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Warhammer Warhammer 40,000: Rogue Trader - turn-based Warhammer 40k RPG from Owlcat Games - Void Shadows DLC coming August 8th

Grunker

RPG Codex Ghost
Patron
Joined
Oct 19, 2009
Messages
27,529
Location
Copenhagen
It's 2024 and game devs still think of documentation as something optional. Insane to me that this is the case with especially RPGs specifically but Owlcat is definitely part of the majority when they opt out of it.
 

AshenNedra

Educated
Joined
May 22, 2018
Messages
76
We're planning to prepare an article with all the big changes that will be included in the 1.1.2 big patch. But this will be closer to the patch itself
Hi, is there a manual (complete) somewhere that I could read ?

I tried the character creation, but, knowing nothing about the rules, could not get past it.

Following builds found on the net in Pathfinder kind of ruined the experience for me. I don't want to repeat the same mistake.

Many thanks in advance.
Hey! There are tooltips in the game itself, a small guide on YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GvfbRJvfGkQ&t=11s&ab_channel=OwlcatGames and a lot of build guide videos as well. Try choosing your style and google for the build, most probably you'll find something on it!
So, in others words , no?
 

Owlcat_Eyler

Owlcat Games
Developer
Joined
Mar 10, 2023
Messages
214
We're planning to prepare an article with all the big changes that will be included in the 1.1.2 big patch. But this will be closer to the patch itself
Hi, is there a manual (complete) somewhere that I could read ?

I tried the character creation, but, knowing nothing about the rules, could not get past it.

Following builds found on the net in Pathfinder kind of ruined the experience for me. I don't want to repeat the same mistake.

Many thanks in advance.
Hey! There are tooltips in the game itself, a small guide on YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GvfbRJvfGkQ&t=11s&ab_channel=OwlcatGames and a lot of build guide videos as well. Try choosing your style and google for the build, most probably you'll find something on it!
So, in others words , no?
Explain to me then what you mean, please. Every characteristic, class, and skill has a description in the game. The D100 mechanics are also described in the in-game encyclopedia. Quite a lot of things are described there by the way.

If you mean complete builds - no, there is no such thing in the game, it's left for the player.
 

ArchAngel

Arcane
Joined
Mar 16, 2015
Messages
20,363
We're planning to prepare an article with all the big changes that will be included in the 1.1.2 big patch. But this will be closer to the patch itself
Hi, is there a manual (complete) somewhere that I could read ?

I tried the character creation, but, knowing nothing about the rules, could not get past it.

Following builds found on the net in Pathfinder kind of ruined the experience for me. I don't want to repeat the same mistake.

Many thanks in advance.
Hey! There are tooltips in the game itself, a small guide on YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GvfbRJvfGkQ&t=11s&ab_channel=OwlcatGames and a lot of build guide videos as well. Try choosing your style and google for the build, most probably you'll find something on it!
So, in others words , no?
You do not need builds. Just pick what sounds good to you and you will become OP by end of Act 3. As long as you are not spending all your points into taking all skill masteries and trying to master of all weapons you will be OP
 

ERYFKRAD

Barbarian
Patron
Joined
Sep 25, 2012
Messages
28,602
Strap Yourselves In Serpent in the Staglands Shadorwun: Hong Kong Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag. Pathfinder: Wrath I'm very into cock and ball torture I helped put crap in Monomyth
Explain to me then what you mean, please
A complete standalone reference document containing explicit and occasionally illustrated instructions on all the various aspects of character building from the cosmetic to the functional, which can be accessed without accessing the game, youtube or any other internet driven resource.
That do the job for ya?
Seriously, ask your dudes, them chaps might have dropped the manual somewhere in %Appdata%/locallow/roaming like they did with Kingmaker.
 

Yosharian

Arcane
Joined
May 28, 2018
Messages
9,753
Location
Grand Chien
I don't think there's even a fig of malice in Owlcat's design. I think at this point the deal you make when buying an Owlcat game is blatantly clear:

You get: insane scope from a team with way too few resources to handle it

You pay: with broken shit and unfinished chapters

I still don't think Rogue Trader can be salvaged completely.

I think this is the case with at least Wrath at well. There are still tons of things that don't work properly and so much inane shit you have to get through like the heroes minigame and the puzzles being copy-pasted version of the same core puzzle ad nauseam etc.

The megadungeon is the definition of scope > substance. It's the biggest dungeon in the game by far and holds nothing of value except the boss fight.
Yeah malice is too much, it's as you say they just consistently bite off more than they can chew
 

Grunker

RPG Codex Ghost
Patron
Joined
Oct 19, 2009
Messages
27,529
Location
Copenhagen
it's as you say they just consistently bite off more than they can chew

I suppose it is "malice" (rather, it is intent) in the sense that at this point the obviously know that they can't chew it - they just do it anyway because they would rather sacrifice quality for scope.
 

Yosharian

Arcane
Joined
May 28, 2018
Messages
9,753
Location
Grand Chien
Manuals and documentation seem to have gone the way of the dodo, these days you either look on the wiki or you rely on speaking to other players on the game's Discord to find out how the game works
 

Yosharian

Arcane
Joined
May 28, 2018
Messages
9,753
Location
Grand Chien
it's as you say they just consistently bite off more than they can chew

I suppose it is "malice" (rather, it is intent) in the sense that at this point the obviously know that they can't chew it - they just do it anyway because they would rather sacrifice quality for scope.
That's fair I suppose

What pisses me off is the endless half-arsed minigames every time
 

Camel

Scholar
Joined
Sep 10, 2021
Messages
2,108
There's malice in how Rogue Trader is built: Chapter 1/2 are decent and relied on the free work given by paying beta testers (to the point that the game at release still had the inbuilt bug report tool!) everything else was half-assed.

Incompetency, I can forgive. Difficulties, I can understand. Malice, however, is difficult to justify.
Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity.
 

AshenNedra

Educated
Joined
May 22, 2018
Messages
76
We're planning to prepare an article with all the big changes that will be included in the 1.1.2 big patch. But this will be closer to the patch itself
Hi, is there a manual (complete) somewhere that I could read ?

I tried the character creation, but, knowing nothing about the rules, could not get past it.

Following builds found on the net in Pathfinder kind of ruined the experience for me. I don't want to repeat the same mistake.

Many thanks in advance.
Hey! There are tooltips in the game itself, a small guide on YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GvfbRJvfGkQ&t=11s&ab_channel=OwlcatGames and a lot of build guide videos as well. Try choosing your style and google for the build, most probably you'll find something on it!
So, in others words , no?
Explain to me then what you mean, please. Every characteristic, class, and skill has a description in the game. The D100 mechanics are also described in the in-game encyclopedia. Quite a lot of things are described there by the way.

If you mean complete builds - no, there is no such thing in the game, it's left for the player.
A physical or a .pdf file that would constitute an old school manual.

That I could, you know, read.
 

Dishonoredbr

Erudite
Joined
Jun 13, 2019
Messages
2,239
I suppose it is "malice" (rather, it is intent) in the sense that at this point the obviously know that they can't chew it
They just need to keep try to chew it. One day they might break their jaw or finally chew it. They just need keep bang their head against a wall until it breaks.
 

Harthwain

Magister
Joined
Dec 13, 2019
Messages
4,968
Manuals and documentation seem to have gone the way of the dodo, these days you either look on the wiki or you rely on speaking to other players on the game's Discord to find out how the game works
Depends. Some games do have manuals and some developer diaries can be considered documentation (depending on how in-depth they are). But it is true this became a rare exception from the norm.
 

Grunker

RPG Codex Ghost
Patron
Joined
Oct 19, 2009
Messages
27,529
Location
Copenhagen
it's as you say they just consistently bite off more than they can chew

I suppose it is "malice" (rather, it is intent) in the sense that at this point the obviously know that they can't chew it - they just do it anyway because they would rather sacrifice quality for scope.
That's fair I suppose

What pisses me off is the endless half-arsed minigames every time

That's the only thing that gets an angry response from me as well. The scope of their games would still be *massive* without them, and they always suck, so why not dedicate those resources to quality control.
 

Grunker

RPG Codex Ghost
Patron
Joined
Oct 19, 2009
Messages
27,529
Location
Copenhagen
Manuals and documentation seem to have gone the way of the dodo, these days you either look on the wiki or you rely on speaking to other players on the game's Discord to find out how the game works
Depends. Some games do have manuals and some developer diaries can be considered documentation (depending on how in-depth they are). But it is true this became a rare exception from the norm.

Every single RPG should have KotC's hyperlink system. I cannot be convinced otherwise.
 

ERYFKRAD

Barbarian
Patron
Joined
Sep 25, 2012
Messages
28,602
Strap Yourselves In Serpent in the Staglands Shadorwun: Hong Kong Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag. Pathfinder: Wrath I'm very into cock and ball torture I helped put crap in Monomyth
Manuals and documentation seem to have gone the way of the dodo, these days you either look on the wiki or you rely on speaking to other players on the game's Discord to find out how the game works
Depends. Some games do have manuals and some developer diaries can be considered documentation (depending on how in-depth they are). But it is true this became a rare exception from the norm.

Every single RPG should have KotC's hyperlink system. I cannot be convinced otherwise.
KoTC or ToEE?
 

Grunker

RPG Codex Ghost
Patron
Joined
Oct 19, 2009
Messages
27,529
Location
Copenhagen
Manuals and documentation seem to have gone the way of the dodo, these days you either look on the wiki or you rely on speaking to other players on the game's Discord to find out how the game works
Depends. Some games do have manuals and some developer diaries can be considered documentation (depending on how in-depth they are). But it is true this became a rare exception from the norm.

Every single RPG should have KotC's hyperlink system. I cannot be convinced otherwise.
KoTC or ToEE?

KotC. In the first game you can click on any mechanics-related text and it takes you to a window with an exact description of that mechanic. The entire game's text is basically a hyperlinked wikipedia of documentation, and it is totally unintrusive. Perfection as far as documentation goes, in my opinion.
 

ArchAngel

Arcane
Joined
Mar 16, 2015
Messages
20,363
it's as you say they just consistently bite off more than they can chew

I suppose it is "malice" (rather, it is intent) in the sense that at this point the obviously know that they can't chew it - they just do it anyway because they would rather sacrifice quality for scope.
That's fair I suppose

What pisses me off is the endless half-arsed minigames every time

That's the only thing that gets an angry response from me as well. The scope of their games would still be *massive* without them, and they always suck, so why not dedicate those resources to quality control.
RT one does not suck for once, at least the space combat part. It is just average. Even the colony building stuff is just average instead of bad to terrible how it was in previous two games (at least until they patched them).
 

Owlcat_Eyler

Owlcat Games
Developer
Joined
Mar 10, 2023
Messages
214
We're planning to prepare an article with all the big changes that will be included in the 1.1.2 big patch. But this will be closer to the patch itself
Hi, is there a manual (complete) somewhere that I could read ?

I tried the character creation, but, knowing nothing about the rules, could not get past it.

Following builds found on the net in Pathfinder kind of ruined the experience for me. I don't want to repeat the same mistake.

Many thanks in advance.
Hey! There are tooltips in the game itself, a small guide on YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GvfbRJvfGkQ&t=11s&ab_channel=OwlcatGames and a lot of build guide videos as well. Try choosing your style and google for the build, most probably you'll find something on it!
So, in others words , no?
Explain to me then what you mean, please. Every characteristic, class, and skill has a description in the game. The D100 mechanics are also described in the in-game encyclopedia. Quite a lot of things are described there by the way.

If you mean complete builds - no, there is no such thing in the game, it's left for the player.
A physical or a .pdf file that would constitute an old school manual.

That I could, you know, read.
Got it. Uhm.. No, I don't think we have one, unfortunately :(
 

Alienman

Retro-Fascist
Patron
Joined
Sep 10, 2014
Messages
17,477
Location
Mars
Codex 2016 - The Age of Grimoire Make the Codex Great Again! Grab the Codex by the pussy Codex Year of the Donut Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag.
Manuals and documentation seem to have gone the way of the dodo, these days you either look on the wiki or you rely on speaking to other players on the game's Discord to find out how the game works
Or you get 2 hour tutorials to suffer through.
 

notpl

Arbiter
Joined
Dec 6, 2021
Messages
1,443
it's as you say they just consistently bite off more than they can chew

I suppose it is "malice" (rather, it is intent) in the sense that at this point the obviously know that they can't chew it - they just do it anyway because they would rather sacrifice quality for scope.
I resent this description because Rogue Trader did not have an especially innovative or ambitious scope. It is just a totally bog-standard crpg that they released half-finished.
 

Fedora Master

Arcane
Patron
Edgy
Joined
Jun 28, 2017
Messages
28,935
It's 2024 and game devs still think of documentation as something optional. Insane to me that this is the case with especially RPGs specifically but Owlcat is definitely part of the majority when they opt out of it.
They'd first need to understand their own creation.
 

Dayyālu

Arcane
Joined
Jul 1, 2012
Messages
4,538
Location
Shaper Crypt
I don't think there's even a fig of malice in Owlcat's design.

People make good points. Yet, I've played my good share of games that fell apart thanks to publisher pressure and shit. Hell, Beloved Codex Classics have crappy endgame levels and cut content too, terrible combat and unsatisfactory plotlines.

The problem with Rogue Trader is that .... well, first point: using paying customers as beta testers is objectionable. We all know that gamers are cattle and they proudly pay a premium for being bug testers, and hell I did so too because I paid for this shit at release and had to install a freaking third party cheat engine to simply finish the game, but I'd love to have developers that do not require their customers to be guinea pigs because they can't be arsed to do playtesting. "They did it for every Pathfinder game too!" this is the second point.

It's the third time they do this shit. First time, good. Second time, understandable. Third time, it's even worse than the first two times. Releasing broken, unfinished products and then sloooowly fixing shit is another cancer typical of modern development. Someone at Owlcat finds this acceptable, or even a "proper market strategy". After all, gamers are cattle that will buy your product.

Furthermore, Rogue Trader is insanely frontloaded. Everything that works and was tested is in Chapter 1/2. I find this malicious, because of course people aren't going to refund a game that manages to keep basic quality for a while before nosediving hard. And Rogue Trader nosedives harder that Wrath. Sure, gamers are cattle and they won't even bother going past Chapter 2.

The fourth point is fuzzier and more personal: there's an ungodly amount of Warhammer shovelware. Streum On Studio built a career on crappy games that with all their massive problems still try their best to be good Warhammer experience. When Rogue Trader gives up, it completely gives up. I felt like the game had no respect for the player, for my time and for my efforts, and everything was a cobbled-together mess built just because they could slap a Chapter 3-4-5 label on it, call it done, and distribute it to the cattle. From the smallest things (the Rogue Trader capital levels swap between damaged models and undamaged models with the shittiest justifications) from the biggest (entire minigames like Colony Management being essentially fake) it felt like they gave up, wrote some perfunctory crap because they had to, and dumped it. There's malice in being so uncaring of your product and your playerbase.

And yes, I'm still incredibly salty about it six months after finishing this game. But hell, I've been on the Codex for 10+ years, if I didn't hold grudges for shitty games where would I be?
 
Joined
Jan 7, 2012
Messages
14,485
Death Cult and Genestealers, me likey.

I'd like to like this, then I remembered I paid for an unfinished, broken product done by borderline scammers that can't even design a functional combat/character system.

If only there was previous experience to clearly and unmistakably inform you that buying an Owlcat game before at least two years have passed is a completely retarded endeavor.

Hell I bought Wrath after one and a half years when the Enhanced edition came and it was still too early!
So did the two year timer start upon release or will it be starting with the Rogue Trader Enhanced Edition?
 

Tyranicon

A Memory of Eternity
Developer
Joined
Oct 7, 2019
Messages
6,626
So when the DLC comes out, I can finally play the game I bought last year?

Informative.
 

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