Star Wars Was KOTOR even worth a play?

[mondblut]

So if the most overused franchise of all time is your thing

Let's not confuse loving the OT with loving the SW brand et al.

Why would anyone not invested in the SW brand touch this bland crap, now or then?

It's basically NWN sans the few redeeming points NWN might have had.

 

[Disciple]

KotOR feels very consolized, and it's not just the controls – compare its empty corridors to those of Deus Ex, for instance. I don't like Neverwinter Nights, but that game feels much more like a conventional CRPG (even if the game isn't that good overall).

 

[Camel]

One thing I can say about BioWare games is that every BioWare game I have played, I have finished it. I would never play Dragon Age Origins or Mass Effect 3 again, those were both bitterly disappointing, but I did finish them. I think that is partially due to the repetition of structure/cliches, it's so familiar so it's intuitively 'easier' (not referring to difficulty) to complete.

I finished all Bioware games until DA:I and ME:A, despite several tries just couldn't play it.

I think I did attempt to replay KotOR in the previous decade (the 2010s) but I was shocked at how badly it holds up in terms of dialogue/writing - like actually so bad in comparison to KotOR 2. For me Peragus > Taris any day. From memory (and we're talking trying to remember 15-20 years ago) the combat was a bit better in KotOR than KotOR2 but it's like comparing different grades of lard.

KotOR writing is childish in places but dialogues are fine for me, many people consider the whole SW universe childish starting from original trilogy movies. Peragus is way too long, empty and boring. Avellone said that he would've made it shorter. I dread starting KotOR 2 because of Peragus. BioWare and Obsidian couldn't make decent combat in KotOR 1-2 so something was wrong with the devs, engine or rules. Both studios arguably were in their prime.

EUC: If you could go back and change one thing about Kotor II, what would that be?

CA: Drop a planet, chop 1 or 2 levels off of Peragus, drop the Disciple and Hanharr, and then use that energy to focus more on Malachor V. I would also remove all party-splitting mechanics (which while true to the franchise, didn’t go over well with players), and de-emphasize all cut-scenes (which the engine couldn’t really do well in the time provided with the programming and scripting support we had available).

 

[deama]

There's a morrowind total conversion set during kotor 1 and you begin in the same spaceship, does that count?

 

[NecroLord]

One thing I can say about BioWare games is that every BioWare game I have played, I have finished it. I would never play Dragon Age Origins or Mass Effect 3 again, those were both bitterly disappointing, but I did finish them. I think that is partially due to the repetition of structure/cliches, it's so familiar so it's intuitively 'easier' (not referring to difficulty) to complete.

I finished all Bioware games until DA:I and ME:A, despite several tries just couldn't play it.

I think I did attempt to replay KotOR in the previous decade (the 2010s) but I was shocked at how badly it holds up in terms of dialogue/writing - like actually so bad in comparison to KotOR 2. For me Peragus > Taris any day. From memory (and we're talking trying to remember 15-20 years ago) the combat was a bit better in KotOR than KotOR2 but it's like comparing different grades of lard.

KotOR writing is childish in places but dialogues are fine for me, many people consider the whole SW universe childish starting from original trilogy movies. Peragus is way too long, empty and boring. Avellone said that he would've made it shorter. I dread starting KotOR 2 because of Peragus. BioWare and Obsidian couldn't make decent combat in KotOR 1-2 so something was wrong with the devs, engine or rules. Both stuidos arguably were in their prime.

EUC: If you could go back and change one thing about Kotor II, what would that be?

CA: Drop a planet, chop 1 or 2 levels off of Peragus, drop the Disciple and Hanharr, and then use that energy to focus more on Malachor V. I would also remove all party-splitting mechanics (which while true to the franchise, didn’t go over well with players), and de-emphasize all cut-scenes (which the engine couldn’t really do well in the time provided with the programming and scripting support we had available).

Chris wanted to drop the Disciple? Thought he was a pretty decent character, but had some problems (namely that awful 10 Wisdom when he is supposed to be a Consular). Also voiced pretty well by Greg Ellis.
Also dropping Hanharr would mean no more of those sweet Dark Side permanent attribute increases...

 

[Camel]

Chris wanted to drop the Disciple? Thought he was a pretty decent character, but had some problems (namely that awful 10 Wisdom when he is supposed to be a Consular). Also voiced pretty well by Greg Ellis.
Also dropping Hanharr would mean no more of those sweet Dark Side permanent attribute increases...

Disciple is boring and pointless, Hanharr as a Wookie deconstruction wasn't compelling or interesting. Zaalbar wasn't that much better but served well as a meatshield in combat.

 

[NecroLord]

Chris wanted to drop the Disciple? Thought he was a pretty decent character, but had some problems (namely that awful 10 Wisdom when he is supposed to be a Consular). Also voiced pretty well by Greg Ellis.
Also dropping Hanharr would mean no more of those sweet Dark Side permanent attribute increases...

Disciple is boring and pointless, Hanharr as a Wookie deconstruction wasn't compelling or interesting. Zaalbar wasn't that much better but served well as a meatshield in combat.

Hanharr also has the "Wookiee Rage" ability, which is almost identical to the Sith Marauder's "Force Fury".

 

[Zlaja]

I remember deciding to get the original Xbox when Kotor 1 came out for it. I wasn't like the cool kids who got it for Halo. And I did enjoy my time with it (I wasn't dead on the inside back then). I even still have that physical copy of the game lying around somewhere.

Liking Kotor 1 is one thing but openly admitting of owning XBOX? Willingly?

I still have that original Xbox stashed in the closet in its original packaging. Selling it seemed pointless, 'cause the fucking shipping would cost almost as much as I could get for it.

 

[__scribbles__]

I dread starting KotOR 2 because of Peragus.

IMO Peragus by itself isn't too terrible. Nice atmosphere and mystery on a first playthrough. The issue comes with following it up with Telos station, which is as bland as bland can be. Telos station alone kills pretty much all my enthusiasm when trying to replay KOTOR II.

BioWare and Obsidian couldn't make decent combat in KotOR 1-2 so something was wrong with the devs, engine or rules.

It's the lack of challenge and poor encounter design. I place the blame on the devs.

 

[HeatEXTEND]

Why would anyone not invested in the SW brand touch this bland crap, now or then?

They wouldn't, or shouldn't.
It seems I need to explain so I will: 2 types of SW fans, OT people who became bitter and wary after the edits/prequels and SW people who like everything SW period; KOTOR might have meh RPG but it has decent SW.

 

[Serus]

Why would anyone not invested in the SW brand touch this bland crap, now or then?

They wouldn't, or shouldn't.
It seems I need to explain so I will: 2 types of SW fans, OT people who became bitter and wary after the edits/prequels and SW people who like everything SW period; KOTOR might have meh RPG but it has decent SW

I know at least one person who likes episodes VI - VI and also the prequels but hates what came later, so there are more types than just two. Incidentally he is younger than me but already in his 30s. I believe age is one of the factors. If someone was a kid or (early)teenager when watching given part(s) of the series he is more likely to like those parts, if he was adult then less so. Of curse there are other reasons, it seems to me this is just the biggest one. Finally there are also people who remain mental children for life but that's another story.

 

[Butter]

IMO Peragus by itself isn't too terrible. Nice atmosphere and mystery on a first playthrough. The issue comes with following it up with Telos station, which is as bland as bland can be. Telos station alone kills pretty much all my enthusiasm when trying to replay KOTOR II.

They're both atrocious, and it's really a wonder anyone got as far as complaining about unfinished Malachor V when the game dickslaps you with 6 hours of hot garbage right from the beginning.

 

[HeatEXTEND]

I know at least one person who likes episodes VI - VI and also the prequels but hates what came later

I've seen a couple of those in the wild, not many though.

 

[NecroLord]

IMO Peragus by itself isn't too terrible.

It's worse than terrible.
Only things I liked about it were the atmosphere and discovering what happened to the Peragus Mining Facility. Also Atton and him cracking jokes...

 

[PGG]

I get where you're coming from with your Bioware frustration, but KOTOR is a bit different from their other games. The gameplay's solid, and some people really love the story twists. If you liked Mass Effect 1 and 2, it might be worth giving KOTOR a shot.

 

[Sensuki]

I think I've mentioned this before but there is something about the emptiness in the levels of KotOR2 that works. It gives the game and the galaxy a very lonely, desolate feeling and atmosphere which I think actually works well for the game - and I'll bet it wasn't deliberate either. I have very fond memories of playing it for the first time in the middle of the night in 2006 or 07.

That emptiness in turn can lead to the game feeling a bit boring to play in some regard. I've replayed it a few times (including several replay attempts abandoned) because I enjoyed the desolate atmosphere of the game.

My last abandoned playthrough was during the lockdowns, I either got most of the way through Peragus or just got to Telos but I think I ran into a bug or crash something, I can't remember.

 

[Sensuki]

I finished all Bioware games until DA:I and ME:A, despite several tries just couldn't play it.

Mass Effect 3 was my last BioWare game. I can't remember what came first MA:3 or DA:I but Dragon Age Origins was enough to put me off any future Dragon Age games (never played DA:2) whereas I actually enjoyed Mass Effect 1 and 2 and I have replayed both of them, but I can't see myself ever replaying them again.

The original Mass Effect actually had semi-decent 3rd person shooter mechanics, like being able to unscope enemies with the sniper rifle not zoomed in on reflex when surprised. ME:2 unfortunately became true popamole

 

[Hace El Oso]

I think I've mentioned this before but there is something about the emptiness in the levels of KotOR2 that works. It gives the game and the galaxy a very lonely, desolate feeling and atmosphere which I think actually works well for the game - and I'll bet it wasn't deliberate either. I have very fond memories of playing it for the first time in the middle of the night in 2006 or 07.

That emptiness in turn can lead to the game feeling a bit boring to play in some regard. I've replayed it a few times (including several replay attempts abandoned) because I enjoyed the desolate atmosphere of the game.

I had the exact same experience. It has an extremely strong contemplative ‘night watch’ feeling, one of my very favorite attributes in anything.

 

[NecroLord]

Well, the galaxy was fucked up by both the Mandalorian Wars and the Jedi Civil War. In Kotor 2 you see the aftermath of the wars...
Hence, it is darker and more mature than your average Star Wars story.

 

[DY050503]

KOTOR 1 is a good game with community patches applied to fix bugs. KOTOR 2 has a pretty boring story and gameplay experience even with patches applied. It was developed by Obsidian not BioWare and should be treated like a different story of characters with the same names and similar (but not the same) settings.

 

[Lord_Potato]

So if the most overused franchise of all time is your thing

Let's not confuse loving the OT with loving the SW brand et al.

Why would anyone not invested in the SW brand touch this bland crap, now or then?

It's basically NWN sans the few redeeming points NWN might have had.

It does have better camera!

 

[Harthwain]

So if the most overused franchise of all time is your thing

Let's not confuse loving the OT with loving the SW brand et al.

Also something worth keeping in mind - KotOR 1 was the first game using the Old Republic setting (unless I missed something). This had some appeal for being a fresh take on Star Wars.

 

[Lord_Potato]

This had some appeal for being a fresh take on Star Wars.

While I do agree to a point, it seems like 5000 years before the Galactic Empire they already had blasters, space fighters, star destroyers, giant battlestations and of course lightsabers. Tatooine and Dantoine basically played the same role as in the main era of (films & expanded universe) Star Wars. It wasn't as fresh take as many would like, given the time jump.

Imagine these two ships were constructed 5000 years apart.

 

[Maxie]

KotOR feels very consolized, and it's not just the controls – compare its empty corridors to those of Deus Ex, for instance. I don't like Neverwinter Nights, but that game feels much more like a conventional CRPG (even if the game isn't that good overall).

You mean, based corridors? Nothing more infuriating than an RPG which turns into a fucking roomba simulator, stopping you all the time to poke and prod at containers

 

[Maxie]

Well, the galaxy was fucked up by both the Mandalorian Wars and the Jedi Civil War. In Kotor 2 you see the aftermath of the wars...
Hence, it is darker and more mature than your average Star Wars story.

deep&mature nonsense is the enemy of fun