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WHAT did they mix up? Dressing a character in the game in a leprechaun suit for St. Patrick's Day? I'd say it was a mix up if they dressed her as a Scot. What is the mix up? I don't even
If the intention was to dress her as the person who was voicing the character, then yes... but... WTF? Why would that be the intention? It makes no fucking sense. The whole idea was to make a model for St. Patrick's Day not to say "LOL WE DRESS HER AS THE PERSON VOICING HER".
THE FUCKING SEXIST BASTARDS! They dressed a character (which has no nationality... not a real one, anyway) in a leprechaun costume without thinking that the woman who was JUST voicing her and was NOT her is not a leprechaun!
1. They wanted to dress Annah up in some holiday attire that had zero connection to the game. They were debating whether or not to put her in an Abraham Lincoln hat, but thought the green bikini fit better. Later they realized that it's common for people to confuse Scotland and Ireland, and boy were they chagrined.
2. The artist heard her voice and mixed up two ethnicities that are very commonly mixed up.
Which seems more likely?
Sure, if your great uncle asks your Thai friend if he likes sushi, it could be because that was just the food he happened to be thinking about before they were introduced. However, it's much more likely he has trouble telling Asians apart. It's not horrible, but it is stupid to pretend that that's not the case.
Uh? Male characters do that sort of "my life has no meaning without you, please oh please let me stay with you" self degrading declarations all the time and nobody bats an eyelid (unless it's a romantic comedy, then the female viewers will be listening with a dopey smile on their faces)
I wonder who made that poster. Gotta love the subliteracy, probably representative of what could be expected from people who tirelessly wank about nefarious privileges of the evil white males.
Anyone who's consistently missed that female characters generally are ridiculously sexualised, while male characters generally aren't, in video games, must be analytically handicapped. But I guess that's the prerogative of being born within the most comfortable group.
I wonder who made that poster. Gotta love the subliteracy, probably representative of what could be expected from people who tirelessly wank about nefarious privileges of the evil white males.
"In Buffy Xander Harris never does one thing that isn't a stupid blunder of some kind, and is always the one who doesn't get the joke. Not just buffy but every female is pretty much infallible. It's not just there but everywhere (that's one that sticks in my mind because it's every single time he does anything)."
This just isn't true. Did you even watch the show? Buffy was manyn things but 'infallible' (as in perfect) was not one of them. And, Zander did his share of 'stupid' things but not really any more than the others. In fact, he was often referred to as the group's 'moral compass'. And, he's also the only one who didn't go evil or 'dark' during the show's run making him the 'purest'.
There are some sexist overtones to Buffy but you missed the mark in your critique, buddy fukkin' BOY.
Good argument. Let's not argue anything, then, let's just say "IT IS HOW IT IS!"
Hey guise, have you noticed how the market seems to favour games like Mass Effect over what the Codex considers to be real CRPGs? So fuck CRPGs, right?
Anyone who's consistently missed that female characters generally are ridiculously sexualised, while male characters generally aren't, in video games, must be analytically handicapped. But I guess that's the prerogative of being born within the most comfortable group.
Noone misses it but it's misguided to give too much of a fuck about such things.
As people who dislike the state of pc gaming, we should not give a fuck, since ultimately it's a trivial non-issue, pointless cosmetic bullshit. If everything else would be enjoyable but womyn in games would be OMG SEXUALIZED, what the fuck would it matter? And as it is, there's a plethora of more important things to be pissed off at than such trivial bullshit.
Also, as mondblut said earlier, If women/trannies/whoever don't like how they are represented in a medium that never was traditionally theirs to begin with, they are free to represent themselves the way they would like to be represented in enternaimnent they themselves create. Crying about being misrepresented in a male-dominated field such as gaming is as retarded as men crying about being misrepresented in fucking Cosmopolitan would be.
Also, as mondblut said earlier, If women/trannies/whatever don't like how they are represented in a medium that never was traditionally theirs to begin with, they are free to represent themselves the way they would like to be represented in enternaimnent they themselves create. Crying about being misrepresented in a male-dominated field such as gaming is as retarded as men crying about being misrepresented in fucking Cosmopolitan would be.
Close but no cigar. Men don't have to cry about Cosmopolitan because there are a multitude of similar magazines aimed at men (QC, Maxim, FHM etc etc) - and vice versa. Feminists don't cry over Playboy because A) Playgirl exists and B) there are magazines who portray women in a completely different fashion from Playboy. Let's ignore the fringe feminists who argue that each and every sexualised representation of a woman perpetuals rape culture or whatever. However, in video games there is no such parity on the market. Hence the whining. If currently one game out of every 20 games has a positive, non-sexualized female character, yay. Would it really hurt us if that ratio switched to 10 out of every 20 games? I'm willing to bet that it wouldn't.
Close but no cigar. Men don't have to cry about Cosmopolitan because there are a multitude of similar magazines aimed at men (QC, Maxim, FHM etc etc) - and vice versa.
Also, as mondblut said earlier, If women/trannies/whatever don't like how they are represented in a medium that never was traditionally theirs to begin with, they are free to represent themselves the way they would like to be represented in enternaimnent they themselves create.
We owe them exactly fucking nothing. If they want a game about "queer people of colour", they have to go and make it themselves.
It is good to know they are trying.
Oh, and neither do we owe them not to laugh our collective asses off at watching the results of them trying.
visions, I have to point out that the statement on "medium that never was traditionally their" is quite far from truth. The number of future trannies-to-be among the 80s game developers is staggering. Sometimes, when I browse wikipedia on oldschool developers, I get a feeling every third among them had cut off his cock at one point of his life.
And yet, for some reason they weren't particularly concerned about crusading for tranny cause with their games. I guess that's because they weren't idiots?
However, in video games there is no such parity on the market. Hence the whining. If currently one game out of every 20 games has a positive, non-sexualized female character, yay. Would it really hurt us if that ratio switched to 10 out of every 20 games? I'm willing to bet that it wouldn't.
The problem is that you are looking at only one part of the market, and from a single perspective.
1. There are many genres and styles of game where girls are much more represented: Adventure games, management games, sims clones, danmaku games, otome games, asian role playing games, etc.
2. Being fanservicy or sexualized doesn't precludes a character from being a positive role model, regardless of the character being male or female. Sexuality is no longer something taboo to be scared of.
3. We have to define what a positive role model is to begin with. Is Diaochan from the Romance of the Three Kingdoms, for example, a positive role model or a negative one?
Well sure. But we can't sweep their whining under the carpet on that basis alone. Heck, Codexers whine about lack of good RPGs and only VD seems to be successfully making a game of his own.
After reading about that "project", it became obvious that it failed because the person behind it is a completely clueless fucktard.
1. There are many genres and styles of game where girls are much more represented: Adventure games, management games, sims clones, danmaku games, otome games, asian role playing games, etc.
Do you mean as players or as characters? In any case, those are marginal niche games to my knowledge and I was mainly talking about the AAA games that dominate the mainstream market.
2. Being fanservicy or sexualized doesn't precludes a character from being a positive role model, regardless of the character being male or female. Sexuality is no longer something taboo to be scared of.
I completely agree. But can you really deny that majority/most of the female characters in video games are little more than fanservice?
3. We have to define what a positive role model is to begin with. Is Diaochan from the Romance of the Three Kingdoms, for example, a positive role model or a negative one?
Fuck if I know, never heard of her. Maybe using "positive role model" was a wrong term. I just wanted to point out that there is an actual issue here, not just some crazy bitches whining over nothing.
Do you mean as players or as characters? In any case, those are marginal niche games to my knowledge and I was mainly talking about the AAA games that dominate the mainstream market.
MMOs make more money than those AAA games you mentioned. The female ratio in them is up from 40%, up to way more than 50% in particular cases.
In those games Female characters usually look like this...
... and are just as objectified as males are.
And most girls enjoy the look of their characters and spend hours making them the hottest, cutest, loveliest they can, which to be honest means you are white knighting people who don't want to be white knighted to begin with.
It depends on what you define as just fanservice. Given most female leads and main characters are more than able to hold their own one way or another whether you consider them T&A or strong female leads who kick ass and aren't affraid of their own sexuality is up to you.
Given most games involve killing thousands upon thousands of defenseless monsters where you see fanservice other sees a girl who is more than able to hold her own and slaughter thousands without looking tomboyish nor getting her hair in a mess. *shrug*
*ahem* Those were the last days of the Eastern Han dynasty. The fat, ugly, dirty, and evil Dong Zhuo had taken the imperial family hostage and deposed the young emperor, replacing him with the Prince of Chenliu while hoarding all true power himself. As chaos spread through the land a coalition of several warlords was formed to kick his vast and mostly formless butt, yet all their efforts were for naught.
My AMBITION is not enough to defeat him!
My blood needs more FIRE!
Is this the end of true NOBILITY?
Why I do nothing but wander and beg for food like a hobo when I am suposed to be both a warlord and the hero of the story? Also, JUSTICE and RIGHTEOUSNESS!
Yet when all seemed lost and China was about to be renamed DongZhuoLandia as the coalition armies were powerless to stop him...
Who needs armies when you look this good? You, big guy, how about you free innocent and defenseless little me from your adoptive dad sweaty dirty hands? I'll be -really- grateful to you. *wink*
... and thus...
A choice between fatass daddy and hot dancer girl is no choice at all. Die, daddy, die! Hot midriff is mine!
... China was saved for the time being, and CHArisma was shown to be the most IMBA stat ever.
Only in Aion/Lineage/their clones. Western MMOs have a bit better presentation:
Ultima Online:
World of Warcraft:
Old Republic:
And most girls enjoy the look of their characters and spend hours making them the hottest, cutest, loveliest they can, which to be honest means you are white knighting people who don't want to be white knighted to begin with.
Having spent four years in a big RP guild in WoW and two years in a big RP guild in UO, I strongly contend that declaration. None of the female gamers that I were in extended contact with fiddled around endlessly with their outfits. Many had "social", special outfits, for sure but none of them ever claimed "ooh I wish the female characters were bustier" or "what bummer, I can't find anything sexy for my character to wear". Neither were they walking around in the getups that the 14-year old boys put their female characters in. I'm not white knighting anyone, just trying to talk some sense into the guys who seriously claim that there isn't any problem at all.
It depends on what you define as just fanservice. Given most female leads and main characters are more than able to hold their own one way or another whether you consider them T&A or strong female leads who kick ass and aren't affraid of their own sexuality is up to you.
Given most games involve killing thousands upon thousands of defenseless monsters where you see fanservice other sees a girl who is more than able to hold her own and slaughter thousands without looking tomboyish nor getting her hair in a mess. *shrug*
I've never had a problem with Lara Croft. Looking good while kicking ass, A-OK. Or the bird from NOLF1&2. Or the chick from Oni. They are sexy but sexy isn't their main defining trait. Unlike Rayne, the latex-fetish-suit wearing half-vampire.
I mainly have a problem with female characters like Elena Sinclair from SiN:
She's supposed to be a high-powered CEO but in-game she's nothing more than a stereotypical villain in a bikini babe body. Still, it would be entirely acceptable T&A fanservice (ooh, a super-sexualized villain who tries to seduce the player!) if her ilk (and the Princess Peach damsel in distress types) weren't far more common than the Lara types.
Aion was one of the most played MMOs by female gamers, at times quite above 50%, and most Asian MMOs have really high female populations too.
Obviously what you consider "better presentation" isn't representative of what female gamers want, which is what we are discussing. Your opinion on either art style is unimportant to that point.
I've never had a problem with Lara Croft. Looking good while kicking ass, A-OK. Or the bird from NOLF1&2. Or the chick from Oni. They are sexy but sexy isn't their main defining trait. Unlike Rayne, the latex-fetish-suit wearing half-vampire.
So all of a sudden this is less about objectifying woman and more about what you personally enjoy?
Let me tell you something that you will be one of the few here to understand: Kpop girl bands are ridiculously popular among teen and young adult girls, including those like After School.
And last time I did check the discussion was about objectifying girls and why most of us aren't part of "gaming culture." If what you and others said were true then those groups would not have the female following they have.
This is not that strange, though. Most guys white knight an ideal they have of what girls are instead of what girls are. *shrug*
She's supposed to be a high-powered CEO but in-game she's nothing more than a stereotypical villain in a bikini babe body. Still, it would be entirely acceptable T&A fanservice (ooh, a super-sexualized villain who tries to seduce the player!) if her ilk (and the Princess Peach damsel in distress types) weren't far more common than the Lara types.
Why don't you start by stoping to decide you know what most girls see as desirable roles? I know far more girls who want to be a pretty distressed princess being rescued by hot guys (which is directly or indirectly the plot of more than half Otome games ever written, since we are at it) than girls wanting to be Lara Croft.
And you would be surprised of how many want to be Hyuna.
*goes and read or see girlsm drooling over some 'hot guy with muskles or cutsey 'girly' features*
yeah, sexist sexual objectivication is a one way street. i mean, women *NEVER* do that.
FFS There is a reason why harlequin Romance have existed in popualrity for fukkin'm decades. L0L Or daytime dramas.
Or the streotypical couple watching a game of football with the guy cheering on the QB with the best stats.. and the gal cheering on the QB with the best ass...
*goes and read or see girlsm drooling over some 'hot guy with muskles or cutsey 'girly' features*
yeah, sexist sexual objectivication is a one way street. i mean, women *NEVER* do that.
FFS There is a reason why harlequin Romance have existed in popualrity for fukkin'm decades. L0L Or daytime dramas.
Or the streotypical couple watching a game of football with the guy cheering on the QB with the best stats.. and the gal cheering on the QB with the best ass...
Who cares if it's popular with the masses? Generic characters exemplify the "banal/shit/boring" stuff that the Codex complains about. Ancient evils awakening to destroy the world tend to be boring. Chosen one from a small village tend to be boring. "If a female character merely talks to you then she will fall in love with you" stuff tends to be boring. When I first saw the "I think I'm in love with Annah" options in PST, I was surprised because I had just picked her up and talked to her about twice. It was stupid, and made no sense. Neither did her attraction to me. I'm a rotting corpse without much personality and she falls for me. Eh, OK.
It's predictable. It's boring. Yes, it also pisses people off, and we all love that. But is that enough of a reason to put up with generic shit?
That's not SiN, it's SiN Episodes. Which was to SiN what FO3 was to Fallout, except made by the same company. Also, it's Elexis, and in the original SiN she was a pretty good villain, mainly because she is quite sexualized... and she and Blade hate each others' guts.
