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World of Darkness Vampire: The Masquerade – Swansong - narrative RPG from The Council devs - now on Steam

Gradenmayer

Learned
Joined
Jul 21, 2019
Messages
612
none of the non-player kindred give a fuck about anyone outside of their own self-gain.

Well, that's kind of how the setting is supposed to work. Perhaps the devs failed to properly implement the above premise?
It works when it's about a scuffle between equally asshole-ish clans or othe supernatural creatures (like it did in the old RPG).

Issue is- main antagonists are humans who want to wipe vamps out
lead by an old psychotic inquisitior that has more charisma than all 3 main characters combined.
They are dirtbags too, yeah. But what they do is way less evil than what local kindred researches do to humans (and to their own kin).
Opposition is way more likable than your own team. Which is a no go for a story where you are supposed to somewhat care about the local Camarilla domain and issues of it's members.
 

V_K

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at a Nowhere near you
Codex: whines for ages about the lack of evil playthroughs.
Also Codex:
They are dirtbags too, yeah. But what they do is way less evil than what local kindred researches do to humans (and to their own kin).
Opposition is way more likable than your own team. Which is a no go for a story where you are supposed to somewhat care about the local Camarilla domain and issues of it's members.
 

jackofshadows

Arcane
Joined
Oct 21, 2019
Messages
5,096
Compare any of that to Smiling Jack. Is he an asshole? Absolutely. But what a magnificient asshole!
I feel like you're confusing "vulgar" with "jerkass." Jack is friendly with the PC and doesn't lie to or manipulate the PC... not specifically.
That's one thing but he's still a monster who treats humans as cattle, right? And for sure not the nicest vampire around. But fine, you can replace him with Ming Xiao to get the comparison. I leaned more towards character's actions rather than language anyway.
 
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Gradenmayer

Learned
Joined
Jul 21, 2019
Messages
612
Codex: whines for ages about the lack of evil playthroughs.
Also Codex:
They are dirtbags too, yeah. But what they do is way less evil than what local kindred researches do to humans (and to their own kin).
Opposition is way more likable than your own team. Which is a no go for a story where you are supposed to somewhat care about the local Camarilla domain and issues of it's members.
Not sure which ass you pulled that from, but the ability to be evil doesn't excuse boring, one-note characters.
 

Gradenmayer

Learned
Joined
Jul 21, 2019
Messages
612
Finished the game.

Only thing I have to say- Vampyr felt like a better story by the end of it. And I really dislike Vampyr's story.

Good news- you can fail-kill all the main characters and most Camarilla NPCs. Which I consider to be the best set of endings.

Don't think there was a single endearing or likable trait to any of the vampire characters outside of Lahsey. They are all really one-note and static.

This is a downgrade from the Council In all areas: dialogues, characters, puzzles, mystery, humor (especially puzzles).

Some choices don't make any fucking sense.
Like an option to kill the Asian girl at the end? Why in the hell would I do that, if most of the Galeb's character was simping for her the entire game

Last confrontation
With the Stanford was an absolute joke. Man of god, whose faith is so strong- he can hold 300 year old vampire of royal clan back- just with his presence. Guess how his will gets broken? By the phrase 'i am a predator and you are prey'. An option so retarded I selected it last from the 6 presented options! Why would a man who wants to kill them for being predatory parasites in the first place get shaken up by that? It's so fucking dumb

Game was disappointing overall. Had hopes it would be an improvement over their previous game, but it was not.
 

ColaWerewolf

Educated
Joined
Feb 6, 2021
Messages
152
Is profanity a thing in Swansong?
Yes, where appropriate. Outside of token "shits" and "fucks", the Toreador calls both Journey and Hilda bitches, and she herself gets called a whore by Quentin's knights.

Well, that's kind of how the setting is supposed to work. Perhaps the devs failed to properly implement the above premise?
They didn't. Swansong is the most faithful-to-the-IP game we've had to date. But it's not Bloodlines. It doesn't have the quirky Malk schoolgirl, the slutty Toreador whore in lingerie, the rambunctious Brujah pirate dad. So it will be shitted on because it's closer to the VtM setting than it is to Bloodlines, and that's unforgivable.
 

Infinitron

I post news
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Staff Member
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Jan 28, 2011
Messages
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Codex Year of the Donut Serpent in the Staglands Dead State Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2 Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 A Beautifully Desolate Campaign Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pathfinder: Kingmaker Pathfinder: Wrath I'm very into cock and ball torture I helped put crap in Monomyth
They didn't. Swansong is the most faithful-to-the-IP game we've had to date. But it's not Bloodlines. It doesn't have the quirky Malk schoolgirl, the slutty Toreador whore in lingerie, the rambunctious Brujah pirate dad. So it will be shitted on because it's closer to the VtM setting than it is to Bloodlines, and that's unforgivable.

RaggleFraggle, meet your Codex arch-enemy.
 

RaggleFraggle

Ask me about VTM
Joined
Mar 23, 2022
Messages
1,443
They didn't. Swansong is the most faithful-to-the-IP game we've had to date. But it's not Bloodlines. It doesn't have the quirky Malk schoolgirl, the slutty Toreador whore in lingerie, the rambunctious Brujah pirate dad. So it will be shitted on because it's closer to the VtM setting than it is to Bloodlines, and that's unforgivable.

RaggleFraggle, meet your Codex arch-enemy.
Hello! Nice to meet you. I hope we can have nice fun civil conversations in the future.
 

ColaWerewolf

Educated
Joined
Feb 6, 2021
Messages
152
As Zombra mentioned earlier, there's a scarcity of experience relative to all the things you can invest experience in, so for those who have yet to jump in, here are some beginner tips on how to get the most out of the early-to-mid game content.

Hierarchy of what to spend experience on in the early game, going from most important to least:
1. Dialogue Skills (Rhetoric, Intimidation, Persuasion, Psychology)
2. Knowledge Skills (Deduction, Education)
3. Attributes (Physical, Social, Mental)
4. Exploration Skills (Security, Technology)
5. Disciplines

1. Dialogue skills are the bread and butter of this game. The more points you have invested in these the more confrontations you can win and the more information you can glean. Psychology in particular gets used quite often by Galeb and Leysha, but all four skills are used by all the playable characters.
2. Knowledge skills aren't necessary to win confrontations, but they're satisfying to have and provide you with additional experience at the end of the scene for successfully triggering them.
3. Attributes help boost your chance of success during a skill tie. It's useful, but if you fail the roll, you can quit to main menu before finishing the dialogue and jump right back in. This will reset you to the beginning of the conversation and you can roll for success again. If you don't plan on 'cheating' the rolls, then rank Attributes over Knowledge skills.
4. Exploration skills are not very useful in the early game because there are alternative ways of unlocking locked objects or accessing password protected computers. Usually by finding the key/passcode through exploration. Later on there are several consumables that boost these skills as well.
5. Don't invest in Disciplines. At least not in the prologue. After the prologue, having Auspex 2 and Celerity 2 is recommended for additional content. I wouldn't bother with anything else. There are some scenes where the game gives you additional content for having certain Discipline powers, but in those same scenes you get Tremere concoction macguffins that allow you to temporarily get the required discipline power if you explore the level thoroughly or successfully complete confrontations. Last but not least, the experience cost reductions that you get from feeding on humans stacks. This means that the Discipline that costs 45xp to upgrade in the early game will cost a measly 5xp or even 0xp to upgrade later down the line.

The more content you access the more experience you get. The more dialogue skills you use successfully the stronger those dialogue skills become through the Talent system. It's encouraged to win as many Rhetoric, Intimidation, Persuasion, and Psychology checks as you can.
 
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Zombra

An iron rock in the river of blood and evil
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ColaWerewolf's facts are on point. However I will reiterate that missing things or failing at them isn't catastrophic in this game. I'm building my characters whimsically based on what I'd like to see them be good and bad at. The story rolls forward either way and the attitude of "I must optimize in order to 'beat' the game" is simply not required unless you want to for its own sake. I'm failing a lot of things and succeeding at a lot of things and to me it makes it more interesting to see how the consequences will play out.
 

Wesp5

Arcane
Joined
Apr 18, 2007
Messages
1,951
They just picked the right reviews for the trailer. On Metacritic the critics have the game at 6.7 which is mediocre at best, and players seem to rather hate it with a score of 2.7. Even the broken mess that was Bloodlines on release had a critic score of 80 and it has a players score of 8.9 nowadays! What I have seen for now implies that they tried to make a short game (about 10 maps judging from walkthroughs) longer using a broken save system and unskippable cutscenes which annoys many people. And don't get me started on facial expressions and model animations worse than an almost 20 years older game in one were dialogue confrontations are even more important...
 
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jackofshadows

Arcane
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Oct 21, 2019
Messages
5,096
Yes. Moreover, the design clearly implies multiple playthroughs of this abomination. What a joke.
 

Zombra

An iron rock in the river of blood and evil
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I enjoyed this a lot until I got stuck in a room there seems to be no way out of since I didn't take the Lockpicking skill. Soooooo kinda stopped playing it.
 

ColaWerewolf

Educated
Joined
Feb 6, 2021
Messages
152
I enjoyed this a lot until I got stuck in a room there seems to be no way out of since I didn't take the Lockpicking skill. Soooooo kinda stopped playing it.
Which room, you can detail it in spoilers. I've broken this game in all ways to tomorrow and must have gotten most content mapped out, but your specific bug never occurred to me.
 

Zombra

An iron rock in the river of blood and evil
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I enjoyed this a lot until I got stuck in a room there seems to be no way out of since I didn't take the Lockpicking skill. Soooooo kinda stopped playing it.
Which room, you can detail it in spoilers. I've broken this game in all ways to tomorrow and must have gotten most content mapped out, but your specific bug never occurred to me.
Thanks, I'm sure I must have just missed something. I'll go back and look again if I get around to it.
 

lycanwarrior

Scholar
Joined
Jan 1, 2021
Messages
1,490
Completed the game last month, I enjoyed the game FWIW.

Although it is definitely more of game for those who enjoy Telltale adventure games or Disco Elysium.
 

J1M

Arcane
Joined
May 14, 2008
Messages
14,745
I enjoyed this a lot until I got stuck in a room there seems to be no way out of since I didn't take the Lockpicking skill. Soooooo kinda stopped playing it.
Which room, you can detail it in spoilers. I've broken this game in all ways to tomorrow and must have gotten most content mapped out, but your specific bug never occurred to me.
Thanks, I'm sure I must have just missed something. I'll go back and look again if I get around to it.
I am guessing that you don't realize that vampire teleport is free once you've used it across a span once.
 

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