. They can take whatever they want from the PC game and apply it to the tabletop. That doesn't change the PC game. It's not like this stuff all exists in an actual reality that can't be shaped in whatever way people want. This is why the whole idea of "canon" is stupid.

As long as you understand Bloodlines 2 will not be written from the POV that Cain was an active participant in BL1, but a Malkavian that thought he was Cain :3