World of Darkness Vampire: The Masquerade – Bloodlines 2 - VTMB sequel from The Chinese Room - coming early 2025

[Harthwain]

Sure! You can argue a great many things. I'm one of those people who prefers the concept of a Hunter game where you're a normal bucko trying to kill the neighborhood Nosferatu, rather than a holy vatican law soldier.

Honestly, I would like to see either, because there aren't that many vampire hunter games out there. Much less a detective-style gothic-atmosphere vampire hunter game.

But I'm talking about marketing there. And even this thread probably retains some post or another of people bitching that they are playing a shittier vampire.

To be honest, I think the fame of Bloodlines alone is good enough for marketing purposes. And while a thinblood is "a shittier vampire", I doubt the unwashed masses would know of it (the Codex isn't exactly a good barometer of an average player's expectations or behavior). I even hazard a guess that'd be a refreshing take on vampirism for a lot of people. Unless most people want a power fantasy, that is.

 

[Delterius]

Unless most people want a power fantasy, that is.

That's what I'm afraid of. Or, rather, that there could be this lingering fear in the marketing department. I can imagine people discussing the thinblood idea and putting it out there that you just can't make a game about vampire the masquerade and prevent the player from choosing a clan.

 

[Wesp5]

Sure! You can argue a great many things. I'm one of those people who prefers the concept of a Hunter game where you're a normal bucko trying to kill the neighborhood Nosferatu, rather than a holy vatican law soldier.

Honestly, I would like to see either, because there aren't that many vampire hunter games out there. Much less a detective-style gothic-atmosphere vampire hunter game.

In the latest Unoffcial Patch you can replay some combat missions as a hunter, intended as proof of concept for possible multiplayer coop maps, and there even is a Bloodlines mod in which you play as a hunter with story missions:
https://www.moddb.com/mods/vtmb-prelude/downloads/bloodlines-prelude-i-v18

 

[Storyfag]

And even this thread probably retains some post or another of people bitching that they are playing a shittier vampire.

That'd be me. I hate the spotlight the thinbloods are getting in V5 with a passion that'd make a Brujah stop in his tracks.

 

[scytheavatar]

The way I see it, the problem with the thinblood concept is two fold. First, one of marketing, ie the idea that playing a thinblood is merely playing a vampire except shittier.

Actually, you could argue that playing as a thinblood had potential. First of all - you can show the player that playing as a vampire isn't as fantastic as some people might think when they think or talk about becoming a vampire. Being a pariah of the vampire society would also be a good excuse to make the player take part in lower aspects of it, while still keeping them superior to human. It seemed to go that way in the beginning, considering the early reveal material for Bloodlines 2. Throw in a resource-limited system and it could've been an interesting game (at least on paper).

You should know by now that modern day RPG players don't want player dis-empowerment. They want to feel that they eventually become superheroes and power houses, rather than being doomed to become just another peon. The original vision is something that would appeal only to a niche audience. It is for this reason that we should be praying that we never see Dark Sun being released for 5e.

 

[deuxhero]

The way I see it, the problem with the thinblood concept is two fold. First, one of marketing, ie the idea that playing a thinblood is merely playing a vampire except shittier.

Actually, you could argue that playing as a thinblood had potential. First of all - you can show the player that playing as a vampire isn't as fantastic as some people might think when they think or talk about becoming a vampire. Being a pariah of the vampire society would also be a good excuse to make the player take part in lower aspects of it, while still keeping them superior to human. It seemed to go that way in the beginning, considering the early reveal material for Bloodlines 2. Throw in a resource-limited system and it could've been an interesting game (at least on paper).

Sure! You can argue a great many things. I'm one of those people who prefers the concept of a Hunter game where you're a normal bucko trying to kill the neighborhood Nosferatu, rather than a holy vatican law soldier. But I'm talking about marketing there. And even this thread probably retains some post or another of people bitching that they are playing a shittier vampire.

I think a Monster Hunter International base X-Com like (build base, send out employees to kill monsters that pop up) would be neat. Work better than the mess that is WoD's Hunter.

 

[ColaWerewolf]

There is a certain appeal to being a thinblood and choosing your clan by actively plotting to commit diablerie on a Kindred of a specific clan. It's a more active, in-game approach to obtaining a clan as opposed to passively waiting for the sire to choose you. Somewhat reminiscent of WoD Dracula not being Embraced by Ruthven's choice, but by capturing the elder vampire, turning him into a bitch, and forcing him to do the Embrace.

There's no way that's how it would've gone down in the HSL game, though.

 

[La vie sexuelle]

Did this German tell you any details about this cooperation? Or at least about the atmosphere around it?

He gave his thoughts in a not-quite-anonymous glassdoor review https://rpgcodex.net/forums/threads/vampire-the-masquerade-–-bloodlines-2-vtmb-sequel-from-the-chinese-room-coming-in-2024.126124/post-7443925

Thank you.

The reality is that Bloodlines 2 is a gigantic project and giving the game to a little proven studio like Hardsuit Labs was already a terrible idea. Yet options for Paradox is limited and they fucked up the moment they tried to make the game in the first place. You could see the same thing with the KOTOR remake and how even Microsoft knew it's doomed to fail when given to a nothing studio like Aspyr.

Did this German tell you any details about this cooperation? Or at least about the atmosphere around it?

He gave his thoughts in a not-quite-anonymous glassdoor review https://rpgcodex.net/forums/threads/vampire-the-masquerade-–-bloodlines-2-vtmb-sequel-from-the-chinese-room-coming-in-2024.126124/post-7443925

Sounds like Paradox gave Hardsuit Labs too much rope and they complained about Paradox cleaning up the corpse when they already hanged themselves. Paradox deserves blame but ultimately no one can deny that most of the blame has to go to Mitsoda and gang for their incompetence.

I'm wondering... The first information about this game was from 2018. Harduits Labs worked on it until 2021, four years. Sometime that same year, the Chinese Room takes over production and intends to release it in 2024, about three years after production. If they need that much time to finish, how bad was what Hardsuit Labs left behind?

The Hardsuit Labs game version has been completed - playable from start to finish with all planned content and mechanics ready, with only polishing remaining.
The Chinese Room have pretty much restarted the development from scratch. They are reusing some assets (I guess that means models and maybe some levels), but otherwise its going to be a new game with a new story & gameplay.
Frankly the situation is kind of weird. The few people who played it and could report it say the game was fun enough. So why scrap the finished game at all? It's not like Paradox is exactly rich or cares too much about IP (considering the amount of total rubbish they've released under it over the years).
I hope this stuff will go public at some point. Also would be fun to get a hold on the Hardsuit Labs game version.

In my opinion, HS cheated on Paradox until the end, and the Swedes, in their naivety, allowed themselves to be cheated. After all, all the trailers and companion games were released as if they were to coincide with the turn of the year (I wouldn't be surprised if one of the companion games was delayed for the sake of the release of Bloodlines 2). Eventually all the gadgets came out, Paradox sent someone to the HS office and then it seemed that this game could not be released either at the premiere or even in the same year. I'm not surprised that they wanted to delete it after all this.

If the Chinese Room fails, the shots of cleaned revolvers will resound in the Paradox headquarters.

 

[Fedora Master]

Good, hopefully it breaks PDXs back.

 

[Atlantico]

that I have experienced.

yes but can we trust your expertise you might have taken a vaccine

I find the cope of people who thought they were super smart getting injected with an experimental treatment made by a global pharamaco and pushed by the United States to be very satisfying. You fucked up big time. Just own it.

 

[Delterius]

that I have experienced.

yes but can we trust your expertise you might have taken a vaccine

I find the cope of people who thought they were super smart getting injected with an experimental treatment made by a global pharamaco and pushed by the United States to be very satisfying. You fucked up big time. Just own it.

yes i feel the siren call of autism stronger than ever before, i'm even posting in the codex together with y'all

 

[Atlantico]

that I have experienced.

yes but can we trust your expertise you might have taken a vaccine

I find the cope of people who thought they were super smart getting injected with an experimental treatment made by a global pharamaco and pushed by the United States to be very satisfying. You fucked up big time. Just own it.

yes i feel the siren call of autism stronger than ever before, i'm even posting in the codex together with y'all

and posting thoughts on pronoun-impaired vampires in long form, damn that vaccine!

 

[Vincente]

Video games?

 

[Delterius]

Video games?

trivago

 

[Atlantico]

Video games?

The game isn't out yet — if it will ever be out — and most people are just wasting time speculating on rumors and head-canon

At the moment there is no game to discuss, just fanciful guesswork and speculation

 

[True Ukrainian]

Unless most people want a power fantasy, that is.

That's what I'm afraid of. Or, rather, that there could be this lingering fear in the marketing department. I can imagine people discussing the thinblood idea and putting it out there that you just can't make a game about vampire the masquerade and prevent the player from choosing a clan.

You could do it by letting the thin blood player pick one clan discipline, which is allowed under the rules anyway as a perk, and after that pretend to be a member of that clan. In lore its what many caitiff do. Then close to the end of the game, the player is discovered as a dirty thin blood and this development is used to funnel the player toward the final battle.

 

[Herumor]

Good, hopefully it breaks PDXs back.

Never gonna happen, sadly enough, too many people still buying their DLCs for their other games at full price and on release. Royal Court and Tours & Tournaments cost 30 euros and those sure as fuck aren't expansion-tier DLCs to justify that kind of price tag, and yet people still ate it up and keep on buying.

People sure bitched about CA and their greed with Total Warhammer 3 DLC prices, but Paradox seems to get a pass on pulling that kind of shit.

 

[Delterius]

People sure bitched about CA

CA is uniquely magical because they are using all of that money to make the most transparently phony fortnite clone in the world.

 

[The President]

I did think the weird part of the thin blood was how in the demo, they’re fighting an army of thugs with guns and weapons.

How much stronger is a thin blood supposed to be than a human? I would expect several determined and armed people to be a real threat.

 

[Harthwain]

I did think the weird part of the thin blood was how in the demo, they’re fighting an army of thugs with guns and weapons.

And how exactly is this different from Bloodlines 1?

 

[True Ukrainian]

I did think the weird part of the thin blood was how in the demo, they’re fighting an army of thugs with guns and weapons.

And how exactly is this different from Bloodlines 1?

The bloodlines 1 guy was a low generation fledgling. Probably 9th generation. That puts him in the same seniority tier as most modern elders.

The thin blood guy is 14/15th generation and depending on how you interpret the rules, he would have trouble mending wounds or sustaining extended discipline use.

 

[True Ukrainian]

nobody wants to play a fucking "thinblood" (gay), get real

Survival games are a thing.

 

[Jaesun]

Well the game already states "Fight your way through a modern-day Seattle on the brink of an open war as an elder Vampire."

I AM very curious how that is going to work...

 

[True Ukrainian]

Well the game already states "Fight your way through a modern-day Seattle on the brink of an open war as an elder Vampire."

I AM very curious how that is going to work...

All disciplines and skills unlocked, no need to worry about builds, make narrative choices that matter.

 

[Irxy]

I wouldn't trust Paradox employees like Outshill.

I have no idea why people like her - people employed in PR/community manager/shill-in-charge - were ever taken seriously to begin with. She gets paid to tell you it's gonna be good.

True, but she said what she said some time after already quitting the PR job, afair.
It's not like we a have a lot of sources to choose from. She is a fan of the original game and one of the few who played the HSL version and commented on it.
All opinions are subjective, especially when one cannot contractually go into details to explain theirs. Still, if the game was a total shit, she could always have said nothing or use more neutral terms to describe it.