World of Darkness Vampire: The Masquerade – Bloodlines 2 from Hardsuit Labs

[Tuco Benedicto Pacifico]

IIRC they are doing parallel universe shit, and always were going to do that kind of stuff. Which is why the Government Man is actually the God Man and is kind of like Q from Star Trek.

According to the leaked HL3 script by the original writer himself they weren't. But probably after it got leaked they decided they could never make it, so why not reset everything?

"Leaked" is a weird way to describe it.
He literally blogged that stuff himself in the (poorly disguised) form a of an unrelated fanfiction.

Incidentally, something he recently expressed some regret about.

 

[Herumor]

Here comes the ultra-realistic graphics train!

Face too old.
Waist too wide.
Hands too big.
Tits too small.
Shoulders too wide.
Shoes too ugly.
Shirt too long.

Looks like a woman in her early 40s thinking she's still got it - and by it, she means hanging out in goth clubs (which don't even exist and are simply nostalgia music nights relegated to a few select bar lounges-turned-clubs) with teenagers, trying to rope herself something young to remind her she too once was "it".

 

[RaggleFraggle]

Paradox should not be struggling as much as they are. Urban fantasy is not a hard genre to do in a crpg context, as long as you leave your pretension at the door. You can draw upon the whole of world mythology and folklore for inspiration. Leprechaun mafias, werewolf board room directors, Taoist magicians selling gadgets design to take full advantage of feng shui, creepy puppet show mascots who live inside the tv, horrific masses of hooks, scalpels and barbed wire that flay people and wear their skins to blend in with the muggles, weirdos in gimp masks that unzip to reveal tentacles when they need to feed, various flavors of cursed or haunted items that bring ruin to the hands they pass through, etc.

 

[Storyfag]

Remember; sometimes dead is bettah

Bloodlines will come back wrong. This ground is sour.

Even in your dreams, you are beaten and defeated.
Me, I dream of a new Bloodlines games being good. I have soul left.

A mod of the original with AI voices to make new content

Somebody did post an AI take on voicing LaCroix in this or that thread. It was spot on.

 

[Semiurge]

goth clubs (which don't even exist

Probably not now in the sense that they existed in the 80's and 90's. Back in the 80's they were in reality just punk clubs, where the goths and punks would (barely) tolerate each other - it was a clash (pun intended) of romanticism and anarchy (in the UK! *spits on sidewalk*). In the 90s however, there were actual goth clubs in big cities, where the goths and gays mingled. After all they were mostly just gays who were into bondage and S&M.

trying to rope herself something young to remind her she too once was "it".

That's the definition of a vampire, except for the aging.

 

[Wesp5]

It seemed clear to me from the leaked script that a big problem with HL3's story is that their Big Emotional Shock Ending broke Alyx and there was nothing they could think of that could fix it, which very likely contributed to why they found it impossible to complete when they were actively working on it. So they just got rid of the moment.

I'm pretty sure the story behind the leaked script is much much older than Alyx. In my opinion Valve only made the latter to push their VR solutions, there was no greater interest in HL itself behind this game...

 

[Tyranicon]

Paradox should not be struggling as much as they are. Urban fantasy is not a hard genre to do in a crpg context, as long as you leave your pretension at the door. You can draw upon the whole of world mythology and folklore for inspiration. Leprechaun mafias, werewolf board room directors, Taoist magicians selling gadgets design to take full advantage of feng shui, creepy puppet show mascots who live inside the tv, horrific masses of hooks, scalpels and barbed wire that flay people and wear their skins to blend in with the muggles, weirdos in gimp masks that unzip to reveal tentacles when they need to feed, various flavors of cursed or haunted items that bring ruin to the hands they pass through, etc.

Media in 2023 struggles to tell even the most simple, coherent story - much less an interactive one with many moving parts. It probably says something about the quality of the creatives that western culture has cultivated over the past 2-3 decades.

The dwindling hype for Bloodlines 2 is fueled by nostalgia for better times and more talented writers. Will we see that reflected in the sequel?

Since there's been absolute radio silence on the new version of the game, who knows? One could only hope. I'm trying to be more optimistic these days.

 

[RaggleFraggle]

Media in 2023 struggles to tell even the most simple, coherent story - much less an interactive one with many moving parts. It probably says something about the quality of the creatives that western culture has cultivated over the past 2-3 decades.

The fact that these products consistently tank suggests that audiences aren't interested. The mystifying part is not that there are incompetent creatives, that's always been a thing. Fanfiction and amateur publishing just made it obvious. The mystifying part is why the companies providing the funding have suddenly relaxed their quality standards to such low degrees. While said companies have a nasty habit of canceling great shows, they also act a quality filter to prevent really atrocious stuff from getting through. Why is the filter suddenly not working? The CW has been around for years without making profit or receiving donations.

 

[Delterius]

there's nothing more immersive than urban fantasy games being cursed IRL



depression is the genre's motiff

 

[Harthwain]

The fact that these products consistently tank suggests that audiences aren't interested.

Could be the proof that these products are badly made, not necessarily that audiences are not interested in them.

 

[Tyranicon]

The fact that these products consistently tank suggests that audiences aren't interested.

Could be the proof that these products are badly made, not necessarily that audiences are not interested in them.

Also, by and large most audiences are retarded. The whole sorry state of art and media is because corporations have devised the most efficient, soulless way to part consumers from their money, and consumers love it.

Creating something of value and quality is no longer the objective. Creating something that psychologically manipulates your audience is.

Sometimes you have to admire the mathematical genius of it all.

 

[RaggleFraggle]

The fact that these products consistently tank suggests that audiences aren't interested.

Could be the proof that these products are badly made, not necessarily that audiences are not interested in them.

Audiences aren’t interested because these products are badly made. That’s what I’m saying.

The fact that these products consistently tank suggests that audiences aren't interested.

Could be the proof that these products are badly made, not necessarily that audiences are not interested in them.

Also, by and large most audiences are retarded. The whole sorry state of art and media is because corporations have devised the most efficient, soulless way to part consumers from their money, and consumers love it.

Creating something of value and quality is no longer the objective. Creating something that psychologically manipulates your audience is.

Sometimes you have to admire the mathematical genius of it all.

Yeah. It destroys my faith in capitalism, which is the only economic system that has worked out so far. If all economic systems ultimately destroy the human soul, then why live? But I digress…

That only goes so far, though. Hollyweird is currently hemorrhaging money.

 

[Hammer Of The Heretics]

Creating something of value and quality is no longer the objective. Creating something that psychologically manipulates your audience is.

The same thing has happened to debate and discussion. Indicating your actual reasoning for your position is no longer the objective. Finding words that psychologically manipulate your audience into public agreement is.

 

[Russia is over. The end.]

Creating something of value and quality is no longer the objective.

Value (an economic term) is calculated by society's demand on the market of goods and services. A game that sells the most has the most value. It's unfortunate that niche products have less value. But such is life.

You're using words you don't understand.

Also, by and large most audiences are retarded.

Yes. In capitalism, we aim to please the retards.
In communism, we aim to elevate them to the rank of people. Through censorship - by censoring the idiocy and letting the works of art come out.

 

[Delterius]

you know a game is about to come out when page 618 starts a debate on economic policy

 

[Tyranicon]

you know a game is about to come out when page 618 starts a debate on economic policy

I wish.

Creating something of value and quality is no longer the objective.

Value (an economic term) is calculated by society's demand on the market of goods and services. A game that sells the most has the most value. It's unfortunate that niche products have less value. But such is life.

Economics is for nerds. By value I clearly mean artistic value, which can be measured by anything that would distract me from the boring shit that is real life.

As a consumer, I desire more good stuff to consume, except these limp-wristed assholes can't make any. Forcing me to make my own, which is honestly too time and effort-intensive to be really worth the bother.

God, if we had good games to play I wouldn't be a porn dev at all, but an honest god-fearing construction worker.

It's the industry to blame.

 

[Hammer Of The Heretics]

Economics is for nerds.

As someone who has read literally thousands of pages of economic theory, for fun, I resemble that remark.

 

[Heroic Liberator]

As a consumer, I desire more good stuff to consume, except these limp-wristed assholes can't make any. Forcing me to make my own, which is honestly too time and effort-intensive to be really worth the bother.

Most consumers are content with the current quality of video games (insofar as they continue buying them regardless of their particular thoughts on it), so the industry is doing just fine. Sad reality is that our desire for high quality stuff has become a niche market in itself. There's no economic incentive for big studios not to play it safe since bland, casualized stuff is accessible, requires less resources (and thought going into it) and doesn't scare away potential customers. So for monocled grognard tastes, best one could do is having some monocled indie devs such as yourself catering to them.

 

[RaggleFraggle]

you know a game is about to come out when page 618 starts a debate on economic policy

I wish.

Creating something of value and quality is no longer the objective.

Value (an economic term) is calculated by society's demand on the market of goods and services. A game that sells the most has the most value. It's unfortunate that niche products have less value. But such is life.

Economics is for nerds. By value I clearly mean artistic value, which can be measured by anything that would distract me from the boring shit that is real life.

As a consumer, I desire more good stuff to consume, except these limp-wristed assholes can't make any. Forcing me to make my own, which is honestly too time and effort-intensive to be really worth the bother.

God, if we had good games to play I wouldn't be a porn dev at all, but an honest god-fearing construction worker.

It's the industry to blame.

I can relate. My career path went one way, but now I’m trying to play catchup after realizing I want to be a creative because pop culture sucks now.

 

[EvilWolf]

Media in 2023 struggles to tell even the most simple, coherent story - much less an interactive one with many moving parts. It probably says something about the quality of the creatives that western culture has cultivated over the past 2-3 decades.

The fact that these products consistently tank suggests that audiences aren't interested. The mystifying part is not that there are incompetent creatives, that's always been a thing. Fanfiction and amateur publishing just made it obvious. The mystifying part is why the companies providing the funding have suddenly relaxed their quality standards to such low degrees. While said companies have a nasty habit of canceling great shows, they also act a quality filter to prevent really atrocious stuff from getting through. Why is the filter suddenly not working? The CW has been around for years without making profit or receiving donations.

The issue goes beyond simple economics. The funneling of money into these projects has nothing to do with making a profit, it's about sending a message.

 

[Harthwain]

The funneling of money into these projects has nothing to do with making a profit, it's about sending a message.

I am not so sure. What I see is the disconnect between the payer and the maker. The payer wants a game that brings in profit (or at least is not a loss), while the maker wants to make whatever he wants. The reason why Bloodline 2 flopped before it was even out is solely because in this particular case the studio utterly failed to deliver. If it were all about the message, then Paradox would've simply rolled with whatever shit Hardsuit Labs had and released it.

 

[EvilWolf]

The payer wants a game that brings in profit (or at least is not a loss),

What videogame industry are you talking about?

 

[Harthwain]

What videogame industry are you talking about?

THE video game industry, obviously. The theory that video games are made for an idea and not to make money is simply outlandish.

Look at EA, Ubisoft, CD Projekt or even Paradox. When Hearts of Iron IV was discussed (mainly in how streamlined it was) the lead developer said something along the lines of "If we want to keep making games, then we need to reach as many players as possible so we can afford to keep making games and not end up on the streets". This is business first and foremost. And that means profit.

Stupid "inclusive" bullshit is mainly PR people or suits, who have no idea what's going on, giving green light to some devs high on crack, because they think it'll mean their game will appear as "progressive" and "progressive" means good PR in their book. But you don't really have to give a shit about that, as long as your game is solid. Hell, you can even afford to be "controversive".

 

[EvilWolf]

What videogame industry are you talking about?

THE video game industry, obviously. The theory that video games are made for an idea and not to make money is simply outlandish.

Look at EA, Ubisoft, CD Projekt or even Paradox. When Hearts of Iron IV was discussed (mainly in how streamlined it was) the lead developer said something along the lines of "If we want to keep making games, then we need to reach as many players as possible so we can afford to keep making games and not end up on the streets". This is business first and foremost. And that means profit.

Stupid "inclusive" bullshit is mainly PR people or suits, who have no idea what's going on, giving green light to some devs high on crack, because they think it'll mean their game will appear as "progressive" and "progressive" means good PR in their book. But you don't really have to give a shit about that, as long as your game is solid. Hell, you can even afford to be "controversive".

There are only so many examples of this blowing up in the dev/publishers face and the process being repeated ad nauseum for it to be simple tone deafness. They know damn well what they're doing, repeating the same spiel over and over again until people accept it as quality. It's the equivilent of someone with more money than they know what to do with opening a burger joint next to McDonalds and chasing them out of business by selling home made burgers and fries for 1 cent.

 

[Harthwain]

There are only so many examples of this blowing up in the dev/publishers face and the process being repeated ad nauseum for it to be simple tone deafness. They know damn well what they're doing [...]

I wouldn't underestimate human stupidity. I mean, Paradox should've known better - considering they know how to make games - but even they got so big they lost touch and only started paying attention when it was actually too late salvage the original project (and they had to scrape it, and give it to another developer. With more oversight this time).

It's the equivilent of someone with more money than they know what to do with opening a burger joint next to McDonalds and chasing them out of business by selling home made burgers and fries for 1 cent.

Not really. You can see that in case of Paradox and CD Projekt. They don't have that much money to don't care about them. And companies such as Ubisoft or EA also have shareholders who want to see profits, not just "reapeat some spiel" and lose money instead of getting even richer.