Star Wars Was KOTOR even worth a play?

[Desiderius]

I had all these random memories for years and had no idea what game they were from until giving KotOR another go a few years ago. If memorability is the mark of a game worth playing then it passes the test.

Only thing I remember from Pools of Darkness for instance is that annoying Body of Moander.

 

[almondblight]

In my experience Baldur's Gate and many other early 3D RPGs like VTM:B, Gothic, Morrowind and Deus Ex aged much better than KOTOR, and even New Vegas in many respects.

I'd put KOTOR at around the same level as BG and VTM:B (haven't gotten to Gothic, Morrowind, or New Vegas yet, so can't comment on those). All three are flawed games that have some good elements. And all three have pretty bad real-time combat (VTM:B being the worst).

KOTOR has some interesting mission designs, though, like the Sith Academy. Or the trial where it's entirely possible to get the killer off and think he's innocent without realizing he did it. I'd say it's superior to KOTOR II in that regard, though KOTOR II did some other things better (in the end, I enjoyed them about the same amount).

 

[DemonKing]

Haven't played KOTOR for years but did both a good and evil playthrough back in the day.

Unlike a lot of the games of this era where evil = ask for more money when doing quests, this game could actually make you feel evil with some of the choices (like getting one of your companions to kill another companion who happened to be their best friend because of a debt of honour they owed you). Also it had HK-47, a truly gloriously homicidal companion.

It had awful minigames though and is clearly a console port. It also established the patented "Bio-twist" and hubworld structure that lasted for several more games going forwards. I think if you can overlook these and the age of the game it's probably worth a playthrough.

 

[NecroLord]

Yes.
KotOR is classic SW game. If you can ignore dated graphics and sometimes childish writing it provides great SW experience far better than the movie sequel trilogy. KotOR 2 is a classic with endgame ruined by Obsidian accepting an extremely short time frame to develop the game.

Kotor 2 - Consular 15 /Jedi Weaponmaster (or Marauder if Dark Side). Additional force powers AND strong melee combat capability provided by the Weaponmaster/Marauder feats and Light Side/Dark Side Maximum Alignment. Crazy powerful, with the ability to both buff and debuff AND destroy enemies in melee...

Consular 15 with Jedi Master/Sith Lord 5 is enough to electrocute all mobs with Force lightning. The game is far too easy.

The Vrook boss fight though...
It's why I don't go to Dantooine as my first planet when playing Dark Side, after getting the Ebon Hawk back.

 

[Lokhir]

In retrospective, KOTOR, both 1 and 2 are overrated dogshit. They both are walking sims where 65% of your playtime will be moving at the speed of a fucking slug to go to the other side of the map, require you to duel hordes of enemies with little to no diversity of animations, the same shitty RNG 24/7, enemies who are more often than not two times more powerful than you are after a point, so you need to spam medkits every two moves because otherwise you get fucked in repeat, or lower the difficulty, or use overbroken builds to win, which again is sign of poor balance in general.

Not to mention, KOTOR 1 story (since I didn't complete the 2) is incredibly slow, overly predictable, and plainly boring.

KOTOR 1 dialogue is pure garbage, companions are flavorless. KOTOR 2 is much better at that, but they managed to destroy the game-design even more, I literally couldn't progress in the game unless I had a fucking guide on the other screen, and this isn't me being retarded, I just don't see the point of having to search for 40 minutes for a solution that should take only 5 at most.

Other than 'muh nostalgiaz', 'it couldn't be done differently!!" which are not even objective criteria, I really don't understand how can anyone genuinely like these games.

 

[HeatEXTEND]

It's a Star Wars RPG and it's not complete crap, good enough for me.

 

[AdamReith]

I enjoyed it a lot, it's mostly inoffensive and you get a laser sword.

 

[Nano]

Unfortunately one of the things about KotOR 2 that got on my nerves last playthrough is how there's way too many annoying mandatory companions, and I'm not even talking about Kreia. Bao-Dur is boring and superfluous, the Handmaiden is a harpy bitch that the game doesn't allow you to chuck out the airlock, Visas is insufferably emo, Mira is a cliche with a Karen haircut, the wookie that wants to kill her won't stop going on and on about how much he wants to kill everything, and G0-T0 is a pest.

At least KotOR lets you kill some of the annoying ones like Juhani and Mission.

 

[Camel]

Haven't played KOTOR for years but did both a good and evil playthrough back in the day.

Unlike a lot of the games of this era where evil = ask for more money when doing quests, this game could actually make you feel evil with some of the choices (like getting one of your companions to kill another companion who happened to be their best friend because of a debt of honour they owed you). Also it had HK-47, a truly gloriously homicidal companion.

It had awful minigames though and is clearly a console port.

KotOR mostly let you roleplay as a thug during an evil playthrough. I remember you can make both SW Romeo and Juliet families kill each other.

It also established the patented "Bio-twist" and hubworld structure that lasted for several more games going forwards. I think if you can overlook these and the age of the game it's probably worth a playthrough.

BioWare actually started hub structure since at least NWN. Also look at the BioWare cliche chart made by Ian Miles Cheong LMAO.

Spoiler

 

[__scribbles__]

I'd put KOTOR at around the same level as BG and VTM:B. All three are flawed games that have some good elements.

Agreed on that they're flawed games with good elements. However, I think Bloodlines and BG have higher highs than KOTOR, and about the same lows so I rate those two as better overall (but I don't think any are masterpieces).

And all three have pretty bad real-time combat (VTM:B being the worst).

I think Baldur's Gate's combat is better than KOTORs. Baldur's Gate has better encounter design. And I don't think you can really compare Bloodlines because it's an entirely different format.

 

[Hellraiser]

I think Baldur's Gate's combat is better than KOTORs.

If anything BG and infinity engine games in general at least allow you to (kind of, because pathfinding) reliably position your party in combat due to not having a shitty "ground-level only orbiting" third person camera and shitty controller-focused party controls. And I doubt if mechanically the combat is better in KOTOR when BG benefited from being able to pull anything AD&D already had regarding spells, status effects or enemies vs Bioware needing to invent force powers, feats and enemies for KOTOR.

 

[Ravielsk]

I will argue that no the first KOTOR is not worth playing specifically because its just a classic Star Wars adventure. While it captures that Star Wars feel very well it also spread that out across a roughly 30-50 hour(depending on how familiar you are with the base game concepts) game and for me that is way too much of a time investment for just another star wars adventure. Its not terrible but also never great in any regard, just fine with a couple of high points. In 2003 I can absolutely see how it would be seen as one of the essential Bioware experiences but today... that is a hard sell without nostalgia googles.

I personally regret playing it. Its one of the few games that did nothing for me and I simply do not see any reason to play it over KOTOR II which for all its flaws and bugs(most of which fan mods removed completely but for the sake of fairness lets acknowledge them) is a genuinely unique experience both as a RPG and a Star Wars game.

If the average human lifespan was 200 years I would heartily recommend it as a neat but unexceptional experience as it however stands I think there are much better games to sink your time into.

 

[Maxie]

Name your favorite class combos:
Kotor - Scout 5 /Guardian 15. Free implant feats and the BAB of a Guardian will let you potentially steamroll Malak with a high Str score.

Kotor 2 - Consular 15 /Jedi Weaponmaster (or Marauder if Dark Side). Additional force powers AND strong melee combat capability provided by the Weaponmaster/Marauder feats and Light Side/Dark Side Maximum Alignment. Crazy powerful, with the ability to both buff and debuff AND destroy enemies in melee...

blaster jedi in kotor2 is an actually viable build and doesn't need artificial level starvation like in kotor1
blaster jedi people

 

[NecroLord]

Name your favorite class combos:
Kotor - Scout 5 /Guardian 15. Free implant feats and the BAB of a Guardian will let you potentially steamroll Malak with a high Str score.

Kotor 2 - Consular 15 /Jedi Weaponmaster (or Marauder if Dark Side). Additional force powers AND strong melee combat capability provided by the Weaponmaster/Marauder feats and Light Side/Dark Side Maximum Alignment. Crazy powerful, with the ability to both buff and debuff AND destroy enemies in melee...

blaster jedi in kotor2 is an actually viable build and doesn't need artificial level starvation like in kotor1
blaster jedi people

In Kotor 2 you get also way more blasters and the ability to upgrade them more extensively, not to mention feats that improve blaster damage.

 

[std::namespace]

walking sims

first post best post!
kotor1 is absolute gutter trash

 

[Kem0sabe]

Absolutely it was worth playing. Game brought western RPGs to the masses, released on Xbox, star wars, big production values, dark / light side paths that allowed big replayability, the unexpected twist.

Probably one the top 5 most influential western rpg of the last two decades.

 

[Lord_Potato]

KOTOR 2 is much better at that, but they managed to destroy the game-design even more, I literally couldn't progress in the game unless I had a fucking guide on the other screen, and this isn't me being retarded, I just don't see the point of having to search for 40 minutes for a solution that should take only 5 at most.

Honestly, it does sound like you're being retarded.

 

[Gahbreeil]

I wonder whether Bethesda will bounce off of Starfield and make an excellent Star Wars game one day. They are making an Indiana Jones game after all.

I just hope Fallout 4 wasn't their last good game.

 

[The_Mask]

The best part of Kotor 1 was the Manaan swoop track, obviously.

Just like the best part of Kotor 2 was Peragus.

 

[almondblight]

Agreed on that they're flawed games with good elements. However, I think Bloodlines and BG have higher highs than KOTOR, and about the same lows so I rate those two as better overall (but I don't think any are masterpieces).

What ways did you find Bloodlines better than KOTOR? Combat and character building are bad in both games, but worse in Bloodlines. Both suffer from the cramped locations of modern RPG's, but Bloodlines is even more cramped than KOTOR. Bloodlines is basically on rails, where there are many locations you can't even return to after you complete the mission there, and much more gating (you have access to one hub, then the next, then the next, etc.).

The KOTOR isn't particularly interesting, but it works with how the game plays out - you're trying to take out Malak, either because you want to replace him as a dark lord, or because you're a Jedi now and want to defeat the Sith. Bloodlines has a incongurence between the story and the game. It presents the setting as a political struggle between different vampire factions. The Anarchs are trying to get you to join them, Strauss talks to you about supporting the Camarilla over the prince, you can get friendly with the Kuai-Jin, etc. But then the player is forced to work for the Prince and do everything they say right up until the very last mission. When I got the sarcophagus, I tried giving it to Strauss or the Anarchs - no dice. I have to give it the Prince, only to turn around and fight through the building to take it back from the Prince. Except the player doesn't even do that, because after fighting to stop the Prince from getting the sarcophagus, he...gives the Prince the key to the sarcophagus and then walks away...?

There were a few interesting missions in Santa Monica. But after that, the missions are pretty mediocre.

The only thing I think was really good about Bloodlines was the atmosphere. It's a very style over substance game. The Codex likes to complain about walking simulators, then gush over the haunted hotel in Bloodlines, which is a long extended walking simulator sequence with zero gameplay (and that the game forces you to go through each time you play).

KOTOR has plenty of flaws, many of which are similar to Bloodlines. But at the end of the day, I feel like Bloodlines has many more flaws.

 

[NecroLord]

Just like the best part of Kotor 2 was Peragus.

 

[HeatEXTEND]

The only thing I think was really good about Bloodlines was the atmosphere. It's a very style over substance game.

Which it gets away with, you don't see that every day.

The Codex likes to complain about walking simulators, then gush over the haunted hotel in Bloodlines, which is a long extended walking simulator sequence with zero gameplay (and that the game forces you to go through each time you play).

This should tell you how well it was done; it also drives home the supernaturality of the setting besides just Vampires right at the start nicely.

KOTOR is drenched in nice Star Wars sauce, this gets it a lot of free points (from me and obviously from others).
VtMB has vampires, which I don't hate but it's also not a draw at all.
After all is said and done KOTOR has every reason to be accepted as a decent SW RPG, VtMB has to claw itself out of its jank pit, which it manages to do.
That's advantage VtMB as far as I'm concerned.

 

[The Dutch Ghost]

Was KOTOR even worth a play?

I would say it is mediocre at best. I wouldn't recommend playing it. KotOR 2 is more tolerable (better story, more companions who are interesting).

Agreed. It helps set up the setting and I do like some of the things introduced in ut like the Infinite Empire lore though it may be have been rather Star Wars nitpicky nerdish to explaining the 'mythical hyperspace aliens'. I also liked the art style for the ships, locations, equipment, droids, etc, and I thought the Star Forge was a near superweapon different from the usual planet destroying guns. But content wise it is so generic and standard Star Wars, even going for some cliches like how Tantooine despite that it is suppose to be this backwards barely known world once again plays a role in the storyline (it is ridiculous how often this planet is visited in stories). The companions of KOTOR1 with the exception of HK-47 were pretty forgettable, I can't recall the guy who would become Mandalore being that interesting.
KOTOR2 did a lot of the content better, focusing on a more personal journey that occasionally intersected with crises throughout the galaxy. Other than unemployed soldiers, mercenaries, bounty hunters and pirates causing trouble there was no major crisis going on other than that the Republic was failing because of its own own incompetence and corruption and not because of some war. The Sith were moving in the shadows rather than in the open, manipulating planetary governments by assisting anti government factions, and only near the end did did they show up to attack a world, really coming as a surprise to the Republic. The final mission is even a personal one as I don't think Kreia was working on any masterplan to destroy the Republic, her conflict was with the Jedi.

TOR going back to the usual standards was such a disappointment but its not like we would have had a follow up similar to KOTOR2. The KOTOR1 writer even tried hard his best to have that story completely ignored while he bluntly copied ideas from it.

 

[Storyfag]

Was KOTOR even worth a play?​

Yes, it was. And a few replays, despite its many flaws.

 

[Camel]

In Kotor 2 you get also way more blasters and the ability to upgrade them more extensively, not to mention feats that improve blaster damage.

More blasters and more slots for upgrades. KotOR 2 crafting is one of the best in the genre - not time-consuming and actually useful for a player while not being game-breaking like i.e. alchemy in Morrowind.
Obsidian also buffed ranged characters.