Incline Warhammer 40,000 Lore Thread

[Tyranicon]

Feel free to mention more recommendations.

It's probably impossible to not have been told about the Ciaphas Cain series by Sandy Mitchell if you've been interested in 40k for a while.

But I'll go ahead and re-affirm my opinion that he is my favorite 40k author, due to the fact that he captures some of the parody essence the setting has without being overly grimdark about everything.

 

[Caim]

So maybe I'm late to the party, but...

The Salamanders come from a volcanic land, where the people have dark skin, bright red eyes and when the Emperor showed up to pick up Vulkan they referred to him as "Outlander".

Salamanders are just really buff Dunmer.

 

[Blaggard]

I like the Salamanders (and space wolves) for the simple fact that they are some of the few chapters to actually have and care about their biological families.

 

[Louis_Cypher]

The way of explaining it best, in-universe, would be, that Chaos is simply not really about Chaos.

It seems that Chaos is a lie. False marketing. They are not even really Chaos-like in themselves.

This guy has a throne, implying rank and order. It would be more accurate to characterise them as four very powerful Christian-style demons, who have a coherent personal agenda, are constantly trying to trick people into bargains and pacts, or possess them like in 'The Exorcist' franchise. They don't really represent anti-life at all, just their own ideological agenda, for imposing upon life. It makes them more coherent and graspable. I'm not a fan of incoherent ideas. Chaos makes no sense to me when it goes on about incomprehensible motives. However, as soon as they are grounded in reality, even if 'Infernal' in scope like Sauron, they suddenly make sense, their followers make sense, etc. They become a Dark Lord. I find this with multiple franchises. Suddenly becoming coherent, when you throw out fan-held notions, and just use reason. When they are not 'infinite' or 'unknowable', or any other vague adjective, suddenly they are more interesting.

Thinking of the appeal of Chaos, which I often have trouble understanding, since it just seems obviously untrustworthy, designed to screw it's followers, I was reminded of something about Satan in "Paradise Lost":

Satan is a liberal, raging against the traditional moral order. A firebrand revolutionary. He frames his seduction of humanity, as setting people 'free'. He goes into the Garden of Eden and tempts Eve to eat the forbidden fruit, mainly on lines of 'liberation'. Though Lucifer may be at various times, depicted either as a cynical manipulator that wants humanity to fall, or a revolutionary firebrand giving grandiose speeches, it's often easy to forget that in "Paradise Lost" he is nominally a liberal who encourages people to not listen to their king or society or parents advice, but appeals to 'show me the peer reviewed study why I shouldn't' or 'why not?' It seems Chaos, probably, is also framed as libration, even if it's ultimately much more oppressive than the Imperium. Maybe obvious, but Tzeentch or Khorne or Slaanesh start with the notion of people making up their own minds, about what will liberate them, allow them to be individually free to express their intellect in any way they can.

As seen in Rogue Trader, Word Bearers, in their "long war" to create a Dark Imperium, act as the evangelists of this kind. Something like a Word Bearer would be equivalent of a demon of hell, preaching libertine sermons to a humanity that they intend to not really have freedom or power to any great degree.

 

[Mangoose]

The way of explaining it best, in-universe, would be, that Chaos is simply not really about Chaos.

It seems that Chaos is a lie. False marketing. They are not even really Chaos-like in themselves.

This guy has a throne, implying rank and order. It would be more accurate to characterise them as four very powerful Christian-style demons, who have a coherent personal agenda, are constantly trying to trick people into bargains and pacts, or possess them like in 'The Exorcist' franchise. They don't really represent anti-life at all, just their own ideological agenda, for imposing upon life. It makes them more coherent and graspable. I'm not a fan of incoherent ideas. Chaos makes no sense to me when it goes on about incomprehensible motives. However, as soon as they are grounded in reality, even if 'Infernal' in scope like Sauron, they suddenly make sense, their followers make sense, etc. They become a Dark Lord. I find this with multiple franchises. Suddenly becoming coherent, when you throw out fan-held notions, and just use reason. When they are not 'infinite' or 'unknowable', or any other vague adjective, suddenly they are more interesting.

Thinking of the appeal of Chaos, which I often have trouble understanding, since it just seems obviously untrustworthy, designed to screw it's followers, I was reminded of something about Satan in "Paradise Lost":

Satan is a liberal, raging against the traditional moral order. A firebrand revolutionary. He frames his seduction of humanity, as setting people 'free'. He goes into the Garden of Eden and tempts Eve to eat the forbidden fruit, mainly on lines of 'liberation'. Though Lucifer may be at various times, depicted either as a cynical manipulator that wants humanity to fall, or a revolutionary firebrand giving grandiose speeches, it's often easy to forget that in "Paradise Lost" he is nominally a liberal who encourages people to not listen to their king or society or parents advice, but appeals to 'show me the peer reviewed study why I shouldn't' or 'why not?' It seems Chaos, probably, is also framed as libration, even if it's ultimately much more oppressive than the Imperium. Maybe obvious, but Tzeentch or Khorne or Slaanesh start with the notion of people making up their own minds, about what will liberate them, allow them to be individually free to express their intellect in any way they can.

Your first reply - description of Chaos - basically perfect. The only real questions are whether there the gods have a "literal" motive, whether they are gods or non-sentient forces that manifest such personalities - but these aren't informative questions to answer. These latter things are just semantics. They're words.. But words are meaningless except for being pointers to definitions. You described their actually meaningful definitions/meanings, and that's what's important. And I again agree with your overall take.

---

On this reply on "why people turn to Chaos," IMO the gods do so not via true logic. They use complete guile and via emotional means.

Tzeentch to some may promise you things in a logical and benevolent manner, which lends you to think logically about Tzeentch... Except Tzeentch will completely 180deg betray. I mean look at Magnus. Magnus was logically convinced via dishonest logic from Tzeentch.

Then, for less autistic minds and thus more emotional plebeian minds - Tzeentch always is there to offer power. In other words, depending on the target, Tzeentch tailored his advertising method.

Faling to Khorne is like... something you fall into emotionally, rely on, etc. Not sure if that's clear. For some, perhaps like Star Wars Dark Side in that choosing violence over peace is expedient - that the ends justify the means.

Slaanesh.. Worshiping Slaanesh is literally the equivalent of worshiping the Cardinal Sins. In terms of their nagture of being over-excessive "normal feelings." And the only way Slaanesh can promote him/her/they/itself's philosophy is not with logic but with promises of pleasure.

Nurgle, based on the Death Guard because I dunno how else others turn to Nurgle... Mortarion followed logic.. that is, knowledge made of intentional LIES by Typhon.

If nothing else works, stab the guy with an athame and corrupt him from within his own psychology.

TLDR Chaos uses pathos, not logos or ethos. He will make logos/ethos-appeal... but for the sake of psychological/emotional manipulation.


Edit:

As seen in Rogue Trader, Word Bearers, in their "long war" to create a Dark Imperium, act as the evangelists of this kind. Something like a Word Bearer would be equivalent of a demon of hell, preaching libertine sermons to a humanity that they intend to not really have freedom or power to any great degree.

Just noticed this line and here again I completely agree.

 

[ERYFKRAD]

Nurgle, based on the Death Guard because I dunno how else others turn to Nurgle

He's got a very good health plan, with dental and everything.

 

[RaggleFraggle]

Chaos isn’t chaotic in the mathematical sense. They’re inspired by Chaos from the works of Michael Moorcock. The eight pointed star comes from his books.

Moorcock’s series also has Order. Order is represented with a single arrow.

Both are equally horrible, just in different ways

 

[Heroic Liberator]

They're all lame. Malice's where it's at (as far as Chaos is concerned).

We shall deny Nurgle their flesh to fester and rot.
We shall deny Khorne their blood and skulls.
We shall deny Tzeentch their destinies and fates.
We shall deny Slaanesh their pleasure and pain.
Death to the Dark Gods!
For the Renegade God!
Let the galaxy burn!

 

[Louis_Cypher]

I used to read 40K codeces when I was younger, just for the lore, since I didn't play at that point. Like a lot of people I had the 2nd Edition starter set, but no money, and nobody at school to play or learn with. So, like a lot of people I was a "lore enjoyer", perhaps painted the starter models for fun, well before reading the Black Library novels (they weren't yet a thing), or playing an actual game, or understanding the tabletop rules. Many people were in a similar situation, I gather, so were just into the painting/collecting side of the hobby, as a sizable but quiet minority I believe. Same goes for the D&D Monster Manual and Vampire: The Masquerade material; I used to read them for fun.

I've been slowly re-reading, cover-to-cover, many of the classic codeces to remind myself how/if the lore has changed. It's a kinda revision for 10th Edition, which I'm actually playing occasionally, to see how rules/unit stats/army lists have changed in the last 30 years. Actually not that much; Marneus Calgar and other characters were in lists right from the beginning for example, and their stats are pretty consistent.

As I read them, I might list which codeces are the best lore-wise, maybe rank them, maybe review them. You could consider this a small review of Codex: Necrons (3rd Edition)... As previously noted, 40K lore is actually very consistent across the entire 40 years, for the most part, barring say the differing objectives of the Necrons. However, even there, there was enough room for interpretation that the Imperium may have "misunderstood" the Necrons. Returning to Codex: Necrons (3rd Edition); this codex is a very strong one, just as I remembered, easily the best I've read out of around five codeces so far. Worth reading for lore enthusiasts if you never did.

I can't remember where else this was said, but at one point it suggests using fantasy Lizardmen to represent devolved "Old Ones" on some forgotten backwater planet for example (knew I had seen that somewhere). That is a matter of interest to lore afficionados. Warhammer 40,000 "Old Ones" are space Lizardmen confirmed again.

What was the original "final victory" of the Necrons? When they were still depicted as being controlled by the C'tan? In a total Necron victory, humanity survives. They become the cattle of the Necron Empire. Humanity's worlds become Tomb Worlds, full of monoliths and temple complexes. Silver Necron warriors herd them by the thousands into portals, so that their essence can feed their C'tan Star-Gods, for eternity. That was the prospect of a Necron galaxy, for contrast with the Tyranids and Chaos.

 

[Caim]

Hey remember that time where Games Workshop tried selling the entire Ultramarines chapter in one box?

Because I do.

 

[Louis_Cypher]

Hey remember that time where Games Workshop tried selling the entire Ultramarines chapter in one box?

Jeez... ...how long would that take to paint.

---

Sometimes it seems like any "bad guy" faction winning would mean extinction for mankind.

Actually, I dunno any more, reading Codex: Necrons (3rd Edition) closely. As long as they kept humanity alive as slaves, a C'tan/Necron-ruled galaxy was the least worst horrific victory, out of all the existential evil factions; the C'tan/Necrons, the Orks, the Tyranids and Chaos. Under the C'tan/Necrons most humans would survive as slaves or subjects to the C'tan Empire, live on a million Necron worlds, persisting for the rest of time, perhaps having some measure of a normal life, playing in the barren wind-swept streets as rag-clad helots under the eyes of their silver masters, before one's probable sacrifice, say age 30-50, in a batch of 100,000 victims being coralled by gauss rifles into a temple to the Star-Gods. C'tan would actually encourage humanity's survival as a species, as sacrifical slaves (unless they fucked up their maths, ate too much, killed everyone, then went to bed for 60 million years while more sentient food evolved).

Orks would presumably just reduce humanity down to roving Mad Max bands, like the Diggas on Gorkamorka, but most humans would die of collapsing infrastructure and lack of food. It would entail the death of most of humanity. Life would be a harsh battle for survival. Orks lack the motivation or studiousness to kill all of humanity. They just wreak shit; human civilization would end.

Perhaps Chaos is next "least worst", as stupid as that sounds? Some people believe a total Chaos victory, would just destroy reality, or break the barrier between reality and the Warp at least. Rape worlds with faces growing out of every surface kinda thing. However Chaos Space Marines specifically want to overthrow the God Emperor and remake the Imperium as a polytheist Dark Imperium. Take it at face value, that it wouldn't just devolve into murderfuck (destroying reality), and assume that institutions would keep it a functioning Chaos Space Marine empire with central government. Then it looks more like an extremely dark social Darwinist dystopia, where humanity survives, but a few people grow an extra leg or three, and betray their relatives for extra eyes on their elbow.

All the buildings would get more spikes, you would be taught to sacrifice puppies at school, be taught survival of the fittest from Chaos kindergarten, kill some classmates playing Blood Bowl in year 7, get randomly stabbed by a passing Chaos Space Marine visiting the supermarket, and a lucky 0.00001% would become Chaos Champions in the Premiere League for Tzeentch FC vs. Khorne United. Maybe.

The thing that makes Chaos hard to comprehend as appealing, is that possession means being a mere meat puppet, and complete Chaos reality-breakdown means either eternal body rape or incomprehensible caledaiscopic soul rape. That is where the motive breaks down, if Word Bearers say, actually know this is the outcome. To make Chaos more comprehensible, I now prefer to imagine that a Chaos Space Marine total victory, turns the galaxy into something like a stable Dark Imperium of Man, with Abaddon the Despoiler sitting at the top of a working civilizstion, as a Demon-God-Emperor.

Temples to the Chaos Gods are erected on every world, the galaxy kept in line by Chaos Space Marine legions. Humans are encouraged to become completely amoral, compete with each other to be champions of Chaos, but never go to the extreme of birthing some new Chaos god accidentally; the way religion often lies atop a society, but the majority just persist without exceptionally strong convictions. Survival of the fittest, absolute rule of the strong, but survival of human life in a Dark Imperium, somewhat like the Chaos route in Shin Megami Tensei: Strange Journey, where humanity is totally "liberated", but in practice the demons, the strong, dominate the weak, meaning worse tyranny as 99.999% of humanity is unlucky or weak.

This makes the Tyranid total victory arguably the worst, since it just entails complete annihilation of life itself, the galaxy stripped bare of even microbes. At least humanity survives in the Necron, Ork, or even Chaos scenario, with Chaos probably being the worst of the them by fa. Mass human sacrifice, forever, under a C'tan/Necron Empire, at least doesn't involve the anarchy and torture of a Chaos Imperium. You just live in eternal poverty, able to somewhat live life, under your Necron lords, until the day of your sacrificial murder.

 

[Caim]

Hey remember that time where Games Workshop tried selling the entire Ultramarines chapter in one box?

Jeez... ...how long would that take to paint.

The full box includes:

1 box of Marneus Calgar and Honour Guard;
1 Chief Librarian Tigurius;
1 Chaplain Cassius;
1 Space Marine Captain in Terminator Armour;
1 Space Marine Terminator Chaplain;
1 Captain Sicarius;
1 box of Space Marine Masters of the Chapter;
1 Space Marine Captain: Lord Executioner;
1 Space Marine Captain: Master of the Marches;
1 Space Marine Captain: Master of the Rites;
1 Space Marine Captain: Master of Relics;
3 Space Marine Command Squads;
2 Space Marine Librarians;
1 Space Marine Librarian in Terminator Armour;
1 Space Marine Librarian with staff & book;
1 Space Marine Librarian with Force Sword and Bolt Pistol;
1 Space Marine Librarian with Force Axe and Plasma Pistol;
3 Space Marine Chaplains with Crozius and Power Fist;
3 Space Marine Chaplains with skull helmet;
1 Space Marine Chaplain with Crozius and Bolt Pistol;
1 Space Marine Chaplain with Crozius and Plasma Pistol;
1 Space Marine Chaplain with Jump Pack;
8 Space Marine Terminator Squads;
4 Space Marine Terminator Close Combat Squads;
4 Space Marine Vanguard Veteran Squads;
4 Space Marine Sternguard Veteran Squads;
39 Space Marine Tactical Squads;
47 Space Marine Rhinos;
4 Space Marine Drop Pods;
14 Space Marine Assault Squads;
14 Space Marine Devastator Squads;
12 Space Marine Centurion Devastator Squads;
4 Space Marine Razorbacks;
2 Space Marine Techmarines;
4 Space Marine Thunderfire Cannons;
7 Space Marine Dreadnoughts;
5 Space Marine Ironclad Dreadnoughts;
1 Space Marine Sergeant Chronus;
7 Space Marine Land Raiders;
3 Space Marine Land Raider Crusader/Redeemers;
7 Space Marine Stalker/Hunters;
2 Space Marine Vindicators;
5 Space Marine Predators;
3 Space Marine Whirlwinds;
3 Stormraven Gunships;
7 Space Marine Stormtalon Gunships;
13 Space Marine Bike Squads;
1 Space Marine Bike;
5 Space Marine Attack Bikes;
11 Space Marine Land Speeders;
1 Space Marine Sergeant Telion;
10 boxes of Space Marine Scouts;
4 boxes of Space Marine Scouts with Sniper Rifles;
5 Space Marine Land Speeder Storms;
6 Space Marine Strikeforces.

But at the time you can spend 12k on the minis a box of Ultramarines the paint cost should not be an issue.

The time however...

 

[lightbane]

Perhaps Chaos is next "least worst", as stupid as that sounds? Some people believe a total Chaos victory, would just destroy reality, or break the barrier between reality and the Warp at least. Rape worlds with faces growing out of every surface kinda thing. However Chaos Space Marines specifically want to overthrow the God Emperor and remake the Imperium as a polytheist Dark Imperium. Take it at face value, that it wouldn't just devolve into murderfuck (destroying reality), and assume that institutions would keep it a functioning Chaos Space Marine empire with central government. Then it looks more like an extremely dark social Darwinist dystopia, where humanity survives, but a few people grow an extra leg or three, and betray their relatives for extra eyes on their elbow.

Chaos is literally brain-melting. It's not supposed to make sense.

All the buildings would get more spikes, you would be taught to sacrifice puppies at school, be taught survival of the fittest from Chaos kindergarten, kill some classmates playing Blood Bowl in year 7, get randomly stabbed by a passing Chaos Space Marine visiting the supermarket, and a lucky 0.00001% would become Chaos Champions in the Premiere League for Tzeentch FC vs. Khorne United. Maybe.

That would inevitably collapse at some point, since no-one would care about the babies. Nevermind having Slaaneshi worshippers as part of society. Humanity as a copy of Dark Eldar wouldn't work IMO unless they mutated enough to survive such process. And the scientists were miraculously left untouched, kind of.

The thing that makes Chaos hard to comprehend as appealing, is that possession means being a mere meat puppet, and complete Chaos reality-breakdown means either eternal body rape or incomprehensible caledaiscopic soul rape. That is where the motive breaks down, if Word Bearers say, actually know this is the outcome. To make Chaos more comprehensible, I now prefer to imagine that a Chaos Space Marine total victory, turns the galaxy into something like a stable Dark Imperium of Man, with Abaddon the Despoiler sitting at the top of a working civilizstion, as a Demon-God-Emperor.

It's meant to be a lie IMO. Those who preach about Chaos come pre-deluded, and those who aren't, too late they realize what they have gotten themselves into. Both will be soul-raped for eternity by the chaos god of their choice. Unless they give up their humanity and become literal monsters.

 

[Mangoose]

The only "concrete" thing I know* about the Warp is that it reflects sentient emotional conflict.

In other words, Chaos needs living beings, for it needs them interacting in a certain way. It needs them in a STATE of UNending warfare.

Thus:

Forget the promise of progress and understanding, for in the grim darkness of the far future there is only war. There is no peace amongst the stars, only an eternity of carnage and slaughter, and the laughter of thirsting gods."

The Horus Heresy was a win for Chaos because those for the Emprah wanted to extinguish his enemies, and those against the Emprah wanted to extinguish the Emprah.

Instead, they managed to "extinguish" the Emprah as a consciousness while still maintaining the Emprah as a symbol to rally for warfare (for or against).

*Meaning I could very well be wrong.

 

[Louis_Cypher]

Just some random musings... Coming back to what factions could be added to 40K (just theorycraft, because maybe too many wouldn't be a good thing, or would dilute, or degrade the game, in some way), what if the overall picture looked something like this:

"Good" guys:

• Imperium of Man (Space Marines, Imperial Guard, Sisters of Battle, Adeptus Mechanicus, etc)
• Craftworld Eldar
• Eldar Exodites
• Eldar Harlequins
• Squat Leagues
• T'au Empire
• Old One Remnants *New*
• Kroot Nomadic Tribes *New*

Bad guys:

• Ork Empires
• Dark Eldar Kabals
• Eldar Corsairs
• Necron Dynasties
• Tyranid Hive Fleets
• Chaos Space Marine Empires (Chaos Space Marines, Traitor Guardsmen, Dark Mechanicum, etc)
• Chaos Daemons
• Hrud Hordes *New*

So, that adds three xenos factions. Primative Old One remnants based on Lizardmen, with some kind of reason to be fighting the good fight? Kroot Tribes just out to survive. Hrud Infestation based on Skaven. You could do Dark Mechanicum. You could do Chaos Squats, just to mirror Chaos Dwarfs. Maybe give Eldar Exodites a miniature range, on their xenos mounts. (In an ideal world where GW just had infinite capacity to make anything, and it wouldn't unbalance the game). It's just that some of these factions don't perhaps have a very strong identity, i.e. I don't care about the Kroot really, I'm just adding them for the sake of it, because they are fleshed out xenos.

Good:

• Space Marines (good reason to fight Orks, Necrons, Tyranids, Chaos)
• Eldar (good reason to fight Orks, Necrons, Tyranids, Chaos)
• Squats (good reason to fight Orks, Necrons, Tyranids, Chaos)

Evil:

• Orks (good reason to fight anything)
• Necrons (good reason to fight anything)
• Tyranids (good reason to fight anything)
• Chaos Space Marines (good reason to fight the good guys)

Also I don't know that everyone has a strong reason to fight each other - I always figured Necrons, Tyranids and Orks are great factions to own, because they have a strong identity, plus strong lore reason to fight basically everything - Space Marines, Eldar and Squats have good reason to fight evil, even if not each other as much - six solid faction choices that can pair against almost everyone/everything fluff wise. I'm less certain an opportunistic bunch of slavers like the Dark Eldar have any reason to get involved with unprofitable battles against Necrons, lets say. You would have to make the Hrud have some strong lore reason to wage open warfare on others.

 

[Mangoose]

Hm... I prefer the mental image of everyone fighting everyone...

Because there's so much that one does not ally because one cannot trust.

So, sure the Imperium and Eldar are on the same side. But they can't trust each other. They just can't. Nobody in the setting can because everyone wants to survive.

That's part of the absurdity I like. In the real world that would be dumb but in 40k the setting is so extreme that to avoid diplomacy may be the moral action.

 

[Louis_Cypher]

BTW, say that xenos are pre-warp, limited to one planet, they aren't exactly a threat to the Imperium on a wide scale. There are LOTS of xenos species in 40K, so which xenos species are capable of star travel, have independently developed it, or stolen it successfully? Quite a lot, probably, but some examples of FTL capable species (presumed alive as of M42):

Humans / Abhumans:

Orkoids:

Eldar:

T'au:

Necrons:

Tyranids:

Kroot:

Hrud:

Jokaero:

Slann:

Arachen:

Argonite:

Barghesi:

Draxians:

Fra'al:

Haruspex:

Khrave:

Nekulli:

Nicassar:

Noisome Reek:

Noctal:

Q'orl:

Rak'Gol:

Stryxis:

Tarellians:

Thexian:

Varsine:

Warhammer 40,000's galaxy seems to be almost as inhabited as the likes of Star Trek and Star Wars. In spite of how the Imperium is "only" a million worlds, out of 400,000,000,000 stars, I do sometimes wonder how smaller empires like the Thexian Trade Empire, survive. Those million worlds are spread over a huge territory, and you would imagine Sector Battlefleets could easily run into other species. Despite rhetoric, xenos are probably tolerated, as long as they are civilized.

Interestingly, the Kroot ate Ork Mekboys that crashed on their homeworld Pech in an Ork Rok. This is how they developed FTL. Although the Hrud have some kind of strange FTL capability of their own, allowing them to "walk" through the warp, something like a portal, I understand that they often migrate aboard other race's cargo ships. Some of the above species, such as the Khrave, have a longer history than the Eldar, and might know thing about the galaxy's deepest history.

 

[Mangoose]

Interestingly, to develop their Warsphere, the Kroot ate Ork Mekboys that crashed on their homeworld Pech, who were piloting an Ork Rok. From that genetic knowledge, they aquired starfaring capability, building their warp-capable starships, the Warspheres. So they developed FTL capability independently of the T'au, with whom some portion of Kroot are of course aligned. Although the Hrud have some kind of strange FTL capability of their own, allowing them to "walk" through the warp, I understand that they often migrate aboard other race's cargo ships.

LOL your first sentence here sounded like a dumb generic idea.. but the following sentence that acknowledges they steal Ork genetic knowledge definitely makes up for it.

Fucking Orks are hilarious.

And also one of the reasons why factions won't ally - You're constantly besieged by Orks and Tyranids so by instinctual mindset the pragmatic assumption another species has a high risk of being a secret threat...*

Not to mention probably having been betrayed by species that act benevolent and such like the Eldar. Or ones that frame the Eldar like the Dark Eldar... which btw is an example of another faction that causes mistrust.

*And yet so many fans love them they will never go away. We need this mistrust, otherwise 40k becomes not 40k. It becomes an uninteresting clownworld, when it's supposed to be an escape from IRL bullshit clownworld.

 

[RaggleFraggle]

*And yet so many fans love them they will never go away. We need this mistrust, otherwise 40k becomes not 40k. It becomes an uninteresting clownworld, when it's supposed to be an escape from IRL bullshit clownworld.

This is precisely why I’ve gotten fed up with the RTS genre. After Blizz popularized the plot outline, now every RTS story is about genocidal bitter enemies becoming best friends in five minutes flat and teaming up against another genocidal enemy… but they don’t get to be friends because plot. It’s overused, it’s hypocritical, and it even has elitist evangelists.

 

[Storyfag]

I had a sublime thought regarding the reports of Commissar Yarrick's death.

What do you does the Ecclesiarchy call a pious Imperial servant that returns from the dead?

 

[ERYFKRAD]

I had a sublime thought regarding the reports of Commissar Yarrick's death.

What do you does the Ecclesiarchy call a pious Imperial servant that returns from the dead?

Probably a saint

 

[Louis_Cypher]

Saint Sebastian Yarrick of Armageddon?

 

[ERYFKRAD]

Saint Sebastian Yarrick of Armageddon?

That's Comissar Saint Sebastian Yarrick

 

[Blaggard]

BTW, say that xenos are pre-warp, limited to one planet, they aren't exactly a threat to the Imperium on a wide scale. There are LOTS of xenos species in 40K, so which xenos species are capable of star travel, have independently developed it, or stolen it successfully? Quite a lot, probably, but some examples of FTL capable species (presumed alive as of M42):

Humans / Abhumans:

Orkoids:

Eldar:

T'au:

Necrons:

Tyranids:

Kroot:

Hrud:

Jokaero:

Slann:

Arachen:

Argonite:

Barghesi:

Draxians:

Fra'al:

Haruspex:

Khrave:

Nekulli:

Nicassar:

Noisome Reek:

Noctal:

Q'orl:

Rak'Gol:

Stryxis:

Tarellians:

Thexian:

Varsine:

Warhammer 40,000's galaxy seems to be almost as inhabited as the likes of Star Trek and Star Wars. In spite of how the Imperium is "only" a million worlds, out of 400,000,000,000 stars, I do sometimes wonder how smaller empires like the Thexian Trade Empire, survive. Those million worlds are spread over a huge territory, and you would imagine Sector Battlefleets could easily run into other species. Despite rhetoric, xenos are probably tolerated, as long as they are civilized.

Interestingly, the Kroot ate Ork Mekboys that crashed on their homeworld Pech in an Ork Rok. This is how they developed FTL. Although the Hrud have some kind of strange FTL capability of their own, allowing them to "walk" through the warp, something like a portal, I understand that they often migrate aboard other race's cargo ships. Some of the above species, such as the Khrave, have a longer history than the Eldar, and might know thing about the galaxy's deepest history.

The Hurd don't use ships, they have some alternative means for seemingly teleporting to different planets along their migration paths.

The Khrave have things called "snare-ships", and the Stryxis don't make their own ships, they are the traveling junk salesmen of the galaxy, and you'll typically find them with dozens of different species ships chained together and traveling in a convoy. Interestingly they do have unique "ghost-light" ship energy weapons which only kill living creatures leaving the mechanical parts and structure of enemy ships intact.

The Kroot lore is all over the place, some lore says they got their FTL from eating Orcs, other lore says they used to be an advanced civilization but had given it up to remain primitive and planet-bound before the Tau discovered them.

 

[Parsimonious cook]

Hrud actually use human ships to some extend. The Xenology book (it contained autopsy reports on several xenos spiecies and some back stories on them) mentioned that they sometimes live on the abbandoned decks and such and basicaly move around as stowaways.