World of Darkness Vampire: The Masquerade – Bloodlines 2 - VTMB sequel from The Chinese Room - coming early 2025

[La vie sexuelle]

That's why I have a theory - the entire Paradox department responsible for the World of Darkness is mentally retarded. I don't see any other option. Everything Paradox has done in terms of WoD since purchasing the franchise has been a series of bad decisions.

It might be due to the fact that Paradox had no experience at all with RPGs, they made tactical games only IIRC. Add that to the fact that it's hard to control somebody in the US when you are located in Europa. Especially during Covid...

I think the type of game is not as important as the cultural barrier. Paradox is doing OK in Europe, mainly in Scandinavia ("Cities Skylines" is made in Denmark). Apparently, North American corporate culture is too much for the Swedes.

I wonder how things are going with "Life by You"?

Yes, but if you click on the "World of Darkness" tab you will see everything but World of Darkness. As if they wanted to hide the fact that Paradox outsources WoD to other publishers like Renegade Game Publishing.

That's because once WW started doing oWoD stuff again, they pulled the contract from Onyx Path. No big mystery there.

It has more to do with this: https://techraptor.net/tabletop/new...x-interactive-to-intervene-making-big-changes

I just can't ignore the fact that Paradox gave money to people who didn't know what they were doing

please refer to

you rpg nerds may not know this but this is actually the fourth+ time that paradox was scammed out of millions of dollars by a modder tier development team. twice with actual modders of their games, one of which turned out to be a portuguese schizophrenic with delusions of grandeur, once with feargus 'he who de-owners' urukheart, and now with a seattle no-name team whose only achievement is making an fps nobody knows about.

so what i'm trying to say is that paradox is actually a money laundering operation.

False losses make sense if and only if: a) You successfully deceive the investor, b) The tax office won't catch you. These are usually one-offs, and this Paradox situation has been going on far too long.

I just can't ignore the fact that Paradox gave money to people who didn't know what they were doing

please refer to

you rpg nerds may not know this but this is actually the fourth+ time that paradox was scammed out of millions of dollars by a modder tier development team. twice with actual modders of their games, one of which turned out to be a portuguese schizophrenic with delusions of grandeur, once with feargus 'he who de-owners' urukheart, and now with a seattle no-name team whose only achievement is making an fps nobody knows about.

so what i'm trying to say is that paradox is actually a money laundering operation.

No laundering, they are just that retarded.

Retarded money laundering operation, perhaps?

No laundering, they are just that retarded.

yes and the swiss are wholesome chocolatiers

naive fool

The fact that the Swiss make money by laundering money, raising the children of dictators and protecting the interests of child traffickers does not make their chocolate less sweet or the mountains less pleasant.

 

[skaraher]

a) You successfully deceive the investor, b) The tax office won't catch you.

In Europe, if you do this as blatantly as a false game development, they usually catch you.

 

[Delterius]

False losses make sense if and only if: a) You successfully deceive the investor, b) The tax office won't catch you. These are usually one-offs, and this Paradox situation has been going on far too long.

the thing is that i wrote that joke post before the investment calls confirmed paradox cancels DOZENS OF PROJECTS ALL THE TIME. i am genuinely shocked at the amount of wergeld they make selling eu4 soldier dress up dlc.

 

[La vie sexuelle]

a) You successfully deceive the investor, b) The tax office won't catch you.

In Europe, if you do this as blatantly as a false game development, they usually catch you.

Of course, especially in Sweden. Sometimes, however, something succeeds, and for this to happen, it is necessary to meet the conditions I mentioned.

False losses make sense if and only if: a) You successfully deceive the investor, b) The tax office won't catch you. These are usually one-offs, and this Paradox situation has been going on far too long.

the thing is that i wrote that joke post before the investment calls confirmed paradox cancels DOZENS OF PROJECTS ALL THE TIME. i am genuinely shocked at the amount of wergeld they make selling eu4 soldier dress up dlc.

And I do not. Paradox strategies are "game services" and have been so long before this term was invented.

We, Paradoxians, are junkies. We can't give up our dealer, even though our asses hurts terribly.

 

[Wesp5]

I think the type of game is not as important as the cultural barrier. Paradox is doing OK in Europe, mainly in Scandinavia ("Cities Skylines" is made in Denmark). Apparently, North American corporate culture is too much for the Swedes.

Maybe, but even the German producer I talked with left Paradox before the Mitsoda fiasko because it didn't work out with him and Paradox. And man, from what I remember, he and Mitsoda so wanted to make Bloodlines 2!

 

[skaraher]

And I do not. Paradox strategies are "game services" and have been so long before this term was invented.

We, Paradoxians, are junkies. We can't give up our dealer, even though our asses hurts terribly.

I gave up Paradocks for good after the Stellaris shitshow

 

[Wesp5]

I gave up Paradocks for good after the Stellaris shitshow

What was this about?

 

[La vie sexuelle]

Did this German tell you any details about this cooperation? Or at least about the atmosphere around it?

 

[Roguey]

Did this German tell you any details about this cooperation? Or at least about the atmosphere around it?

He gave his thoughts in a not-quite-anonymous glassdoor review https://rpgcodex.net/forums/threads...inese-room-coming-in-2024.126124/post-7443925

 

[scytheavatar]

The reality is that Bloodlines 2 is a gigantic project and giving the game to a little proven studio like Hardsuit Labs was already a terrible idea. Yet options for Paradox is limited and they fucked up the moment they tried to make the game in the first place. You could see the same thing with the KOTOR remake and how even Microsoft knew it's doomed to fail when given to a nothing studio like Aspyr.

Did this German tell you any details about this cooperation? Or at least about the atmosphere around it?

He gave his thoughts in a not-quite-anonymous glassdoor review https://rpgcodex.net/forums/threads...inese-room-coming-in-2024.126124/post-7443925

Sounds like Paradox gave Hardsuit Labs too much rope and they complained about Paradox cleaning up the corpse when they already hanged themselves. Paradox deserves blame but ultimately no one can deny that most of the blame has to go to Mitsoda and gang for their incompetence.

 

[Irxy]

I'm wondering... The first information about this game was from 2018. Harduits Labs worked on it until 2021, four years. Sometime that same year, the Chinese Room takes over production and intends to release it in 2024, about three years after production. If they need that much time to finish, how bad was what Hardsuit Labs left behind?

The Hardsuit Labs game version has been completed - playable from start to finish with all planned content and mechanics ready, with only polishing remaining.
The Chinese Room have pretty much restarted the development from scratch. They are reusing some assets (I guess that means models and maybe some levels), but otherwise its going to be a new game with a new story & gameplay.
Frankly the situation is kind of weird. The few people who played it and could report it say the game was fun enough. So why scrap the finished game at all? It's not like Paradox is exactly rich or cares too much about IP (considering the amount of total rubbish they've released under it over the years).
I hope this stuff will go public at some point. Also would be fun to get a hold on the Hardsuit Labs game version.

 

[Child of Malkav]

I don't understand. If the chinese room bit more than they can chew then wouldn't it make sense for them to reuse as much as possible from the previous work done by Hardsuit labs? I don't think they reworked everything from zero. It doesn't make sense. And the release is 2024. There's no way. In the trailer you can see some of the vampiric powers like hovering and that explosion thing that were also shown in the previous vtmb 2 videos from Hardsuit labs.

 

[Harthwain]

Frankly the situation is kind of weird. The few people who played it and could report it say the game was fun enough. So why scrap the finished game at all?

What makes you think it was finished? From my understanding they showed demos and slices, without having the whole game ready.

 

[The President]

Are we sure that’s the same producer Wesp spoke to? If so, wow that’s a damming indictment. 4 good things to say with like 20 negative. Granted paradox now once again has their original CEO back when I believe it was another one during most of this shitshow.

I’m also curious on this new game how much of the old assets are they using. Is this new Seattle going to look like the real one or be something completely different.

 

[Wesp5]

What makes you think it was finished? From my understanding they showed demos and slices, without having the whole game ready.

I believe Outstar once claimed she played it and liked it. As for reusing assets, I played the HSL shooter before it was shut down because of Bloodlines 2 and the maps were fine! So as they seemed to have rebuild great parts of Seattle in Unreal engine, we could see that in the Slug-Demo, it would be really wasteful of TCR to not use these maps...

 

[Wesp5]

Are we sure that’s the same producer Wesp spoke to?

There were 2 German producers working on Bloodlines 2, so we don't know who wrote this. As far as I remember both left before HSL was fired, but this one line is so obvious targeted at Mitsoda and Co.:
"Too hands off with pipelines then suddenly too hands on and punishing to the point of people losing their jobs"

 

[Irxy]

Frankly the situation is kind of weird. The few people who played it and could report it say the game was fun enough. So why scrap the finished game at all?

What makes you think it was finished? From my understanding they showed demos and slices, without having the whole game ready.

From this post:

I come bearing tiny gifts of Bloodlines 2 drama from stuff made available by one drunk person at a media event in Brighton, UK. This was back in August. I don't really have anything better than this as a "source" so if you want to tell me to fuck myself, I completely understand, but I see we're having fun with the CDPR 4Chan post so why not this as well.

1. The Chinese Room is in fact the new studio for Bloodlines 2. This wasn't The Chinese Room's choice. This was Sumo, their parent company's choice. Some in the studio aren't happy with this due to being treated like a boutique studio who can turn around some disaster into an RPG but they're trying hence why they're going on a hiring spree for a new branch they've opened up.

2. Hardsuit Labs sent Bloodlines 2 in a over a thousand zipped files that were randomly numbered. Some say it was because Hardsuit Labs were disorganized. Others say they did it as a "fuck you." Either way, the final verdict on Hardsuit's game from Paradox was "not fun." Others say it was a "total disaster."

3. The Chinese Room are going to try to re-use whatever assets they can. The writing, the missions, the characters are all being done from scratch. I don't know if they're going to keep some of the characters that have been shown off to the public but basically, it's safe to expect a different story set in Seattle.

4. Like any project hand-over, most of it had to be thrown out. The lighting from Hardsuit's version was, "completely fucking broken."

5. Hardsuit did """"""""finish"""""""" the game. It was technically playable from beginning to end and content complete.

6. The Chinese Room has got like ~2ish years to get this game out the door. Mostly junior staff are working on it.

While a leak, since everything else turned out to be true...

 

[ColaWerewolf]

Frankly the situation is kind of weird. The few people who played it and could report it say the game was fun enough. So why scrap the finished game at all?

the final verdict on Hardsuit's game from Paradox was "not fun." Others say it was a "total disaster."

It's not like Paradox is exactly rich or cares too much about IP (considering the amount of total rubbish they've released under it over the years).

The WoD IP? To my knowledge they haven't published anything. The werewolf game and Swansong were both funded and published by Nacon, pdx just gave them permission. Same with the CYOA novels.

 

[Grunker]

Did this German tell you any details about this cooperation? Or at least about the atmosphere around it?

He gave his thoughts in a not-quite-anonymous glassdoor review https://rpgcodex.net/forums/threads/vampire-the-masquerade-–-bloodlines-2-vtmb-sequel-from-the-chinese-room-coming-in-2024.126124/post-7443925

You never told me your own guess, R. I say this is going to be a total collapse of a jankfest. Maybe not notoriously poor in a memorable sense, but I foresee it'll clearly not be an honest effort/ok game in the rough. It'll be unequivocally bad.

What's your prediction?

 

[scytheavatar]

The Hardsuit Labs game version has been completed - playable from start to finish with all planned content and mechanics ready, with only polishing remaining.

Means nothing................. polishing is the most important part of the game dev process and can take far more time and effort than what many realize. FFXVI and Baldur's Gate 3 was in the polishing stage for 1 year. It would still be a significant amount of dev time and money that needs to be poured into the game before it is in a releasable state, and if Paradox decided the Hardsuit game wasn't good enough to be worth pouring more money into why would you disagree with them?

It's not like Paradox is exactly rich or cares too much about IP (considering the amount of total rubbish they've released under it over the years).

Paradox is in a difficult position because the strategy genre has shrank a lot in recent times. They need to branch out of strategy games in order to survive, and Bloodlines 2 is a very important part of that.

 

[ColaWerewolf]

I think it'll be an honest, heartfelt effort by TCR but it won't meet the expectations people have for Bloodlines 2.

It resonates with what their community manager said, that he loves the game and the IP but is afraid of people's expectations being too high, which means the game isn't some boundary-pushing excellency.

 

[Cricket McBangle]

Paradox is in a difficult position because the strategy genre has shrank a lot in recent times. They need to branch out of strategy games in order to survive, and Bloodlines 2 is a very important part of that.

I don't think this is true. As far as strategy games dying overall, I can't really speak to that but it seems like Paradox has reliable fanbases that will eat up anything they put out. Plus Cities Skylines 2 is going to probably make them very happy, it just seems like Bloodlines 2 will determine whether or not they pursue Action-RPGs again.

 

[Roguey]

The few people who played it and could report it say the game was fun enough.

I wouldn't trust Paradox employees like Outshill.

I don't understand. If the chinese room bit more than they can chew then wouldn't it make sense for them to reuse as much as possible from the previous work done by Hardsuit labs? I don't think they reworked everything from zero. It doesn't make sense. And the release is 2024. There's no way. In the trailer you can see some of the vampiric powers like hovering and that explosion thing that were also shown in the previous vtmb 2 videos from Hardsuit labs.

Gonna drag this link out again https://askagamedev.tumblr.com/post/644203572507082752/a-bunch-of-you-have-questions-about-project

The quick version is that it would take far more time learning how to figure out HSL's cobbled code than it would be to start over themselves. Three+ years is enough time to make a role-playing game that doesn't try to take a kitchen sink approach or do too much.

You never told me your own guess, R. I say this is going to be a total collapse of a jankfest. Maybe not notoriously poor in a memorable sense, but I foresee it'll clearly not be an honest effort/ok game in the rough. It'll be unequivocally bad.

What's your prediction?

I don't know. Teaser trailers barely tell you anything, I'll need to see what they have in January or possibly even later. I have more optimism in this premise than Mitsoda's, that's it.

 

[Child of Malkav]

The quick version is that it would take far more time learning how to figure out HSL's cobbled code than it would be to start over themselves.

Yeah, the code. But the assets and everything else? They must have kept them right?

 

[Roguey]

Yeah, the code. But the assets and everything else? They must have kept them right?

In all the interviews they said they're reusing as much art and level design as they can.