Grand Strategy Victoria 3

[XenomorphII]

-24: because fuck you that's why

 

[Average Manatee]

Why would you even want to be involved in diplomacy in this game. If you're a great power then allying with minors is just asking for them to draw you into stupid shit. You don't get anything out of it.

 

[Trithne]

Yeah. Diplomacy is useless.

And also paradox cannot into math.
50+10+10+10+17+6 = 103
103-100 = 3

So where's the extra -24 coming from?

I know that paramath is weird because they actually do it all with much larger values then round it off for display, so that initial -100 is actually-10,000 for instance, but I can't work out a -24 even with rounding errors.

 

[Axioms]

Yeah. Diplomacy is useless.

And also paradox cannot into math.
50+10+10+10+17+6 = 103
103-100 = 3

So where's the extra -24 coming from?

I know that paramath is weird because they actually do it all with much larger values then round it off for display, so that initial -100 is actually-10,000 for instance, but I can't work out a -24 even with rounding errors.

Oh this is an effort to avoid floats/fixed point numbers or something? Interesting.

 

[Space Satan]

They always use rounding because on release Vicotria 3 had digits which resulted in thousands of 0.24% of polynesians, 0.01% of poles 0.17% of germans with migration which resulted in astronomical resource hog because game calculated pop demands and jobs for each and every 0.01 minority for every province.

 

[IDtenT]

They need to fix centralization (of industry) in this game, and I'm not sure how they'd go about that given the current cookie clicker model. Will be interesting to see if they can fix it or not.

 

[Average Manatee]

They need to fix centralization (of industry) in this game, and I'm not sure how they'd go about that given the current cookie clicker model. Will be interesting to see if they can fix it or not.

If they do fix it the game will basically become unplayable as a large nation because no one wants to manage all their factories across hundreds of provinces rather than a handful of them. They'd need to massively improve their UI to compensate, and this being a Paradox game that's the last thing that can ever happen.

Also having separate buildings ruins performance, 100 factories in one state takes 1/100th the processing time of 1 factory in 100 states.

They always use rounding because on release Vicotria 3 had digits which resulted in thousands of 0.24% of polynesians, 0.01% of poles 0.17% of germans with migration which resulted in astronomical resource hog because game calculated pop demands and jobs for each and every 0.01 minority for every province.

This still happens, I don't think it has anything to do with rounding.

 

[Axioms]

https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/foru...y-and-will-start-sucidal-diplo-plays.1564506/

Fucking gold.

 

[thesheeep]

https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/foru...y-and-will-start-sucidal-diplo-plays.1564506/

Fucking gold.

The funniest about nonsense like that is how long bugs of that kind have been known and how obviously easy they would be to fix - and yet, nothing happens.

I truly wonder how they internally organize bug tracking, priorities, etc.
Because they suck so beautifully at it.

 

[Fedora Master]

And it's not even a situation specifically in Vic 3, all PDX games have truce mechanics.

 

[Hace El Oso]

I truly wonder how they internally organize bug tracking, priorities, etc.

 

[Victor1234]

This game clearly didn't get the expected Christmas bump and seems to be circling the drain.

Interestingly, someone has been doing guesstimate regional stats (by nerding the peak and low daily numbers together with times to calculate when US/European/Asian players are on).

Game	Region
HOI IV	AMERICAN region has 50% or more of total players There are similar players in ASIA and EUROPE region
VICTORIA 3	AMERICAN region has 65% or more of total players There are more players in ASIA than EUROPE
CK III	AMERICAN region has 50% or more of total players There are more players in EUROPE than in ASIA
Stellaris	AMERICAN region has 75% or more of total players There are slightly more players in ASIA than EUROPE
EU IV	AMERICAN region has less than 50% of total players There are more players in EUROPE than in ASIA

 

[IDtenT]

It's a PDS game in its first year. Expecting pick up during sale when it wasn't(?) even on discount doesn't say anything.

 

[Victor1234]

I was thinking of "the first patches will bring everyone back who dropped it after release" in terms of the bump. No idea about sales and discounts (IIRC Pdx said they considered it a successful release in terms of sales).

 

[thesheeep]

"the first patches will bring everyone back who dropped it after release"

The problem with that is that the game had (still has) so many glaringly obvious issues and unfinished mechanics that I think people are expecting to have to wait more than just "the first few patches" for the game to get noticeably better - if ever.

I've had the game on my wishlist from the get-go, but from what I've seen I don't really know if it'll ever reach a state where I'd actually consider buying it.

 

[Victor1234]

"the first patches will bring everyone back who dropped it after release"

The problem with that is that the game had (still has) so many glaringly obvious issues and unfinished mechanics that I think people are expecting to have to wait more than just "the first few patches" for the game to get noticeably better - if ever.

I've had the game on my wishlist from the get-go, but from what I've seen I don't really know if it'll ever reach a state where I'd actually consider buying it.

I bought Victoria 1 twice (once on CD and later digital), Vic 2 I bought but regretted and could barely enjoy even with mods and Vic 3 I don't even want to pirate. It's a rare game that I think is too shit to even try for free, but the leak and then the release state turned me off completely. Truly Europa games > Clausewitz games > Jomini games as far as Paradox goes.

 

[Axioms]

"the first patches will bring everyone back who dropped it after release"

The problem with that is that the game had (still has) so many glaringly obvious issues and unfinished mechanics that I think people are expecting to have to wait more than just "the first few patches" for the game to get noticeably better - if ever.

I've had the game on my wishlist from the get-go, but from what I've seen I don't really know if it'll ever reach a state where I'd actually consider buying it.

I bought Victoria 1 twice (once on CD and later digital), Vic 2 I bought but regretted and could barely enjoy even with mods and Vic 3 I don't even want to pirate. It's a rare game that I think is too shit to even try for free, but the leak and then the release state turned me off completely. Truly Europa games > Clausewitz games > Jomini games as far as Paradox goes.

Curious what was bad about V2? In any case Europa Universalis is their original product, the game style fits the engine much better including the real time format, and as a sort of "clicker/idle game for history nerds" is easily the most coherent game in the portfolio of PDS.

 

[Victor1234]

"the first patches will bring everyone back who dropped it after release"

The problem with that is that the game had (still has) so many glaringly obvious issues and unfinished mechanics that I think people are expecting to have to wait more than just "the first few patches" for the game to get noticeably better - if ever.

I've had the game on my wishlist from the get-go, but from what I've seen I don't really know if it'll ever reach a state where I'd actually consider buying it.

I bought Victoria 1 twice (once on CD and later digital), Vic 2 I bought but regretted and could barely enjoy even with mods and Vic 3 I don't even want to pirate. It's a rare game that I think is too shit to even try for free, but the leak and then the release state turned me off completely. Truly Europa games > Clausewitz games > Jomini games as far as Paradox goes.

Curious what was bad about V2? In any case Europa Universalis is their original product, the game style fits the engine much better including the real time format, and as a sort of "clicker/idle game for history nerds" is easily the most coherent game in the portfolio of PDS.

Too freeform and silly yet at the same time restricted. Even with the best mod (Pops of Darkness? PDM? Whatever the historical one was), you'd get silly things happen like super-Germany forming in 1850 or Russia colonizing Africa. Meanwhile, the freedom to intervene as the player (send expeditionary force) to crush rebels and prevent friendly govs from falling, or helping the CSA win the civil war, were removed. More provinces but less tags/countries too.

The premise and joy of early Paradox games to my mind was the history book aspect that the base game provided and mods filled out. EU2, Victoria 1, HOI2 were 'on rails' in the sense that you'd get a good mix of historical trivia and coherent alternate history paths. Sure, it got gamey the more you played it, especially EU2 (really awesome monarch/leaders incoming next year, bad event in 2 years, better save up for it), but I learned far more about the Knights of St John/Hospitallers for example than I have from any other game, including that crazy expedition where they conquered part of the coast of modern day Libya for a few years. Even though historical mods try somewhat, even with the previous mods available nobody has been able (or maybe even really wanted) to replicate that in anything but the first generation of their games.

By Europa games, I didn't mean EU1-2, I meant the Europa engine that powered their early games until circa 2007. I know I used EU2 as an example above, but I played For the Glory recently and couldn't get into it again, while HOI2 and Victoria 1 I'll still play a lot to this day. Clausewitz was their next engine for the EU3 generation and Jomini is the newest one.

https://www.mobygames.com/game-group/game-engine-europa

It's funny you said that about the real time format. I remember when EU1 was coming out, you had a ton of people on their forums complaining "real time?!?! This will never work, how will you manage your administrative stuff and do battles at the same time? It's gotta be turn based or this company will crash and burn!" thinking it'd be as complex as Civ....


Edit: I just checked. EU2's main mod added over 10,000 custom historical events...

 

[Axioms]

"the first patches will bring everyone back who dropped it after release"

The problem with that is that the game had (still has) so many glaringly obvious issues and unfinished mechanics that I think people are expecting to have to wait more than just "the first few patches" for the game to get noticeably better - if ever.

I've had the game on my wishlist from the get-go, but from what I've seen I don't really know if it'll ever reach a state where I'd actually consider buying it.

I bought Victoria 1 twice (once on CD and later digital), Vic 2 I bought but regretted and could barely enjoy even with mods and Vic 3 I don't even want to pirate. It's a rare game that I think is too shit to even try for free, but the leak and then the release state turned me off completely. Truly Europa games > Clausewitz games > Jomini games as far as Paradox goes.

Curious what was bad about V2? In any case Europa Universalis is their original product, the game style fits the engine much better including the real time format, and as a sort of "clicker/idle game for history nerds" is easily the most coherent game in the portfolio of PDS.

Too freeform and silly yet at the same time restricted. Even with the best mod (Pops of Darkness? PDM? Whatever the historical one was), you'd get silly things happen like super-Germany forming in 1850 or Russia colonizing Africa. Meanwhile, the freedom to intervene as the player (send expeditionary force) to crush rebels and prevent friendly govs from falling, or helping the CSA win the civil war, were removed. More provinces but less tags/countries too.

The premise and joy of early Paradox games to my mind was the history book aspect that the base game provided and mods filled out. EU2, Victoria 1, HOI2 were 'on rails' in the sense that you'd get a good mix of historical trivia and coherent alternate history paths. Sure, it got gamey the more you played it, especially EU2 (really awesome monarch/leaders incoming next year, bad event in 2 years, better save up for it), but I learned far more about the Knights of St John/Hospitallers for example than I have from any other game, including that crazy expedition where they conquered part of the coast of modern day Libya for a few years. Even though historical mods try somewhat, even with the previous mods available nobody has been able (or maybe even really wanted) to replicate that in anything but the first generation of their games.

By Europa games, I didn't mean EU1-2, I meant the Europa engine that powered their early games until circa 2007. I know I used EU2 as an example above, but I played For the Glory recently and couldn't get into it again, while HOI2 and Victoria 1 I'll still play a lot to this day. Clausewitz was their next engine for the EU3 generation and Jomini is the newest one.

https://www.mobygames.com/game-group/game-engine-europa

It's funny you said that about the real time format. I remember when EU1 was coming out, you had a ton of people on their forums complaining "real time?!?! This will never work, how will you manage your administrative stuff and do battles at the same time? It's gotta be turn based or this company will crash and burn!" thinking it'd be as complex as Civ....


Edit: I just checked. EU2's main mod added over 10,000 custom historical events...

I mean they are right in some sense. Turn based is superior at a lot of things.

Interesting to see a railroad preferrer in the wild. Not a common opinion these days.

I agree that the railroad events give you more of a push to read Wikipedia or w/e. I know way too much about Poland and Lithuania these days.

Ironically the historical railroading *didn't* involve Paradox making interesting or historical mechanics. Even in Imperator you can't really do anything uniquely Roman for instance. No double magistrates, including Consuls, no Cursus Honorum, no meaningful Patrician gameplay, etc.

Paradox really should make a fantasy game gsg so that people can have fun with a less railroaded product and then maybe the more history focused people can have something less memey to play. Problem is Paradox really has a few distinct audiences that conflict with each other.

 

[Victor1234]

There was someone here in the EU IV thread also nostalgia-ing about EU2's railroad too. IIRC it never really was popular, I think it was just a design/technical limitation (boardgames like EU and Here I Stand had fixed events and the first Pdox game was more or less translating the boardgame).

I don't think they realize what they had on their hands though. Paradox turned away from railroading in a big way for the EU3/V2/HOI3 generation of games (even if mods did the heavy lifting in terms of padding out the game, research, etc), and now at least as far as I can tell from HOI 4, the newest generation is not only back on rails more or less but not really historical beyond a superficial way (ie, focus trees), pleasing nobody. It seems like an unofficial admission/concession to the idea that they couldn't make a coherent AI after all this time, so they bandaid it instead, but if the games have no history or possibility for it anymore, I'm just as happy to go play AGEOD games or Civ and will have more fun.

 

[what am i doing]

Too freeform and silly yet at the same time restricted. Even with the best mod (Pops of Darkness? PDM? Whatever the historical one was), you'd get silly things happen like super-Germany forming in 1850 or Russia colonizing Africa. Meanwhile, the freedom to intervene as the player (send expeditionary force) to crush rebels and prevent friendly govs from falling, or helping the CSA win the civil war, were removed. More provinces but less tags/countries too.

HFM/GFM is ridiculously railroady, if that's more your pace. I have never seen things like that happen in HFM/GFM unless the player is the one doing it and even then the mod makes it difficult. It does happen in HPM/EEM sometimes, but I usually see it restricted to Persia blobbing, other than that EEM tends to have reasonable outcomes.

PDM is the origin point for most mods, but nobody plays PDM by itself anymore since HPM and HFM (and their derivatives) fixed so much.

 

[Victor1234]

Too freeform and silly yet at the same time restricted. Even with the best mod (Pops of Darkness? PDM? Whatever the historical one was), you'd get silly things happen like super-Germany forming in 1850 or Russia colonizing Africa. Meanwhile, the freedom to intervene as the player (send expeditionary force) to crush rebels and prevent friendly govs from falling, or helping the CSA win the civil war, were removed. More provinces but less tags/countries too.

HFM/GFM is ridiculously railroady, if that's more your pace. I have never seen things like that happen in HFM/GFM unless the player is the one doing it and even then the mod makes it difficult. It does happen in HPM/EEM sometimes, but I usually see it restricted to Persia blobbing, other than that EEM tends to have reasonable outcomes.

PDM is the origin point for most mods, but nobody plays PDM by itself anymore since HPM and HFM (and their derivatives) fixed so much.

I'm not a fan of the railroad per say, I just like the historical stops, if that makes sense? I tried HFM too in a Finland game, which is the closest I got to finishing a campaign, but still no. They're just too generic. I looked up EEM's feature list and I know they didn't have much to work with because of the base game, but compared to VIP for Vic 1, it's just bland. A little tweak to China and Central Europe seems to be it in terms of stuff I'd be interested in.

Featuring:​

Extended play to 1956

1 new technology for each technology group

120 new inventions (110 in the new techs, 10 earlier)

Motorized Infantry

Aircraft Carriers

Economic rebalance

Tax refund event to prevent the Liquidity Crisis

Smarter AI

A bunch of bugfixes compared to HPM

More China flavor and suffering. Trade access (sphering) of parts of China after the Taiping or alternative rebellions if you own treaty ports.

Danubian Federation cultures now guaranteed if militancy < 1 and its home country doesn't exist

 

[Axioms]

There was someone here in the EU IV thread also nostalgia-ing about EU2's railroad too. IIRC it never really was popular, I think it was just a design/technical limitation (boardgames like EU and Here I Stand had fixed events and the first Pdox game was more or less translating the boardgame).

I don't think they realize what they had on their hands though. Paradox turned away from railroading in a big way for the EU3/V2/HOI3 generation of games (even if mods did the heavy lifting in terms of padding out the game, research, etc), and now at least as far as I can tell from HOI 4, the newest generation is not only back on rails more or less but not really historical beyond a superficial way (ie, focus trees), pleasing nobody. It seems like an unofficial admission/concession to the idea that they couldn't make a coherent AI after all this time, so they bandaid it instead, but if the games have no history or possibility for it anymore, I'm just as happy to go play AGEOD games or Civ and will have more fun.

You just can't make a strong AI in real time. And you certainly can't make an immersive AI unless you count hard-core scripting as AI.

As far as history you just can't do it for a simple reason. History was functionally random. Any single minor change during key events would have altered the whole course of history. Maybe you could get away with 50 year long games without totally warping it? But who wants to play only 50 years of a gsg?

Also I'll never understand people who play mega-campaigns. You have to intentionally nerf yourself to not conquer the whole world in a single game, much less two, much less 3, much less 4, much less all 5 Paradox historical gsgs. And if you don't try to conquer the world what do you even *do* in say the back half of CK2-3? Or EU4?

 

[Axioms]

https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/foru...king-for-anything-to-actually-matter.1565018/

This thread poster is a hero. And all the updoots on his post, too.

 

[Victor1234]

Those official V3 forums are a mess. The shills are being downvoted, and a post like "no, the game just sucks, Happy?" is getting double digit thumbs up.