Warhammer Warhammer 40,000: Rogue Trader Pre-Release Thread [GAME RELEASED, GO TO NEW THREAD]

[Galdred]

Focusing on marines was a mistake imo.
They make up less than 1% of the Imperium's population, but receive most of the attention and marketing.
The Imperial Guard should have been the focus. You know, actual humans instead of boring ubermensch with daddy issues.

Fantasy, for it's flaws, did try to spread the love around a little with factions instead of muh asstardes.

Fortunately, I don't see a single Space Marine in the player's party so far, so that's promising I guess. From what I read in this thread the only marine so far has been a chaos marine who was basically a mini-boss, and that's how they should be; extremely rare, but very dangerous encounters. Instead of 15 point per model cannon fodder that deploys on mass on a planet that's just begging to get wiped out with a well placed nuke.

SM are not even 0.1% , there is only like few million of them in the million worlds spanning Imeprium.

Yeah, it's something ridiculously small, and yet they show up everywhere. It's kind of silly, especially when they are supposed to operate in small, rapid strike squads yet are often portrayed in engaging in mass battles with thousands of marines fighting at once.
Because that can't possibly go wrong. /s

The setting seems a lot less grimdark and dangerous when a massive army of marines with apparently unlimited recruits and supplies can just teleport out of nowhere and beat an enemy while receiving no significant casualties, which would otherwise impair such repeated mass deployments.

Actually, their low numbers don't make sense either:
Having a huge capital ship ferry a dozen space marines (or even a company) feels like a huge waste of resources. They need to have a Matt Ward level of plot armor to achieve anything with such small numbers.
The fact that the Ultramarine chapter is supposed to control a vast amount of space (500 heavily populated worlds), with the total number of Space Marines equivalent to a single regiment of today makes them glorified administrators donning a fancy armor in a few occasions.

You would probably end up with less than 1 Space Marine for 1 Billion inhabitant or something like that (like 1-3 millions total marines for the Imperium, which spans millions of inhabited planets).
As a comparison, that's quite a few orders of magnitude less than your usual commando force, which are not even supposed to spearhead heavy assault (because Space Marines or not, drop podding on a planet should end up with a high casulaty count), or even regarding 40K numbers, that would be 10 Space Marines for 1 titan or so.

So Space Marines need to have much higher number, or be considered militarily irrelevant, or they need to have much higher numbers.
Actually, they make more sense as RPG protagonists than a useful military force.

Well Emperor conquered Earth with like 500 Thunder Warriors and they are even weaker than classic SM, not to mention Primaris SM.

Which is totally impossible to replicate in the tabletop, as they'll get trounced by 5.000 of whatever army you choose to play against them.
Edit: The only way to make it would would be to have these 500 be leveraged by playing one factions against another, conquistador/colonial style.

 

[CthuluIsSpy]

Focusing on marines was a mistake imo.
They make up less than 1% of the Imperium's population, but receive most of the attention and marketing.
The Imperial Guard should have been the focus. You know, actual humans instead of boring ubermensch with daddy issues.

Fantasy, for it's flaws, did try to spread the love around a little with factions instead of muh asstardes.

Fortunately, I don't see a single Space Marine in the player's party so far, so that's promising I guess. From what I read in this thread the only marine so far has been a chaos marine who was basically a mini-boss, and that's how they should be; extremely rare, but very dangerous encounters. Instead of 15 point per model cannon fodder that deploys on mass on a planet that's just begging to get wiped out with a well placed nuke.

SM are not even 0.1% , there is only like few million of them in the million worlds spanning Imeprium.

Yeah, it's something ridiculously small, and yet they show up everywhere. It's kind of silly, especially when they are supposed to operate in small, rapid strike squads yet are often portrayed in engaging in mass battles with thousands of marines fighting at once.
Because that can't possibly go wrong. /s

The setting seems a lot less grimdark and dangerous when a massive army of marines with apparently unlimited recruits and supplies can just teleport out of nowhere and beat an enemy while receiving no significant casualties, which would otherwise impair such repeated mass deployments.

Actually, their low numbers don't make sense either:
Having a huge capital ship ferry a dozen space marines (or even a company) feels like a huge waste of resources. They need to have a Matt Ward level of plot armor to achieve anything with such small numbers.
The fact that the Ultramarine chapter is supposed to control a vast amount of space (500 heavily populated worlds), with the total number of Space Marines equivalent to a single regiment of today makes them glorified administrators donning a fancy armor in a few occasions.

You would probably end up with less than 1 Space Marine for 1 Billion inhabitant or something like that (like 1-3 millions total marines for the Imperium, which spans millions of inhabited planets).
As a comparison, that's quite a few orders of magnitude less than your usual commando force, which are not even supposed to spearhead heavy assault (because Space Marines or not, drop podding on a planet should end up with a high casulaty count), or even regarding 40K numbers, that would be 10 Space Marines for 1 titan or so.

So Space Marines need to have much higher number, or be considered militarily irrelevant, or they need to have much higher numbers.
Actually, they make more sense as RPG protagonists than a useful military force.

Well Emperor conquered Earth with like 500 Thunder Warriors and they are even weaker than classic SM, not to mention Primaris SM.

That's even worse, unless they had a lot of support from unaugmented forces.
I'd understand it if marines were used a force multiplier (like tanks) and backed up by mortal forces, but the way GW portrays them is just silly and marvel-esque wankery.

 

[Storyfag]

The fact that the Ultramarine chapter is supposed to control a vast amount of space (500 heavily populated worlds), with the total number of Space Marines equivalent to a single regiment of today makes them glorified administrators donning a fancy armor in a few occasions.

Technically, the 500 worlds have their own Planetary Defense Forces and administration. Just a few UltraSmurfs run only the highest echelons of the administration.

 

[Storyfag]

Focusing on marines was a mistake imo.
They make up less than 1% of the Imperium's population, but receive most of the attention and marketing.
The Imperial Guard should have been the focus. You know, actual humans instead of boring ubermensch with daddy issues.

Fantasy, for it's flaws, did try to spread the love around a little with factions instead of muh asstardes.

Fortunately, I don't see a single Space Marine in the player's party so far, so that's promising I guess. From what I read in this thread the only marine so far has been a chaos marine who was basically a mini-boss, and that's how they should be; extremely rare, but very dangerous encounters. Instead of 15 point per model cannon fodder that deploys on mass on a planet that's just begging to get wiped out with a well placed nuke.

SM are not even 0.1% , there is only like few million of them in the million worlds spanning Imeprium.

Yeah, it's something ridiculously small, and yet they show up everywhere. It's kind of silly, especially when they are supposed to operate in small, rapid strike squads yet are often portrayed in engaging in mass battles with thousands of marines fighting at once.
Because that can't possibly go wrong. /s

The setting seems a lot less grimdark and dangerous when a massive army of marines with apparently unlimited recruits and supplies can just teleport out of nowhere and beat an enemy while receiving no significant casualties, which would otherwise impair such repeated mass deployments.

Actually, their low numbers don't make sense either:
Having a huge capital ship ferry a dozen space marines (or even a company) feels like a huge waste of resources. They need to have a Matt Ward level of plot armor to achieve anything with such small numbers.
The fact that the Ultramarine chapter is supposed to control a vast amount of space (500 heavily populated worlds), with the total number of Space Marines equivalent to a single regiment of today makes them glorified administrators donning a fancy armor in a few occasions.

You would probably end up with less than 1 Space Marine for 1 Billion inhabitant or something like that (like 1-3 millions total marines for the Imperium, which spans millions of inhabited planets).
As a comparison, that's quite a few orders of magnitude less than your usual commando force, which are not even supposed to spearhead heavy assault (because Space Marines or not, drop podding on a planet should end up with a high casulaty count), or even regarding 40K numbers, that would be 10 Space Marines for 1 titan or so.

So Space Marines need to have much higher number, or be considered militarily irrelevant, or they need to have much higher numbers.
Actually, they make more sense as RPG protagonists than a useful military force.

Well Emperor conquered Earth with like 500 Thunder Warriors and they are even weaker than classic SM, not to mention Primaris SM.

And atomics. Don't forget the atomics.

 

[razvedchiki]

Focusing on marines was a mistake imo.
They make up less than 1% of the Imperium's population, but receive most of the attention and marketing.
The Imperial Guard should have been the focus. You know, actual humans instead of boring ubermensch with daddy issues.

Fantasy, for it's flaws, did try to spread the love around a little with factions instead of muh asstardes.

Fortunately, I don't see a single Space Marine in the player's party so far, so that's promising I guess. From what I read in this thread the only marine so far has been a chaos marine who was basically a mini-boss, and that's how they should be; extremely rare, but very dangerous encounters. Instead of 15 point per model cannon fodder that deploys on mass on a planet that's just begging to get wiped out with a well placed nuke.

SM are not even 0.1% , there is only like few million of them in the million worlds spanning Imeprium.

Yeah, it's something ridiculously small, and yet they show up everywhere. It's kind of silly, especially when they are supposed to operate in small, rapid strike squads yet are often portrayed in engaging in mass battles with thousands of marines fighting at once.
Because that can't possibly go wrong. /s

The setting seems a lot less grimdark and dangerous when a massive army of marines with apparently unlimited recruits and supplies can just teleport out of nowhere and beat an enemy while receiving no significant casualties, which would otherwise impair such repeated mass deployments.

Actually, their low numbers don't make sense either:
Having a huge capital ship ferry a dozen space marines (or even a company) feels like a huge waste of resources. They need to have a Matt Ward level of plot armor to achieve anything with such small numbers.
The fact that the Ultramarine chapter is supposed to control a vast amount of space (500 heavily populated worlds), with the total number of Space Marines equivalent to a single regiment of today makes them glorified administrators donning a fancy armor in a few occasions.

You would probably end up with less than 1 Space Marine for 1 Billion inhabitant or something like that (like 1-3 millions total marines for the Imperium, which spans millions of inhabited planets).
As a comparison, that's quite a few orders of magnitude less than your usual commando force, which are not even supposed to spearhead heavy assault (because Space Marines or not, drop podding on a planet should end up with a high casulaty count), or even regarding 40K numbers, that would be 10 Space Marines for 1 titan or so.

So Space Marines need to have much higher number, or be considered militarily irrelevant, or they need to have much higher numbers.
Actually, they make more sense as RPG protagonists than a useful military force.

the whole 40k doesnt make any sense as with every fantasy setting, in the grim derpness of 40k they have ion cannons and teleportation tech but they still fight..... in trenches and fix bayonets

 

[Storyfag]

I'd understand it if marines were used a force multiplier (like tanks) and backed up by mortal forces, but the way GW portrays them is just silly and marvel-esque wankery.

TBH, the lore regarding the largest/most pivotal battles usually does mention a combined arms approach featuring the many, MANY branches of the Imperial military.

 

[Tyranicon]

40k is literally just rule of cool. Logic doesn't matter as long as it's cool enough.

Honestly, trying to inject logic into 40k is why nu-lore is less interesting.

 

[ArchAngel]

Focusing on marines was a mistake imo.
They make up less than 1% of the Imperium's population, but receive most of the attention and marketing.
The Imperial Guard should have been the focus. You know, actual humans instead of boring ubermensch with daddy issues.

Fantasy, for it's flaws, did try to spread the love around a little with factions instead of muh asstardes.

Fortunately, I don't see a single Space Marine in the player's party so far, so that's promising I guess. From what I read in this thread the only marine so far has been a chaos marine who was basically a mini-boss, and that's how they should be; extremely rare, but very dangerous encounters. Instead of 15 point per model cannon fodder that deploys on mass on a planet that's just begging to get wiped out with a well placed nuke.

SM are not even 0.1% , there is only like few million of them in the million worlds spanning Imeprium.

Yeah, it's something ridiculously small, and yet they show up everywhere. It's kind of silly, especially when they are supposed to operate in small, rapid strike squads yet are often portrayed in engaging in mass battles with thousands of marines fighting at once.
Because that can't possibly go wrong. /s

The setting seems a lot less grimdark and dangerous when a massive army of marines with apparently unlimited recruits and supplies can just teleport out of nowhere and beat an enemy while receiving no significant casualties, which would otherwise impair such repeated mass deployments.

Actually, their low numbers don't make sense either:
Having a huge capital ship ferry a dozen space marines (or even a company) feels like a huge waste of resources. They need to have a Matt Ward level of plot armor to achieve anything with such small numbers.
The fact that the Ultramarine chapter is supposed to control a vast amount of space (500 heavily populated worlds), with the total number of Space Marines equivalent to a single regiment of today makes them glorified administrators donning a fancy armor in a few occasions.

You would probably end up with less than 1 Space Marine for 1 Billion inhabitant or something like that (like 1-3 millions total marines for the Imperium, which spans millions of inhabited planets).
As a comparison, that's quite a few orders of magnitude less than your usual commando force, which are not even supposed to spearhead heavy assault (because Space Marines or not, drop podding on a planet should end up with a high casulaty count), or even regarding 40K numbers, that would be 10 Space Marines for 1 titan or so.

So Space Marines need to have much higher number, or be considered militarily irrelevant, or they need to have much higher numbers.
Actually, they make more sense as RPG protagonists than a useful military force.

the whole 40k doesnt make any sense as with every fantasy setting, in the grim derpness of 40k they have ion cannons and teleportation tech but they still fight..... in trenches and fix bayonets

During WWII Russians had tanks and machine guns but they still sent 5 guys to attack and share one of those guns and few bullets. IoM have the same problem, they cannot mass produce enough of that advanced tech to equip all their soldiers with it. TAU can but they only control couple of hundred worlds and they are not being attacked by everyone on all sides.

 

[Harthwain]

the whole 40k doesnt make any sense as with every fantasy setting, in the grim derpness of 40k they have ion cannons and teleportation tech but they still fight..... in trenches and fix bayonets

It makes sense if you consider the Imperium to be an amalgam that can't be equally equipped with top-tech equipment. When the need is larger than the supply, you have to throw in everything you have, even if this means using bayonets.

40k is literally just rule of cool. Logic doesn't matter as long as it's cool enough.

Honestly, trying to inject logic into 40k is why nu-lore is less interesting.

There is some logic to it. Like, how preservation of the ancient tech was so important (and why it was so limited), because the ability how to make it was lost at some point. Even if you do have the knowledge, it doesn't mean you have the ability (in terms of time, resources or capacity) to make full use of it. Imperium's problems are also logistical in nature. In fact, I'd argue that logistic is the biggest issue of them all, since it wastes a lot of resources that could've been put to good use. And it doesn't stop there: you also have corruption and incompetence to boot.

During WWII Russians had tanks and machine guns but they still sent 5 guys to attack and share one of those guns and few bullets.

They also used WW1 artillery (the equipment that remembered the days of the tsars), too. But this is true for any prolonged conflict where there are losses and every new recruit/formation needs a weapon to get started.

 

[razvedchiki]

During WWII Russians had tanks and machine guns but they still sent 5 guys to attack and share one of those guns and few bullets

maybe you shouldnt consider films as historical sources.

 

[NecroLord]

40k is literally just rule of cool. Logic doesn't matter as long as it's cool enough.

Honestly, trying to inject logic into 40k is why nu-lore is less interesting.

Rule of cool, but also excess.
Excessive violence. Excessive grimness. Excessive, over the top weaponry.
Excessive pauldrons!

 

[Storyfag]

40k is literally just rule of cool. Logic doesn't matter as long as it's cool enough.

Honestly, trying to inject logic into 40k is why nu-lore is less interesting.

Rule of cool, but also excess.
Excessive violence. Excessive grimness. Excessive, over the top weaponry.
Excessive pauldrons!

All that Excess must really turn the Prince of Pleasure, She Who Thirsts, on.

 

[Galdred]

Funnily, Games Workshop cannot give them stats that would approach some Black Library power fantasies, because they cannot sell minis if their most popular armies only requires 5 characters to play.

One use that could make sense with such small numbers would be propaganda tools:
Space Marines would be used to storm lightly defended positions with huge media coverage, to give some hope to the citizens of the Imperium.

 

[Mauman]

Fortunately, I don't see a single Space Marine in the player's party so far, so that's promising I guess.

Pretty darn sure a Space Wolf is a (at least potential) party member.

Unless something changed while I wasn't looking.

 

[lightbane]

Ultramarines are the vanilla good guys, almost bordering on what passes for wholesome in 40k.

.. while murdering xenos children (like Eldar one).

Yeah, well. In 40k a "crime against humanity" is one *not* murdering the enemy civilians.

This is probably why people like Tau, they do not murder civilians if they decide to join "The Greater Good". Not awesome but still better than just getting wiped just because.

Except when they neuter people, or some unlucky sod ends up being the lunch of a passing Krot.

Is it explained why are only Humans so weak to Chaos?

They're... Not really? Barring untrained psykers who are more vulnerable.
The average joe will live a normal life and his emotions won't do shit all to feed the chaos gods, unless he goes over-the-top such as joining drug-fueled mass orgy parties non-stop, or eat large banquets of food in a decadent manner.
Of course, said average joe will instantly crumble if the Chaos Gods use him for some insidious plot, or he's exposed to raw chaos stuff such as being close to a Warp portal, but that's a reasonable thing to happen due his lack of plot armor.

And should not Warp and Chaos have access to more than one galaxy?

Supposedly they can control time, or exist in the past and present simultaneously, for what's worth.

So, to sum things up, is it safe to say that immaterium is made of emotions etc of various peoples of the Milky Way and if Tyranids destroy Humans, Eldar and other races here, the Chaos as we know it would cease to exist?

I'm not very good at wh40k lore (I know basic things).

Killing everything and/or resetting or sealing the Warp would indeed weaken the Gods. The latter is one of the Necrons' main objective, and wiping out all life was one of the plots of the HH books orchestrated by totes-not the Old Ones in disguise.

 

[Peachcurl]

Is it explained why are only Humans so weak to Chaos?

They're... Not really? Barring untrained psykers who are more vulnerable.

Yeah, plus Humans have psychic Blanks. Pretty good tool against chaos.

 

[jml]

The fact that the Ultramarine chapter is supposed to control a vast amount of space (500 heavily populated worlds), with the total number of Space Marines equivalent to a single regiment of today makes them glorified administrators donning a fancy armor in a few occasions.

Ultramarines didn't control all of 500 hundred worlds. Some were controlled by their successors chapters. In Dark Imperium: Plague Wars Guilliman laments that he allowed 500 hundred worlds collapse as a political entity after Horus Heresy. Stating that it was due to his Ego. He wanted Ultramarines be out there in the World outside of Ultramar but single chapter could not do that and protect whole Ultramar. So he left only about dozen planets under control of Ultramarines.

He changes this during Plague Wars restoring 500 hundred worlds but he assigns other chapters besides Ultramarines to defend it.

 

[Peachcurl]

The fact that the Ultramarine chapter is supposed to control a vast amount of space (500 heavily populated worlds), with the total number of Space Marines equivalent to a single regiment of today makes them glorified administrators donning a fancy armor in a few occasions.

Ultramarines didn't control all of 500 hundred worlds. Some were controlled by their successors chapters.

Not sure this is explicitely stated anywhere, but I guess most of the 500 worlds are actually not directly controlled by any Space Marine chapter for that time period before RG restoration.

 

[jml]

The fact that the Ultramarine chapter is supposed to control a vast amount of space (500 heavily populated worlds), with the total number of Space Marines equivalent to a single regiment of today makes them glorified administrators donning a fancy armor in a few occasions.

Ultramarines didn't control all of 500 hundred worlds. Some were controlled by their successors chapters.

Not sure this is explicitely stated anywhere, but I guess most of the 500 worlds are actually not directly controlled by any Space Marine chapter for that time period before RG restoration.

In Dark Imperium many representatives of 500 hundred worlds were quite unhappy when they heard of Guillimans plans since they had been independent thousands of years.

 

[Tyranicon]

Not sure this is explicitely stated anywhere, but I guess most of the 500 worlds are actually not directly controlled by any Space Marine chapter for that time period before RG restoration.

My assumption is that Space Marine Chapters have a large administrative wing to manage the actual day-to-day running of their space fiefdoms. After all, plenty of space marine worlds have large populations, complete with their own planetary defense forces.

 

[Cryomancer]

Wizards in WHF are divided in 8 colleges/winds. How psykers works in WH40k?

 

[CthuluIsSpy]

Wizards in WHF are divided in 8 colleges/winds. How psykers works in WH40k?

There isn't a college of magic like in WHFB, but there are disciplines of psionics that psykers can specialize in / have an affinity for.
I don't remember all of them from the top of my head because I don't collect imperials (and there's only really two Imperial factions who have access to psionics anyway, Imperial Guard and Marines), but I do know biomancy and telepathy are a couple of them.
Of course, Chaos and xenos have their own brand of psychic powers, and some space marine chapters have their own special snowflake powers too. Such as Space Wolves, who have the psychic discipline of being in denial that they use psychic powers.

 

[Trithne]

If you use FFG's games as the baseline, there's:

* Biomancy
* Divination
* Pyromancy
* Telepathy
* Telekinesis

DH2 also later added the Sanctic and Malefic disciplines, centred around warpstuff.

If you follow a chaos god, they add their own disciplines.

Then different xenos have different things too. Psychic powers in 40k are a very mixed bag.

 

[Cryomancer]

Interesting. No cryomancy or shadowmancy?

What about weapons? Gaus rifles? laser weapons? weird radiation grenades?

 

[CthuluIsSpy]

Interesting. No cryomancy or shadowmancy?

What about weapons? Gaus rifles? laser weapons? weird radiation grenades?

Yes, all of that.
Gauss Weapons are a Necron thing. They tear their target apart molecule by molecule. The Imperium does not have them.

Laser weapons are very common in the Imperium and rad grenades are a piece of equipment they have access to but it's more common to the Ad Mech. Plasma weapons aren't as common as lasers but they still show up, often in the hands of marines.

The thing about the Imperium's tech level is that it's incredibly varied. Due to the Imperium being built on the corpse of a previous great human civilization, they have bits and pieces of incredibly advanced tech coupled with cruder equipment. It is very likely for them to field both laser cannons and more conventional projectile weapons.
If you want an idea of what the Imperium can field at it's peak, have a look at the Ad Mech arsenal. They are probably the most "advanced" faction in the Imperium. They have cyborgs, lightning guns, gravity guns, guns that shoot radioactive bullets, coilguns, all sorts of stuff.

Railguns are more of a Tau thing. They tend to mount them on their tanks and mechs, and their snipers use a smaller version.
Tau pulse weapons are implied to use rail gun tech too, albeit to a much weaker degree. They can still propel a projectile so fast that it decays into plasma though.

Orks tend to use projectile weapons, but they do have access to crude direct energy weapons and more exotic armaments. Such a gun that telefrags you with goblins.

Tyranid weapons are all organic. As you can imagine, they'll use claws and acid sprays, but also organisms that are genetically engineered to be bullets, which are driven to burrow their way to their target's vital organs.