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Warhammer Warhammer 40,000: Rogue Trader Pre-Release Thread [GAME RELEASED, GO TO NEW THREAD]

ArchAngel

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Is anyone here even playing RT tabletop?
 

Jaedar

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Project: Eternity Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 Pathfinder: Kingmaker
RT tabletop players are surely not happy with this.
I legit didn't heard a single person complaning about the changes..
Because fans of rt/dh just aren't that invested in the mechanics compared to getting the lore/setting correct.

I've played the TT. It has a fine ruleset. It's not terrible, but it's also not great. But I also kinda doubt it would feel fun in a crpg. RT also had really boring classes, so it's good they reworked that.

I am upset that they seem to have nerfed the downside of psykers so hard though. Is it really a psyker if every spell cast isn't risking a tpk?
 

Rhobar121

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Joined
Sep 22, 2022
Messages
1,250
RT tabletop players are surely not happy with this.
I legit didn't heard a single person complaning about the changes..
Because fans of rt/dh just aren't that invested in the mechanics compared to getting the lore/setting correct.

I've played the TT. It has a fine ruleset. It's not terrible, but it's also not great. But I also kinda doubt it would feel fun in a crpg. RT also had really boring classes, so it's good they reworked that.

I am upset that they seem to have nerfed the downside of psykers so hard though. Is it really a psyker if every spell cast isn't risking a tpk?
Probably no one (almost no one) wants to play russian roulette for over 100 hours.
If every time you used a skill you had a chance to die randomly (no matter if you summoned a bunch of demons or just exploded), it would end by simply pressing F8.
Owlcat's impaired fight design is definitely enough, there's no point in adding more pain to it.
This type of gameplay is unpleasant for most sane people.
 

Jaedar

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Project: Eternity Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 Pathfinder: Kingmaker
RT tabletop players are surely not happy with this.
I legit didn't heard a single person complaning about the changes..
Because fans of rt/dh just aren't that invested in the mechanics compared to getting the lore/setting correct.

I've played the TT. It has a fine ruleset. It's not terrible, but it's also not great. But I also kinda doubt it would feel fun in a crpg. RT also had really boring classes, so it's good they reworked that.

I am upset that they seem to have nerfed the downside of psykers so hard though. Is it really a psyker if every spell cast isn't risking a tpk?
Probably no one (almost no one) wants to play russian roulette for over 100 hours.
If every time you used a skill you had a chance to die randomly (no matter if you summoned a bunch of demons or just exploded), it would end by simply pressing F8.
Owlcat's impaired fight design is definitely enough, there's no point in adding more pain to it.
This type of gameplay is unpleasant for most sane people.
Probably true, it works better in TT where you can't quickload. But even if you remove some of the tpks, the effects are fun!
But the fact that all psykers are walking time bombs is what made them balanced and is what justifies the dislike the general public feels towards them.
 

Rhobar121

Scholar
Joined
Sep 22, 2022
Messages
1,250
RT tabletop players are surely not happy with this.
I legit didn't heard a single person complaning about the changes..
Because fans of rt/dh just aren't that invested in the mechanics compared to getting the lore/setting correct.

I've played the TT. It has a fine ruleset. It's not terrible, but it's also not great. But I also kinda doubt it would feel fun in a crpg. RT also had really boring classes, so it's good they reworked that.

I am upset that they seem to have nerfed the downside of psykers so hard though. Is it really a psyker if every spell cast isn't risking a tpk?
Probably no one (almost no one) wants to play russian roulette for over 100 hours.
If every time you used a skill you had a chance to die randomly (no matter if you summoned a bunch of demons or just exploded), it would end by simply pressing F8.
Owlcat's impaired fight design is definitely enough, there's no point in adding more pain to it.
This type of gameplay is unpleasant for most sane people.
Probably true, it works better in TT where you can't quickload. But even if you remove some of the tpks, the effects are fun!
But the fact that all psykers are walking time bombs is what made them balanced and is what justifies the dislike the general public feels towards them.
Same as playing wild mage in bg2. It was funny for a while, then it became mostly annoying after the next wipe due to the summoning of a murderous demon.
Considering how Owlcat designs its games, that would be about 10 times worse.
 

Dishonoredbr

Erudite
Joined
Jun 13, 2019
Messages
2,233
Probably no one (almost no one) wants to play russian roulette for over 100 hours.
*Uses a buff on your companion*
russian-roulette.gif
 

frajaq

Erudite
Joined
Oct 5, 2017
Messages
2,437
Location
Brazil
Is anyone here even playing RT tabletop?

my memories of Rogue Trade was that the original rules about how ships and ship combat works was straight up *horrible*

I remember people using some fan-made complete overhaul of the rules made and found in the Fantasy Flight Games forums
 

Dishonoredbr

Erudite
Joined
Jun 13, 2019
Messages
2,233
https://www.thegamer.com/warhammer-40000-rogue-trader-lgbt-romance/
Warhammer 40,000: Rogue Trader Devs “Would Love To Have” More LGBT Romance Options, But Won’t
BY
BEN SLEDGE
PUBLISHED 15 HOURS AGO
Owlcat Games developers sit down with TheGamer to talk discuss all things romance in its forthcoming Warhammer CRPG


Owlcat Games is intent on making the most immersive simulation of life in the 41st millennium. Rogue Traders live on the edge of the Imperium, skirting imperial laws thanks to the Warrants of Trade that they carry in their cathedral-esque spacecraft. They’re the perfect protagonist for a CRPG, seeing as they are (usually) more regular human than galactic super soldier, are joined by a cast of weirdos from across the universe, and abide by their own wavering morality more than a sense of loyalty to the God-Emperor of Mankind.

THEGAMER VIDEO OF THE DAY


Owlcat, however, wants to put a leash on that freedom to protect the lore and direct players to engage with Warhammer 40,000: Rogue Trader's narrative on a more substantive level. Whether this is limiting the clothes that your character can wear, as they explained in our previous interview, or weapons each character can use, the restrictions offer as much of an opportunity for roleplaying as the freedom of choice laid out in front of you.


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This also means that romance options are limited, much to the chagrin of alpha and beta players. Magos Explorator Pasqal Haneumann and Sister Argenta of the Adepta Sororitas, among others, are not romanceable, no matter the gender of your Rogue Trader. The restriction on the latter of the two particularly bothers players populating online forums, as more people are interested in shacking up with a sexy warrior nun than a weird half-robot dude who speaks to his rifles. Who’d have thunk it?



“Implementing the romances with the companions was the challenge of itself because we need to respect the lore and the restrictions that there are in the lore, and on the other hand, we wanted to make it exciting for the player,” explains narrative lead Olga Kelner. Again, it comes back to the lore, but it’s also about being true to the characters Owlcat has created.


“Sometimes it was for lore reasons,” Kelner continues. “Sometimes it was for character consistency because, for example, Seneschal Abelard [Werserian]. There are some things in the character's background and his relationship with your predecessor and in his relationship with his dead wife because he's a widower, that it just didn't feel right to implement romance because, it would go against the narrative, it wouldn't be true to his character.”

However, when I mention that gay men or players roleplaying a gay male Inquisitor are disappointed that there is only one, unpalatable romance option available to them – the only possibility is an alien terrorist, who you may not even recruit – the mood in the Discord call gets immediately frosty. Straight players, male or female, already have at least three options, while lesbian players suffer a similar issue to gay men with just one bisexual character to romance, an incredibly generic banker. At least she’s not a terrorist. No sooner have I asked whether Owlcat would implement more LGBT+ romances into the full game, executive producer Anatoly Shestov jumps in, audibly defensive, as if to shut down any perceived accusation of homophobia from Rogue Trader’s gay fans.


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“It's not about LGBTQ+ options,” he says. “It's about the narrative of the whole picture that we envisioned and want to elaborate on. We didn't see the romances as an option to point out any such ‘aspect’, we see any romance as our way to elaborate on the stories in the most personal way.

“For us internally, it's not the story of the gay person or straight person, it's a story of a Seneschal who lost his wife, or a story of a blood-soaked sociopath who can challenge his own thoughts, or a story of an entire species who can change its own perspective of the world through you. These are the things that we want to tell and we pick the best options to highlight the strength of the story – both in the models, in the portraits, in the voiceovers, in all of the aspects.

“It's not like we have a quota. No, we want to tell a strong story. We found the best possible in a given budget and time frame options to deliver it. And that's how we ended with the given set of the romances. Of course, any person of the team would love to have tens of additional romances. But at the same time, any person on the team would love to have, for example, additional companions like Kroot, everyone wants to have the Kroot mercenary.”



Shestov goes on to explain the process of game development, and that budget and salary constraints all contribute to cutting content. Owlcat prioritised the most immersive features, so naval combat in outer space – a very impressive system to have built from scratch – made the cut instead of more romances.

I can’t help but feel that he’s missing the point, though. Players have no problems with the fact that party members have their set sexualities, if anything it makes more sense and keeps them true to their characters. Players take umbrage with the fact that the already limited options are even further limited if you’re roleplaying as a gay Rogue Trader. The ‘we see past sexuality’ line doesn’t hold up when straight players are afforded the luxury to pick and choose who they romance and gay players are not.


When IRL Warhammer communities are so dominated by straight men, it would have been refreshing for LGBT+ players to see themselves better represented in the 40k universe in a game that promises to offer more roleplaying opportunities than any Games Workshop-affiliated title to date. As it stands, it feels like they’ve been overlooked and the developers are offering a blanket ‘we didn’t have enough money for a lesbian’ statement that seems to willfully misunderstand the issue. Owlcat implemented the romances, so it could have implemented more LGBT+ options by simply balancing the number of straight and LGBT+ party members to better reflect the post-gender society they inhabit.

It also seems a little hypocritical to say that romances must be driven by characters’ needs and befit their own personal stories, but also that these aren’t stories of gay characters or straight characters. A Drukhari terrorist can be gay as much as a straight Seneschal might not be ready for a relationship due to his grief. Characters’ sexualities are a part of them, and so long as romance is a part of Warhammer 40,000: Rogue Trader, their sexualities are important and worthy of discussion. After all, love is as much a part of life in the 41st millennium as war.

:M
 

The_Mask

Just like Yves, I chase tales.
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Hey maybe they can even remove good-looking women from the game. Out of sight, out of mind, yeah?

So based.
I never said they should remove good-looking women. I only said they should remove romances. There's a good reason P:T romances are still the best ones even a quarter of a century after they were written. Not a lot people can write them.

Especially when you want to "supply" the needs of pederasts and co.
 

Ismaul

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I never said they should remove good-looking women.
Never said you did. Just pushing the argument to absurdity. Watch:

I only said they should remove romances. There's a good reason P:T romances are still the best ones even a quarter of a century after they were written. Not a lot people can write them.
Agreed. Since good romances are rare, we should remove romances. For that matter, since anything of high quality is rare, we should just do nothing.
 

The_Mask

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In my defense, it is absurd that writers don't know what the word "romance" means anymore.

Which is a topic I've brought up before in this thread. With the exact same arguments.

So, technically, if writers learn to write romances, both my arguments and yours would become null.
 

Rhobar121

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If we had to remove everything that was not of high quality, we would still be playing pong today.
I don't know what people expect from writing in games, no one who can write well will waste their time writing plots and dialogues for games for a minimum wage.
 

sebas

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Writing in CRPGs should be small descriptions and dialogue, you don't need auteurs for that. Lore dumps are obnoxious and get in the way of the actual gameplay.

What games stand or fall on is their worldbuilding. The graphical design, the music, the UI, the way in which the gameplay integrates with these elements. If you look at the codex top 100 you'll find very few games that stand on their writing (PST, Kotor2 etc) and guess what, in all those examples the gameplay suffers. The most beloved crpgs Fallout, Gothic, BG, Morrowind, Underrail etc - none of them have writing worth a shit, there's no Dostoyevski, Sanderson or RR Martin writing these games. What they do have is immersive, memorable worldbuilding, solid gameplay systems and writing that doesn't get in the way of them.
 
Last edited:

Rhobar121

Scholar
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Sep 22, 2022
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Writing in CRPGs should be small descriptions and dialogue, you don't need auteurs for that. Lore dumps are obnoxious and get in the way of the actual gameplay.

What games stand of fall on is their worldbuilding. The graphical design, the music, the UI, the way in which the gameplay integrates with these elements. If you look at the codex top 100 you'll find very few games that stand on their writing and guess what, in all those examples the gameplay suffers.
Codex is the second most retarded place on the internet (after 4chan), so I wouldn't consider it.
 

The_Mask

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Strap Yourselves In Codex Year of the Donut Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag. Pathfinder: Wrath I helped put crap in Monomyth
No?

Prude in the sense of puritan, concerned with modesty and decorum in behavior and appearance, especially concerning anything related to romantic and sexual behaviors, etc.
prude = a person who is or claims to be easily shocked by matters relating to sex or nudity.
puritan = having or displaying censorious moral beliefs, especially about pleasure and sex.

romance = a feeling of excitement and mystery associated with love.

So... English is not my first language, but that's what the dictionary says. You tell me right from wrong.
 

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