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Nah, Mitsoda couldn't fix HSL's mess, he's not a one-man studio.
But HSL was definitely making a mess of his design due to their incompetence. The rest is speculation. Yet, we could've done with another well-written and well-designed RPG with subpar gameplay; seems like HSL wasn't even at that level.
"We obviously spoke to several different studios when looking for a new partner, we needed a studio that really got narrative and could understand emotion, and know the importance of great dialogue and communicating that on a high level—these are all areas that The Chinese Room has been awarded for," said Greaney.
"The Chinese Room came to us with very high ambition and a plan to get there while also understanding the scale and growth it took to get there. The Chinese Room is also a part of the Sumo Digital group, and they have many other resources to pull from."
“We went out and we spoke to a lot of studios,” Grady said. “There were a few factors in there because of the franchise we’re in. One of those factors is obviously the ability to handle a narrative in a mature, adult way, and also an ability to handle narratives that are very grounded in what’s still very much our world with an angle on them. That’s very much the World of Darkness, but also the Chinese Room.”
But HSL was definitely making a mess of his design due to their incompetence. The rest is speculation. Yet, we could've done with another well-written and well-designed RPG with subpar gameplay; seems like HSL wasn't even at that level.
Back in the day Bloodlines got me into WoD, but I gotta say these days I find the setting a bit shit. My main gripe is that as alternative history, it doesn't make any fucking sense. If you're going to say that the world is an exact copy of ours, but with monsters, I understand the kind of immediate appeal, but it is lazy. If vampires were a thing no doubt civilisations would have grown very differently. When I cooked campaigns I was tempted to re-write the setting entirely : in my view the world would be stuck in antiquity in terms of technology, you'd get these great blood-worshipping states, vampires transforming into lovecraftian horrors, great swathes of mutated revenants, weird philosophy and art, futile attempts at resistance and so on. In typical WoD vampires are fragile and human, but this is boring. With 5e and the second inquisition, vampires' power is nothing. They don't even know how the stockmarket works - I don't know if anyone does, but hey ; they feel like they are kind of relegated to petty criminality, looking like Sopranos mafia, it's pretty pathetic. I an elder could even kill 16 czechoslovakians, they would just run around with their shitty 5e gimped celerity
What makes you think it was a rehash, rather than a continuation that takes in account what was done before?
I think you're just jumping to conclusions because you don't like Mitsoda for some reason. Personally, if it is to be a badly written mess, I'd rather Mitsoda fuck it up than anyone else. It was his vision in BL1 that made it good.
Hardsuit Labs wasn't ideal, but with MCA and Mitsoda they still had a fighting chance, but no, let's give this game to a bunch of nobodies, that never worked together before, that decided that the best way to present their vision is a montage of faceless goons being punched like Street Fighter or something, and showcase the many cool vampire powers you'll have, like, uh... *checks notes* shockwaving people into the air (and again, and again), and don't forget the instakill over-the-top "press the awesome button" takedowns.
It's very entertaining because it's a short and unexpected break from the otherwise action-saturated gameplay, also you don't know the first time around if and when some physical enemies might show up.
Behead those who compare VtM:B to walking simulators.
And that tiny bit of shit footage is representative of Mitsoda's skill, instead of Bloodlines itself?
We know even good devs produce shit in bad work environments, especially in woke environments, as the product is the result of a team effort. As an analogy, see for example Cavill in The Witcher series. Add to that the fact that Mitsoda seems like a poor leader, a guy that would get pushed by peer pressure... But that is all speculation really. What we do know is that Bloodlines 1 had most of its writing made by Mitsoda, and it was good.
#1 thing he valued was freedom in his writing, in this RPS interview:
RPS: What were the best and worst things about that game from a writing standpoint?
Mitsoda: The Best – Freedom to do what I wanted with the writing. Not having to sanitize the language or content, which meant I got to work with some more mature elements outside of casually slipping f-bombs into the script.
I don't think I saw that. Personally, I agree with GhostCow that the Ocean House was the worst quest in the game. Dunno why people liked it so much, it felt so artificial. But god forbid that Bloodlines 2 includes a new iteration of something that was really liked in the original. It's like it's a sequel or something!
Aside from that, if the team was truly incompetent, you gotta do the best with what you have, Mitsoda can't do anything about it. The Ocean House is fairly simple in terms of gameplay, and the story is kinda separate, not really impacting the gameplay itself. To make it better would require more design that would impact gameplay, and that was probably out of the reach of the team.
In any case, I'm just saying Mitsoda was a lot of what was good in Bloodlines, and we can't just assume he'd shit the bed if given the same conditions to work in as for the original.
Eh, having a single quest that is "smoke but no fire" is nothing dramatic. Certainly not to the point to try and frame it as "one of the first examples of a walking sim experience". Walking sims are walking sims when the entire game is about walking.
You're being fabulously optimistic here, I fear. I doubt that Mitsoda could do something like Bloodlines, because we have many games made by big names from the past who ended up making mediocre RPGs. And, yes, that "tiny bit of shit footage" is proof. Unlike trying to claim that Mitsoda could keep his writing at Bloodlines 1 level after all this time and being surrounded by the kind of people we have seen in Hardsuit Labs. There were more red flags there than not and that, too, is a fact.
I don't think I saw that. Personally, I agree with @GhostCow that the Ocean House was the worst quest in the game. Dunno why people liked it so much, it felt so artificial.
That's a pretty big "if". Nevermind Mitsoda's level, we do KNOW he wasn't given the same conditions to work, because people who worked with him were different (and not better than the people who work on Bloodlines 1). Or do we have to go over all of the previous studio's puzzling decisions?
At the end of the day Mitsoda and co were given the chance. They had five years before they were canned. I’d like to think they had an interesting narrative but unless there are leaks from people we’ll never really know. I’d also love to get to see the assets from the final HSL build.
That's a pretty big "if". Nevermind Mitsoda's level, we do KNOW he wasn't given the same conditions to work, because people who worked with him were different (and not better than the people who work on Bloodlines 1). Or do we have to go over all of the previous studio's puzzling decisions?
Of course he didn't have that at HSL. But to tell if Mitsoda's still got it or not, that's what it would take. I'm just saying that the shit produced at HSL might not be representative of his current capabilities.
Citation needed. He joined the project almost a full year late. This was the pitch for VtMB before Mitsoda joined the team.
Every game of chess begins with one move.
Your story begins on a rain-soaked evening, in a pay-by-the-hour motel just off the Sunset Strip. You are the bastard property of an anarch Lick, sired against the Traditions of the Kindred. Your fate was sealed before the man's[?] teeth ever punctured your neck. An outcast to both kine and Kindred, you wander the streets until you are hunted down and brought before the newly appointed Camarilla prince. The prince, holding only the most tenuous of authority in an anarch city like Los Angeles, is forced to hand down harsh judgment. Your sire is killed immediately. You are given a difficult ordeal to prove your worth.
In chess, small moves start the game, but they are always the most important.
From there, it's a stark, sinister ride through the shadowed warrens of Los Angeles, from the smoky, neon-cast rooms of the underground club scene to hidden vampire fortresses in the Hollywood hills. Along the way, a mystery begins to take shape involving the most powerful of Cainite society and other supernatural creatures. You don't know who to trust. Perhaps it is all an elaborate hoax created by the Malkavians, or a trap set by the Society of Leopold? And it seems that someone, or something, is helping you. Pushing you in certain directions. Or perhaps it is everything else that is being pushed around you.
Chess masters can see many moves in advance. Some can play the whole game before it even begins.
Welcome to the world of Vampire: Bloodlines
A Camarilla prince has moved into LA, looking for a way to establish his authority. Having secretly negotiated an agreement, the Kuei-Jin have begun to perpetuate the myth that Jeremy MacNeil was not actually killed in the battle of Signal Hill and that he has returned to Los Angeles. At the same time, the Kuei-Jin have begun to commit vampiric crimes in the city, and are making it look as if MacNeil is doing them. All of this is to undermine the anarch's belief in their fallen leader, and to have them turn to the prince for their new leadership. The Kuei-Jin, unbeknownst to the prince, hope to use this situation to establish their own power in L.A., wiping out both the anarchs and the Camarilla.
The PC, newly and illicitly Embraced, is shown mercy by the prince and is allowed to prove himself through an ordeal. After completing this, he begins to work for Anastasz di Zagreb, a Tremere justicar, sent by the Camarilla to investigate a report of diablerie. Strangely, the Ankaran Sarcophagus, a newly discovered ancient relic from Turkey, has "disappeared into thin air," stolen from the Museum of Natural History. The prince, worried about violations of the Masquerade (as well as the possible importance of the sarcophagus to the thieves, who he assumes are Kindred) has the PC begin to investigate the matter.
The story begins to unfold. Half of the time the PC is working for the justicar (who knows nothing of the prince's machinations, but is beginning to suspect) gathering the 'evidence' against MacNeil, and the other half of the time he is looking into the Ankaran Sarcophagus. It is while the PC is investigating the sarcophagus that he eventually finds the clues that lead him to discover the connection between the prince and the Kuei-Jin, and allow for the final conflict, and resolution of the story.
The assumption, presented in more detail in the following section, is that a very powerful vampire introduced the Ankaran Sarcophagus to the situation in LA. Seeing the possible implications of a power shift to the Kuei-Jin, he masterminds a plot to expose the connection between the prince and the Kuei-Jin, and neutralize them both.
Furthermore he was delusional and thought LaCroix wasn't a one dimensional villain.
This extends to his villain design, as Mitsoda is “really tired of bad guys who are evil just because.” with one of his most iconic villains, LaCroix, being designed as “someone that the player would love to hate but… a plausible villain.”
He wasn't the only writer, you also had Chad Moore, Jason D Anderson, among other contributors.
Chad Moore resume:
LEAD DESIGNER/LEAD ARTIST – TROIKA GAMES 1999-2003
Troika Games was founded by the original creators of the award-winning Fallout franchise, and I was
one of a tight-knit group of industry veterans who helped define a game vision and make it a reality.
The studio had deep roots in making compelling RPGs, and I was instrumental in IP development,
narrative design and content implementation for two of their most successful and innovative games.
PROJECT: Vampire the Masquerade: Bloodlines (PC)
• Wrote a compelling main story arc in a modern-day Los Angeles World of Darkness • Created unique voices and engaging dialog for an edgy collection of complex characters
• Worked directly with White Wolf to ensure accurate representation of the popular V:tM IP
• Modeled high-detail characters for use in Valve's proprietary Source engine.
PROJECT: Arcanum: Of Steamworks And Magick Obscura (PC)
• Collaborated to develop compelling story and lore in a unique fantasy-steampunk setting
• Developed origin stories, quest lines and rich dialog for memorable NPCs and followers
• Implemented engaging game content and scripts using proprietary tools and editors
• Modeled, textured, and animated characters and creatures that resonated with the IP
Bloodlines was a true story-driven RPG, and I was involved in creating a lot of the game's narrative content. First and foremost, I wrote dialog for a number of the game's iconic characters, and was involved in designing unique language for player responses related to their chosen clan. I also worked extensively on the game's tutorial experience, which served to introduce players to the World of Darkness, as well as teaching them the base mechanics of the game. And lastly, I wrote and implemented content for supporting narrative systems - like newspapers and computer terminals
I remember meeting Dale in the HSL video session when they showed me the game and talking with him was Mitsoda at his best, absolutely funny! I don't know if he was involved much with either the Ocean House quest or the new clinic copy of it. Not much writing needed in both and at least the Ocean House in Bloodlines 1 is important showing to the player that he is not omnipotent and has to fear other supernatural beings that he can't fight. They kind of missed that in the clinic copy though which already says something. As for Damsel, I saw her during the court room scene and I'm not sure if I remember it correctly, but I think when I asked about her, they told me she was just a stand-in for a missing model. If that is true, they decided to include her later...
Much of what I know is from memory, but we have some info in the RPS interview (my highlights):
RPS: Let's talk about Troika: how did you become involved in the Bloodlines project?
Mitsoda: Bloodlines was already into production when I joined Troika. The Half-Life 2 engine wasn’t finished. There was some preliminary design and some levels built, but most of the work that was there was revamped and, for the most part, the design was started from scratch.
RPS: How did you go about creating the plot and dialog? Can you describe the overall process? There's a number of writers credited, plus the design team, what influence did you have in that wider creative circle?
Mitsoda:The basic plot was kind of there – there’s a new prince in town, there’s a group of anarchs that are pissed, ties to Gehenna event, and Jack and the sarcophagus being a major story point. The designers (about five people) discussed some ways to tie everything into the hubs and levels. With the broader elements agreed upon, we had a lot of control over our sections of the game. Keep in mind, it was a small team doing everything – two writer/designers, one modeler/senior designer, and two owners/producers/designers. With just a few people overseeing every aspect, it doesn’t take as long to reach a consensus or keep plot straight.
Over time, I became primarily tasked with writing the majority of the characters and dialogue, and that helped with consistency. I probably had to argue points a few times, but because of time constraints or faith in my abilities, I was given a lot of freedom with characters and their quests.
There's more in the interview, but basically the questions confirm he wrote pretty much most of the game, even computer e-mails and especially the radio scripts (he actually voices some creepy characters on the radio too). It specifies that the porn dungeons were his risk to take, that he wrote all the Malkavian dialogue last (which made it possible for them to have precognition), that he burnt out after having written the game, and that he knew writing Bloodlines was "it" for him.
You can recognize Mitsoda's style too. Even if Alpha Protocol was taken from him, the best character, Steven Heck, is recognizably his, and MCA said it stayed true to Mitsoda's vision.
There's more that confirms all this, but I'm lazy.
In 2020, yes. I wouldn't judge a writer's output today on something he wrote 20 years ago.
Also, Dead State was awful. I was expecting a decently-written game with repetitive gameplay and got a whole big pile of nothing with no motivation to continue after the first week.
We know even good devs produce shit in bad work environments, especially in woke environments, as the product is the result of a team effort. As an analogy, see for example Cavill in The Witcher series. Add to that the fact that Mitsoda seems like a poor leader, a guy that would get pushed by peer pressure... But that is all speculation really. What we do know is that Bloodlines 1 had most of its writing made by Mitsoda, and it was good.
I don't see Mitsoda as a guy who gets pushed around. The dude is 6'4/193 cm. He kicks chairs in meetings when he's angry. He either quit in frustration or was fired for insubordination on Alpha Protocol. According to Avellone, he rejected every piece of writing Chris submitted for Bloodlines 2 because it didn't fit his vision. The broody fingerless gloves broken bird routine is to pick up chicks.
I'm all for having another quest with no NPCs to talk to or fight. But yet another haunted house? That's the insufferable nostalgia sequel school of design. I don't want Bloodlines: The Force Awakens.
Skidmore said:
"We don't want it to be just a sort of poor homage or pastiche of Bloodlines 1. We want it to be its own thing,"
Bloodlines was already into production when I joined Troika. The Half-Life 2 engine wasn’t finished. There was some preliminary design and some levels built, but most of the work that was there was revamped and, for the most part, the design was started from scratch.
This was due to over-commitment and fabulously optimistic expectations by the team, but it wasn't Mitsoda who fixed it, it was David Mullich.
David Mullich said:
I was then assigned to produce Vampire: The Masquerade - Bloodlines, which was already a year or more into development without an Activision producer being attached to ensure that everything was running smoothly. As a result, things were in a pretty sorry state when I came aboard: an unfinished design and game engine, technical problems with the multiplayer code, many game levels that were created and then thrown out, and so on.
It's too bad Sawyer wasn't on the team because if he were then we'd know for sure who contributed what, where.
Let's at least make one thing clear, design and gameplay credit has to be given to Jason D. Anderson and Leonard Boyarsky. There's plenty of gamedev diaries out there that show how they came up with the game's atmosphere and gameplay foundations. Mitsoda had nothing to do with that.
The writing part is more tricky. We know for certain that he didn't write Jack or Strauss. His biggest independent addition was likely Romero. A lot of the in-game flavor text was also not written by him.
Chad created the overall story for Bloodlines, as well as narrative content, including writing dialog for many of the game's characters and some of the unique Malkavian player responses, as well as in-game newspapers and computer terminals. In his role as a 3D artist, Chad designed the look of many of the PCs and NPCs.
Perhaps the most damning thing against Mitsoda is that he is rarely talked about by the rest of the old Troika staff. They didn't even include him in their in-game group eastereggs. He was outside of the Boyarsky-Anderson-Moore-Cain-Ashton Kool Klub.
He did, this is what he had to say about the OG Ocean House.
Mitsoda said:
Ocean House – The way I approached that level was by studying up on techniques used in fun houses and hi-tech amusement park rides (like the Back to the Future ride at Universal), and also renting a lot of classic ghost story movies (off the top of my head, “The Changeling”, “The Haunting”, “The Shining” and a couple other “The” movies). Lots of visual/sound tricks to get the player to go exactly where I wanted them to be. I laid it out for build up and suspense with an explosive finale using a quiet, loud, quiet technique, and with the lofty goal of doing a level without any enemies – a lot of people thought I was insane, and maybe that’s true, but I stuck to my guns. So much of the fear in that game was audio-induced and atmospheric – less is more, let the player’s mind do my work for me.
As many people as have enjoyed it, I’m actually disappointed that only about a third of the original design was implemented. I would love to do a “director’s cut” of the Ocean House so to speak in a future game. Something that makes players read a disclaimer before they enter it, something along the lines of: “Warning, by entering this level, you waive all rights to seek dry cleaning compensation from the developers.” That said, I was thrilled to see Gamespy had awarded it PC Level of the Year.
First he says that he didn't do a lot of rewriting for Gary from what was established for that character before joining Troika.
Mitsoda said:
When I signed on, a few of the characters had names and there were some ideas of what they did in the story
[...]
I think the only major character that I did little rewriting on was Gary.
But then later down the line he claims to have written Gary all by himself.
Mitsoda said:
I wrote over seventy of them, including LaCroix, Gary, Jeanette and Therese, Nines, Damsel, Beckett, VV, Caine, Heather, Isaac, Chunk, Pisha, Mercurio, Larry, Samantha, Ji Wen Ja, Yukie, the blood dolls, the radio script, the news, and a lot of ambient stuff
The writing part is more tricky. We know for certain that he didn't write Jack or Strauss. His biggest independent addition was likely Romero. A lot of the in-game flavor text was also not written by him.
At Planet Vampire he did write a big paragraph of who his NPCs were
As I've said, Beckett and Smiling Jack were White Wolf characters. As for developing the others, that was up to the writer/designers. I wrote over seventy of them, including LaCroix, Gary, Jeanette and Therese, Nines, Damsel, Beckett, VV, Caine, Heather, Isaac, Chunk, Pisha, Mercurio, Larry, Samantha, Ji Wen Ja, Yukie, the blood dolls, the radio script, the news, and a lot of ambient stuff I think that covers the stuff I had the most fun with.
TJ Perillo wrote Jack, Ming, Skelter and a few other NPCs. Chad Moore wrote Strauss and wrote/edited some of the NPCs.
Hm, I wouldn't have thought that a writer would have had so much influence on mapping a location itself. If only the developers would have left their names in the maps they designed...
Hm, I wouldn't have thought that a writer would have had so much influence on mapping a location itself. If only the developers would have left their names in the maps they designed...
He wasn't a level designer so I assume he just gave specific directions on what he wanted done. But he phrases it in such a way as if he did the programming and level design himself.
That's another thing, too. He wrote a whopping over 70 NPCs not including Jack, Strauss, Ming, Skelter, "and a few other NPCs".
How is that even possible, Wesp5 would know more but I doubt there's more than 40 unique character models in the game.
Perhaps Gary was a character that had a predetermined build and he just wrote the final dialogue rather than creating the character from scratch.
Mitsoda is a really weird character and apparently difficult to work with. We’ll have to take Wesp’s word that what he saw of BL2 was well written as the rest of us will likely never see it unless someone leaks.
Development went on for another year post him though so he might have only been one of many problems there. The dialogue in the old e3 demo seemed alright with an interesting backstory there , it was the gameplay and other things that seemed lacking.
That's another thing, too. He wrote a whopping over 70 NPCs not including Jack, Strauss, Ming, Skelter, "and a few other NPCs".
How is that even possible, Wesp5 would know more but I doubt there's more than 40 unique character models in the game.
Maybe it's not so lower-budget after all, they're just taking less of the risk.
