Was Dark Souls 2 the greatest game that From Software ever made?

[Deuce Traveler]

I just finished Dark Souls 2 a few days ago and here's a mini-review:

The Good
- Man, I love the feel of this setting. I played Demon Souls and then Dark Souls 1, so it was really nice to return. I can't easily describe the feeling of playing these games in words. The soft despair happening all around as people cannot recall what they are about. The music. The mix of natural beauty and disturbing gloom. I love it.
- I really appreciate how every weapon feels different and how each player is going to find a handful that they'll like and stick with. I maxed out the Fire Longsword to +10, but then transitioned to a maxed out Greatsword. Towards the last quarter I started trying out Sword and Board styles of combat, the use of bows and poison, and dual-wielding large swords.
- The first 3/4 of the game had me completely addicted and wanting to explore more, more, more...
- I really do like the level design for the majority of the game. Not the monsters mind you (I'll get to that), but the various levels. The crypts were a lot of fun, as was running around the first couple of forests and keeps.
- I liked the summoned characters and the hints of their backstories. Benhart of Jugo and Lucatiel of Mirrah I especially liked.

The Bad
- I was done with this game by the time I got to the final castle. It's mostly big guys in armor which I had already fought a ton of to get to this point. And when it's not big guys in armor it's something like a water stage where your movement is slowed down. Why anyone thought a water level would be fun in a game where maneuvering is the main selling point of the game is beyond me.
- The bosses were evocative, but weren't nearly as fun to fight as bosses were in previous games. Some of the bosses just seemed to be copy and pasted from the first Dark Souls.
- The game was too long and became a slog at the end. I caught myself several times getting impatient and just throwing myself into the enemies in a mad dash just to be done. Somewhere along the line the game went from being a joy and each battle a dance to me just wanting to be done with it.
- I wasn't impressed by the DLCs and didn't bother to finish them.

Still, a somewhat frustrating Dark Souls is still better than 95% of the games on the market. Still recommend.

 

[fork]

[...]
- I wasn't impressed by the DLCs and didn't bother to finish them.
[...]

 

[Hassar]

I just finished Dark Souls 2 a few days ago and here's a mini-review:

The Good
- Man, I love the feel of this setting. I played Demon Souls and then Dark Souls 1, so it was really nice to return. I can't easily describe the feeling of playing these games in words. The soft despair happening all around as people cannot recall what they are about. The music. The mix of natural beauty and disturbing gloom. I love it.
- I really appreciate how every weapon feels different and how each player is going to find a handful that they'll like and stick with. I maxed out the Fire Longsword to +10, but then transitioned to a maxed out Greatsword. Towards the last quarter I started trying out Sword and Board styles of combat, the use of bows and poison, and dual-wielding large swords.
- The first 3/4 of the game had me completely addicted and wanting to explore more, more, more...
- I really do like the level design for the majority of the game. Not the monsters mind you (I'll get to that), but the various levels. The crypts were a lot of fun, as was running around the first couple of forests and keeps.
- I liked the summoned characters and the hints of their backstories. Benhart of Jugo and Lucatiel of Mirrah I especially liked.

The Bad
- I was done with this game by the time I got to the final castle. It's mostly big guys in armor which I had already fought a ton of to get to this point. And when it's not big guys in armor it's something like a water stage where your movement is slowed down. Why anyone thought a water level would be fun in a game where maneuvering is the main selling point of the game is beyond me.
- The bosses were evocative, but weren't nearly as fun to fight as bosses were in previous games. Some of the bosses just seemed to be copy and pasted from the first Dark Souls.
- The game was too long and became a slog at the end. I caught myself several times getting impatient and just throwing myself into the enemies in a mad dash just to be done. Somewhere along the line the game went from being a joy and each battle a dance to me just wanting to be done with it.
- I wasn't impressed by the DLCs and didn't bother to finish them.

Still, a somewhat frustrating Dark Souls is still better than 95% of the games on the market. Still recommend.

The DLC boss fight music in Crown of the Sunken King was often better than entire parts of the game. I hear you on the slog part.

I actually like the Shrine of Amana’s design. But I think this is where DS2 starts showing laziness. It was obvious that some enemies just had no reason to exist and just waited for you to enter their line of sight. They just stand around staring straight ahead. This was also noticeable in the Keep with the desert sorceresses. This breaks immersion and I think it is why you get exhausted towards the end of the game. Even NES-era games had constantly scrolling/moving enemies to keep your mind engaged and build an illusion of a living world. Souls usually camouflaged this by having enemy triggers occur right before you came upon them.

The other two DLCs were misses for me but I usually play magic users. Those were not designed for a range of play styles.

 

[Jinn]

The DLC are all magnificent! Please take a break from the game and try them in the future. Just sounds like you're burnt out.

 

[Morenatsu.]

I don't like any form of DLC in any game. I tried Dark Souls 2's for about fifteen minutes and then left.

 

[Young_Hollow]

I just finished Dark Souls 2 a few days ago and here's a mini-review:

The Good
- Man, I love the feel of this setting. I played Demon Souls and then Dark Souls 1, so it was really nice to return. I can't easily describe the feeling of playing these games in words. The soft despair happening all around as people cannot recall what they are about. The music. The mix of natural beauty and disturbing gloom. I love it.
- I really appreciate how every weapon feels different and how each player is going to find a handful that they'll like and stick with. I maxed out the Fire Longsword to +10, but then transitioned to a maxed out Greatsword. Towards the last quarter I started trying out Sword and Board styles of combat, the use of bows and poison, and dual-wielding large swords.
- The first 3/4 of the game had me completely addicted and wanting to explore more, more, more...
- I really do like the level design for the majority of the game. Not the monsters mind you (I'll get to that), but the various levels. The crypts were a lot of fun, as was running around the first couple of forests and keeps.
- I liked the summoned characters and the hints of their backstories. Benhart of Jugo and Lucatiel of Mirrah I especially liked.

The Bad
- I was done with this game by the time I got to the final castle. It's mostly big guys in armor which I had already fought a ton of to get to this point. And when it's not big guys in armor it's something like a water stage where your movement is slowed down. Why anyone thought a water level would be fun in a game where maneuvering is the main selling point of the game is beyond me.
- The bosses were evocative, but weren't nearly as fun to fight as bosses were in previous games. Some of the bosses just seemed to be copy and pasted from the first Dark Souls.
- The game was too long and became a slog at the end. I caught myself several times getting impatient and just throwing myself into the enemies in a mad dash just to be done. Somewhere along the line the game went from being a joy and each battle a dance to me just wanting to be done with it.
- I wasn't impressed by the DLCs and didn't bother to finish them.

Still, a somewhat frustrating Dark Souls is still better than 95% of the games on the market. Still recommend.

The most tiring part for me was Iron Keep and the place in the Iron King DLC leading up to the fight with Sir Alonne. Alonne Knights and the Smelter Demon just gross me out at this point. The only other place where I got tired of guys in armor was Drangleic Castle, which is sad considering its very interesting in some areas (ie the room with the masks) but overall it felt like the devs re-using old enemy assets to finish the game. The last three bosses being in the same room doesn't help either. The rushed feeling is also there in the Dragon Shrine, which I think could've been much more.

The DLCs are all great even without the bosses, but wanting to see more of the DLCs will make you want to beat them. All the DLCs also display the ran out of time at the end theme though. The double kitty boss, the sleepy dragon and the cancerous sprint to the Blue Smelter Demon just shows how little thought or time was devoted to those areas as compared to the rest of the DLC areas. Thankfully, all three are almost at the very last of their respective DLCs so you'll still enjoy the areas before them. In Ivory King, the only really mandatory boss is Ava while in the Iron King, you can get a full tour without fighting any of them as long as you use the wedges sparingly. In the Sunken King, IIRC the only mandatory / progression blocking boss is the three stooges fight with the the real bosses being at the very end.

The DLC weapons are also really good and if your build is optimized for fire + melee, IIRC you can get some good stuff from the Iron King DLC.

 

[Ash]

*looks at poll results*

Weird how things change. I remember the mass retard rage about this game around release and for years after. I thought they were dumb and crazy. Here's this game, in a sea of absolute decline shit everywhere you look, that is actually good and (mostly) improved upon its predecessor, and people acted like it was total garbage. Yeah the world design was slightly less impressive, but the level design - a more important aspect of design, was solid, and the mechanics and systems were all improved. What's not to love? Even if it were slightly worse than DS1 it would still classify as a worthwhile game, yet it's a slightly better game.

Edit: *reads thread*

Case in point:

The Vanilla game has easily some of the wort level design I have seen in a game period. The nonsensical layout is just a cherry on top, not the core issue.

What the fuck? How many games have you played...two?

and case #2:

Dark souls 1 is better because it has a better aestethic and visual design. This is true for enemies as well as levels. DS has incredible atmosphere, DS2 is ugly and janky with a world that does not feel like it makes any sense.

Right, because muh aesthetics being ever so slightly better is more important than all the gameplay improvements. We're discussing which is the better game, not the better art piece.

 

[deem]

 

[Morenatsu.]

It is not better. It is quite blatantly worse. The graphics are bad, the encounters are lazy, half the game is pathetically easy, and the setting and story and overall experience are very obviously thrown together just to get the game out... but omni-directional rolling makes it wholly superior, am I right. Well, we can't ever expect Ash to understand, can we.

 

[Nathir]

Dark souls 1 is better because it has a better aestethic and visual design. This is true for enemies as well as levels. DS has incredible atmosphere, DS2 is ugly and janky with a world that does not feel like it makes any sense.

Right, because muh aesthetics being ever so slightly better is more important than all the gameplay improvements. We're discussing which is the better game, not the better art piece.

It is important. The visuals of DS gave it it's own unique identity and atmosphere. DS2 has more generic enemies and bosses, terrible lighting, ugly and janky world design. Worse NPCs and no compelling story or world. And terrible encounter design. Things like these matter. Or are you trying to say DS1 and Demon Souls would be just as sucessful if they looked like Genshin impact? All the gameplay improvements? The core gameplay is the same as DS1.

Nobody is saying it's the worst game ever. I recently replayed it and it is indeed better than most games out there. I had a lot of fun, and it is okay to prefer it to DS1. But it is not a better game.

 

[Ash]

Dark souls 1 is better because it has a better aestethic and visual design. This is true for enemies as well as levels. DS has incredible atmosphere, DS2 is ugly and janky with a world that does not feel like it makes any sense.

Right, because muh aesthetics being ever so slightly better is more important than all the gameplay improvements. We're discussing which is the better game, not the better art piece.

It is important. The visuals of DS gave it it's own unique identity and atmosphere. DS2 has more generic enemies and bosses, terrible lighting, ugly and janky world design. Worse NPCs and no compelling story or world. And terrible encounter design. Things like these matter. Or are you trying to say DS1 and Demon Souls would be just as sucessful if they looked like Genshin impact? All the gameplay improvements? The core gameplay is the same as DS1.

Nobody is saying it's the worst game ever. I recently replayed it and it is indeed better than most games out there. I had a lot of fun, and it is okay to prefer it to DS1. But it is not a better game.

Except you're vastly overstating all of that. The decline present is so minor that it indeed *doesn't* matter. The fuck is wrong with you people acting like it has no soul and looks like a mobile game.

Jesus christ I wonder how you must bear to withstand the look of old school early 3D games like the Looking Glass classics (system shock/UUW/Deus Ex) for instance. You poor hollowed soul.

You want to actually see arguably "bad/ugly" graphics and aesthetics? Here: link

Also, I never said aesthetics didn't matter at all. Of course they do, but there's a threshold. If a game looks average/good/amazing = all acceptable and there's very sharply diminishing returns. Looks like shit = potentially unacceptable and potentially ruins the experience. The above is good if not amazing. Even the worst areas of the game never cross into unacceptable aesthetics.

Also explain this shitty encounter design you speak of. Probably the usual complaint of having to fight multiple enemies at once which....lol. Or the usual Shrine of Amana whining when the ranged enemy placement being a major pain in the ass while death pits are all around you is precisely the point and tougher late game encounter design as you progress is important, but aesthetics/lore simps aren't going to understand that. Shrine of Amana is one of the best maps in the entire Souls series.

In summary, game has -10% secondary elements: aesthetics, muh lore and characters (lol), but +20% gameplay depth and quailty. Should be a no brainer and yet here we are. At least you aren't claiming it is a shit game overall like the REEEEtards back in the day.

All the gameplay improvements? The core gameplay is the same as DS1.

Yes, gameplay improvements. Quite a few. Do you people even play or do you just watch streams on twitch? Or just too busy masturbating over the visuals and lore while the gameplay is all just a grind for you until you can see the next sights & speak to the next NPC? Or is the game parts just a vessel for you to provide immersion and atmosphere that you put up with it? Are you an Errant Signal fanboy?

 

[Frank Capicoli]

DS2 has more generic enemies and bosses, terrible lighting, ugly and janky world design. Worse NPCs and no compelling story or world.

Very unfortunate that we didn't get a game closer to the original concept of what DS2 was going to be. It probably would've tied things up better than getting a lesser version of what DS1 was.

Yes, gameplay improvements. Quite a few.

Personally there's something they changed in the movement and camera controls that bothers me to no end in DS2 and I'm not talking about ADP. It makes the movement feel clunkier and less responsive than DeS, DS1 or DS3.

I struggle to really think of any massive gameplay improvements that outshine the bad systems they implemented. I guess unrestricted bonfire travel really cut down on the tedium when you needed to backtrack.

 

[Morenatsu.]

Dark souls 1 is better because it has a better aestethic and visual design. This is true for enemies as well as levels. DS has incredible atmosphere, DS2 is ugly and janky with a world that does not feel like it makes any sense.

Right, because muh aesthetics being ever so slightly better is more important than all the gameplay improvements. We're discussing which is the better game, not the better art piece.

It is important. The visuals of DS gave it it's own unique identity and atmosphere. DS2 has more generic enemies and bosses, terrible lighting, ugly and janky world design. Worse NPCs and no compelling story or world. And terrible encounter design. Things like these matter. Or are you trying to say DS1 and Demon Souls would be just as sucessful if they looked like Genshin impact? All the gameplay improvements? The core gameplay is the same as DS1.

Nobody is saying it's the worst game ever. I recently replayed it and it is indeed better than most games out there. I had a lot of fun, and it is okay to prefer it to DS1. But it is not a better game.

Except you're vastly overstating all of that. The decline present is so minor that it indeed *doesn't* matter. The fuck is wrong with you people acting like it has no soul and looks like a mobile game.

Jesus christ I wonder how you must bear to withstand the look of old school early 3D games like the Looking Glass classics (system shock/UUW/Deus Ex) for instance. You poor hollowed soul.

You want to actually see arguably "bad/ugly" graphics and aesthetics? Here: link

Also, I never said aesthetics didn't matter at all. Of course they do, but there's a threshold. If a game looks average/good/amazing = all acceptable and there's very sharply diminishing returns. Looks like shit = potentially unacceptable and potentially ruins the experience. The above is good if not amazing. Even the worst areas of the game never cross into unacceptable aesthetics.

Also explain this shitty encounter design you speak of. Probably the usual complaint of having to fight multiple enemies at once which....lol. Or the usual Shrine of Amana whining when the ranged enemy placement being a major pain in the ass while death pits are all around you is precisely the point and tougher late game encounter design as you progress is important, but aesthetics/lore simps aren't going to understand that. Shrine of Amana is one of the best maps in the entire Souls series.

In summary, game has -10% secondary elements: aesthetics, muh lore and characters (lol), but +20% gameplay depth and quailty. Should be a no brainer and yet here we are. At least you aren't claiming it is a shit game overall like the REEEEtards back in the day.

All the gameplay improvements? The core gameplay is the same as DS1.

Yes, gameplay improvements. Quite a few. Do you people even play or do you just watch streams on twitch? Or just too busy masturbating over the visuals and lore while the gameplay is all just a grind for you until you can see the next sights & speak to the next NPC? Or is the game parts just a vessel for you to provide immersion and atmosphere that you put up with it? Are you an Errant Signal fanboy?

Every day you get a little bit stupider.

Deus Ex doesn't look too bad, it could be better, but it looks fine enough for an old game, and it wholly what it's supposed to be. Dark Souls 2 looks like a game where half the graphics were deleted, because they actually were. The shading is flat and ugly. It really doesn't matter that it has some potentially ‘cool’ locations if it looks like the graphics are permanently set to the lowest quality. And either way, cool locations are meaningless if they don't fit together and aren't used in compelling ways.

And what of the gameplay is actually an improvement? Did you even play it? It has... a couple of extra mechanics, but that doesn't matter when half the game is in such a sad state. It's not just ‘multiple enemies bad’, but rather that the encounters that are supposed to be challenging end in one swing of a sword, and others are just boring. Ah, but of course, what you actually care about isn't quality of gameplay, but quantity of random additional mechanics, preferably ones you created yourself to the detriment of everything charming about the game. People don't play games just because they look impressive on a spreadsheet, you know.

 

[Ash]

Please stop quoting me. One of the most retarded 'dex users I've encountered. This place is going down the shitter as more and more dumb degenerates migrate from fuck knows where.

 

[Star Citizen]

Man, I hated DS 2 on my first run. Worst pile of crap I'd ever played until deciding for whatever raisin to give that piece a crap another run and it clicked for me. Not sure what but it did. Now having fucking smashed my third run I love it even more and it's on par with the first for me. That art style being not as coherent as the first nor third was one of the gripes which I came to dig, felt like a weird fucking trip and I like how stamina was managed, where the player is not some ridiculous rolling clown but having to actually time that shit. Frigid Outskirts can eat one still tho.

 

[SumDrunkGuy]

Looks like Dark Souls 2 is infact the grestest game ever made according to the Codex. We have 21 YES votes versus 8 votes which also seem to be positive votes. So I'm proud to announce that Dark Souls 2 is the Codex's champion!

 

[curds]

I just started ds2 again after completing the first game for the third time.

I've gotta say, I do really love the vibe in ds2.

 

[Morenatsu.]

Please stop quoting me. One of the most retarded 'dex users I've encountered. This place is going down the shitter as more and more dumb degenerates migrate from fuck knows where.

Oh, I see. You put me on your ignore list so you could press an extra button to read my post and complain anyway. If you don't want me to reply, perhaps you could try developing good taste and keeping your hands off things that don't need your interference, but I think you'd rather cry about me being a furry, wouldn't you? Such is the life of modders.

 

[Jinn]

Looks like Dark Souls 2 is infact the grestest game ever made according to the Codex. We have 21 YES votes versus 8 votes which also seem to be positive votes. So I'm proud to announce that Dark Souls 2 is the Codex's champion!

I removed my vote because of this post, and also because of the actual voting options.

I am firm in my opinion that Dark Souls II: Scholar of the First Sin is my favorite game of the the Dark Souls series. However, I don't believe it's the greatest game ever made.

This poll should have been about the best Dark Souls game. Not the best game ever made. I will revise my vote if such a poll comes up, but until then, I must bow away from extremes.

 

[SumDrunkGuy]

Looks like Dark Souls 2 is infact the grestest game ever made according to the Codex. We have 21 YES votes versus 8 votes which also seem to be positive votes. So I'm proud to announce that Dark Souls 2 is the Codex's champion!

I removed my vote because of this post, and also because of the actual voting options.

I am firm in my opinion that Dark Souls II: Scholar of the First Sin is my favorite game of the the Dark Souls series. However, I don't believe it's the greatest game ever made.

This poll should have been about the best Dark Souls game. Not the best game ever made. I will revise my vote if such a poll comes up, but until then, I must bow away from extremes.

Jinn I love you, but in this instance you're taking an internet forum way too seriously.

 

[Jinn]

Jinn I love you, but in this instance you're taking an internet forum way too seriously.

I guess if I'm going to take the time to discuss video games on an internet forum in the first place, I'm going to do it seriously and honestly. From my perspective, what's the point otherwise?

But yeah, I guess I didn't realize it was entirely a joke thread.

 

[SumDrunkGuy]

I guess if I'm going to take the time to discuss video games on an internet forum in the first place, I'm going to do it seriously and honestly. From my perspective, what's the point otherwise?

But yeah, I guess I didn't realize it was entirely a joke thread.

Only partially a joke. DS2 really is my favorite From game. I was just calling it the GOAT to annoy the morbidly obese nerdos.

 

[Bread_N_Butter]

Dark Souls 2 was weird for me. I initially hated it due to the misleading E3 reveal but ended up really enjoying it later on. It's not my favorite From Software game but it's high up there. I still hate soul memory though.

 

[Deflowerer]

I don't even get how the pre-release looks better. Even in the pre-release footage, everything was mostly orange-brown shit due to the way lighting and shadows worked. Yeah, final version is clearly a bit too flat in instances, but it also generally makes it feel more dreamlike.

 

[samuraigaiden]

Sorry for derailing, but this statement to me is way more interesting than the entire discussion about Dark Souls (who cares, really?)

these games only can be truly experienced during their release window when everyone still is playing it blindly

This is the contemporary gamers version of "I only play RPGs for the story" or whatever other lame brained nonsense people used to say on forums back in my day.

A game can "only can be truly experienced during their release window"? Did Todd Howard tell you that? What's stopping someone from playing it blindly after the release window?