Warhammer Warhammer 40,000: Gladius - Relics of War - turn-based 4X from Slitherine

[DakaSha V]

Just realized the engine is the same as pandoras. Not that pandora looks great or anything, but it is a very well performing engine with incredibly short AI turn times (even with the AI updates)

Im fighting the urge to purchase now. Ail says the chances of him working on the AI are pretty good, and that the current AI is pretty decent if you crank up the difficulty. I may cave

 

[thesheeep]

Positive review:

"There is diplomacy in this game. You can decide if you want to shoot them or blow them up. That's the kind of diplomacy I like."

It is also on Linux, so given that and the positive review, this one will go straight to the wishlist.

 

[Galdred]

I played the beta:
Actually, to make the game more difficult, you only have to use (fixed) alliances, and go 1 vs 2, 2 vs 3 , or 2 vs 4.
In FFA (ie no alliances), most games were decided by whether AI would kill each other while you turtled in the corner or go for you and crush you before you could do anything.

I had some good fun with it, but the game still pales in comparison to Warlock 2. One big issue it has is replayability:
Even though all 4 factions feel very distinct, there is little reason to go for a different build order within a given faction. Also Air Power dominates everything (but it is late gamish), so with all factions, it is a rush to get air units out.

Also, it lacks some key stapple units (ground based transports for Space Marines), and suffer from the reverse Sanctus Reach problem:
In Sanctus Reach, bolt weapons were almost as effective against anything (a heavy bolter/assault Cannon shot from the rear was stronger than a lascannon attack).
Here, using AT weapons against everything works just fine, and there is little reason to deviate from the heaviest weapons you can find.

The economy feels like a German board game: a lot of things to optimize, and if you mess your calculations up, it might be impossible to recover:
All resources (food, minerals, energy, influence, loyalty, research) require a building (which takes up from 33 to 100% of a tile depending on the tile), energy, and population to work them.
Population consumes food each turn, and has a loyalty upkeep (as does having several cities), and needs housing buildings.
Each tile consumes influence every turn.
So basically, you need a lot of building just to ensure that everything works, and roughly 50% of your building slots needs to be decidated to that (ie 1 food + 1 housing+1 energy+ 1 population + loyalty + 0.5 influence for each 6 units of pop, which leaves you 1.5 units of pop to do something else).

Not everyone dislike it, but I think it adds a lot of micro decisions that detracts too much from the larger picture.

That said, with expansions and patches, it could really improve, and they sure did a great job of fine tuning Pandora, so I'd wait for a sale, but getting it now is perfectly reasonable IMO, especially if you crave for 40K games.

 

[DakaSha V]

just gonna pirate it for now

 

[Galdred]

Also, when interacting with the devs during the beta, they seemed to be quite reasonable, and to understand the issues that were pointed out to them (while many just shrug it off, saying that it is the way the game was supposed to be played, or whatever).
In the latest build,
Necrons = Easy mode
Space Marines = Easy if rushing, hard the longer it gets
Orks = Medium
IG/AM = Impossible difficulty early on, but they have the best aircrafts later on, and Baneblades too.

 

[RK47]

Yeah not feeling it. Refunded. Had more fun with warlock.

 

[DakaSha V]

My first (very early) impression is that one has to ignore that this is a Warhammer game (its main selling point), accept that the production values are garbage, and one might discover a quite cool and fairly deep underlying combat model, and fun strategy game (provided the AI holds up).

 

[Galdred]

My first (very early) impression is that one has to ignore that this is a Warhammer game (its main selling point), accept that the production values are garbage, and one might discover a quite cool and fairly deep underlying combat model, and fun strategy game (provided the AI holds up).

What do you find so un-warhammer about the game?
You can probably cosnider research as getting the required infrastructures up.
The main problem would be Space Marines vs Astra Militarium, but you can make them allies.

The AI is actually quite serviceable: it will pull down damaged units and body block with other.
It doesn't prioritize the player, though, which is good and bad atr the same time (all AI ganging up on the player can get old, but on the other hand, it can make it too easy to just tech up and turtle while AI try to kill each other).
However, it has the memory of a goldfish, and will then come back to the areas it had withdrawn from 2 turns earlier.

 

[DakaSha V]

My first (very early) impression is that one has to ignore that this is a Warhammer game (its main selling point), accept that the production values are garbage, and one might discover a quite cool and fairly deep underlying combat model, and fun strategy game (provided the AI holds up).

What do you find so un-warhammer about the game?

Production value. When somebody buys a warhammer game they likely expect something with more oomph (though not necessarily good gameplay). for such a big, well known IP, the game feels like a thrown together mod.

Its way too early to tell, but I am digging the combat model so far.

 

[ricolikesrice]

accept that the production values are garbage,

how so ? i thought from screenshots and videos that the units and their animations look better than those of CiV or Endless Legend. are my eyes playing tricks on me or did you mean compared to Dawn of War ? ( in which case i d obviously agree )

 

[DakaSha V]

accept that the production values are garbage,

how so ? i thought from screenshots and videos that the units and their animations look better than those of CiV or Endless Legend. are my eyes playing tricks on me or did you mean compared to Dawn of War ? ( in which case i d obviously agree )

I expect much more from a game with this large, and over the top, of an IP behind it. Endless legend is just some game, and civ, though obviously a large well known thing, isnt known for its visuals.

edit: The graphics dont matter to me. But I dont feel immersed in the corny ass WH universe, The game doesnt even HAVE ORC VOICES (Or any voice overs for that matter)

 

[Galdred]

It is true that Slitherine 40k games have relatively low production values:
SSI 40k games had FMV (Final Liberation), voices and chorus (Chaos Gate), but they were also on the low end when it comes to graphic quality at this time.

 

[ricolikesrice]

Galdred what can you say about hero s and units balance thus far ? Do lower tier units remain usefull through the whole game or is it all about endgame units later on ? (which would suck and was a major turnoff for me in warlock )

For example if i play space marines .... does my "endgame" still involve tactical and bike squads or is it all about masses of terminators and tanks ?

 

[DakaSha V]

Just played a game with Necrons on "Hard" (AI's get a moderate bonus), and I will say that it does NOT play passively. It made some stupid mistakes but still steamrolled me, for being unprepared. That at least is nice.

 

[Galdred]

Galdred what can you say about hero s and units balance thus far ? Do lower tier units remain usefull through the whole game or is it all about endgame units later on ? (which would suck and was a major turnoff for me in warlock )

For example if i play space marines .... does my "endgame" still involve tactical and bike squads or is it all about masses of terminators and tanks ?

Actually, it is not so much a problem of early vs late game units, as a problem of some units being pretty underpowered:
Tactical Marines are not good late game, because they are mostly good at dealing with unarmored infantry, which is not very threatening late game.
On the other hand, Devastator Marines (early-mid game unit) remains very useful for the whole game.
Same goes for the Space Marines Heroes: The Force Commander and the Chaplain are both very good from the beginning to the end.
Some units even becomre much better with upgrades: The early Predators are nothing to write home about, and suffer from a very low firepower, but upgunned with 2 sponson mounted lascannons late game, they become formidable.

On the AM side, the flashlight infantry are bad from the beginning of the game, so they remain irrelevant late game, but you have other things to produce, so you don't make them anymore.
On the other hand, Commissars remain strong for the whole game, and can even make mediocre units relevant, while Basilisk, a mid/late game unit is rather unconvincing (it deals low damage from a very large range, but given that your infantry melts easily, you cannot really prevent opponents from getting to them easily).

But I think Necron units are overall more consistent.

 

[Galdred]

The MP was quite fun, though. I don't know whether there is a strong community or not, but it could be worth it for that. I was not able to get that many games rolling during the beta (I played 2 games in MP).
But the imbalances can also make it frustrating (I'd suggest going with Necrons, or maybe Space Marines if you are more comfortable with a rush play).

 

[Infinitron]

https://www.pcgamer.com/warhammer-40000-gladius-relics-of-war-review/

WARHAMMER 40,000 GLADIUS - RELICS OF WAR REVIEW

As I start my final assault, I wonder if there’s a chapter in the Space Marine tactical codices on moving in hexes. It quite suits their methodical murder-all-heresy style. One by one, I move squads of bread-and-butter tactical marines into a front line. Then I pepper the line with close-combat captains and damage-boosting chaplains, and bring up a few predator tanks from the rear. With each turn I send them on a plodding death-march across the entire map.

It’s more relaxing than a Warhammer 40,000 turn-based 4X strategy game should be. In my first game the Orks are wiped out before I start putting my full army together. The human Astra Militarum forces offered a little bit of resistance until my dreadnoughts punched all of the hitpoints out of their tanks. After several turns spent punching and shooting the central tower in their base, they were gone. The robotic Necrons—the fourth playable race—put up even less resistance.

Gladius - Relics of War is a solidly made strategy game, but a bland one. The UI for basebuilding, troop production and movement is clear and intuitive, but you’re not asked to make any difficult decisions as you build up your fortress to generate more resources. The tech tree simply asks you to research two technologies from a small selection before you access the next tier, giving you a clear, if simplistic choice, of which units and buildings you want to prioritise. The four playable factions have a series of mission objectives to complete to win a game, which tend to involve researching particular technologies and moving specific units to a point on the map. This tells a loose story about the planet Gladius, but you’re likely to wipe the other factions out before you get close to its final stages.

In a universe in which there is famously ‘only war’ it’s difficult to come up with a sensible diplomacy system, so there isn’t one. Gladius - Relics of War is all about producing units and moving them around though, as with base building, the troop production and combat systems aren’t particularly deep. Fans of hex-based Warhammer 40,000 games might remember the challenging Rites of War, which called back to meatier wargames like Panzer General 2. Gladius ain’t that. Units have attack, defence, armour penetration and morale values, but if you build a big clump of every unit you can unlock and push the army forward, you won’t have to worry about most of those stats.

Orks have loyalty problems to reflect their rowdiness, Necrons regenerate a little bit of health each turn and can teleport to cities, but most of the differences between each faction are minimal. They all have combat specialists, basic line units, anti-armour options and a smattering of heroes who level up over time and unlock abilities. Normally these consist of a big hit on a cooldown, a ranged poke, and a passive faction wide resource boost. Whatever the faction, you produce as many units as you can, put them in a big line, and move them at the enemy base.

I wouldn’t mind the game’s simplicity if it captured more of the spectacle of Warhammer 40,000. The units are faithful to the tabletop originals but in motion they are stiff and mostly unexciting to watch. Grenade attacks looks like one unit is hurling a bunch of rocks at another, and when members of a unit die their bodies sink awkwardly into the ground and vanish. Enemies can behave oddly too. They tend to fall back when damaged, but will sometimes come right back and fight you even if they haven’t recovered. I haven’t seen the AI make any structured pushes on my base, which adds to the feeling that you’re just there to mop up the map.

Maybe some bigger explosions would help the ponderous exploration section, which you spend exposing procedurally generated terrain and blasting local insects. There are resource points scattered around that you can capture, and ancient relics that provide army-wide boosts to speed, damage or sight range, but the planet gets samey after a couple of games, and without the depth of a full-fat 4X game, it’s not as replayable. Perhaps with updates and expansions it will gain some complexity and nuance, but until then unless you truly adore the setting, play Endless Legend instead.

THE VERDICT
61

WARHAMMER 40,000: GLADIUS - RELICS OF WAR
A plodding and predictable 4X strategy game that's relaxing in its own way, but rarely challenging.

 

[DakaSha V]

What a shit review (not due to score. I havent decided on that yet)

 

[Galdred]

On second thoughts, one thing Gladius does a bit better than Warlock is "pacing", or streamlining or whatever you call it:
Warlock 2 endgames usually degenerate in never ending turns (granted, an human opponent might have abandonned for long), while Gladius games usually don't have this overwhelming end stage. Even late game, you don't field that many units in most cases, because of upkeep and attrition.

What a shit review (not due to score. I havent decided on that yet)

Indeed, the game has issues, but it is certainly not trivial, unless you play on easy or whatever...
That said, the game should insist more on the fact that Space Marines and Necrons are much easier to play than the other two factions.
Also, team games makes it much easier to customize the difficulty (going 1 vs 3 instead of 1 vs 1 vs 1 vs 1 is certainly not relaxing or easy...).

 

[DakaSha V]

What a shit review (not due to score. I havent decided on that yet)

Indeed, the game has issues, but it is certainly not trivial, unless you play on easy or whatever...
That said, the game should insist more on the fact that Space Marines and Necrons are much easier to play than the other two factions.
Also, team games makes it much easier to customize the difficulty (going 1 vs 3 instead of 1 vs 1 vs 1 vs 1 is certainly not relaxing or easy...).

He doesnt even say what difficulty he played on. Its just a typical tiny, and obvious no effort review by a retard that has no idea what hes talking about. As far as 4x' go the combat mechanics are also above average in terms of complexity (though nothing crazy). The game even has a simple moral system, that seems kinda cool.

Having said that i dont think the game IS actually a 4x. Its a wargame with a city building layer (which is fine by me tbh). It seems to do a good job of just being about large and grueling battles across multiple fronts which is fitting, and fun (killing units is quite difficult)

Right now Im playing a 1v1. In all honesty the game seems better designed around 1v1 heads up matches than standard free for all multiple side matches. Of course if one wanted to up the challenge, 1v2 1v3 etc would have a similar effect. But FFA doesnt seem to be the best choice at the moment (also something im fine with)

 

[DakaSha V]

The AI can unfortunately not handle the neutral imperial bastions.

 

[Galdred]

Even as a player, they are sometimes best left alone.
When it comes to 4X, the game has all of the elements:
It has a lot of exploration and expansion. Exploiting relies mostly on expansion, but there are still a few decisions to make when it comes to research.
But it is true it mostly focuses on extermination. Most PC 4X are about conquest rather than extermination. At least, gladius is honest about xenociding other "cultures".

 

[DakaSha V]

Even as a player, they are sometimes best left alone.

Yes, so as a player you do unlike the ai.

When it comes to 4X, the game has all of the elements: It has a lot of exploration and expansion. Exploiting relies mostly on expansion, but there are still a few decisions to make when it comes to research.
But it is true it mostly focuses on extermination. Most PC 4X are about conquest rather than extermination. At least, gladius is honest about xenociding other "cultures".

Ok, so it depends on ones definition of 4x. I really dont care enough about categorization to get into a discussion on this, but for my part the game does not "feel" in any way like a proper 4x regardless of what elements it may technically have. This isn't a bad thing (in fact i prefer it), but people are going to feel duped (as is evidenced by negative reviews on the steam page)

edit: Overall the game almost feels like a turn based RTS

 

[*-*/\--/\~]

Mislabeled or not, the game is not bad. Game journos going mental over it is a sign of incline anyway. Maybe not worth the 35 or so bucks at the moment though... but with some patches (more factions maybe?) and a sale it could be a very good.

 

[Urthor]

Game is definitely a competent Civilisation clone. Pretty okay.

Definitely not worth 35 though wait for the super low sale in 18 months with expansions