KickStarter Vigilantes: neo-noir, turn based tactical RPG

[Timeslip]

Any plans for giving allies personalized dialogue when they report back from operations?

Could well happen. Am committing a much greater % of time to content, especially writing from now on. Will start with the things that must be in the game, and spread out from there.

 

[Timeslip]

Question: does crafting work? I got Ray to 30 Crafting but couldn't upgrade weapons.

Crafting now uses the skill of the highest available character (not on operation, not building facilities, not resting)

 

[Timeslip]

I was referring to the 1st mission where Sam meets the giggle doc.
Doc says something along the lines of "let me patch you up for free", but Sam still had injury that he suffered during that mission.

He will also fix up any injuries from V26 on.

 

[Taka-Haradin puolipeikko]

http://timeslipsoftworks.com/forum/index.php/topic,533.0.html

+ Experimental: The perks solar plexis strike, deep cut, and concussive blow are free to all characters. Firearms have much lower damage scaling with skills, but considerably higher damage overall.
+ Equipment weight is now taken into consideration, and can lead to characters being encumbered, and negative status effects.
+ It is now harder to target the head (75% -> 60% cth modifier), but attacks to head do more damage (130% -> 150%)

These all sound good.
My bro (who is massive Jagged Alliance 2 fan) immediately started to complain about firearms damage scaling when he tried the game.
Though that is one of his pet peeves in games.

 

[Lhynn]

Stop damage scaling. its always a bad idea.
The bullet doesnt hit harder just because you are a better shot. There are aimed shots for that.

 

[agris]

Which is one of the reasons why F:NV is so unsatisfying - weapon damage scaling with skill is a complete shit mechanic.

 

[Timeslip]

Have to admit, not fond of games that level scale the enemies (Hey, I just earned that level up!) though can understand why really big, open ended games with wandering enemies use it. Is the fear and loathing of damage scaling linked to realism? If so, damage scaling from firearms/explosives is bad, but from melee weapons is okay? Am willing to take a look at it

 

[Abu Antar]

What should improve is the chance of a critical hit, imo.

 

[Timeslip]

What should improve is the chance of a critical hit, imo.

Will have a look at it. Would expect that some weapons will get a buff to critical, and there will be some perks which support a critical hit character build.

 

[Taka-Haradin puolipeikko]

http://timeslipsoftworks.com/forum/...HPSESSID=cc05546cef37b6c2dceaa8c648064d2a#new

The weight system was sitting there mostly complete (possibly since version 1) so it seemed like it was time to hook it up

Provisionally, lightly encumbered (>50%) is -1 initiative and heavily encumbered (>75%) is -1AP, -2 initiative.

Good ideas for utility, very likely at least one will be added.

Yeah, those perks are now linked to the melee weapon types. Have had some feedback on firearms having lower damage, so this seemed like a good way to even out a boost to firearm damage. An area am interested in at the minute is perks for weapons (including one ultimate perk for each) so if you have any ideas, let me know.

Unarmed
Bladed
Blunt
Handgun + SMG
Shotgun
Assault Rifle
Precision Rifle
Explosives

 

[udm]

What should improve is the chance of a critical hit, imo.

Will have a look at it. Would expect that some weapons will get a buff to critical, and there will be some perks which support a critical hit character build.

I didn't realise damage scaling was in there (didn't pay enough attention to the numbers). Abu Antar made a good suggestion: linking critical chance to weapon skill.

One of my favourite PnP systems is d00lite by DwD Studios. It's also percentile based; damage is entirely based off weapons. How you get crits is, for every 10% you increase your skill/ability, you get a 1% increment to your crit chance (and reduce 1% for crit failure). It's a very elegant way of making your skill matter, regardless of what weapon you're using.

Not saying you should take from PnP since Vigilantes is a different genre, but yeah, damage scaling with skill is something that I'm not a big fan of too.

In other news, I've been playing more Vigilantes over the last few weeks (finally had the time). I don't know, there's something about it that I really like. It doesn't feel like nuXCOM, which I appreciate, and although it doesn't have the tactical diversity of JA2, it's still not just a simple "run and flank" type of game. The overall feel is just good.

 

[Infinitron]

Meet Edgar Kowalski, who enters the fray as an ally in Version 26 of neo noir turn based tactical RPG, Vigilantes. Edgar's a Reiker City Fire-fighter. He's a hard hitting melee fighter with a knack for explosives, and he's absolutely not a firebug!

 

[Timeslip]

What should improve is the chance of a critical hit, imo.

I didn't realise damage scaling was in there (didn't pay enough attention to the numbers). Abu Antar made a good suggestion: linking critical chance to weapon skill.

One of my favourite PnP systems is d00lite by DwD Studios. It's also percentile based; damage is entirely based off weapons. How you get crits is, for every 10% you increase your skill/ability, you get a 1% increment to your crit chance (and reduce 1% for crit failure). It's a very elegant way of making your skill matter, regardless of what weapon you're using.

Not saying you should take from PnP since Vigilantes is a different genre, but yeah, damage scaling with skill is something that I'm not a big fan of too.

Am open to the idea, but would like to understand underlying problems with damage scaling first. Otherwise, it would feel like making random changes. Is the basis for disliking damage scaling because it feels unrealistic, or is it something else? If so, would it make sense that damage scaling doesn't happen for firearms or explosives, but does for unarmed/melee, where technique is as important as raw strength or speed? Would need to see how these changes could be balanced and how they would effect the game, but this could be workable. A small bonus to crit% for all weapons, based on skill seems workable. Removing damage scaling for unarmed seems less feasible as it would require a progression of knuckle duster type items, a heavy reliance on perks/stats for additional damage, or the introduction of stronger attack types when you hit a certain skill (which is damage scaling).

In other news, I've been playing more Vigilantes over the last few weeks (finally had the time). I don't know, there's something about it that I really like. It doesn't feel like nuXCOM, which I appreciate, and although it doesn't have the tactical diversity of JA2, it's still not just a simple "run and flank" type of game. The overall feel is just good.

Glad you're having fun, udm . Now that there's way less emphasis on adding features, getting a lot of content and balancing work done (even early drafts of the game's endings, which is a nice thing to work on). A few more updates will make a radical difference in the amount of dialogue, items, perks and help smooth out a lot of the rough edges.

 

[Abu Antar]

What you could do, is to make weapons ignore some armor, maybe. I don't know if that would make sense or not, but it sounds good in my head. Maybe have different weapons give different damage over time effects, like bleeding for example.

 

[Lhynn]

Removing damage scaling for unarmed seems less feasible as it would require a progression of knuckle duster type items, a heavy reliance on perks/stats for additional damage, or the introduction of stronger attack types when you hit a certain skill (which is damage scaling).

Unarmed damage scaling makes sense, you do hit harder the better you get at it, you could also give it a chance to inflict status effects, or when you do crit, also increasing crit damage. Heck, if you wanted to you could even get some martial styles in your game with different bonuses. Stuff like swiching from Wing Chun to Baguazhang to Boxing would give unarmed some depth and also make for some cool gameplay for very little effort, just an icon or two and some numerical differences. Amazed its not used more often in games. It would also go rather well with the sense of aesthetic you seem to be trying to push.
Increasing crit chance for weapons as your skill level increases seems sensible. Also unlocking some benefits at thresholds could be interesting, like faster reload, which have an indirect effect on damage.

 

[udm]

Am open to the idea, but would like to understand underlying problems with damage scaling first. Otherwise, it would feel like making random changes. Is the basis for disliking damage scaling because it feels unrealistic, or is it something else?

Yeah for me it's just that it doesn't really make much sense. It also introduces a very linear style of progression with regard to ranged weapons, when it should be distinct compared to the handling of other weapon types (e.g. melee).

Personally I'm fine with melee relying on stats for damage calculations.

 

[Abu Antar]

For ranged weapons, you can also have different types of ammo. Armor piercing damage, concussive damage, etc.

 

[Timeslip]

What you could do, is to make weapons ignore some armor, maybe. I don't know if that would make sense or not, but it sounds good in my head. Maybe have different weapons give different damage over time effects, like bleeding for example.

Am considering the possibility of doing that for knives, though haven't worked out the details yet. The basic status effect perks for close combat (knives - bleeding, unarmed - winded, blunt - concussed) are now free to all characters.

Unarmed damage scaling makes sense, you do hit harder the better you get at it, you could also give it a chance to inflict status effects, or when you do crit, also increasing crit damage. Heck, if you wanted to you could even get some martial styles in your game with different bonuses. Stuff like swiching from Wing Chun to Baguazhang to Boxing would give unarmed some depth and also make for some cool gameplay for very little effort, just an icon or two and some numerical differences. Amazed its not used more often in games. It would also go rather well with the sense of aesthetic you seem to be trying to push.
Increasing crit chance for weapons as your skill level increases seems sensible. Also unlocking some benefits at thresholds could be interesting, like faster reload, which have an indirect effect on damage.

Yeah for me it's just that it doesn't really make much sense. It also introduces a very linear style of progression with regard to ranged weapons, when it should be distinct compared to the handling of other weapon types (e.g. melee).

Personally I'm fine with melee relying on stats for damage calculations.

Ah, ok. Testing V26 for release at the minute, but will look into removing damage scaling for firearms and explosives, and the possibility of increasing critical hit chance in V27.

For ranged weapons, you can also have different types of ammo. Armor piercing damage, concussive damage, etc.

Did some theory work and calculations on that idea around 2 weeks ago. Decided would be best to put it on the shelf until more of the work that needs to be done is complete. Hard to say right now, but it's a good idea.

 

[udm]

Okay cool. I'll hold off playing more Vigilantes until V26 is out.

 

[udm]

Dammit Timeslip you had to release V26 on my busiest day of the week, didn't you

 

[Timeslip]

Dammit Timeslip you had to release V26 on my busiest day of the week, didn't you

*Sets future release schedule for wednesday nights*

 

[Infinitron]

 

[Taka-Haradin puolipeikko]

http://timeslipsoftworks.com/forum/index.php/topic,533.0.html

[Content]
+ Added new crafting recipes: Sawn Off Orthrus, Nailed Baseball Bat
+ Added 2 new melee weapons: Combat Machete & Nailed Baseball Bat
+ Added 2 new firearms: Abramovich Pump (shotgun) & General Arms Red Hawk (pistol)
+ Added new perk: Better Criticals (Critical hits do 40% more damage)
+ Added new perk: Volatile (50% chance of +50% explosives damage)
+ Added new perk: UPLIFT! (Gain a free stat point)
+ Added new perk: Pack Mule (+15 lbs max carry weight)
+ Added new perk: Berserker Charge (+3 Movement AP, activated, 3 round cooldown)
+ Added 2 city outskirts maps
+ Added a new ally encounter for Edgar
+ Added a new non combat encounter: Method Actor
+ Added a new pre combat encounter: From The Past
+ Added trading cards


[Balance]
+ Experimental: Low level gang members are less frequently armed with firearms. The chance to be equipped with firearms increases with the gang's equipment level.
+ Experimental: The perks solar plexis strike, deep cut, and concussive blow are free to all characters. Firearms have much lower damage scaling with skills, but considerably higher damage overall.
+ Enemy rackets now provide more substantial bonuses.
+ Equipment weight is now taken into consideration, and can lead to characters being encumbered, and negative status effects.
+ It is now harder to target the head (75% -> 60% cth modifier), but attacks to head do more damage (130% -> 150%)
+ Shotguns now have a smaller cone angle, but more range and damage
+ Modified stats and skills for allies
+ Church of the Final Exodus characters are now stronger, and get a bonus to their melee equipment level
+ Survivalists now have a penalty to their melee equipment level
+ Well oiled perk is now as "Tinkerer" and the reduction to item condition from use extends to armour.
+ Athletic Perk now adds +2 movement AP, rather than a single action point


[Feature Improvements]
+ Added movement AP. Characters start with none by default, but can gain movement AP through perks and equipment.
+ Skills can now be increased as a reward from dialogue encounters


[Tweaks]
+ Improved display format for injury heal time for better clarity.
+ Characters can now reposition through allies.
+ Added options for toggling reflections and fog.
+ A weapon's selected attack type is recorded between turns and when switching weapons.


[Fixes]
+ Crafting time was not including allies which are otherwise busy. (Ushas)
+ Prevented facility upgrades being purchased when an upgrade in underway. (Ushas)
+ Attempts to throw grenades beyond throw range are now clearly signalled to the player. (Wee Hours Games)
+ After encountering Doc, injuries will now be healed. (Murkki017)
+ Fixed an issue where allies could be stuck on an operation
+ Fixed issue with dragging stacks of items in the shop not immediately removing the stack. (LoveTruffle & Murkki017)
+ Non combat encounters will no longer occur multiple times.
+ Fixed a number of minor issues with a downtown map.

Is "Solar Plexus Strike" supposed to provide passive change to cause "Winded" ailment? Saw that happen couple of times when playing first 2 levels.
Do "Concussive Blow" and "Deep Cut" also have passive change to cause status effects associated to those or does "Solar Plexus Strike" work differently from those 2?

edit.
In my new game Sam can do "Solar Plexus Strike" from the start, but doesn't know how to do "Concussive Blow".
1st found ally (Slav soldier" can't seem to do any of those special close combat attacks.
I presume that those perks are activated when certain proficiency on close combat skill is reached.

 

[Timeslip]

Is "Solar Plexus Strike" supposed to provide passive change to cause "Winded" ailment? Saw that happen couple of times when playing first 2 levels.

Yep, winded is -1 ap. Useful if your enemies are unarmed and have 6ap.

Do "Concussive Blow" and "Deep Cut" also have passive change to cause status effects associated to those or does "Solar Plexus Strike" work differently from those 2?
edit.
In my new game Sam can do "Solar Plexus Strike" from the start, but doesn't know how to do "Concussive Blow".
1st found ally (Slav soldier" can't seem to do any of those special close combat attacks.
I presume that those perks are activated when certain proficiency on close combat skill is reached.

Concussive blow is linked to blunt weapons, and give enemies a -5% cth (if memory serves) whereas deep cut is linked to bladed weapons and inflicts bleeding. All these skills have a 15% chance to trigger, not linked to skill at present. Every character can inflict them, so would suspect the RNG is being fickle for Arcadi.

Curious to what you think about balance between melee and firearms. On my testing it felt like firearms are now better than melee, but made Sam a ranged fighter, and he's typically the strongest character, so that might have skewed this impression. There are a few perks in there for better mobility (athletic and berserker charge), which are very useful for getting melee characters close.

Also was playing on Hardboiled, and found it incredibly difficult at the start, likely due to a buff for churchers, which I'd usually target first. This lasted until level 3-4, and it started getting easier. We've talked about this before, but have some ideas for improving difficultly curve in V27.

 

[ArchAngel]

So is the v30 the release version