World of Darkness Vampire: The Masquerade – Bloodlines 2 - VTMB sequel from The Chinese Room - coming early 2025

[Atlantico]

That writer Wakefield-Something listed her time at TCR starting from Dec 2021 and lasting for a year afterwards. Mitsoda's firing made news in Aug 2020. So there's some time where Paradox is shopping for a new studio, and some more time where that Studio is structuring itself for a pitch + the conceptualization phase of the project. I also assume they didn't use contractors from the very start. Since the game is announced to late next year, it would seem they'll have around 3 and a half years of development time?

I believe Sumo Digital pitched it to Paradox in late 2020, it just took them until Februrary to officially can Hardsuit. Le Bray joined TCR in April 2021. Longthorne joined in March 2022.

So why would an unrelated third party pitch a development plan to Paradox when a game was still in active development at a Paradox subsidiary?

The story makes no sense unless Paradox asked them.

 

[Roguey]

So why would an unrelated third party pitch a development plan to Paradox when a game was still in active development at a Paradox subsidiary?

The story makes no sense unless Paradox asked them.

It was public knowledge that they had fired Mitsoda and Cluney, hired an Ubisoft hatchet man to try to get it done, and delayed release yet again. Sumo swooping in with "Hey if this doesn't work out, this studio of ours can do it." Wester said that Paradox was ready to cancel the entire venture and just focus forevermore on strategy games until they got the pitch.

 

[The President]

Was there any release of how much exactly paradox has spent on HSL’s or TCR’s build of the game to make this statement. The only thing we do know is TCR was given the work on the prior build.

A write-down of $24 million which aligns with napkin math and a promise to investors to make monetarily smaller investments with their external partners on games outside their core market.

IIRC they wrote down losses from like a dozen games they cancelled. Now let’s operate on the assumption that’s mostly HSL BL2. $24 million can’t be for 5 years of development in a city like Seattle.

 

[Roguey]

IIRC they wrote down losses from like a dozen games they cancelled. Now let’s operate on the assumption that’s mostly HSL BL2. $24 million can’t be for 5 years of development in a city like Seattle.

RPG studios are well-known for their below-average pay. Interplay, inXile, Obsidian, all known for paying peanuts compared to their neighbors.

 

[Atlantico]

So why would an unrelated third party pitch a development plan to Paradox when a game was still in active development at a Paradox subsidiary?

The story makes no sense unless Paradox asked them.

It was public knowledge that they had fired Mitsoda and Cluney, hired an Ubisoft hatchet man to try to get it done, and delayed release yet again. Sumo swooping in with "Hey if this doesn't work out, this studio of ours can do it." Wester said that Paradox was ready to cancel the entire venture and just focus forevermore on strategy games until they got the pitch.

Sure they may well have heard solid rumors, but to make a proper pitch you need to know what is required. It's a project like any project.

Unless Sumo were prepared to finance the development themselves as some kind of a prestige project and eat any loss, they'd need a pretty specific list of requirements from Paradox.

 

[Roguey]

Sure they may well have heard solid rumors, but to make a proper pitch you need to know what is required. It's a project like any project.

Hardsuit Labs also made a completely blind pitch and also made this fact public.

 

[Storyfag]

Posting on page 666.

Has it reached the final death yet?

The Baali approve.

 

[Abu Antar]

Posting on page 666.

Has it reached the final death yet?

If it dies, how will I post impressions?

 

[Cricket McBangle]

So why would an unrelated third party pitch a development plan to Paradox when a game was still in active development at a Paradox subsidiary?

The story makes no sense unless Paradox asked them.

It was public knowledge that they had fired Mitsoda and Cluney, hired an Ubisoft hatchet man to try to get it done, and delayed release yet again. Sumo swooping in with "Hey if this doesn't work out, this studio of ours can do it." Wester said that Paradox was ready to cancel the entire venture and just focus forevermore on strategy games until they got the pitch.

Sure they may well have heard solid rumors, but to make a proper pitch you need to know what is required. It's a project like any project.

Unless Sumo were prepared to finance the development themselves as some kind of a prestige project and eat any loss, they'd need a pretty specific list of requirements from Paradox.

It may not have been as straightforward as just Sumo taking a stab in the dark looking for more work to turn The Chinese Room into their sort of premiere game development studio. Paradox has had to have worked with Tencent to some capacity thus leading to Sumo, who are also owned by Tencent. Tencent was at least a 10% owner in Paradox at some point during the Hardsuit Labs development years and Paradox worked with Sharkmob, another Tencent-owned studio, on Bloodhunt.

Perhaps Tencent assisted with getting Sumo/The Chinese Room the project on Bloodlines 2 to some capacity. Someone at Sharkmob said that they wanted their Battle-Royale Bloodhunt game to follow Bloodlines 2.

Also this wouldn't be the first time Sumo got handed a game in dev hell. They were on Dead Island 2 before it was taken away from them after Deep Silver set up their own studio to do it.

That being said, Brian Mitsoda did say in a Noclip documentary on YouTube they worked on a Bloodlines 2 pitch for months as a stab in the dark even knowing all that work they were doing could only be pitched to Paradox, a company that rejects the vast majority of pitches it gets. They acknowledged it was a stupid thing to do and in the end, I guess they were right.

 

[Atlantico]

So why would an unrelated third party pitch a development plan to Paradox when a game was still in active development at a Paradox subsidiary?

The story makes no sense unless Paradox asked them.

It was public knowledge that they had fired Mitsoda and Cluney, hired an Ubisoft hatchet man to try to get it done, and delayed release yet again. Sumo swooping in with "Hey if this doesn't work out, this studio of ours can do it." Wester said that Paradox was ready to cancel the entire venture and just focus forevermore on strategy games until they got the pitch.

Sure they may well have heard solid rumors, but to make a proper pitch you need to know what is required. It's a project like any project.

Unless Sumo were prepared to finance the development themselves as some kind of a prestige project and eat any loss, they'd need a pretty specific list of requirements from Paradox.

It may not have been as straightforward as just Sumo taking a stab in the dark looking for more work to turn The Chinese Room into their sort of premiere game development studio. Paradox has had to have worked with Tencent to some capacity thus leading to Sumo, who are also owned by Tencent. Tencent was at least a 10% owner in Paradox at some point during the Hardsuit Labs development years and Paradox worked with Sharkmob, another Tencent-owned studio, on Bloodhunt.

Perhaps Tencent assisted with getting Sumo/The Chinese Room the project on Bloodlines 2 to some capacity. Someone at Sharkmob said that they wanted their Battle-Royale Bloodhunt game to follow Bloodlines 2.

That being said, Brian Mitsoda did say in a Noclip documentary on YouTube they worked on a Bloodlines 2 pitch for months as a stab in the dark even knowing all that work they were doing could only be pitched to Paradox, a company that rejects the vast majority of pitches it gets. They acknowledged it was a stupid thing to do and in the end, I guess they were right.

Now this makes more sense. Nothing wrong with making a blind pitch as such, as I said if they want to eat the cost and they did. Cost them the company in the end, because making blind pitches that you cover dev cost yourself are unwise. Ended up costing Paradox as well as they had to pour money into Hardsuit to keep the project afloat.

If Paradox was putting feelers out to their network that they might be open for someone to pick up the Bloodlines 2 project and gave Sumo an outline of what they were thinking and what they already had, then Sumo could reasonably make a balanced pitch for the project. Not likely it was a blind pitch the second time — unless Paradox are unable to learn basic business practices and have massive money to burn. In which case all bets are off.

 

[Skinwalker]

The Chinese Room

Games developed
2008 Conscientious Objector (mod)
2008 Dear Esther (mod)
2008 Antlion Soccer (mod)
2009 Korsakovia (mod)
2012 Dear Esther
2013 Amnesia: A Machine for Pigs
2015 Everybody's Gone to the Rapture
2017 Dear Esther: Landmark Edition
2017 So Let Us Melt
2020 Little Orpheus
2024 Still Wakes the Deep
never Vampire: The Masquerade – Bloodlines 2

Ok, so they've made a few walking simulator mods, then a shit sequel to a shit horror game (that's a walking/hiding simulator), then a shit game for poignant gayme reviewers (mostly soyjacks and pedos), then more shit no one has ever played or heard of, and finally - a sequel to one of the most beloved RPGs of all time that would need to feature a number of different and elaborate gameplay mechanics.

Please let this rape end. Can we leave just a few things unraped? Kill this atrocity before it sees the light of day.

 

[Trithne]

The Chinese Room

Games developed
2008 Conscientious Objector (mod)
2008 Dear Esther (mod)
2008 Antlion Soccer (mod)
2009 Korsakovia (mod)
2012 Dear Esther
2013 Amnesia: A Machine for Pigs
2015 Everybody's Gone to the Rapture
2017 Dear Esther: Landmark Edition
2017 So Let Us Melt
2020 Little Orpheus
2024 Still Wakes the Deep
never Vampire: The Masquerade – Bloodlines 2

Ok, so they've made a few walking simulator mods, then a shit sequel to a shit horror game (that's a walking/hiding simulator), then a shit game for poignant gayme reviewers (mostly soyjacks and pedos), then more shit no one has ever played or heard of, and finally - a sequel to one of the most beloved RPGs of all time that would need to feature a number of different and elaborate gameplay mechanics.

Please let this rape end. Can we leave just a few things unraped? Kill this atrocity before it sees the light of day.

As Roguey has pointed out several times - TCR is basically the Studio of Theseus. No-one from the walking simulator days is there anymore, Sumo rebuilt the studio from the ground up and just kept the name. It's all people from Rocksteady and Volition and shit.

 

[Skinwalker]

As Roguey has pointed out several times - TCR is basically the Studio of Theseus. No-one from the walking simulator days is there anymore, Sumo rebuilt the studio from the ground up and just kept the name. It's all people from Rocksteady and Volition and shit.

They why are they still developing a l'horreur walking simulator (Still Wakes The Derp) that they announced this year?

 

[Spacer's Nugget]

Hardsuit Labs wasn't ideal, but with MCA and Mitsoda they still had a fighting chance, but no, let's give this game to a bunch of nobodies, that never worked together before, that decided that the best way to present their vision is a montage of faceless goons being punched like Street Fighter or something, and showcase the many cool vampire powers you'll have, like, uh... *checks notes* shockwaving people into the air (and again, and again), and don't forget the instakill over-the-top "press the awesome button" takedowns.

 

[Zombra]

Hardsuit Labs wasn't ideal, but with MCA and Mitsoda they still had a fighting chance, but no, let's give this game to a bunch of nobodies

Remind me, why was Mitsoda fired?

 

[430am]

I'm not expecting anything good from a company that makes walking simulators for a living. I've "played" some of those for a bit and let me tell you, they're not a worthwhile experience. And if the people aren't there anymore, why? Were their games such shit that they went under? Or did the devs themselves not like what they were making and moved on? Okay, then why fill it with new unrelated people and use the brand, misleading the audience with false impressions instead of having a new company with a different name? Doesn't put this game under a positive light in any way that I can see.

 

[Spacer's Nugget]

Hardsuit Labs wasn't ideal, but with MCA and Mitsoda they still had a fighting chance, but no, let's give this game to a bunch of nobodies

Remind me, why was Mitsoda fired?

No official reason given, but the rumour is that Mitsoda's a primadonna to work with (and also that he might have fucked half the girls in the office).

 

[Ismaul]

Remind me, why was Mitsoda fired?

Because we can't have nice things.

Never forget.

 

[Roguey]

People seething about walking sims and yet Bloodlines has one of the first examples of a walking sim experience (The Ocean House Hotel).

There was a leaked video posted earlier of Hardsuit just outright ripping that quest off, but making it lamer. Ideally TCR won't do anything so crass.

As Roguey has pointed out several times - TCR is basically the Studio of Theseus. No-one from the walking simulator days is there anymore, Sumo rebuilt the studio from the ground up and just kept the name. It's all people from Rocksteady and Volition and shit.

They why are they still developing a l'horreur walking simulator (Still Wakes The Derp) that they announced this year?

That was Dan Pinchbeck's project, his last for the company.

 

[SpaceWizardz]

People are far too confident Mitsoda would've waved his magic wand and fixed the mess HSL's game was shaping up to be.
TCR so far has shown good judgement in getting rid of the cringe (Thinblood protag w/ clan disciplines, wacky stoner sidekick, shameless 'member berry antics with Damsel's return and Ocean House callbacks, etc.). I'm pretty confident we'll be getting the better game with them, whatever that may actually amount to.

 

[Ismaul]

People are far too confident Mitsoda would've waved his magic wand and fixed the mess HSL's game was shaping up to be.

Nah, Mitsoda couldn't fix HSL's mess, he's not a one-man studio.

But HSL was definitely making a mess of his design due to their incompetence. The rest is speculation. Yet, we could've done with another well-written and well-designed RPG with subpar gameplay; seems like HSL wasn't even at that level.

 

[Roguey]

Recent interview https://www.gamedeveloper.com/desig...e-on-i-vampire-the-masquerade-bloodlines-2-i-

"We obviously spoke to several different studios when looking for a new partner, we needed a studio that really got narrative and could understand emotion, and know the importance of great dialogue and communicating that on a high level—these are all areas that The Chinese Room has been awarded for," said Greaney.

"The Chinese Room came to us with very high ambition and a plan to get there while also understanding the scale and growth it took to get there. The Chinese Room is also a part of the Sumo Digital group, and they have many other resources to pull from."

Looks like Paradox very much liked that Sumo was going to co-fund it. Maybe it's not so lower-budget after all, they're just taking less of the risk.

More https://bloody-disgusting.com/video...2-heres-what-we-learned-at-penny-arcade-expo/

“We went out and we spoke to a lot of studios,” Grady said. “There were a few factors in there because of the franchise we’re in. One of those factors is obviously the ability to handle a narrative in a mature, adult way, and also an ability to handle narratives that are very grounded in what’s still very much our world with an angle on them. That’s very much the World of Darkness, but also the Chinese Room.”

I wonder who else they spoke to?

But HSL was definitely making a mess of his design due to their incompetence. The rest is speculation. Yet, we could've done with another well-written and well-designed RPG with subpar gameplay; seems like HSL wasn't even at that level.

The guy was lazily rehashing Bloodlines's Greatest Hits. He also fully endorsed Cara's Cringe. It wouldn't have been well-written.

 

[Serious_Business]

Back in the day Bloodlines got me into WoD, but I gotta say these days I find the setting a bit shit. My main gripe is that as alternative history, it doesn't make any fucking sense. If you're going to say that the world is an exact copy of ours, but with monsters, I understand the kind of immediate appeal, but it is lazy. If vampires were a thing no doubt civilisations would have grown very differently. When I cooked campaigns I was tempted to re-write the setting entirely : in my view the world would be stuck in antiquity in terms of technology, you'd get these great blood-worshipping states, vampires transforming into lovecraftian horrors, great swathes of mutated revenants, weird philosophy and art, futile attempts at resistance and so on. In typical WoD vampires are fragile and human, but this is boring. With 5e and the second inquisition, vampires' power is nothing. They don't even know how the stockmarket works - I don't know if anyone does, but hey ; they feel like they are kind of relegated to petty criminality, looking like Sopranos mafia, it's pretty pathetic. I an elder could even kill 16 czechoslovakians, they would just run around with their shitty 5e gimped celerity

 

[Ismaul]

The guy was lazily rehashing Bloodlines's Greatest Hits. He also fully endorsed Cara's Cringe. It wouldn't have been well-written.

What makes you think it was a rehash, rather than a continuation that takes in account what was done before?

I think you're just jumping to conclusions because you don't like Mitsoda for some reason. Personally, if it is to be a badly written mess, I'd rather Mitsoda fuck it up than anyone else. It was his vision in BL1 that made it good.

 

[Roguey]

What makes you think it was a rehash, rather than a continuation that takes in account what was done before?

I saw the "Heeeeeeeere's Damsel again" video and the leaked footage of Ocean House Hotel part 2: Ocean Harder.