World of Darkness Vampire: The Masquerade – Bloodlines 2 from Hardsuit Labs

[jackofshadows]

hey reached alpha and then probably someone high up at Paradox said that much of what Mitsoda wrote wasn't politically correct and had to go, to which he resisted, so they fired him and the director he pitched the game with and who probably had his back too. This is all pure speculation though...

I'm afraid interviews given by Mitsoda and that dangerhair thing that co-written things before all the drama even started heavily suggested that the writing WAS politically correct. So your speculation is very, very optimistic.

Rather, in Paradox they were horrified by Mitsoda's work and said it's simply too fucking woke. After all, thanks to recent accusations we know that Paradox are nothing but a bunch of disgusting bullies, sexual predators and other scum. The bottom line - it was the other way around.

 

[Ol' Willy]

hey reached alpha and then probably someone high up at Paradox said that much of what Mitsoda wrote wasn't politically correct and had to go, to which he resisted, so they fired him and the director he pitched the game with and who probably had his back too. This is all pure speculation though...

I'm afraid interviews given by Mitsoda and that dangerhair thing that co-written things before all the drama even started heavily suggested that the writing WAS politically correct. So your speculation is very, very optimistic.

I don't see Bloodlines as based or somesuch game - just entertaining writing without looking over the shoulder.
Nevertheless, these people are fucked in the head hard enough to spot some "problematic" moments in it.
Expect nothing less than a completely pozzed trash. From any new developer

 

[Wesp5]

They reached alpha and then probably someone high up at Paradox said that much of what Mitsoda wrote wasn't politically correct and had to go, to which he resisted, so they fired him and the director he pitched the game with and who probably had his back too. This is all pure speculation though...

I'm afraid interviews given by Mitsoda and that dangerhair thing that co-written things before all the drama even started heavily suggested that the writing WAS politically correct. So your speculation is very, very optimistic.

I know, but at the time Paradox had already dissolved WW US so maybe they already knew they had to claim everything was fine in that regard otherwise the same thing would happen to them. Or is it normal for game developers to talk about trigger warnings and representation of mental conditions before a game is even out?

 

[Storyfag]

They reached alpha and then probably someone high up at Paradox said that much of what Mitsoda wrote wasn't politically correct and had to go, to which he resisted, so they fired him and the director he pitched the game with and who probably had his back too. This is all pure speculation though...

I'm afraid interviews given by Mitsoda and that dangerhair thing that co-written things before all the drama even started heavily suggested that the writing WAS politically correct. So your speculation is very, very optimistic.

I know, but at the time Paradox had already dissolved WW US so maybe they already knew they had to claim everything was fine in that regard otherwise the same thing would happen to them. Or is it normal for game developers to talk about trigger warnings and representation of mental conditions before a game is even out?

No, it is not normal. But I doubt this was done in an attempt to appease Paradox. I'm afraid it was Hardsuit's very own idea of how things should be done properly.

FFS, these fuckers accused Bloodlines of not portraying mental illness respectfully. With Jeanette/Therese! And Grout!

 

[Yoomazir]

They gonna keep this game in development hell for years to come. Why? For money laundering. Look for future "investments" that will go down into this sinkhole (pockets).

 

[PlacidDragon]

Couldn't say without a lot more info on what's going on over there, but I doubt Hardsuit's problems were with the engine, my impression was that they couldn't manage design for the genre. Taking over someone else's codebase is always a logistical pain in the ass, but the situation can potentially warrant it. Unless you're taking over from that one Ukrainian developer who wrote all their comments in Cyrillic, was it GSC?

My comment was borne out of rumors really, as that is most of what we have

Wunderbar conveyed a post from Resetera where the claim was that they no longer wanted to use Mitsodas story for whatever reason (AFAIK, that has not been confirmed). If they toss out the story, they basically have to start over as a new story is extremely unlikely to be in the same location. But again, rumors and speculation

Edited for clarity

 

[Wunderbar]

Wunderbar claimed

it wasn't me.

 

[PlacidDragon]

Wunderbar claimed

it wasn't me.

Sorry, you conveyed the information from another forum (Resetera)

 

[Atlantico]

I would not be surprised if Bloodlines 2 is cancelled in every way except name.

Paradox will always say "they're working on it", with no news. The loss will be written off and perhaps one day in the distant future it will be picked up again, but it's over for the foreseeable future.

 

[J1M]

Selling pre-orders and never releasing the game is just a natural evolution of the Early Access business model.

 

[Roguey]

Publishers typically don't care about the writing in a game. I can't recall where I read it, but I vaguely recall reading someone claim that Hardsuit pitched and made a game that played like a sequel to Bloodlines 2 more or less, but somewhere in the middle of development Paradox decided that it needed to be "modernized." Hardsuit/Cluney/Mitsoda just ignored that directive and kept making the game they pitched, leading to Paradox's anger when they got milestone builds that were no longer what they wanted. I was skeptical at the time, since that story puts the blame mostly on Paradox (who allegedly turned down that Dagerfall successor when a dumb dev said they needed more money to compete with Skyrim) and not Hardsuit's own ineptitude which is backed up by all those Glassdoor reviews. It could be true that Hardsuit was both inept at trying to make a Bloodlines-like game and they were also suddenly told that it had to be a different kind of game, one that they didn't bother starting to try to make until people got fired for not making it. Wester was the CEO of Paradox when Bloodlines 2 was signed, but Ljungerud took over in 2018, so the "okay, make a different kind of game now" decision could have come from her (one of the many decisions leading to her resignation and Wester's return just last month).

Also of note, that although Avellone didn't mention this in his medium article where he used a bunch of words to say little of substance (par for the course), in his linkedin he does mention that in late 2018, the scope of Bloodlines 2 changed.

Apr 2016 - Aug 2018 2 years 5 months
Contract completed in 2018 when content delivered according to spec, approvals, and under budget. (Hardsuit set budget and specs, but the budget and specs changed after studio internal audit in 2018.)

Meanwhile at Paradox:

Wester announced in February 2018 that he plans to step down as CEO by August 2018, but will remain as the executive chairman of the board, while board member Ebba Ljungerud will take his place.

 

[Vincente]

Women ruining everything, a tale as old as Caine & Abel.

 

[Tao]

Selling pre-orders and never releasing the game is just a natural evolution of the Early Access business model.

It's working for Start Citizen tho

 

[BruceVC]

https://www.videogameschronicle.com...lines-2-was-almost-cancelled-paradox-reveals/

I know this has been posted before but for me the most important take away from the article is the game is not being cancelled, I really want to play another Bloodlines game with hot female Vampires who want to seduce me

 

[Ismaul]

Rather, in Paradox they were horrified by Mitsoda's work and said it's simply too fucking woke. After all, thanks to recent accusations we know that Paradox are nothing but a bunch of disgusting bullies, sexual predators and other scum. The bottom line - it was the other way around.

Real abusers are the most woke my man. Wokesters are bullies. So the scenario of Mitsoda being too woke for Paradox is too out there to be true. While unlikely, it's more likely that Mitsoda wasn't being woke enough: even if he tried, he could never be as woke as the new source material.

 

[Vincente]

I liked when they were not afraid to offend both sides of the pendulum.

 

[Roguey]

Real abusers are the most woke my man. Wokesters are bullies. So the scenario of Mitsoda being too woke for Paradox is too out there to be true. While unlikely, it's more likely that Mitsoda wasn't being woke enough: even if he tried, he could never be as woke as the new source material.

Brian's ex-wife might have something to say about his potential status as an abuser and bully https://rpgcodex.net/forums/threads/brian-and-annie-mitsoda-divorced.131087/page-10#post-7347426

 

[Harthwain]

Brian's ex-wife might have some thing to say about his potential status as an abuser and bully

I have one word to say: specifics. Usually people who avoid details have something to hide.

 

[Semiurge]

FFS, these fuckers accused Bloodlines of not portraying mental illness respectfully. With Jeanette/Therese! And Grout!

With Tourette and other malks there is a loophole - they are vampires. Split personalities haven't been documented properly and it's not necessarily a real condition at all, but is her mental state offensive because of that? No. As for Grout, what could possibly be offensive about him?! His descent into madness is described in a realistic way. It could be from any schizophrenic's diary. I think they took issue with Tourette because they thought she's too sexy (for that game).

 

[Viata]

Selling pre-orders and never releasing the game is just a natural evolution of the Early Access business model.

Just like releasing the same game with no changes and call it a remaster.

 

[Wesp5]

I think they took issue with Tourette because she's too sexy (for that game).

I don't believe that, after all even Harley Quinn looks like Jeanette now ! No, I think this was about the Malkavian player character who talks like a Fish-Malk as they call them in the PnP game.

 

[Larianshill]

Selling pre-orders and never releasing the game is just a natural evolution of the Early Access business model.

There's probably a lot of suckers, thousands, who preordered and still didn't refund. Maybe tens of thousands.

 

[luj1]

so this thing is dead

ahahahaha

 

[Delterius]

I think they took issue with Tourette because she's too sexy (for that game).

Back when bloodlines 2 died I listened to a bunch of those 'la by night' videos while playing Victoria 2. Funnily enough, the stance of the players / white wolf in there is to low key call Therese out for being a sex negative prude towards her sister. Which makes sense since the whole thing revolves around an Anarch coterie and the Therese player didn't even try to hide her frenemy tendencies. Which I guess is on brand as well.

 

[Roguey]

There are rumours on Reddit that "The Chinese Room" might be the new developer: https://www.reddit.com/r/vtmb/comments/q803fh/paradox_ceo_fredrik_wester_tells_swedish_paper/
I don't know if that would work. In my opinion they haven't even made a game with gameplay. Dear Esther and Eveybody has Gone to the Rapture were nothing but overhyped walking simulators, the latter one like the Amnesia episode just had an unfightable enemy if I remember correctly, so the only gameplay would be to walk or run away! How they should be able to fix the probably broken gameplay of Bloodlines 2 is beyond me.

I've been looking into this and apparently it was something posted on a gaming leaks discord? Some 'cord-savvy person should infiltrate and take a screen capture of the actual specifics.

I took a look at their career page and there's no giveaway, but there are some descriptions that kinda/sorta might fit.

The Project
As a studio we develop our own original games, as well as ‘TCR’ takes on select IP. Current projects are first-person action-adventure games for console and PC, and we’re looking for a world-class Senior Sound Designer to join the team.

What’s the role?
As a Senior Sound Designer, you will carry a broad range of responsibilities. Reporting to the audio lead, you will have a big hand in defining and executing the audio direction for the project, both creatively and technically, while establishing good workflow practices and prototyping audio systems in Unreal Engine’s Blueprint. You will work across many aspects of the game’s audio, collaborating closely with design, art and code teams, while simultaneously ensuring you get to play to your strengths and focus on what excites you most. This could include, but not be limited to, combat, traversal, cutscenes, dialogue systems or music implementation. Besides being a hands-on creative, you will also assist in Lead responsibilities such as scheduling and R&D into new features.

Could just be something else entirely of course.