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World of Darkness Vampire: The Masquerade – Bloodlines 2 - VTMB sequel from The Chinese Room - coming early 2025

Tyranicon

A Memory of Eternity
Developer
Joined
Oct 7, 2019
Messages
7,244
In Parliament of Knives I...

Backstabbed my sire with a new ally.
Got backstabbed by my sire.
Agreed to help assassinate my sire.
Backstabbed the assassin in the middle of their assassination.
Allied back up with my sire.
Got backstabbed by my ally.
Sire backstabs me again.
Ally backstabs my sire, reverting their backstab of me.
I backstab my sire to her temporary ally, who is in the process of backstabbing her.
I backstab my ally in her moment of triumph.
Backstab the Prince, too, when they're staked and helpless.
My sire backstabs her conspiracy ally, triggering a city vs city domain war.

And then I turn up to my sire and we both pretend like we've always been the bestest chums, having discovered no secrets about eachother and having comitted no unknowable crimes or treasons, it was all simply a misunderstanding.
You already had me at backstab. Downloading the demo now.

Spectral Pontifex New siggy unlocked I see. I couldn't have chosen better words to live on in posterity.

Well, besides "years later, Tyranicon did in fact, manage to buttfuck the industry."
 
Joined
Jul 15, 2022
Messages
360
You already had me at backstab. Downloading the demo now.
Yeah, you can backstab just about any "ally" in this game. Throwback to when my character suddenly abandoned his girlfriend and the entire plot to fight in a holy war.

Spectral Pontifex New siggy unlocked I see. I couldn't have chosen better words to live on in posterity.

Well, besides "years later, Tyranicon did in fact, manage to buttfuck the industry."
It's a spell and a prophecy. Game devs beware.
 

Fedora Master

STOP POSTING
Patron
Edgy
Joined
Jun 28, 2017
Messages
30,331
In Parliament of Knives I...

Backstabbed my sire with a new ally.
Got backstabbed by my sire.
Agreed to help assassinate my sire.
Backstabbed the assassin in the middle of their assassination.
Allied back up with my sire.
Got backstabbed by my ally.
Sire backstabs me again.
Ally backstabs my sire, reverting their backstab of me.
I backstab my sire to her temporary ally, who is in the process of backstabbing her.
I backstab my ally in her moment of triumph.
Backstab the Prince, too, when they're staked and helpless.
My sire backstabs her conspiracy ally, triggering a city vs city domain war.

And then I turn up to my sire and we both pretend like we've always been the bestest chums, having discovered no secrets about eachother and having comitted no unknowable crimes or treasons, it was all simply a misunderstanding.
Yea but how many people were diverse BIPOCs?
 

Roguey

Codex Staff
Staff Member
Sawyerite
Joined
May 29, 2010
Messages
36,441
In Parliament of Knives I...

Backstabbed my sire with a new ally.
Got backstabbed by my sire.
Agreed to help assassinate my sire.
Backstabbed the assassin in the middle of their assassination.
Allied back up with my sire.
Got backstabbed by my ally.
Sire backstabs me again.
Ally backstabs my sire, reverting their backstab of me.
I backstab my sire to her temporary ally, who is in the process of backstabbing her.
I backstab my ally in her moment of triumph.
Backstab the Prince, too, when they're staked and helpless.
My sire backstabs her conspiracy ally, triggering a city vs city domain war.

And then I turn up to my sire and we both pretend like we've always been the bestest chums, having discovered no secrets about eachother and having comitted no unknowable crimes or treasons, it was all simply a misunderstanding.
Unfortunately this has little appeal to the kind of person who doesn't like lying or duplicity and only wants to fulfill tasks with honesty and integrity (me and other spergs).
 

normie

️‍
Patron
Zionist Agent
Joined
Mar 9, 2019
Messages
4,039
Insert Title Here
Yea but how many people were diverse BIPOCs?
if it's a "choice of" joint, it's faggotry
all choice of games mandate faggotry and inclusion, it's non-negotiable to be platformed
you can't even hold it against the authors wholly, they might've had an original vision that included none and then had to do swaps to be greenlit
 
Joined
Jul 15, 2022
Messages
360
Yea but how many people were diverse BIPOCs?
if it's a "choice of" joint, it's faggotry
all choice of games mandate faggotry and inclusion, it's non-negotiable to be platformed
you can't even hold it against the authors wholly, they might've had an original vision that included none and then had to do swaps to be greenlit
Well, there might be a few niggers, but it's a text game so you don't have to stare at them unlike in modern RPGs. Besides, you can kill off most of the non-white characters. Romance is also very unobtrusive. So much so that I barely knew of its existence until I decided to seek it out after several playthroughs.

It's a good game and thoughts about modern politics never entered my mind while playing.
 

ColaWerewolf

Educated
Joined
Feb 6, 2021
Messages
149
Is Swansong worth it?
Not unless you're really obsessed with the IP. It doesn't do anything remarkable, large sections of it are forgettable, and the game feels sluggish. The main villain is the best part of the game, but he doesn't have enough screen time and the consequences to his actions aren't felt.
 

Storyfag

Perfidious Pole
Patron
Joined
Feb 17, 2011
Messages
17,036
Location
Stealth Orbital Nuke Control Centre
In Parliament of Knives I...

Backstabbed my sire with a new ally.
Got backstabbed by my sire.
Agreed to help assassinate my sire.
Backstabbed the assassin in the middle of their assassination.
Allied back up with my sire.
Got backstabbed by my ally.
Sire backstabs me again.
Ally backstabs my sire, reverting their backstab of me.
I backstab my sire to her temporary ally, who is in the process of backstabbing her.
I backstab my ally in her moment of triumph.
Backstab the Prince, too, when they're staked and helpless.
My sire backstabs her conspiracy ally, triggering a city vs city domain war.

And then I turn up to my sire and we both pretend like we've always been the bestest chums, having discovered no secrets about eachother and having comitted no unknowable crimes or treasons, it was all simply a misunderstanding.
That is the best sales pitch ever.
 

ColaWerewolf

Educated
Joined
Feb 6, 2021
Messages
149
I played Bloodlines, a game made by role playing gamers who didn't really care all that much about Vampire the Masquerade and just made a regular RPG in the setting.
To be fair, Bloodlines also features a lot of vtm subterfuge and manipulation. It's just that, since you play a fledgling, they're ok with just commanding you to do something directly without the smoke and mirrors. But even then,

Knox tries to manipulate you into dealing with the asian vampire.
Jeanette tries to manipulate you into failing Therese's quest, and pissing Therese off in general.
VV tries to use you to solve her shit, constantly.
You can ally with Strauss for the gargoyle amulet and then betray his secret to Isaac.
LaCroix and Ming Xiao have a secret conspiracy and they both end up backstabbing eachother.
Ming Xiao/LaCroix try to set up Nines.
Jack sets up the whole sarcophagus event in motion and blatantly lies to you when you ask questions about the sarcophagus.

Edit: In fact, if you side with the anarchs from the start, they straight up force you to be a double-agent and feed them intel from the inside.
 

ChildInTime

Savant
Joined
Jun 13, 2019
Messages
642
I would still say that Night Road is better overall in the 'game' department - your stats actually matter and all that, but Parliament is more in line with what people want from VtM - somewhat linear intrigue and backstabbing among dickheaded and immature immortals in a big city, also there is no Julian-type character.
Try Out for Blood as well, if you want to play Buffy, avoid Sins of the Sires.
 
Joined
Jul 15, 2022
Messages
360
I would still say that Night Road is better overall in the 'game' department - your stats actually matter and all that, but Parliament is more in line with what people want from VtM - somewhat linear intrigue and backstabbing among dickheaded and immature immortals in a big city, also there is no Julian-type character.
If you liked Night Road, you may be happy to know that the author is working on another WoD IF novel: Werewolf: The Apocalypse — The Book of Hungry Names.

On that note, ten new IF titles from the WoD universe are scheduled to be released by the year 2027.

web408-2.png
 
Vatnik Wumao
Joined
Jan 29, 2019
Messages
14,816
Location
Niggeria
In Parliament of Knives I...

Backstabbed my sire with a new ally.
Got backstabbed by my sire.
Agreed to help assassinate my sire.
Backstabbed the assassin in the middle of their assassination.
Allied back up with my sire.
Got backstabbed by my ally.
Sire backstabs me again.
Ally backstabs my sire, reverting their backstab of me.
I backstab my sire to her temporary ally, who is in the process of backstabbing her.
I backstab my ally in her moment of triumph.
Backstab the Prince, too, when they're staked and helpless.
My sire backstabs her conspiracy ally, triggering a city vs city domain war.

And then I turn up to my sire and we both pretend like we've always been the bestest chums, having discovered no secrets about eachother and having comitted no unknowable crimes or treasons, it was all simply a misunderstanding.
If you play as malkavian you can also backstab your imaginary friend.
 

Roguey

Codex Staff
Staff Member
Sawyerite
Joined
May 29, 2010
Messages
36,441
Isn’t V5 the shittiest version of the setting? Why be so adamant to faithfully represent it is my question.

V5 is Paradox's. They were the ones who approved of every decision. That's their vision.

To be fair, Bloodlines also features a lot of vtm subterfuge and manipulation. It's just that, since you play a fledgling, they're ok with just commanding you to do something directly without the smoke and mirrors. But even then,
The difference is that it's other people doing those things to you. You're a gofer, not a player.

In fact, if you side with the anarchs from the start, they straight up force you to be a double-agent and feed them intel from the inside.

It's not like you have any truly confidential information of value.
 

RagingNomad

Educated
Joined
Dec 13, 2022
Messages
124
Is Swansong worth it?
I think it's worth a playthrough. It has interesting main characters that are well written. There are choices that affect what happens. Characters can die. The plot is more classic to the Vampire setting unlike Bloodlines. There are mysteries. There is an interesting system of resources and upgrades that also affect gameplay. Only you have to realize that this is not an action game. It is a quest designed for pixel-hunting.
 

RagingNomad

Educated
Joined
Dec 13, 2022
Messages
124
Isn’t V5 the shittiest version of the setting? Why be so adamant to faithfully represent it is my question.
V5 is a great system. It has a lot of interesting narrative elements that are incorporated directly into the gameplay. You may not like the modern setting or story events, but otherwise the game is interesting and not inferior to the classics. The disciplines have been sorted and cleaned up. Added a little more balance to abilities. Added resonance as well as types of hunting, making the game more vampiric. Dice throws have been made easier. Battles are more dynamic. Players need to spend less time counting. A lot of things are made more intuitive.
 

Grunker

RPG Codex Ghost
Patron
Joined
Oct 19, 2009
Messages
27,644
Location
Copenhagen
the kind of person who doesn't like lying or duplicity
Bro, do you even VtM?
I played Bloodlines, a game made by role playing gamers who didn't really care all that much about Vampire the Masquerade and just made a regular RPG in the setting.

One of the only reasons the game is worth playing despite its many mechanical failures is its impeccable grasp of atmosphere. The fact that they didn’t give a shit about the trash deep lore of VtM =/= not giving a shit about the setting.

In fact, I’d argue the opposite: what makes VtM work is exactly the fact that Troika captured the essence of VtM without getting bogged down in superfluous details.
 

ColaWerewolf

Educated
Joined
Feb 6, 2021
Messages
149
The difference is that it's other people doing those things to you. You're a gofer, not a player.
You can play a straight-shooter in Parliament and never lie or betray anyone (until after they've betrayed you and you're reasonably justified to cut ties with them). Or even just accept that they're using you and come to terms with it anyway. Almost everyone around you is an asshole, but you can point that out to them.

Grunker said:
One of the only reasons the game is worth playing despite its many mechanical failures is its impeccable grasp of atmosphere. The fact that they didn’t give a shit about the trash deep lore of VtM =/= not giving a shit about the setting.

In fact, I’d argue the opposite: what makes VtM work is exactly the fact that Troika captured the essence of VtM without getting bogged down in superfluous details.
Bloodlines has more of the "trash deep lore of VtM" than every single other VtM game out right now (who usually just focus on their compartmentalized local issues).
Swansong has nothing about the lore besides SI wanting to kill all vampires, and that's bad if you're a vampire.
Redemption is just about saving Anezka from a big bad Tzimisce, and some Carthage cope.
Very similar story with the IFs and VNs: they're focused on their localized drama.

Meanwhile, Bloodlines mentions and focuses on Gehenna, Jyhad, Caine, Lilith, Antediluvians, all three sects, Society of Leopold, even Kuei Jin. You have Caine in the game for fuck's sake, you can't get more dank with the lore than this.
 

Grunker

RPG Codex Ghost
Patron
Joined
Oct 19, 2009
Messages
27,644
Location
Copenhagen
Meanwhile, Bloodlines mentions and focuses on Gehenna, Jyhad, Caine, Lilith, Antediluvians, all three sects, Society of Leopold, even Kuei Jin. You have Caine in the game for fuck's sake, you can't get more dank with the lore than this.

They don't do any deep diving, Pillars of Eternity-style, into any of these elements. I read the Kuei-Jin books after playing Bloodlines, and it says everything about how succinct Bloodlines is that I realized upon reading them that Bloodlines uses almost nothing about their lore in the game. Bloodlines uses all these cool elements in only the scarcest way necessary for its intruiging mysteries and story beats - it never gets bogged down in unneccesary detail.

So yes, you can get way, waaaaaay more dank with all those elements, and it's to Bloodlines' credit that it never does. It picks and chooses cool elements from the lore without ever making its story beats about that lore itself.
 
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ColaWerewolf

Educated
Joined
Feb 6, 2021
Messages
149
Meanwhile, Bloodlines mentions and focuses on Gehenna, Jyhad, Caine, Lilith, Antediluvians, all three sects, Society of Leopold, even Kuei Jin. You have Caine in the game for fuck's sake, you can't get more dank with the lore than this.

They don't do any deep diving, Pillars of Eternity-style, into any of these elements. I read the Kuei-Jin books after playing Bloodlines, and it says everything about how succinct Bloodlines is that I realized upon reading them that Bloodlines uses almost nothing about their lore in the game. Bloodlines uses all these cool elements in only the scarcest way necessary for its intruiging mysteries and story beats - it never gets bogged down in unneccesary detail.

So yes, you can get way, waaaaaay more dank with all those elements, and its to Bloodlines' credit that it never does. It picks and chooses cool elements from the lore without ever making its story beats about that lore itself.
None of the other VtM games get more dank with it than Bloodlines does.

Edit: I suppose the point I'm trying to make is that Bloodlines is pretty entrenched in the VtM setting, moreso than other VtM games. It's not VtM purism that made Bloodlines good, but it's not VtM purism that made other VtM games bad. Because they have even less VtM stuff than Bloodlines does.
 
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