Warhammer Warhammer 40,000: Gladius - Relics of War - turn-based 4X from Slitherine

[DakaSha V]

lol civilization clone. Why? Because it has a map, and units?

Mislabeled or not, the game is not bad. Game journos going mental over it is a sign of incline anyway. Maybe not worth the 35 or so bucks at the moment though... but with some patches (more factions maybe?) and a sale it could be a very good.

Agree

 

[GreyViper]

Having had chance to play it, Id say its not bad, but nothing to get overly exited about. As was pointed out it could use some extra content to give it some more variety.
Right now it feels like CiV Beyond Earth and Endless Legend hybrid . Also that gray filter makes it feel a bit bland, but that might be related to the dust that the Ork rock kicked up when it crashed into planet.
Will have to play a bit more, to see if it has replay value.

 

[DakaSha V]

It has some major fucking design flaws, but it has great potential.

If they can fix the fucking (idiotic in some cases) flaws, and get the AI and multiplayer up to snuff, then this will be a GOTY contender for me (its the type of game ive been wanting for some time).

Multiplayer in particular could be great i think (tho id likely stick to getting ass whooped by Ais AI)

 

[Galdred]

I think the system is solid indeed. What I think the game needs at the moment is more variety:
More units, and more balance between units and techs so that you don't always feel compelled to follow the same tech path.
This would really add a lot to replayability.

 

[Thane Solus]

You guys forget that this game probably was made by a team 10 times smaller then CIV, Endless Legends, with a low budget. Considering that, they did a great job, but they need indeed more content, but so far is not bad at all.

 

[DakaSha V]

You guys forget that this game probably was made by a team 10 times smaller then CIV, Endless Legends, with a low budget. Considering that, they did a great job, but they need indeed more content, but so far is not bad at all.

We didn't forget shit, and have the crazyyyyyy ability to judge a game based on merit, and not team size.

 

[sser]

The game is barebones and quite boring. That said, all the factions are pretty unique in their foundations, it's just that once you get past turn 50 or so it becomes a big wash of average turn-based combat.

Also the map looks like absolute mud.

 

[GreyViper]

Honestly this is one of the game that should be full of stuff like Imperial armor & Imperial Aeronautica. Stuff like moving cities from Dark Age or Black ships demanding their tithe if playing as Astra militarium. In Space marine case it could be Grey Knights demanding their best librarian. Similar vein rise certain amount of units as tithe to Imperium. There are lots of ways to add some spice to the same 4x formula. Add some random events with fluff .

 

[ricolikesrice]

enjoying the game a lot so far and not only because its warhammer.... even if it was a generic sci-fi setting i d still like it.

each of the 4 factions seem to play different enough and has 16-18 units to play with, plenty of techs, buildings, etc. .... of course i wouldnt mind even more units and more importantly all major and minor 40k factions to be added ..... but compared to the competition there s plenty of content to start with. i especially love the little details like for example an orc waaghboos being able to get an upgrade named "attack squig" and then you not only get improved stats but there actually appears a little attack squig next to your waaghboss ( unfortunately not all upgrades like that are also visible )

i dont understand all combat mechanics 100% yet but its already obvious there s a lot more depth to it than the combat models of other 4x games.... of course there has to be, because this game is all about combat ... and as such its pretty hard to compare it to Endless Legends or Civ which play completely different even if they look soo similar in screenshots. each unit has different weapon types with different ranges, armor piercing etc. etc. , units can overwatch and pretty much every unit has special abilities like frag grenades, scouting, extra movement, "spells", etc. etc.

obvious problems are AI and game balance, as to be expected from this type of game upon release ( that being said most similar games have far worse AI, i ve seen a handfull of cool combined arms maneuvers that i NEVER seen in other similar games ... but of course stupid moves by the AI outnumber those rare moments of AI brilliance at least 10:1.... ). "balance"-wise i ve found a few units that are really meh and a few units that feel really overpowered but surely balance is gonna be a longterm process and who knows, maybe the units that i find underpowered now have hidden strenghts i just didnt discover yet.

hopefully this one gets a good modding community ( the devs claim its very moddable.... ) like Dawn of War 1. If this at some point in 2-3 years ends up with all major WH40k factions and a couple of minor ones i ll be in turn-based-strategy heaven like i havent been since discovering Fall from Heaven 2 for civ.

end of fanboying

 

[holla_cabezas_de_mierda]

this is actually looking better than I had expected. I thought I would never buy it, now I might buy it when it is 60% off. Can anybody compare it to that other slitherine TB Warhammer game? Sanctus Reach? Better, worse, too different to compare...?

 

[Galdred]

this is actually looking better than I had expected. I thought I would never buy it, now I might buy it when it is 60% off. Can anybody compare it to that other slitherine TB Warhammer game? Sanctus Reach? Better, worse, too different to compare...?

They are very different indeed:
Sanctus Reach is basically a linear set of tactical battles, while Gladius is a game mixing economy and "abstracted" tactics (Sanctus Reach has a scale of 1 character in game = 1 character in the battle it represents, while Gladius has a very abstract scale, being a 4X with a strong emphasis on tactics).
That makes them pretty hard to compare but I would say that Gladius fares betters against its competitors (1UPT civ, so Civ5 and Civ6, Beyond Earth, Warlock) than Sanctus Reach does.
Both are good games, but Sanctus Reach probably won't be improved much anymore (The existing DLC basically cover everything GW licence allowed them to), while Gladius still has a lot of potential(and Proxy Studio, the devs, have shown amazing dedication in their previous game, Pandora First Contact).
SR can already be bought on sale, while Gladius will require you to wait longer to do so.

 

[Beowulf]

A pity it doesn't have PBEM, so multiplayer is a clickfest on occasions (when you are playing with scum, and not monocled gentlemen with slow reflexes).

 

[Galdred]

Old Grizzled Gamers review is up:
https://oldgrizzledgamers.com/reviews/warhammer-40000-gladius-relics-of-war/

Warhammer 40,000: Gladius – Relics of War review (PC) – More Panzer General than 4X

GalpJuly 20, 2018

Warhammer 40K Gladius’ marketing claim that it’s the first ever 4X, Warhammer 40K game. It’s surprising considering the vast quantity of 40K games released. But after playing I sort of understand why. The lore isn’t well suited to a 4X, at least not unless you use a lot more history than we typically see. But as a turn based strategy game it does well with the core job of giving you interesting tactical decisions to make.

The Game
You pick one of only four starting factions and eXplore, eXpand, eXploit and eXterminate in the usual, modern, post Civ-5 fashion. Unlike Civ and most other 4Xs, the expanding and exploiting phases are quite light. The game uses global resource pools and buildings have a mild effect. The end result is that settlements don’t matter as much. There’s no frantic territory gobble and even at the end of the game the map will have huge unexploited chunks.

Being a 40K game completely devoid of diplomacy means it’s really all about the exterminating. Units take up their entire hex so there are no stacks of doom. They’re also very durable so strategy boils down to successfully finishing off enemies before they retreat and heal while avoiding the same with your own troops. There’s some paper/rock/scissors at play, especially with advanced flying units and heroes, but in general it’s more about positioning and controlling your fronts than it is about specific units.


The Civilization heritage is apparent but with a different focus. It’s a war game, unconcerned with civilians or culture.
Hidden Depths
If you’ve played 4Xs and know 40K’s vast pool of units you’ll be up to speed so quickly that you’ll think the game is shallow. And as mentioned, it is in at least two of the Xs. Even the research tree looks too simple with 10 tiers containing a handful of technologies each. City management is also very streamlined and limited to resource gathering and a few troop producing buildings. Without wonders, workers, roads, faction interaction, trade, religion or culture there’s an impression that a lot is missing on your first playthrough. The AI also seemed unaggressive if somewhat better able to handle all the troop shuffling than Civ is.

But then I lost my first playthrough on medium difficulty. It wasn’t a sudden loss, but a slow, inexorable grinding retreat. When I lost my max level hero I gave up and started over on a bigger map and paid a lot more attention. In doing so I realized how much hidden depth and subtlety I ignored and why I rightfully failed. It’s not a game of sudden swings but rather cumulative effects and attrition, which actually models the 40K world very well. Because units are durable but short ranged you’ll pay for over aggression. A steady loss of a unit here or there puts you at an eventual, massive disadvantage when the AI decides to move on you en masse.

You also realize that while the paper/rock/scissors mechanics are not particularly emphasized in firepower, resistance or armor, what really matters is range. A homogenous force of infantry could theoretically do well, but in practice gets torn up when opposed by a mixed force that can bring firepower to bear from a distance. Complicating matters is the universal, total war state of all factions. From the mid-game until the end, you’ll be in constant battle on multiple fronts. It’s the sort of situation that would give any turtling Civ fan anxiety. Once I accepted the world I was in I had a lot of tense fun every turn.


Without a lot of cities, your units end up fighting very far from home on multiple fronts. It makes for an interesting, if protracted experience.
Sludgy & Quick
The interface is great and the lack of building variety and research options make your turns feel very quick. But the number of units you end up juggling, how slow they move and the lack of stacking makes things feel sluggish. Once the map gets full and you’re watching dozens of enemy units fight every turn, things feel downright slow. It degrades the “one more turn” compulsion to the point where you’ll feel considerable impatience.

Settings to the rescue; jack up the animation speed as high as it will go and things become so brisk that there’s virtually no waiting. That’s when the game especially feels like Panzer General or a lavish Civ scenario. Aside from a couple of quick building decisions it’s just troop movement, healing, using powers and shifting your lines so the AI fights other AI whenever possible. I enjoyed my second game more than the first and there’s still a ton to learn and optimize better when I go a 3rd time.


Like most of these games, the AI does quite well on the strategic layer but falters when matching tactical wits against a human.
No Flavor
Sci-Fi themed 4Xs typically fall short in the flavor department. There’s something cold and uninspiring about digital versions of space. But terrestrial ones shouldn’t suffer from that problem so it’s quite disappointing that a 40K game, a property exploding with over the top drama and flavor, has such an empty presentation. Things look nice enough, you can zoom in close and enjoy the many weapon effects and details. But the absence of any voice acting and the units’ durability make everything seem unheroic. There’s no impact, no horror of war, no national drama; just a huge variety of sci-fi units slugging it out back and forth over an uncaring landscape.


Each faction has a storyline to follow in quests but it’s just plain text and not particularly impactful.
Even a city loss – a dramatic moment of sadness in Civ games – produces only cold detachment; no more upsetting than the sum of its numbers. I felt no affection for my hero units, even the ones that survived from inception and were instrumental in dozens of conflicts. They grow and gain power and change but they’re just little counters on a map. I wish they aspired to be more. Combined with the tiny number of factions (four) and it makes me unexcited about playing again despite enjoying myself.

The tech-tree suffers from the same problem. The choices are all impactful and there’s actually a ton to research. You only need to research two techs from each tier before opening up the next. Being used to Civ techs, where later ones can often be game changers, I tunneled straight towards the final tier as fast as I could. It’s another reason I lost my first game. A misunderstanding of the game’s subtlety left my industrial complex inadequate in the late game. There are lots of important choices to make and the factions are noticeably different tactically, but it’s presented so flat and lifeless that it never rises above a good, pure strategy game.


The tech tree is much more complete than it seems, and quite different faction to faction.
Multiplayer
I suspect a lot of the streamlining and design decisions were made to facilitate multiplayer gaming. Something which is particularly challenging with 4X games taking hours to finish. I was actually eager to give it a go. I’ve never played a multiplayer 4X and this seemed just fast enough to finish a small map in an evening. And while there were 30-40 matches being played, all the open lobbies were reserved for friends. So despite their efforts I’m not sure it’s feasible alone. But if you have some like minded warmongers this seems like a more rational choice than a Civ marathon.

Should you buy it?
If you like turn based war games, this is a competent outing. Unit variety is great, there’s a ton of progression and the factions play out differently enough to almost, but not quite, excuse the limited number. But if you only like 4Xs for the building and complex simulation, Gladius comes up short. I definitely enjoyed my time with it and I’d come back for another game during the next Steam drought. But it’s not memorable or vivid nor suited to roleplaying even on a national level.

Warhammer 40,000: Gladius - Relics of War
Score - 75%
75%
Competent
While it has all the features to technically be called a 4X, playing it feels a lot more like playing a long, lavish, traditional turn based wargame. Measured thusly it's quite good with oodles of tactical choices to make.

User Rating: 3.95 ( 1 votes)

 

[thesheeep]

User Rating: 3.95 ( 1 votes)

What kind of average is THAT?

 

[Galdred]

User Rating: 3.95 ( 1 votes)

What kind of average is THAT?

Their scoring system is pixel perfect!

 

[mwnn85]

It really feels like it needs more features should it hope to ever match the greatness of Civ 4 or Age of Wonders, etc.
I haven't really bothered with Civ 6 after the panning it got around here.

Whereas those two games encourage expansion, this game (regardless of faction chosen) likes to pin you in the early game due to the powerful wildlife units (robots, enslavers and catachan devils)
You really need your factions equivalent of heavy weapon teams + sentinels to clean those out.
Healing is quite slow unless your unit is inside a city/outpost tile.

Likewise thanks to the way the economy and rather primitive research trees work you'll be stuck with one city until you can unlock the required unit + building which is a few levels down the tech tree (i.e. techpriests + labour camps)
That's assuming your faction is even allowed to build more cities.
So every game starts off rather samey...

City wise it's basically one building for each unit type i.e. infantry, vehicles, heroes, builders, etc.
The other building types exist mainly to confer bonuses or gather resources i.e. food, ore, energy, loyalty, influence.
Each tile can have 2 or 3 buildings placed on it before you have to expand into other tiles by spending ore + influence (or the faction equivalent)
The larger a city grows the more rebellious it gets leading to wasted resources.
Every unit you build has an upkeep cost.

Whilst every faction more or less gets the same type of units, I do quite like the combat.
Forests and ruins provided ranged cover and/or ambushing. Line of sight also plays a part.
The game encourages healing and leveling up units which makes them a lot stronger - especially Guardsmen with frag grenades.
If you lose your army you've basically lost the game.
The relics you fight over are basic health, regeneration bonuses =\

I probably wouldn't recommend having quests or the DLC unit enabled.
Overall it's not terrible; as far as civ clones are concerned it's probably not quite as good as Warlock MoTA.
It'd say it resembles Warlock 2 mixed with elements of Panzer General/Corps.
There's a distinct lack of gore and funny death animations for a WH40K game.

 

[ricolikesrice]

-"turtling" is really ineffective and contraproductive because it limits your ressources (which are very slim early game) - whereas exploring will reward you with a couple of outposts = free ressources to build up your cities (and therefore military/research) much faster.

-"turtling until you have HWTs and Sentinels" is even more ineffective and contraproductive because while HWTs are great units and sentinels become eventually great too ........their strenght is certainly NOT vs wildlife. a couple of guardsmen with a commissar are faster to get, less expensive and a lot more effective at dealing with most wildlife threaths other than kastelan robots (and against kastelan robots HTWs and sents are even worse than massed guardsmen ).

....and you dont have to win every engagement: if you see 3 kastelan robots .... retreat and scout in another direction. unless you are very unlucky or stupid about it, you wont lose a unit during retreat.

-All factions except for space marines can build multiple cities .... and for Space Marines despite being limited to one city ... exploration is just as vital if not even more so than for other factions. If you dont place Fortresses of Redemption near outposts whenever you can you are really playing the game wrong ....


I d recommend taking a 2nd or 3rd look at Gladius combat mechanics: they are a lot deeper than those in Civ or Warlock or Endless Legend etc. but from your observation/suggestions i doesnt sound like you understood them very well.

-Number of "models" in a unit for example plays a large role both for damage output of units as well as for tanking capabilities which is pretty rare in these type of games. tanking is not only about hitpoints and armor but also how many units vs how many weapons, so lightly armored horde units can actually be better tanks vs certain units/weapons than heavily armored single verhicles/heroes.
-Weapons are more than just range, damage & armor penetration. there s special traits like "rapid fire", "blast" etc. which make some weapons really usefull in some situations but useless in others.
-proper use of special abilities is also vital to being good at the game

Once you get a better grip at the combat model, you can also enjoy the early game which imho is a big strenght of Gladius over other remotely similar titles where i often feel like i m watching paint try / hammering the end turn button while clicking myself through building & research trees that look more "indepth" than gladius ..... but in reality arent.

 

[Galdred]

I agree, I like the focus on combat features. It is a change that makes a lot of sense for a 40K game.
However, I think the game would really benefit from a larger roster. There are exactly zero ground transport vehicle for the Space Marines, and there is no anti infantry heavy weapon squads among all factions iirc (I mean, things like Heavy Bolters, or Plasma guns, not Elite Infantry like Terminators).
The lack of transport also makes Space Marines a "slow" faction if you don't go with an all tank force (but going all tank is perfectly reasonable anyway). Orks are the only one with early transport options.
But I agree that its base combat is very good.
One of the advantages of the focus on combat is that there is much less down time in MP, but the simultaneous turns + overwatch leads to some weird results. Actually, it is one of the rare 4X that I would look forward to play again in MP (I found that civ 5 MP was torture. Even MOO2 was way too slow in MP for me).

 

[mwnn85]

I never claimed that I couldn't kill anything at all or that I didn't capture outposts / explore the map! :D
I don't tend to lose any units either as the AI wildlife doesn't generally leave it's small patrol area.
I know captured outposts can be linked to a city tile directly (or with a fortress) to get the percentage bonus.
I'm aware of the differences between the factions i.e. Necrons can only build on tomb sites, Space Marines one city, etc, etc.

I just find you have to be very cautious with the starting 3 guardsmen squads as they struggle to kill anything other than kroot hounds (even they can be dangerous in numbers if they reach melee range)
It's not until you get a commissar, frag/krak grenades, medkits and hwt's or sentinels that you can really start to take on the bigger enemies and other factions with confidence (20-30+ turns in?)
The commisars bring it down skill can be quite powerful at stripping armor although it only lasts a turn.
I thought he was useless in melee against robots, orks, necrons and catachan devils

In the last game against 4 AI, I didn't bother using him at all.
I just went with the 3 guardsmen squads + 3 quest given ones + two sentinels and several heavy weapon teams until I got a few leman russ tanks produced.
Didn't even get any anti-air or basilisks.

The early game seems a bit slow and the game somewhat repetitive overall.
I haven't seen the AI do any brilliant maneuvers.
In the tech tree I tend to pick the same two techs each time and beeline to the next tier.
Every faction looks to have similar common unit types all be it with some stat differences.
The interesting units don't get unlocked until 100 turns or so have passed by which time I've usually killed an AI opponent.
Just have a look at the wiki. We're not exactly drowning in unit variety between the factions.

I do like the game for the most part but it needs more content and some extra mechanics.
The user feedback on the DLC unit and Quest system is dire - why didn't they spend the effort elsewhere?
I don't like the way that you have to spend all of a units movement points in one action.
I haven't seen the AI use any flying units to cross water.
Plus there's no naval units =\

I imagine the game can be a lot better against a competent human opponent.

 

[ricolikesrice]

I agree, I like the focus on combat features. It is a change that makes a lot of sense for a 40K game.
However, I think the game would really benefit from a larger roster. There are exactly zero ground transport vehicle for the Space Marines, and there is no anti infantry heavy weapon squads among all factions iirc (I mean, things like Heavy Bolters, or Plasma guns, not Elite Infantry like Terminators).

I m not 100% sure if thats what you mean but if you are looking for a fast infantry horde killer for space marines perhaps take a look at bike squads:

3 x twin-linked bolt guns are 6 attacks (rapid fire at range1) for 1.5 dmg with 10 accuracy
3 x shotgun are 6 attacks at range 1 for 1.5 dmg with 8 accuracy

thats 12 attacks for 1.5 each with a really good accuracy and on top of it for extra dangerous enemies you can use the blades of wrath cooldown for a further damage buff.

mind you the above is "theorycrafting" because i m currently playing mostly Astra Militarum and its been a while i played SM and bikes in particular but i do remember bikes being quite good at close range vs horde-units - if i m getting the numbers wrong correct me.


As far as more unit variety, abilities etc. in general are concerned - of course i d be the last person against it ! but so far the game has vastly more unit variety, techs, upgrades, abilities and a far more active early game than other 4x WHEN IT COMES TO WARFARE.
so much in fact that i personally have trouble understanding the constant comparisions with CIV (makes the least sense), Endless or even Warlock which MAY (debatable) have more content in other areas (trade, diplomacy, yada, number of buildings) but when it comes to combat
those games VS gladius are like night and day. if you think Gladius small tech tree is shit, what the fuck is endless space/legends or civs military branch of the tech tree good for in comparision ?

Turn 50 in gladius i m usually knee-deep in 12-15 units (made up of 5-6+ different unit types ) of mine vs the enemies ~15-20 units (made up of 5-6+ different unit types as well ), each side trading blow for blow, bolt for bolt, retreating and advancing until someone can break trough,
such an engagement taking usually 10+ turns* . Turn 50 in CIV a bunch of swordsmen and archers decide to attack the enemies swordsmen and archers and 5 turns later the "big war" is over.... and i m supposed to take people serious who claim Gladius has no unit variety and a slow early game ? Nope, thats not the game i m playing ....

*of course a lot of that may depend on map/difficulty settings like in any 4x, maybe gladius is indeed a borefest if you play on a map with tons of water, put the AI on easy and turtle.

 

[Galdred]

I agree, I like the focus on combat features. It is a change that makes a lot of sense for a 40K game.
However, I think the game would really benefit from a larger roster. There are exactly zero ground transport vehicle for the Space Marines, and there is no anti infantry heavy weapon squads among all factions iirc (I mean, things like Heavy Bolters, or Plasma guns, not Elite Infantry like Terminators).

I m not 100% sure if thats what you mean but if you are looking for a fast infantry horde killer for space marines perhaps take a look at bike squads:

3 x twin-linked bolt guns are 6 attacks (rapid fire at range1) for 1.5 dmg with 10 accuracy
3 x shotgun are 6 attacks at range 1 for 1.5 dmg with 8 accuracy

thats 12 attacks for 1.5 each with a really good accuracy and on top of it for extra dangerous enemies you can use the blades of wrath cooldown for a further damage buff.

mind you the above is "theorycrafting" because i m currently playing mostly Astra Militarum and its been a while i played SM and bikes in particular but i do remember bikes being quite good at close range vs horde-units - if i m getting the numbers wrong correct me.

But bikes are more like scout/glasscannons. They don't have the staying power or range of devastator squads. That is why I lamented the lack of heavy weapon anti infantry.

As far as more unit variety, abilities etc. in general are concerned - of course i d be the last person against it ! but so far the game has vastly more unit variety, techs, upgrades, abilities and a far more active early game than other 4x WHEN IT COMES TO WARFARE.
so much in fact that i personally have trouble understanding the constant comparisions with CIV (makes the least sense), Endless or even Warlock which MAY (debatable) have more content in other areas (trade, diplomacy, yada, number of buildings) but when it comes to combat
those games VS gladius are like night and day. if you think Gladius small tech tree is shit, what the fuck is endless space/legends or civs military branch of the tech tree good for in comparision ?

Turn 50 in gladius i m usually knee-deep in 12-15 units (made up of 7+ different unit types ) of mine vs the enemies ~15-20 units (made up for 7+ different unit types as well ), each side trading blow for blow, bolt for bolt, retreating and advancing until someone can break trough,
such an engagement taking usually 10+ turns* . Turn 50 in CIV a bunch of swordsmen and archers decide to attack the enemies swordsmen and archers and 5 turns later the "big war" is over.... and i m supposed to take people serious who claim Gladius has no unit variety and a slow early game ? Nope, thats not the game i m playing ....

*of course a lot of that may depend on map/difficulty settings like in any 4x, maybe gladius is indeed a borefest if you play on a map with tons of water, put the AI on easy and turtle.

With all of its spell/level up perks, I'd say that Warlock would have a bit more variety, or is at least comparable. That said, the AI doesn't really buff unit in Warlock. Gladius certainly does not have a slow early game indeed. Actually, the game has a good pace for the whole length. It was torture during beta when the animation speed was set to slow, though, but currently, it would be among the only 4X I would look forward to play in MP. How is the population in MP btw? My main problem with Gladius is that I ended up using the same set of units and technologies in every single playthrough, wich was not the case in their previous game, Pandora, because of the randomized tech tree (Pandora also had custom units, but there was very little point in getting several different "chassis" on a given tier, so the unit variety ended up not being that great either).

 

[ricolikesrice]

if gladius were like Warlock you would have 5 different units for one guardsmen squad:

1. Basic Guardsmen
2. Advanced Guardsmen (Frag Grenades)
3. Really advanced guardsmen ( Frag & Krak Grenades )
4. Really advanced guardsmen with medkits as well
5. Really advanced guardsmen with medkits and more Damage

of course going that route Gladius could brag with 80 to 90 "different" units per faction on its wiki but i m not seeing actual variety in bloating unit numbers with direct upgrades.

Not saying that Warlock doesnt have variety (it does in many other ways, i.e. spells, the promotion system etc.) but warlock has the huge problem that the AI cannot play (as you already said) with the systems that makes it interesting for the player, so it gets stale very fast once you ve fooled around with all the many toys.

…..

My main problem with Gladius is that I ended up using the same set of units and technologies in every single playthrough

that wasnt the case for me so far - my 3 last Astra Militarum games were roughy like that around turn 60:

game 1: a commisar, some guardsmen, some heavy weapon squads, some Sentinels, a psyker

game 2: tank commander, 3 leman russ, 2 techpriest enginseers, lots of guardsmen but no heavy weapons squads or sentinels (apart from building one for the questchain),

game 3: 3 commisars, lots of guardsmen, 2 basiliks, 2 hydras, 1 techpriest enginseer, no tanks nor heavy weapon Squads or or sentinels (apart from building one for the questchain)

i cant make up which of the 3 was the "best" way, it all boils down to what you are fighting in the end, what ressources you have etc. - i certainly wouldnt mind seeing Hellhounds, Chimeras, Tempestus Scions, Heavy Weapon Teams with different weapons and many other 40k Units added to the roster though for a lot more replayability, but what is there for a start is good. lets hope the addons keep going in that direction.

 

[mwnn85]

I'd prioritize armor stripping units with a few guardsmen against heavy armor teams like Necrons and Space Marines.
Orks seemed quite squishy to me - mass infantry is probably viable there. A mix of everything generally works best.

I think it would be a big improvement to implement a Dawn of War (1) weapon upgrade system.
Make that change and you've immediately doubled the number of unit types and added variety without adding a lot of work with completely new unit types.

Guardmen with plasma pistols making them gain armor piercing but a reduced number of attacks or Guardmen with grenade launchers.
Space Marines with Heavy Bolters or Plasma.
HWT with autocannons or lascannons.
Likewise for vehicle units. Extra lascannons, bolters or flamers, etc.

A bit of specialization - making them weaker against certain unit types and stronger against others. Don't have to change the whole unit - just one or two models carrying the extra weapons.
Rework the tech tree to add some prerequisites - making it more like an actual tech tree aka example1.
Could turn out to be very special then.

It doesn't have to go overboard like Civ adding dark ages, culture, wonders, corporations, great people and lots of other things to manage.

 

[Galdred]

With 72h "played" during beta, there is little point for me to return to the game for the SP, so it might color my perception of replayability.
Did anyone try the MP?
I would get the game for MP, but I am not sure there is any MP scene at all. If someone is up for a codex game (with team, because FFA would degenerate into Sitzkrieg), count me in.

 

[Galdred]

With 72h "played" during beta, there is little point for me to return to the game for the SP, so it might color my perception of replayability.
Did anyone try the MP?
I would get the game for MP, but I am not sure there is any MP scene at all. If someone is up for a codex game (with team, because FFA would degenerate into Sitzkrieg), count me in.

Anyone up for 2v2 MP? I will get the game as soon as I am back from vacation in 10 days.