Putting the 'role' back in role-playing games since 2002.
Donate to Codex
Good Old Games
  • Welcome to rpgcodex.net, a site dedicated to discussing computer based role-playing games in a free and open fashion. We're less strict than other forums, but please refer to the rules.

    "This message is awaiting moderator approval": All new users must pass through our moderation queue before they will be able to post normally. Until your account has "passed" your posts will only be visible to yourself (and moderators) until they are approved. Give us a week to get around to approving / deleting / ignoring your mundane opinion on crap before hassling us about it. Once you have passed the moderation period (think of it as a test), you will be able to post normally, just like all the other retards.

World of Darkness Vampire: The Masquerade – Bloodlines 2 - VTMB sequel from The Chinese Room - coming early 2025

The President

Educated
Joined
Oct 18, 2022
Messages
163
DA2 is one I’ve never played so when they reference it I’m lost.

So long story short, we’re expecting three word visual answers with long voiced monologues following?

I’m curious if these developers have seen this thread.
 

Semiurge

Cipher
Joined
Apr 11, 2020
Messages
7,073
Location
Asp Hole
Someone tried to ask Longthorne some questions in that twitter thread I posted but unfortunately she's not in a position to fully answer them. She did drop some info though.

First: Dan Pinchbeck was actually more involved than I thought https://www.danpinchbeck.co.uk/vampire
Pitch creation and creative leadership, concept adaptation to fit publisher and IP requirements, gameplay vision (including mechanics, tone, player experience), Creative Direction (prototype, pre-production & production, until Alpha (spring 2023)), Narrative Direction (including story and character creation, overseeing writing and level design team, establishing narrative architecture, style guides, working with Kate Saxon/SIDE on casting, voice direction and editing), Publisher liaison (specifically IP/Branding teams).



Like with Deep, this game is still in production so I don’t want to say too much about it here, so let’s keep this one brief.

The VTM franchise is a really amazing one. I grew up on paper-based RPGs, even if I’ve got fairly basic tastes when it comes to video games (I’ve got more hours clocked up on Far Cry and Just Cause than is healthy). VTM is special even for an RPG. It’s incredibly rich and deep, it’s morally and ethically complex, it combines modern politics with ancient supernatural evil, it’s biblical, it’s personal, it’s queer. It just screams TCR and everything we’d always tried to embed in our games. When the opportunity to pitch for it came up, it was Dan Pinchbeck catnip. I was confident we could deliver - we’d been scaling up and bringing on more and more people with serious development chops and history. I knew I wanted to write the story too, we’d never been a studio that were going to finish someone else’s work.

As it turns out, that dovetailed with what Paradox wanted and the state of the project. The inspirations were clear for me: dark US dramas like Succession, The Sopranos, The Wire, House of Cards. Anchor the gothic in the contemporary. Know that monsters exist in boardrooms and bars everywhere. Know that we live in a world that pretends it’s slick and sophisticated but where we’re still beating each other to death with the jawbones of asses. Know that you could get knifed for being in the wrong place at the wrong time, but you’re as likely to die from the poison dumped into your water in the pursuit of profit. Know that immortality is a curse as well as a blessing and that too much power strips humanity away like acid. One of my favourite lines from a novel comes from William Gibson’s Count Zero:

And, for an instant, she stared directly into those soft blue eyes and knew, with an instinctive mammalian certainty, that the exceedingly rich were no longer even remotely human.”

As a writer, working in that space is just bloody inspirational.

And until more about the game drops, that’s pretty much all you get. The central character, Phyre, encapsulates everything that VTM means to me and it was a blast writing her and the rest of the gang . Once I’d put together the story and background, characters and context, I worked with a great narrative team - Sarah Longthorne, Arone Le Bray and Frances Wakefield-Harrey on putting flesh onto those bones - and again worked with Kate and SIDE to put together a fantastic cast.

I led the project from inception through until alpha in spring this year, then handed the narrative reins over to Ian Thomas and the creative leadership to Alex Skidmore, both hugely experienced devs. If you love VTM as much as me, then I reckon you’re in good hands. And I hope the dark heart that I started beating at the centre of this thing does it justice.

I bolded the things I found amusing.

She also got Arone to answer a question about voiced player character dialogue and summarized dialogue choices:

It's definitely opinion for me, but for me I tend to lose immersion if I'm picking responses rather than hearing them spoken. There is a lot more nuance that you can get across with modern gaming, because we have more tools at our disposal to do so. Is it better to have someone say "I'm sad" or is it better to hear their voice catch in their throat while they say something else?

I was there when we took Dragon Age from no Player character VO into the VO, and once I saw the difference in the quality of writing (and game narrative in general), I never looked back.

Praising DA2 writing over Origins is uh certainly something.

And finally her own thoughts.

For my own part, I would also add that it depends on choice cadence, style, shape etc. BL1 had a choice every time you say anything, and the response was by necessity a mini monologue. We wanted more of a fluid back and forth, and to be very intentional with choices.

BL1-style choices make sense when that's all your character ever says, but that wasn't the direction we were given. That's why we decided to summarise the content and intent, so that players know what they're choosing, while allowing us to rely more on performance (and subtext).

The central character, Phyre, encapsulates everything that VTM means to me and it was a blast writing her

This could mean many things. Worst case - Phyre will always be female, but it's still not clear who the published player model belongs to. To Phyre the elder vampire, or someone much younger who diablerized her? If to the latter, then there's more hope about being able to customize your appearance and gender even.

Best case - they're just using a female pronoun as a default because it's what White Wolf does with nondescript characters.

@Semiurge has a point about the shoes on the Ventrue outfit. You're playing an elder, so I can actually appreciate the weird emo coat. It feels like something that a person from the 1700s would find cool, in a nerdy boomer's boomer way.

But the leather slippers make no sense considering that this is supposed to be a snowed-in Seattle. I get that vampires don't feel cold, but what about the Masquerade?! Anybody walking around in 20 inches of snow with nothing but leather sandals on is more jarring than a Nosferatu. This outfit would work much better on a Malkavian.

I bet there won't be a single female in this that wears high heels or skirts. Even the Tremere concept art seemed to show some gothy platform boots such as

JHvRz3k.jpg


Yet the render went with some bulkier, less feminine footwear. They must be going "Asexualize that shit already, worker!"

Also, including both high and low heels would mean that the animations would require further differentiation, and likely both male and female models will share walking animations because TCR are on the budget. So, everyone and their sister will

 

Storyfag

Perfidious Pole
Patron
Joined
Feb 17, 2011
Messages
17,032
Location
Stealth Orbital Nuke Control Centre
The guy was directly involved in Dragon Age II and honestly believes it was an improvement. Very "No, it's the children who are wrong" energy.
Amusing that this will likely be the second sequel to a cult classic that he works on which ends up being underwhelming and unappreciated by fans of the series.
Wait, what was the first cult classic sequel he worked on again?
 

Storyfag

Perfidious Pole
Patron
Joined
Feb 17, 2011
Messages
17,032
Location
Stealth Orbital Nuke Control Centre

Storyfag

Perfidious Pole
Patron
Joined
Feb 17, 2011
Messages
17,032
Location
Stealth Orbital Nuke Control Centre
When there is no option to play Tzimisce, I shall pick Tremere, who are just Tzimisce misinformed as to their heritage.
"Cursed Tremere blood."
image5.jpg
Well, yes. It is up to us to lift said curse and fold them back into the mainline Clan. And their own thoughts and opinions on the matter be damned. They are our rightful possession.

Again, I insist that if Tremere Vitae was used to Embrace a mortal without the accompanying ritual of Transubstantiation of the Seven, the result would be a proper Tzimisce, perhaps with an aptitude towards our own blood magic of Koldunism. But perhaps further excisement of any impurities remaining in the Blood would be required. As they say, discovery requires... experimentation.
 

Semiurge

Cipher
Joined
Apr 11, 2020
Messages
7,073
Location
Asp Hole
So what class you guys picking for your first run? I'll go w/ Ventrue, as usual. Though Bana Haqim looks fun

Like it's going to matter in this POS. The standalone DLC clan might, but it will have its own retarded story and retarded characters.
 

Skinwalker

*teleports inside you*
Patron
Village Idiot
Joined
Aug 20, 2021
Messages
11,508
Location
Nosex
I always enjoyed the narrative of Tzimisce originally being an aristocratic clan of Eastern European castle-bound wizards (bound by laws of sacred hospitality and mystically devoted to their land), and that Vissiccitude was some kind of alien horror that attached itself to the clan around the time of the supposed slaying of the antediluvian and forming the Sabbath.

But I also remember this being retconned.
 

Storyfag

Perfidious Pole
Patron
Joined
Feb 17, 2011
Messages
17,032
Location
Stealth Orbital Nuke Control Centre
I always enjoyed the narrative of Tzimisce originally being an aristocratic clan of Eastern European castle-bound wizards (bound by laws of sacred hospitality and mystically devoted to their land), and that Vissiccitude was some kind of alien horror that attached itself to the clan around the time of the supposed slaying of the antediluvian and forming the Sabbath.

But I also remember this being retconned.
I was never big on the "alien horror infestation", but I do prefer to see Vicissitude as a nice bonus to the aristocratic sacred hospitality, wizardry, and mystic bounds to the land, rather than the Clan's primary focus. The kicker? V5 is going exactly in this direction. Now a typical Tzimisce is definitely more of a genius locii than a hardcore metamorphosist.
 

Skinwalker

*teleports inside you*
Patron
Village Idiot
Joined
Aug 20, 2021
Messages
11,508
Location
Nosex
I was never big on the "alien horror infestation",
I liked it simply because of how much Viccisitude clashed thematically and aestheically with the general setting of VtM. Even before I came across the "True Black Hand" conspiracy, I felt that it was something out of a different setting.

For one thing, the main theme of VtM (and most vampire mythos) is that vampires remain physically the same no matter how long they live, and even your hairstyle will daily revert back to what it was on the night of your embrace if you try to change it. And the corresponding theme of "ancient monster with an almost perfectly human appearance".

Whereas Vissicitude is all about permanently changing the physical shapes of any living or undead flesh into nightmarish abominations from H. R. Gieger. and H. P. Niggerman, including the Tsimisce antediluvian turning into a giant eldritch flesh-blob that absorbs all life on Earth in the End Times. That is borderline a different type of supernatural creature than vampires.
 
Last edited:

ColaWerewolf

Educated
Joined
Feb 6, 2021
Messages
149
I liked it simply because of how much Viccisitude clashed thematically and aestheically with the general setting of VtM. Even before I came across the "True Black Hand" conspiracy, I felt that it was something out of a different setting.

For one thing, the main theme of VtM (and most vampire mythos) is that vampires remain physically the same no matter how long they live, and even your hairstyle will daily revert back to what it was on the night of your embrace if you try to change it. And the corresponding theme of "ancient monster with an almost perfectly human appearance".

Whereas Vissicitude is all about permanently changing the physical shapes of any living or undead flesh into nightmarish abominations from H. R. Gieger. and H. P. Niggerman, including the Tsimisce antediluvian turning into a giant eldritch flesh-blob that absorbs all life on Earth in the End Times. That is borderline a different type of supernatural creature than vampires.
Vicissitude fulfills the transformation aspect of the vampire mythos, which is present almost everywhere in said mythos with the exception of romance focused genres.

Protean (by itself) doesn't fulfill it, because protean is all about gaining animalistic physical traits and turning into animals, NOT about turning into monsters. Vicissitude is about transforming into the quintessential vampire monster.

Examples:
Castlevania LOVES Vicissitude and does some of the best designs.
graham-drac2.gif

drac-sotn.gif

Camilla2.gif


Blade 2 breed
Reapers-0.jpg


Skyrim
600px-SR-skill-Vampire_Lord_%28Male%29.jpg
 

Harthwain

Magister
Joined
Dec 13, 2019
Messages
5,194
Protean (by itself) doesn't fulfill it, because protean is all about gaining animalistic physical traits and turning into animals, NOT about turning into monsters. Vicissitude is about transforming into the quintessential vampire monster.

Examples:
Castlevania LOVES Vicissitude and does some of the best designs.
Reminds me of Kain from Legacy of Kain. He starts as human in Blood Omen 1, then he looks like an elf in Blood Omen 2 (pointy ears) and in Soul Reaver 1 & 2 and Defiance he looks like this:

542970-917578_20031219_002.jpg
 

Storyfag

Perfidious Pole
Patron
Joined
Feb 17, 2011
Messages
17,032
Location
Stealth Orbital Nuke Control Centre
Speaking of, are any of the VtM branded CYOAs or visual novels worth the time? I only attempted Night Road and to be honest, it was quite bad.
Yes, there's three, but Night Road was 1/3 and you didn't like it, so who knows. I think you should try Blood Frontier as its the closest to Bloodlines in terms of feeling. I recommend it to Storyfag too because there's some good szlachta content.
Haven't reached the szlachta content yet, but the mass Embrace was written very well. Also "well, some people think Caine is a cabbie in L.A." gave me a chuckle. I did, however, nearly throw up at the mention of "Rudi, a gay fellow, and a Muslim too". The thing that has me chuckle the most tho? The vivid descriptions of colours things have. At night.
 

ColaWerewolf

Educated
Joined
Feb 6, 2021
Messages
149
Haven't reached the szlachta content yet, but the mass Embrace was written very well. Also "well, some people think Caine is a cabbie in L.A." gave me a chuckle. I did, however, nearly throw up at the mention of "Rudi, a gay fellow, and a Muslim too". The thing that has me chuckle the most tho? The vivid descriptions of colours things have. At night.
I'll have to replay/read it, I forgot about those references until you mentioned them just now. Do you listen to a playlist when reading it? If so, post it.
 

Storyfag

Perfidious Pole
Patron
Joined
Feb 17, 2011
Messages
17,032
Location
Stealth Orbital Nuke Control Centre
Haven't reached the szlachta content yet, but the mass Embrace was written very well. Also "well, some people think Caine is a cabbie in L.A." gave me a chuckle. I did, however, nearly throw up at the mention of "Rudi, a gay fellow, and a Muslim too". The thing that has me chuckle the most tho? The vivid descriptions of colours things have. At night.
I'll have to replay/read it, I forgot about those references until you mentioned them just now. Do you listen to a playlist when reading it? If so, post it.
Mostly whatever the youtube algorithm learned is appropriate for me, so lots of C&C/Dune 2000/Emperor, Dawn of War, Mechanicus, Bloodlines, Redemption, Witcher, Rome Total War, Stellaris, Star Wars, Conan, Transformers, LotR, the main themes for Robocop, Terminator, Superman, Blade Runner, Pacific Rim, and sprinkles of other stuff.

I did, however, listen exclusively to the Redemption OST while playing Parliament of Knives, and found it a perfect fit. I'd wager, given The Blood Frontier's setting, that some Ennio Moricone wouldn't be amiss.
 

Shaja

Educated
Joined
Nov 12, 2023
Messages
174
Location
Santa Monica Pier
The Entity from Bloohunt looks much better than Bloodlines 2. But of course, Czech people are much better fashionable.

7c3c2039c904050a0849314ff8a911f58744a74d.png
 

As an Amazon Associate, rpgcodex.net earns from qualifying purchases.
Back
Top Bottom