World of Darkness Vampire: The Masquerade – Bloodlines 2 - VTMB sequel from The Chinese Room - coming early 2025

[Jacov]

Re-watched old trailers from 4 years ago. I didn't believe in the game even back then, but man... Hardsuit's pre-render and wonky gameplay trailer made an impression that people behind them were at least somewhat competent? I don't know, it looked like... Something? New stuff is just a total nothingburger.

 

[Non-Edgy Gamer]

It's amazing how much better that looks. I'd pay $70 for a game like that.

I wouldn't pay $20 for what I saw Chinese Room (who came up with that name?) put out.

 

[Roguey]

Hardsuit's pre-render and wonky gameplay trailer made an impression that people behind them were at least somewhat competent?

They weren't competent.

FIrst iteration was a crappy game trying very hard to be like a better one. Latest iteration is just a crappy game trying to be like other crappy games.

 

[ChildInTime]

It's amazing how much better that looks. I'd pay $70 for a game like that.

I wouldn't pay $20 for what I saw Chinese Room (who came up with that name?) put out.

Now search for the leaked gameplay of the old version, watch it, and then have a revelation that what TCR showed is still better (somehow) than whatever Hardsuit were trying to do.

 

[Roguey]

Also recall that Chris Avellone, who had an inside-look at what development was like, knew that this particular studio was incapable of delivering a Bloodlines clone, but he was really high on Hopium.

I went because I wanted to help Hardsuit with the pitch, I had been working with Hardsuit for some time prior on the title, and to encourage the Paradox folks the pitch was a good idea because I knew the Paradox folks from years before. This “encouragement” was very selfish of me and in retrospect of all that was going to happen, probably kind of shitty.

Yes, selfish. Yes, shitty. Still, it wasn’t hard to rationalize. It had been so many years since the original, I wanted someone to do it, and I thought Bloodlines fans (including me) had waited long enough. I was mostly thinking of myself, though, because (surprise) I wanted to work on it in any capacity.
...
The whole experience was like the last five minutes of Barton Fink (not the beach scene, the scene before it, know-it-all), but stretched out over 2 and a half years.
....
I have no insights on the project I can share. No one I worked with in the trenches still works at Hardsuit Labs. Even more interestingly, the Paradox producers I used to work with aren’t at Paradox anymore, either. I haven’t asked them what happened, but if they ever reach out, boy am I listening, but it’s probably telling people on both sides of the ocean quit or were let go or were “whatever”’d.

 

[La vie sexuelle]

You are making the case against your own joke though. Harebrained would make a terrible VTMB

I acknowledge that the Shadowrun guys (or what's left of them) wouldn't be my first choice, and that the timing didn't work out. But it still would've made way more sense for them to be handed the IP rather than...

-checks notes-

Working on some indiana jones tactical game that apparently bombed.

View attachment 42940

Edit: Also, come on, wtf.

View attachment 42944

When it was announced that Vampire was moving to a "studio well-known and liked by gamers" I was afraid it would be them. Truly, even the RPG drought of 2013-2018 cannot explain the fondness for this studio's games. Their productions were clunky, overly simplified, boring and woke before woke.

From a financial point of view, Harebrined functioned thanks to a combination of the small scale of their production, Kickstarter and the fanatical devotion of RPG fans. But when they sailed into wider waters in much less favorable times, the ship had to sink. I hope this will happen to the remaining hacks that appeared around 2013-2016.


Side note: I hope that the new game will be moddable enough that I can replace the female models with having big boobs and model faces.

 

[Tyranicon]

You are making the case against your own joke though. Harebrained would make a terrible VTMB

I acknowledge that the Shadowrun guys (or what's left of them) wouldn't be my first choice, and that the timing didn't work out. But it still would've made way more sense for them to be handed the IP rather than...

-checks notes-

Working on some indiana jones tactical game that apparently bombed.

View attachment 42940

Edit: Also, come on, wtf.

View attachment 42944

When it was announced that Vampire was moving to a "studio well-known and liked by gamers" I was afraid it would be them. Truly, even the RPG drought of 2013-2018 cannot explain the fondness for this studio's games. Their productions were clunky, overly simplified, boring and woke before woke.

From a financial point of view, Harebrined functioned thanks to a combination of the small scale of their production, Kickstarter and the fanatical devotion of RPG fans. But when they sailed into wider waters in much less favorable times, the ship had to sink. I hope this will happen to the remaining hacks that appeared around 2013-2016.


Side note: I hope that the new game will be moddable enough that I can replace the female models with having big boobs and model faces.

Something I noticed with Harebrained is that even the most friendly and tolerant of online denizens seem to have a massive hateboner for them.

I don't really know the lore behind this. Was Battletech that bad?

But for the haters, it seems like you got your wish. 80% of the staff was laid off a few months ago and they're projecting a loss of around 30 million (they spent that much on it?!?) from Lamplighters League, so the studio seems dead.

 

[Moink]

I'm going to be honest here I've spent the last 6ish years thinking Hardsuit and Harebrained were the same company.

 

[The President]

They’ll be broke and independent and Paradox will write off the losses.

 

[sosmoflux]

So at this point it's all but confirmed that this game is going to be yet another case of soyboys and women taking something that used to be cool and deforming it into a grotesque effigy they'll burn to own straight white gamers

 

[S.H.O.D.A.N.]

I hope that the new game will be moddable enough that I can replace the female models with having big boobs and model faces.

I think it's Unreal 5, and if it is, you can likely kiss modding anything relevant goodbye.

 

[La vie sexuelle]

You are making the case against your own joke though. Harebrained would make a terrible VTMB

I acknowledge that the Shadowrun guys (or what's left of them) wouldn't be my first choice, and that the timing didn't work out. But it still would've made way more sense for them to be handed the IP rather than...

-checks notes-

Working on some indiana jones tactical game that apparently bombed.

View attachment 42940

Edit: Also, come on, wtf.

View attachment 42944

When it was announced that Vampire was moving to a "studio well-known and liked by gamers" I was afraid it would be them. Truly, even the RPG drought of 2013-2018 cannot explain the fondness for this studio's games. Their productions were clunky, overly simplified, boring and woke before woke.

From a financial point of view, Harebrined functioned thanks to a combination of the small scale of their production, Kickstarter and the fanatical devotion of RPG fans. But when they sailed into wider waters in much less favorable times, the ship had to sink. I hope this will happen to the remaining hacks that appeared around 2013-2016.


Side note: I hope that the new game will be moddable enough that I can replace the female models with having big boobs and model faces.

Something I noticed with Harebrained is that even the most friendly and tolerant of online denizens seem to have a massive hateboner for them.

I don't really know the lore behind this. Was Battletech that bad?

But for the haters, it seems like you got your wish. 80% of the staff was laid off a few months ago and they're projecting a loss of around 30 million (they spent that much on it?!?) from Lamplighters League, so the studio seems dead.

Interesting, my experience was quite the opposite.

Personally, I didn't like their games for being copycats, but also for pretending to be something they are not. For example: Shadowruns, especially the first one, pretends to be a classic RPG. But it's just a tactical game, and it's full of mechanics that pretend to be something deeper. Not to mention the plots, for some reason considered good. I guess it's a matter of setting.

The same applies to Battletech. The plot is simply boring, as is the design, but my biggest pain is the very clumsily implemented mechanics and interface. Not bad at the concept level, no one is inventing the wheel here, just general clunkiness.

I hope that the new game will be moddable enough that I can replace the female models with having big boobs and model faces.

I think it's Unreal 5, and if it is, you can likely kiss modding anything relevant goodbye.

Probably so. These models looked so untouchable even in gameplays. Pity. Mods kept the original V:tB alive for decades.

 

[Roguey]

You are making the case against your own joke though. Harebrained would make a terrible VTMB

Blast from your past:

By a large margin. These games have thouroughly mediocre-to-bad gameplay, what carries them is atmosphere, charm, mystery and poignancy. Kind of like an isometric Bloodlines.

The first game loses all four halfway through, while the third game buries you in text, Pillars 1-style. So the second game is easily the best.

Sure, they had no Unreal experience, but when Troika made Bloodlines they had no Source experience, and up until that point had only made pseudo-iso turn-based/real-time games. They had RPG experience which was key. I imagine at this point at least some of the people at Paradox and HBS wish Paradox had just written off Lamplighters League as a loss alongside Hardsuit's Bloodlines 2 and made them do it instead. Not that it would necessarily look better than what we have now. A Jill Scharr/Shobo Corker/Anthea Carns-written Bloodlines 2 doesn't exactly strike up much enthusiasm.

 

[duskvile]

I think we have to break our personal vision and conception what Bloodlines 2 should be as much Baldur's gate 3 did break most of legacy formats.
Bloodlines 2 should be interesting game with great success if we want this franchise to continue. I do.

 

[Grunker]

You are making the case against your own joke though. Harebrained would make a terrible VTMB

Blast from your past:

By a large margin. These games have thouroughly mediocre-to-bad gameplay, what carries them is atmosphere, charm, mystery and poignancy. Kind of like an isometric Bloodlines.

The first game loses all four halfway through, while the third game buries you in text, Pillars 1-style. So the second game is easily the best.

Not sure what your point is - I seem to be one of the Codexers most critical of the Shadowrun games. I view them as entirely narrative and atmosphere driven, and even then, only the second game is worthy of anyone's times IMHO.

The 'kind of like' is meant to be just that; it's "kind of like" Bloodlines in that it is great because of its atmosphere, but unlike Bloodlines, atmosphere is basically all it has.

You are making the case against your own joke though. Harebrained would make a terrible VTMB

I acknowledge that the Shadowrun guys (or what's left of them) wouldn't be my first choice, and that the timing didn't work out. But it still would've made way more sense for them to be handed the IP rather than...

-checks notes-

Working on some indiana jones tactical game that apparently bombed.

Exactly. You're arguing that the guys who made 1 kind of cool atmospheric game with no worthwhile gameplay and a full-priced tactical game that plays like a superficial indie title would be a good fit for a Bloodlines sequel.

 

[Latelistener]

Bloodlines 2 should be interesting game with great success if we want this franchise to continue. I do.

What franchise? Just let it die already. Play games that matter and Bloodlines doesn't matter anymore.

It's a game that came when it was suppose to and was only held together by writing and we will have none of that with this new game. Some dangerhair or whoever they have as a lead writer will make sure of that.

Their only goal is to make money, but Paradox must be insane if they think they will make any. Especially considering their failures with Hardsuit.

They should've just asked Harebrained to make a new isometric game in the world of Masquerade instead of what they made. Gameplay-wise it couldn't be worse than a game from a studio that only made Little Orpheus.

 

[Jacov]

Hardsuit's pre-render and wonky gameplay trailer made an impression that people behind them were at least somewhat competent?

They weren't competent.

FIrst iteration was a crappy game trying very hard to be like a better one. Latest iteration is just a crappy game trying to be like other crappy games.

HS at least had decency to show dialogue checks.

 

[Harthwain]

Bloodlines 2 should be interesting game with great success if we want this franchise to continue. I do.

Do you want Bloodlines or just a vampire RPG?

 

[Child of Malkav]

Codex when HSL: lol retards only make shooters, game has consumable guns, you play as thinblood etc.
Codex after HSL: we didn't know how good we had it bros...

Me:

This thread is so much more fun than that whatever the game can be at this point it's not even close.

 

[Storyfag]

HS at least had decency to show dialogue checks.

And how do you know TCR doesn't?

 

[Roguey]

HS at least had decency to show dialogue checks.

And how do you know TCR doesn't?

Yeah, we saw a grand total of two dialogue menus and Bloodlines certainly didn't have a check in every or even most conversations.

Of course it's still possible they did away with them. If they know they can't do them well, does one think they should do them at all?

 

[La vie sexuelle]

Codex when HSL: lol retards only make shooters, game has consumable guns, you play as thinblood etc.
Codex after HSL: we didn't know how good we had it bros...

Me:

This thread is so much more fun than that whatever the game can be at this point it's not even close.

Agree.

Do you want Bloodlines or just a vampire RPG?

You pose an interesting problem - what exactly are we waiting for?

Personally, I long ago lost faith in the continuation of Bloodlines as Bloodlines. The only thing I'm counting on is an average, but still playable, vampire simulator with the occasional pretty female vampire.

 

[Storyfag]

If they know they can't do them well, does one think they should do them at all?

Now now, let us not scale to their level. IF they know they can't do dialogue checks well, they shouldn't be making any RPG, much less VTMB2. But that stil remains to be determined.

 

[Roguey]

Now now, let us not scale to their level. IF they know they can't do dialogue checks well, they shouldn't be making any RPG, much less VTMB2. But that stil remains to be determined.

I wouldn't hold that against them. Most* RPGs don't have super-compelling dialogue checks and this includes Bloodlines itself. A lot of people (me included) still like having them though. As long as they're not "You're a computer" stupid.


Also, for fun, here's a bunch of screenshots I had already taken of Bloodlines dialogue with checkless or limited dialogue options to remember it as it was and not the game in one's head.

Spoiler

 

[Jacov]

HS at least had decency to show dialogue checks.

And how do you know TCR doesn't?

Why didn't TCR show them in their video then? Such important part of RPG writing and they don't highlight it in their PR talk about «Narrative & RPG Stream»?

When the dev in the video is asked about how players will be able to customize their narrative experience, he doesn't outright answer that «you will have dialogue choices based on your clan and stats», instead giving some evasive non-answer. The only thing even related to character development mentioned is clans, with no additional info.

I of course, hope I'm wrong, but this is just another red flag.