Warhammer Warhammer 40,000: Rogue Trader Pre-Release Thread [GAME RELEASED, GO TO NEW THREAD]

[Peachcurl]

I would enjoy only 1 difficulty setting. And that difficulty setting should be challenging by virtue of AI, without relying on gimmicks. Let the player discover gimmicks and cheese.

Let idiots get filtered. Let casuals die in the flames of Mt. Doom. And may stat bloaters drown in a river of fire and piss.

Fever dreams of a broke game dev.

 

[Joyvankek]

Is Owlcat considered AAA now?

I hope not.
Every game that's considered AAA, it's pretty looking garbage.
Well maybe not pretty if ME:Andromeda is anything to go by.
Now that I think of it I don't remember the last time we had good AAA game.
Every series I used to enjoy decade ago is in decline.

Forgive me, I forgot most Codexer's are retards and there is no point in asking half of them.

You realise every time new rpg comes we ask the same thing, devs provide same replies and it all leads to same result?

Bunch of ex Nivals making their third game probably arent idiots, they made some decent fights in Wrath. Its just that AAA pipeline isnt compatible with strong RPG fundamentals. Half of a playerbase doesnt care about if its even rpg or not plays for shit giggles story. 90% dont even finish the game.
What we love in rpgs is often a labour of fine tuned lovingly crafted custom content. Popping every flower to be collected every item to have a story etc. Styg or other indie dev can sit there for years doing that, since it is also easier to do on simplier framework. But big studio cant. They are on timer, they cant put everyone for 5 years on to craft perfect codexers DM experience, they need to ship this mf and also do lots of petty shit like cutscenes and vo and its cutthroat business, nobody needs just a good rpg, they need something bombastic to get attention.

So there will be good encounters early, maybe some peak ones midgame, then a slog as devs try to hastily throw on you something to fill endgame and wrap everything up. Considering it is also new system and they been making d20 for years I d also expect some major hiccups until first addon.

Hopefully the last act won't feel rushed like the act 5 in Wrathfinder.
With the rest, we can only hope we will get a proper RPG, in spite of the streamline approach we see in big budged projects.

 

[ItsChon]

Bro, it's you who are having a hard time with concepts of tactical challenge.

What if instead istead of "mindlessly adding more archers" they would mindfully add one basic-ass shieldguard to protect the archer?
Or even place than one lonsome archer on a hard to reach balcony instead of ground floor?
But your proposition is to break out the super-speshul-trap-laying-arch3r early.

Using higher level or special mobs certainly have their place in making the encounters harder, but it's not the only and not even the best solution.

My point is I assume that all encounters will already have this shit on normal. Why would encounters like this be reserved for just hard mode, when this should be the default encounter design for normal mode? What I am suggesting is a tool to supplement encounter design on higher difficulties, versus something that should be used to just replace all the other options. Also, this "super-speshul-trap-laying-arch3r" you mention isn't actually special despite your attempts at trying to take away from my credibility by making my suggestion seem dumb. In this example, that archer would be an enemy that you see later on in the game. All I'm saying is that by introducing it earlier in the game on higher difficulties, you will automatically change how certain fights play out, and that is without even having to touch modifiers such as health and damage. I'm sure you can imagine a scenario in which doing this would lead to a better, more interesting encounter than just adding extra mobs or tweaking more modifiers, can't you?

You realise every time new rpg comes we ask the same thing, devs provide same replies and it all leads to same result?

Bunch of ex Nivals making their third game probably arent idiots, they made some decent fights in Wrath. Its just that AAA pipeline isnt compatible with strong RPG fundamentals. Half of a playerbase doesnt care about if its even rpg or not plays for shit giggles story. 90% dont even finish the game.
What we love in rpgs is often a labour of fine tuned lovingly crafted custom content. Popping every flower to be collected every item to have a story etc. Styg or other indie dev can sit there for years doing that, since it is also easier to do on simplier framework. But big studio cant. They are on timer, they cant put everyone for 5 years on to craft perfect codexers DM experience, they need to ship this mf and also do lots of petty shit like cutscenes and vo and its cutthroat business, nobody needs just a good rpg, they need something bombastic to get attention.

So there will be good encounters early, maybe some peak ones midgame, then a slog as devs try to hastily throw on you something to fill endgame and wrap everything up. Considering it is also new system and they been making d20 for years I d also expect some major hiccups until first addon.

Fair enough, but this is also why I haven't suggested anything until now. I am realistic about the types of changes and feedbacks that developers can reasonably implement, which is why I think my suggestion is actually a good one. They already have the assets for the character done, and it already exists in the game just at a later stage. My whole point is the concept of moving a stronger enemy that requires additional tactics/strategy to deal with versus the more normal mobs, into certain encounters on higher difficulty that perhaps they wouldn't normally be in on a lower difficulty, is that it is something easy to implement without having to do too much extra shit. Also, these stronger enemies that I am mentioning often tend to make encounters much more tactical than just adding more enemies.

 

[Reinhardt]

If I where a psyker in wh40k universe, I would walk around with huge neon sign "dress wearer rights are hooman rights! come and get me, dumb inquisition!"

you don't say

 

[Reinhardt]

In this example, that archer would be an enemy that you see later on in the game.

and later in the game in regular encounters on hard he will be replaced by what? final boss?

 

[ItsChon]

In this example, that archer would be an enemy that you see later on in the game.

and later in the game in regular encounters on hard he will be replaced by what? final boss?

I already answered this question you bot.

Ok but what are they supposed to add later in the game instead of those "death stalkers"? At one point you run into a wall.

Later on in the game they will have access to all the different enemy types with all their abilities, so they won't have to do what I outlined above to keep encounters complex and interesting and difficult, they can just use the enemies they would normally use. In general, late game is far more complex than the early game due to how many more resources are available, both to the player and their enemies. The trouble is making the beginning interesting enough to replay at a higher difficulty, and also making the beginning authentically difficult by requiring more complex strategies to be used, versus just making all the enemies stronger.

 

[Reinhardt]

so they will just spam hordes of enemies we already saw so many times from the beginning of the game? GENIUS DESIGN!

 

[EvilWolf]

In this example, that archer would be an enemy that you see later on in the game.

and later in the game in regular encounters on hard he will be replaced by what? final boss?

It's almost like you never played Doom. How can a concept so basic as difficulty gated enemy pools be so difficult for you to fathom?

 

[Shadenuat]

Is Owlcat considered AAA now?

A special custom A with low ru pay and Cyprus taxation evasion.

 

[Reinhardt]

In this example, that archer would be an enemy that you see later on in the game.

and later in the game in regular encounters on hard he will be replaced by what? final boss?

It's almost like you never played Doom. How can a concept so basic as difficulty gated enemy pools be so difficult for you to fathom?

i've played wotr tho. and introducing "super improved deadly babau butcher enforcer" just to keep things "fresh" and players busy is retarded. you really think game would be better if you started encounter them in drezen instead of abyss?

 

[EvilWolf]

In this example, that archer would be an enemy that you see later on in the game.

and later in the game in regular encounters on hard he will be replaced by what? final boss?

It's almost like you never played Doom. How can a concept so basic as difficulty gated enemy pools be so difficult for you to fathom?

i've played wotr tho. and introducing "super improved deadly babau butcher enforcer" just to keep things "fresh" and players busy is retarded. you really think game would be better if you started encounter them in drezen instead of abyss?

You're the only one talking about "super improved deadly babau butcher enforcer" we're talking about basic enemies you encounter later in the game on normal difficulty showing up earlier on higher difficulty. All it does in practice is introduce enemies with better equipment and abilities earlier in the game to force you to adapt when you aren't as prepared as you would normally be.

 

[ItsChon]

Thank you for articulating my thoughts clearly and concisely. Of course, it's entire possible that the way they have encounters planned, there won't be much of a difference in the basic enemies you encounter early in the game versus the enemies you encounter later in the game, but the suggestion of enemy pools gated by difficulty is a good one regardless I think, and it should be something that is part of every RPG developers toolkit when making higher difficulties.

 

[Reinhardt]

In this example, that archer would be an enemy that you see later on in the game.

and later in the game in regular encounters on hard he will be replaced by what? final boss?

It's almost like you never played Doom. How can a concept so basic as difficulty gated enemy pools be so difficult for you to fathom?

i've played wotr tho. and introducing "super improved deadly babau butcher enforcer" just to keep things "fresh" and players busy is retarded. you really think game would be better if you started encounter them in drezen instead of abyss?

You're the only one talking about "super improved deadly babau butcher enforcer" we're talking about basic enemies you encounter later in the game on normal difficulty showing up earlier on higher difficulty. All it does in practice is introduce enemies with better equipment and abilities earlier in the game to force you to adapt when you aren't as prepared as you would normally be.

yeah. and later in the game when you don't need to adapt anymore? you killed them many times already, after few initial surprise attacks they are no longer a threat, why game keeps throwing them at you?
instead of dumb random encounters with low level gobbos you want dumb random encounters with dragons. it's still dumb random encounters, just longer.

why bother with gobbos btw? why not make every enemy a dragon?

oh, and btw "super improved deadly babau butcher enforcer" IS basic enemy from later in the game. because just "improved deadly babau butcher enforcer" is soooo previous chapter and not stronk enough to bother players anymore.

 

[Shadenuat]

Later you meet exbosses as regular mooks in pairs like in Jrpgs

 

[Shadenuat]

The problem of changing encounter structure with difficulty is that you dont want to just make them more difficult, you want to make them more interesting.
But then why not have a more interesting encounter at designers best to begin with, and why weaker player should play a less interesting encounter? A better encounter might make them want to be better players.
Also, we want to all that make some sense in the world, like in AoD a more difficult fight is often a consequence of your roleplaying, not part of some gamy difficulty slider system.

Thats why i think all this difficulty customisation is studio wrapping paper made to caretake for morons, Id rather RPG have one difficulty from one vision with potential for those bad at combat avoid it through choices and charbuilding.

 

[Reinhardt]

The problem of changing encounter structure with difficulty is that you

need to do loot and exp progression all over again.
if you fight peasants with broken shovels in early game and SUDDENLY one of them is a knight in full plate with magic 2h sword you may struggle a bit, but after killing him you just skip first half of the game entirely because everyone gained 2 levels and your best fighter got at least mid-game equip. so next peasant horde is just boring slaughter and next knights is just more free full plates and 2h swords. basically instead of "hard" you made it easier than easy after first bump.
and if knight drops rusty shovel and worth 10 exp like regular peasant then it's even dumber.

 

[Cryomancer]

A special custom A with low ru pay and Cyprus taxation evasion.

Nomad Capitalist approves.

I hate psykers cuz a biomancer made me a tranny and did tentacle experiments on me

You don't say

Later you meet exbosses as regular mooks in pairs like in Jrpgs

LOL.

Imagine if this game follow the same bloat of WoTR. A random encounter with 6 Lords of change and 3 Nurgle's Great Unclean ones and one of the Lord of change is not only a lord of change. Is a mythic epic ultra super duper masterform destruction Lord of Change.

one of them is a knight in full plate with magic 2h sword you may struggle a bit, but after killing him you just skip first half of the game entirely because everyone gained 2 levels and your best fighter got at least mid-game equip.

Don't give so much power to random peasants. Simple, instead of the full plate knight, add more traps and a bunch of peasants who throws poisoned spears.

See how UnderRail did higher difficulty.

 

[Shadenuat]

The problem of changing encounter structure with difficulty is that you

need to do loot and exp progression all over again.
if you fight peasants with broken shovels in early game and SUDDENLY one of them is a knight in full plate with magic 2h sword you may struggle a bit, but after killing him you just skip first half of the game entirely because everyone gained 2 levels and your best fighter got at least mid-game equip. so next peasant horde is just boring slaughter and next knights is just more free full plates and 2h swords. basically instead of "hard" you made it easier than easy after first bump.

Not necessarily, idk what RT xp system is, but you can just get xp on per encounter basis (sawyered banalce)
Then difference would be maybe some unique loot piece thats all

 

[Reinhardt]

You don't say

you should read some more about warhammer. regular psyker is not some pew-pew master, it's disposable tortured creature with his mouth and eyes sewn shut wallowing in his own shit and used to counter enemy psykers on the battlefield. IF YOU ARE LUCKY.

 

[Shadenuat]

A special custom A with low ru pay and Cyprus taxation evasion.

Nomad Capitalist approves.

I hate psykers cuz a biomancer made me a tranny and did tentacle experiments on me

You don't say

Later you meet exbosses as regular mooks in pairs like in Jrpgs

LOL.

Imagine if this game follow the same bloat of WoTR. A random encounter with 6 Lords of change and 3 Nurgle's Great Unclean ones and one of the Lord of change is not only a lord of change. Is a mythic epic ultra super duper masterform destruction Lord of Change.

one of them is a knight in full plate with magic 2h sword you may struggle a bit, but after killing him you just skip first half of the game entirely because everyone gained 2 levels and your best fighter got at least mid-game equip.

Don't give so much power to random peasants. Simple, instead of the full plate knight, add more traps and a

Well from alpha 15 lvl party of act2 or so of the game considers one mauler fiend (basically 120-150 points of standard 2k army) a boss encounter. Party has access to thunderhammers plasmagus, 2 psykers
I dont think cats are going to mess this shit up too badly

I already dont like how they did eldar tho. Go some planet talk some noble visit some tent recruit eldar ranger. Its less dramatic than recruitng viconia in any bgs. There should be mysterious build up to this shit

 

[NecroLord]

 

[InD_ImaginE]

Weirdboyz >>> hooman psykers

 

[Reinhardt]

reminded me how one japanese student wished for lots of sex and cool mecha. after faithful encounter with truck-kun he wakes as servitor chained to one of the big guns in warlord-class titan and later was raped to death by boarding slaanesh cultists.

 

[Reinhardt]

There should be mysterious build up to this shit

you see spehs elf - you shoot spehs elf. many mysterious.

 

[Cryomancer]

you should read some more about warhammer. regular psyker is not some pew-pew master, it's disposable tortured creature with his mouth and eyes sewn shut wallowing in his own shit and used to counter enemy psykers on the battlefield. IF YOU ARE LUCKY.

I know that most psykers end up being tormented by daemons in the warp, or sacrificed and losing everything, including his soul to maintain the astronomican working. And even in the rare case when a psyker pass all trials nad is sanctioned he will be under the watch of the inquisition. And any attempt to "innovate" and experiment with his powers will be considered heresy and severely punished if not, the risk of becoming a daemonic portal is too high. But is not the entirety of the WH verse which is bad to be a psyker. Prospero pre Horus heresy was friendly towards psykers. In 40k, the unique planet friendly to casters that I know is Sortiarius which is almost like hell in material form.

WH40k is the worst setting to be a """caster""".

Party has access to thunderhammers plasmagus, 2 psykers

And Bolters?