World of Darkness Vampire: The Masquerade – Bloodlines 2 from Hardsuit Labs

[Semiurge]

Masquerade breacher is a bit more serious than that. The whore might begin to blab about the sicko john to her friends, with word getting back to rivals in the camarilla or second inquisition about the weirdo who sucks blood. The whore might also decide not to let the vampire feed any longer, causing a potential chimp out from the vampire.

Getting consent seems much more likely to breach masquerade, come to think of it. It implies that the human in question is aware that you mean to ingest their blood. The tradition of vampires biting strangers without consent is no better of course, realistically they should never actually bite anyone, for it invites the worst kind of suspicion. There are less suspicious ways of extracting someone's blood against their will, but biting has become a staple of vampire lore because of the fangs. Do victims of vampire bites in WoD suffer some kind of amnesia, perhaps? That still leaves those bite marks though. Don't tell me WoD vamps must bite in order to gain vitae's full benefits...

In wod a vampire can lick the bite wound, healing it immediately. Many humans also experience euphoria when being fed upon, unless the vampire has a flaw like blunt fangs, then the feeding causes immense pain. Vampires feed by biting mainly because of the joy they experience. Its one of the few ways a vampire can experience emotion.

Oh, I forgot the vampire blood also. With that and the saliva(?) the whole point of bitemarks becomes moot, despite the matter of how many vamps would actually care to use them to protect masquerade being purely academic.

 

[Wesp5]

Oh, I forgot the vampire blood also. With that and the saliva(?) the whole point of bitemarks becomes moot, despite the matter of how many vamps would actually care to use them to protect masquerade being purely academic.

In Bloodlines victims stay in a kind of trance afterwards and don't remember a thing. This can actually be a problem in the game if you have bitten a quest related NPC...

 

[Sykar]

Masquerade breacher is a bit more serious than that. The whore might begin to blab about the sicko john to her friends, with word getting back to rivals in the camarilla or second inquisition about the weirdo who sucks blood. The whore might also decide not to let the vampire feed any longer, causing a potential chimp out from the vampire.

Getting consent seems much more likely to breach masquerade, come to think of it. It implies that the human in question is aware that you mean to ingest their blood. The tradition of vampires biting strangers without consent is no better of course, realistically they should never actually bite anyone, for it invites the worst kind of suspicion. There are less suspicious ways of extracting someone's blood against their will, but biting has become a staple of vampire lore because of the fangs. Do victims of vampire bites in WoD suffer some kind of amnesia, perhaps? That still leaves those bite marks though. Don't tell me WoD vamps must bite in order to gain vitae's full benefits...

In wod a vampire can lick the bite wound, healing it immediately. Many humans also experience euphoria when being fed upon, unless the vampire has a flaw like blunt fangs, then the feeding causes immense pain. Vampires feed by biting mainly because of the joy they experience. Its one of the few ways a vampire can experience emotion.

So if a Vampire has a long enough tongue he can heal a womans menstruation?

 

[Storyfag]

Masquerade breacher is a bit more serious than that. The whore might begin to blab about the sicko john to her friends, with word getting back to rivals in the camarilla or second inquisition about the weirdo who sucks blood. The whore might also decide not to let the vampire feed any longer, causing a potential chimp out from the vampire.

Getting consent seems much more likely to breach masquerade, come to think of it. It implies that the human in question is aware that you mean to ingest their blood. The tradition of vampires biting strangers without consent is no better of course, realistically they should never actually bite anyone, for it invites the worst kind of suspicion. There are less suspicious ways of extracting someone's blood against their will, but biting has become a staple of vampire lore because of the fangs. Do victims of vampire bites in WoD suffer some kind of amnesia, perhaps? That still leaves those bite marks though. Don't tell me WoD vamps must bite in order to gain vitae's full benefits...

In wod a vampire can lick the bite wound, healing it immediately. Many humans also experience euphoria when being fed upon, unless the vampire has a flaw like blunt fangs, then the feeding causes immense pain. Vampires feed by biting mainly because of the joy they experience. Its one of the few ways a vampire can experience emotion.

So if a Vampire has a long enough tongue he can heal a womans menstruation?

As per usual, all you have to do to get a tongue like that is to ask one of us Fiends and provide payment. You might even not end up in the szlachta pits.

 

[Nutria]

Some of the progressive stuff in Star Trek TOS was greeted with confusion and rage from test audiences, like the woman officer from the pilot episode.

This is a myth that Gene Roddenberry made up later. The real problem the network had with it was that he was fucking her and everyone knew it and that kind of nepotism wasn't acceptable back then.

 

[Ol' Willy]

People prioritizing hiring friends or friends of friends is how so many companies are full of professional failures.

There's entire country built on such principle

 

[Semiurge]

Some of the progressive stuff in Star Trek TOS was greeted with confusion and rage from test audiences, like the woman officer from the pilot episode.

This is a myth that Gene Roddenberry made up later. The real problem the network had with it was that he was fucking her and everyone knew it and that kind of nepotism wasn't acceptable back then.

I think you meant that nepotism is unacceptable in Hollywood only when you're not practicing it yourself. "The casting couch" has a history as long as the flickers.

 

[True Ukrainian]

Gene Roddenberry was in an open relationship with two mistresses at that time. That was what scandalized his peers, not fucking an actress.

 

[just]

i dont know who to believe anymore

 

[Gangrelrumbler]

Shit like Rudi's Army makes me think that leftards aren't trying to subvert/destroy classic franchises like Star Trek or Star Wars on purpose. They are just fundamentally incapable of writing anything good. The biggest issue is that leftists who created these classics actually cared about people, while modern leftards are only concerned with LARPing as super-heroes.

Both are true. They are trying to subvert and ruin popular IPs, and they are also shit writers.

Now, as you mention, that wasn't always the case, there have been leftist writer that did manage to make the content palatable to audiences in the past, but that was when the left still hadn't achieved the level of dominance in popular culture they have nowadays.

What happens when they take over a popular IP and ruin it? A bunch of (predominantly white and male fans complain online, but are quickly drowned by the deluge of STUNNING AND BRAVE outpourings from fellow leftists and the media, while the detractors get unpersoned, silenced, banned and unplatformed.

There's also no financial consequences for the companies that allowed them to do this - their parent corporations will just pour in more monopoly money to finance the next propaganda effort, and the staff that gets laid off will just move onto the next thing to ruin.

As for why the writing is always so shit - you have to look at things from the deranged perspective of a leftist writer. Their main goal isn't to write a compelling narrative, but to reinforce leftist talking points. What this means in practice is that the leftist sacred cows (women, minorities and sexual degenerates) cannot be portrayed in a negative light or have flaws (as the writer might be accused of internalized misogyny/racism/bigotry) and cannot be shown to lose at any point to the white, male antagonist, as that would imply that they are inferior to white men.

And yes, they very much want and need to bend all entertainment to their whim, it's a cornerstone of the "cultural hegemony" they want to create to achieve their ideal of a self-perpetuating and self-sustaining Marxist dictatorship.

That's true but actual communists made better movie than these idiots. Even if money is not an issue and you can silence opponents ideally you'd want your propaganda to be actually liked by people. So obviously they should hire people who are able to deliver propaganda pieces that make people more sympathetic to their cause. It's not like being anti skinheads is such an extreme view that is impossible to present in a way that is likable to normies.

I think is there are no more leftists who are able to make works like that. Their university education and social media warped them so much they are unable to empathize with normal people. They want to write about Vampires fighting Nazis and instead of making it about something actually interesting they make it about hunting-down skinheads and one Vampire who's probably there to represent alt-right youtubbers. That's because they simply cannot look beyond their perspective and see actual issues. They just want to be bullies and take revenge on people they believe hurt them.

It's the same with minority casts. Why were all the black characters so cool in 80's and 90's and why is Michael from Discavery such irredeemable piece of shit? Because the writers of the former believed in diversity while the writers of Discovery believe mostly in getting their own way and saying "fuck you" to people they hate. So the characters they create unavoidably take on their bad character traits. They don't want to promote being a shitty person. They write what they know and all they know are garbage people.

 

[Storyfag]

i dont know who to believe anymore

Good. Trust only your brain.

Shit like Rudi's Army makes me think that leftards aren't trying to subvert/destroy classic franchises like Star Trek or Star Wars on purpose. They are just fundamentally incapable of writing anything good. The biggest issue is that leftists who created these classics actually cared about people, while modern leftards are only concerned with LARPing as super-heroes.

Both are true. They are trying to subvert and ruin popular IPs, and they are also shit writers.

Now, as you mention, that wasn't always the case, there have been leftist writer that did manage to make the content palatable to audiences in the past, but that was when the left still hadn't achieved the level of dominance in popular culture they have nowadays.

What happens when they take over a popular IP and ruin it? A bunch of (predominantly white and male fans complain online, but are quickly drowned by the deluge of STUNNING AND BRAVE outpourings from fellow leftists and the media, while the detractors get unpersoned, silenced, banned and unplatformed.

There's also no financial consequences for the companies that allowed them to do this - their parent corporations will just pour in more monopoly money to finance the next propaganda effort, and the staff that gets laid off will just move onto the next thing to ruin.

As for why the writing is always so shit - you have to look at things from the deranged perspective of a leftist writer. Their main goal isn't to write a compelling narrative, but to reinforce leftist talking points. What this means in practice is that the leftist sacred cows (women, minorities and sexual degenerates) cannot be portrayed in a negative light or have flaws (as the writer might be accused of internalized misogyny/racism/bigotry) and cannot be shown to lose at any point to the white, male antagonist, as that would imply that they are inferior to white men.

And yes, they very much want and need to bend all entertainment to their whim, it's a cornerstone of the "cultural hegemony" they want to create to achieve their ideal of a self-perpetuating and self-sustaining Marxist dictatorship.

That's true but actual communists made better movie than these idiots. Even if money is not an issue and you can silence opponents ideally you'd want your propaganda to be actually liked by people. So obviously they should hire people who are able to deliver propaganda pieces that make people more sympathetic to their cause. It's not like being anti skinheads is such an extreme view that is impossible to present in a way that is likable to normies.

I think is there are no more leftists who are able to make works like that. Their university education and social media warped them so much they are unable to empathize with normal people. They want to write about Vampires fighting Nazis and instead of making it about something actually interesting they make it about hunting-down skinheads and one Vampire who's probably there to represent alt-right youtubbers. That's because they simply cannot look beyond their perspective and see actual issues. They just want to be bullies and take revenge on people they believe hurt them.

It's the same with minority casts. Why were all the black characters so cool in 80's and 90's and why is Michael from Discavery such irredeemable piece of shit? Because the writers of the former believed in diversity while the writers of Discovery believe mostly in getting their own way and saying "fuck you" to people they hate. So the characters they create unavoidably take on their bad character traits. They don't want to promote being a shitty person. They write what they know and all they know are garbage people.

These are very good observations and the analysis is spot on.

 

[Caim]

i dont know who to believe anymore

Believe noting, reject modernity, return to monke.

 

[Flying Dutchman]

Good to see this thread still strong even after obvious collapse of title.

Although I imagine it'll pick up stronger once the new developer is announced (whoever that is).

 

[Turbografx]

With source material like this it was always going to be diarrhea one way or another. Good riddance to brian cucksoda and all the other has-beens trash

I honestly can't tell whether this is genuine or not. Truly, satire is dead.

 

[J1M]

a) Reminder: Sheldon Pacotti, with some contributions from Austin Grossman, wrote the entirety of Deus Ex.

b) For those who don't know, "Narrative Designer" is a fancy title for someone who writes fetch-quest dialog and item descriptions, but lacks the technical ability to implement them in the game engine.

a+b) How you could possibly justify employing 4 people in this role for any extended length of time on a AA game is beyond me.

 

[Roguey]

a) Reminder: Sheldon Pacotti, with some contributions from Austin Grossman, wrote the entirety of Deus Ex.

Actually three: Pacotti, Grossman, and Todd (formerly Chris, now a troon).

Grossman: Harvey got in touch and said, ‘We have two writers, but we have more writing than we can handle, so do you wanna write?’”

b) For those who don't know, "Narrative Designer" is a fancy title for someone who writes fetch-quest dialog and item descriptions, but lacks the technical ability to implement them in the game engine.

They started calling them narrative designers instead of writers since narrative design is more than just writing dialogue and in-game lore. As Avellone once put it

Narrative designers generally do more scripting (minor coding) in the engine and editor for quests, logic trees, etc., and do more work in the game engine and editor. Writers may or may not have the same level of interaction with the engine, but this depends on the studio, mileage may vary!

a+b) How you could possibly justify employing 4 people in this role for any extended length of time on a AA game is beyond me.

Bloodlines had three writer/designers with Brian doing the bulk of the writing. Bloodlines 2 was the Brian/Chris/Cara show for a few years, Chris left in 2018, then in late 2019 Nicole and Anna joined the team, likely because Brian and Cara were unable to handle the workload by themselves. Jordan and Sam were added when Brian was fired and Cara left. These kinds of RPGs require multiple novels worth of text, so unless you are a writing machine like Avellone, multiple people will be required.

 

[J1M]

I don't doubt that's why the title was created. It certainly sounds more prestigious to be a "senior" "designer" than a "dialog writer" for a game.

That's really what this is. Compensation in the form of a title because these people are low-paid fetch-quest writers who lack the technical skill to be level designers and the writing throughput to be principal writer.

I'm sure you've seen some co-workers that have two types of tasks running a similar shell game. When they have low writing throughput they have the excuse of "I was pasting my dialog into the level editor!" and when they can't do any scripting of consequence they have the excuse of "I don't have time to learn that, I have writing to do!"

 

[Wesp5]

They started calling them narrative designers instead of writers since narrative design is more than just writing dialogue and in-game lore.

I can understand that. A lot of scripts are triggered e.g. in the Bloodlined dialog files and the dialog jumps back and forward all the time! It would be good if the writer would not only write lines, but could also control this whole process.

 

[rusty_shackleford]

I don't doubt that's why the title was created. It certainly sounds more prestigious to be a "senior" "designer" than a "dialog writer" for a game.

That's really what this is. Compensation in the form of a title because these people are low-paid fetch-quest writers who lack the technical skill to be level designers and the writing throughput to be principal writer.

I'm sure you've seen some co-workers that have two types of tasks running a similar shell game. When they have low writing throughput they have the excuse of "I was pasting my dialog into the level editor!" and when they can't do any scripting of consequence they have the excuse of "I don't have time to learn that, I have writing to work on!"

narrative designers are in charge of making sure the game has a coherent narrative
it's essentially another one of those bullshit managerial positions that is a good sign that your company has too many employees

 

[Nano]

Mitsoda and Sheldon Pacotti were pure narrative designers on Bloodlines and DX, except they came from a time where the title didn't exist yet. Are you saying these games were worse for having those two work on them?

 

[J1M]

Mitsoda and Sheldon Pacotti were pure narrative designers on Bloodlines and DX, except they came from a time where the title didn't exist yet. Are you saying these games were worse for having those two work on them?

No, I'm merely pointing out that if you have 3+ people working for 4+ years on writing quests for your AA RPG and they aren't done yet, their productivity was very low.

 

[rusty_shackleford]

Mitsoda and Sheldon Pacotti were pure narrative designers on Bloodlines and DX, except they came from a time where the title didn't exist yet. Are you saying these games were worse for having those two work on them?

No, I'm merely pointing out that if you have 3+ people working for 4+ years on writing quests for your AA RPG and they aren't done yet, their productivity was very low.

management meddling could just as easily be responsible for that due to changing visions for the story

 

[thesheeep]

Mitsoda and Sheldon Pacotti were pure narrative designers on Bloodlines and DX, except they came from a time where the title didn't exist yet. Are you saying these games were worse for having those two work on them?

No, I'm merely pointing out that if you have 3+ people working for 4+ years on writing quests for your AA RPG and they aren't done yet, their productivity was very low.

management meddling could just as easily be responsible for that due to changing visions for the story

Indeed.
Writers having to re-write anything from small parts to... well, everything... due to no fault of their own is not unusual.

It also depends on how the team works.
Some go story-first and then try and design the game around that (IMO this happens more rarely, but it does happen).
Others design other elements of the game first (can be anything from core systems to unspecific level ideas) and then the writers have to work with that.
I think the approaches here are as varied as how bands come up with lyrics to their songs.

In any case, game development is highly iterative. Almost nothing that was ever "finished" stays that way for very long, the earlier it was "finished" the more likely it is to change.
Until the release button is pressed.

 

[Storyfag]

Mitsoda and Sheldon Pacotti were pure narrative designers on Bloodlines and DX, except they came from a time where the title didn't exist yet. Are you saying these games were worse for having those two work on them?

No, I'm merely pointing out that if you have 3+ people working for 4+ years on writing quests for your AA RPG and they aren't done yet, their productivity was very low.

management meddling could just as easily be responsible for that due to changing visions for the story

Indeed.
Writers having to re-write anything from small parts to... well, everything... due to no fault of their own is not unusual.

The writers that have pronouns on their twatter? Probably it IS fault of their own.

 

[Fenix]

not marxist - fascist

Because Hitler and Mussolini were all about the rights of women, non-whites, trannies, fags, pedophiles, atheists and all the other scum, and apparently bashing the fash in Copenhagen.

Sure.

It's not me that is confusing words, it's you. Gramsci is the one that came up with the idea of cultural hegemony as a necessity for the continued existence of a (Cultural) Marxist world-order.

It's not about that dumbass, but about nature of movement, approach. Your mind is so strangled you can't get out of the framework of imposed discourse.
Rigths lol - this all piss and shit. Eternally in th prison of calculations which rigths are and colour of the butt of new fascists.