Star Wars Was KOTOR even worth a play?

[Saldrone]

This game felt like a step backwards in writing quality compared to previous BioWare games like Baldur's Gate 2, what happened?

 

[wwsd]

Is it worth playing? Yeah, if you like classic SW and you don't hate Bioware too much.

People will say it had shallow mechanics and dialogue, I say it was 2003. We're not talking about the Italian Renaissance here. Boys had forum avatars and signatures with GIFs of Dragon Ball Z characters from SNES games. Girls wore low-rise jeans so you could see the G-string. All in all, it was a pretty shallow time. Just run with it.

 

[Lyric Suite]

People will say it had shallow mechanics and dialogue, I say it was 2003.

Yeah and BG2 was 2000 nigga.

 

[Baron Tahn]

Didnt go through the whole thread but I enjoyed KOTOR, one of the last decent RPGs - but I like rtwp just fine. KOTOR 2 is better with the mod/patch that fixes it up a bit because it was rushed, but I thought it was still good. Its legacy made the first Mass Effect and from there, to my eyes, was where the decline began. ME2 was good as a blockbuster sort of thing but it sacrificed all the depth of the old days.

Just because games got prettier does not mean they got 'better' as games. A lot less going on 'under the hood' im general nowadays.

 

[KörangarTheMighty]

This game felt like a step backwards in writing quality compared to previous BioWare games like Baldur's Gate 2, what happened?

Dunno, I played both games within the last three or four years and neither had particularly strong plots or villain writing. BG II improved a bit in ToB, but most of the base game was just running around doing a billion quests that didn't relate to anything wider. About the only two things that BG II had that were objectively better writing-wise were the flavor of responses your PC could make in dialog, they were generally more clever and smarmy, and the amount of companion dialogue, however even that tended to surface at wildly inappropriate times. As for the quests themselves there are a handful that I can remember, Firkraag, the Planar Sphere, De'Arnise Keep but none because of writing quality. Even BG1 was better in that department. The moral dilemmas in BG2 were also severely lacking, very easy to track which was the good/evil choice. KotOR 1 at least had a few quests that weren't as clear such as Sunry on Manaan, who to betray on Korriban, the Lost Droid on Dantooine, the Hero Slaver on Kashyyyk etc.

One step forward, one step back.

 

[NecroLord]

This game felt like a step backwards in writing quality compared to previous BioWare games like Baldur's Gate 2, what happened?

Dunno, I played both games within the last three or four years and neither had particularly strong plots or villain writing. BG II improved a bit in ToB, but most of the base game was just running around doing a billion quests that didn't relate to anything wider. About the only two things that BG II had that were objectively better writing-wise were the flavor of responses your PC could make in dialog, they were generally more clever and smarmy, and the amount of companion dialogue, however even that tended to surface at wildly inappropriate times. As for the quests themselves there are a handful that I can remember, Firkraag, the Planar Sphere, De'Arnise Keep but none because of writing quality. Even BG1 was better in that department. The moral dilemmas in BG2 were also severely lacking, very easy to track which was the good/evil choice. KotOR 1 at least had a few quests that weren't as clear such as Sunry on Manaan, who to betray on Korriban, the Lost Droid on Dantooine, the Hero Slaver on Kashyyyk etc.

One step forward, one step back.

BG2 had a lot of content.
I guess that is one of its strengths.
Not stellar writing or anything. Being a video game rendition of AD&D 2E (though not one hundred percent faithful) is also great.

 

[Storyfag]

Been a good week for gaming on KOTOR. Now over 30 hours in and I've only 2 planets left to complete.

Genuinely surprised how much I am enjoying this. As suspected, now I've a lot more force powers at my disposal I'm enjoying the gameplay a lot more. It's still too simplistic and lacks strategic depth big time, but just dicking about with the powers is fun as is the general Jedi feeling which goes with that. Normal difficulty is definitely WAY too easy though once you're past the very early game.

But there's just some really great questing here which links in with the Star Wars universe. Credit to Bioware for expanding the first 6 films so practically but without bogging them down. That blend of "I'm a mystic space-knight" and "I've got bills to pay" is just really well done, and I like a lot of the characters in here too.

Liking it more the more I play, in fact this is probably the most I've ever enjoyed playing it. I definitely think suffering through trash like Tyranny and Solsta prior to this has given me a new appreciation of it. So far I'd rate it 8.5/10

Which planets have you visited?

 

[Storyfag]

who to betray on Korriban

Spoiler

Yuthura, obviously, and make the Sith Academy loyal to you as the returning Dark Lord

 

[NecroLord]

To me it never felt honorable to betray Yuthura, even on a DS playthrough.
Especially after "befriending" her...
Too bad you can't ditch Bastila and get Fat Fuckin' Twi'lek Milkers, eh?
Modders make it happen!

 

[KörangarTheMighty]

Yuthura, obviously, and make the Sith Academy loyal to you as the returning Dark Lord

Nah, they're all Malak's creatures.

Spoiler

 

[NecroLord]

I like how all those Sith punks at the Academy attack you after you kill the very MASTER of the Academy and potentially even his apprentice!
Not very smart at all...

 

[Storyfag]

Nah, they're all Malak's creatures.

Oh please. Uthar and definitely Jorak predate Malak AND Revan.

 

[NecroLord]

Nah, they're all Malak's creatures.

Oh please. Uthar and definitely Jorak predate Malak AND Revan.

I think Uthar got yeeted away by Revan when he took control of the Academy after he returned from the Unknown Regions with Malak, right?
It's not like Uthar could've challenged Revan anyway.

 

[Storyfag]

To me it never felt honorable to betray Yuthura, even on a DS playthrough.

Firstly, honour is not often a Sith trait. All chains are to be discarded.

Secondly, it remains the only way to subdue the whole Academy. I find it silly, as Yuthura should pledge loyalty to you just as well as Uthar does. I think the implication is that, having met you previously, Uthar recognises your Force aura and thus believes your claim, while Yuthura does not. That is silly.

 

[Storyfag]

Nah, they're all Malak's creatures.

Oh please. Uthar and definitely Jorak predate Malak AND Revan.

I think Uthar got yeeted away by Revan when he took control of the Academy after he returned from the Unknown Regions with Malak, right?
It's not like Uthar could've challenged Revan anyway.

The Academy was integrated into Revan's forces when he returned from the Unknown Regions, but just how much he interefered with its administration is not clear. I think they left Jorak in charge, whom then was ousted by Uthar. They didn't care, as long as the Academy continued to provide Sith adepts.

 

[KörangarTheMighty]

Oh please. Uthar and definitely Jorak predate Malak AND Revan.

They're the epitome of middle-management climbers that always seem to fall on their feet from regime to regime. They had their time in the sun, but now the Empire is moving in a different direction. The Dark Lord needs young, hip (preferably female) fanatics that dream of working for no one else!

 

[Falksi]

who to betray on Korriban

Spoiler

Yuthura, obviously, and make the Sith Academy loyal to you as the returning Dark Lord

Tatooine, Kashyyyk and I'm now on Manaan, just entered the Sith base.

 

[sayf_allah]

This game felt like a step backwards in writing quality compared to previous BioWare games like Baldur's Gate 2, what happened?

Dunno, I played both games within the last three or four years and neither had particularly strong plots or villain writing. BG II improved a bit in ToB, but most of the base game was just running around doing a billion quests that didn't relate to anything wider. About the only two things that BG II had that were objectively better writing-wise were the flavor of responses your PC could make in dialog, they were generally more clever and smarmy, and the amount of companion dialogue, however even that tended to surface at wildly inappropriate times. As for the quests themselves there are a handful that I can remember, Firkraag, the Planar Sphere, De'Arnise Keep but none because of writing quality. Even BG1 was better in that department. The moral dilemmas in BG2 were also severely lacking, very easy to track which was the good/evil choice. KotOR 1 at least had a few quests that weren't as clear such as Sunry on Manaan, who to betray on Korriban, the Lost Droid on Dantooine, the Hero Slaver on Kashyyyk etc.

One step forward, one step back.

BG2 had a lot of content.
I guess that is one of its strengths.
Not stellar writing or anything. Being a video game rendition of AD&D 2E (though not one hundred percent faithful) is also great.

BG2 has a lot of good quests, but I've never felt like it was particularly strong in a roleplaying sense. The companions were good, though. Mostly. The ones Beamdog added were all dogshit, in classic Beamdog fashion. I only ever play the Beamdog version if I'm using my PS4, since that's the only option available.

 

[Storyfag]

who to betray on Korriban

Spoiler

Yuthura, obviously, and make the Sith Academy loyal to you as the returning Dark Lord

Tatooine, Kashyyyk and I'm now on Manaan, just entered the Sith base.

Very good order. Korriban works best as the last planet of the four.

 

[NecroLord]

who to betray on Korriban

Spoiler

Yuthura, obviously, and make the Sith Academy loyal to you as the returning Dark Lord

Tatooine, Kashyyyk and I'm now on Manaan, just entered the Sith base.

Very good order. Korriban works best as the last planet of the four.

Did any of you guys try it as your first planet?
I think it's really rough. Can't see how you'd deal with some of the enemies there. The terentateks especially (I think you can bypass the ones in the Tomb)...

 

[Camel]

Did any of you guys try it as your first planet?
I think it's really rough. Can't see how you'd deal with some of the enemies there. The terentateks especially (I think you can bypass the ones in the Tomb)...

You can’t use Bastila on Korriban too.

 

[KörangarTheMighty]

Very good order. Korriban works best as the last planet of the four.

I prefer going there before Manaan. It's the planet that makes the most sense to be intercepted by the Leviathan upon leaving, among other reasons. If you're on the DS, it's the perfect place to begin breaking Bastila. Even on the LS, the planet has many scenarios that allow her doubts to slip out. Her fall is foreshadowed better in both cases.

You can’t use Bastila on Korriban too.

The override is a pathway to many abilities some consider to be unnatural...

 

[SmilingGorion]

KotOR was one of the last good RPGs of the Renaissance.

The combat system in Kotor is a joke and the game throws tons of enemy at the player.

The combat system is dogshit, but that is because the game was made for consoles.

 

[Falksi]

So finally finished it and yeah, really enjoyed it.

It did lose it's way a bit towards the end; even though the temple was kinda cool, Lehon itself felt like pure filler and they really could have just gone straight from the 4 planets to the Star Forge to keep the pacing tight.

The combat is definitely junk food, but good, fun junk food for sure. It just scrapes by being tactical enough to call itself tactical, but the good times definitely all came from just dicking about with Jedi powers. If people call the combat here "shit" they're not getting that it isn't trying to be a fine cuisine, it's a take-away with mates and there for cheap thrills. The powers evolve at a staggered enough rate so that you can have some fun, and then when you start to tire of them something else pops up. It's far from perfect, but I still had a good time with it in a trashy way. It definitely makes you feel badass.

The end boss fight was ace, and really reflected on how shite the Arishock fight in DA:2 was by comparison. NecroLord I didn't have any trouble hitting Malak, it's all about using Force Breach, but....even though I beat him at my first attempt...I did have to be very much on my toes to do that, Force Breaching the trapped Jedi, buffing and rebuffing in-between, and wearing him down with Plague and attacks. It made for a very interesting battle, and probably the best tactical 1-Vs-1 battle I can think of at the mo tbh.

The game did obviously also descend into really clichéd Star Wars stuff story-wise at the end too, again not bad, but just not as strong as the first 3/4s of the game.

But is it worth a play? 100% yes. In fact it's been some of the most fun I've had gaming so far this year. Coming to it on the back of trash like Tyranny and Solsta really made me appreciate it more than I ever have.

 

[NecroLord]

Plague is a pretty good force power.
No save allowed (actually I think it's a 100 difficulty in the combat log!).
You doing Kotor 2 next?