Wasteland Wasteland 2 Pre-Release Discussion Thread [GAME RELEASED, GO TO NEW THREAD]

[Grunker]

Boys! We have a detective!

and yes that means a game publisher will get money when part of the pitch was 'fuck game publishers'. it doesn't matter what they do, it's what they are.

snip

Location:Copenhagen

The latest from Logic Artists (@LogicArtists). Small independent game development outfit operating out of Copenhagen, Denmark. Copenhagen.

Figure that out all by yourself, did you?

http://www.rpgcodex.net/content.php?id=8808

As one of the first Kickstarted RPGs to actually be released it is of obvious interest to the Codex, and since their studio is located a manageable 20 minutes on foot from my apartment, I decided to pay Logic Artists, the developers of Conquistador, a visit.

 

[SwiftCrack]

Never ever has the phrase 'Russian Shovelware' been used more appropriately .


Still looking forward to the inevitable incline though .

 

[boltrek]

Boys! We have a detective!

and yes that means a game publisher will get money when part of the pitch was 'fuck game publishers'. it doesn't matter what they do, it's what they are.

snip

Location:Copenhagen

The latest from Logic Artists (@LogicArtists). Small independent game development outfit operating out of Copenhagen, Denmark. Copenhagen.

Figure that out all by yourself, did you?

http://www.rpgcodex.net/content.php?id=8808

As one of the first Kickstarted RPGs to actually be released it is of obvious interest to the Codex, and since their studio is located a manageable 20 minutes on foot from my apartment, I decided to pay Logic Artists, the developers of Conquistador, a visit.

Oh so you are defending your countrymen?

 

[Zed]

I assume it's still not final, and leaving aside the over all look, check this shit out:

a small improvement

 

[Sensuki]

Never ever has the phrase 'Russian Shovelware' been used more appropriately .


Still looking forward to the inevitable incline though .

Indeed, I burst out laughing too.

 

[Ulminati]

and yes that means a game publisher will get money when part of the pitch was 'fuck game publishers'. it doesn't matter what they do, it's what they are.

snip

Location:Copenhagen

The latest from Logic Artists (@LogicArtists). Small independent game development outfit operating out of Copenhagen, Denmark. Copenhagen.

By your logic, Zed should be championing Minecraft while Vaarna_Aarne sould be informing us all how Angry Birds is the best thing since sliced bread.

 

[Grunker]

Oh so you are defending your countrymen?

Yes. I frequently make a point of defending guys whose project I didn't even pledge to because I didn't believe in the product.

 

[FeelTheRads]

I sincerely agree here. They need to improve this asap.

I wouldn't say ASAP, and BN already confirmed it's not final.

All else failing, they can still hire hiver.

Never ever has the phrase 'Russian Shovelware' been used more appropriately

Don't want to take credit for that. I think it was Gozma who first came up with it.

 

[MicoSelva]

Just be glad inXile didn't sign a distribution deal with EA, AKA the legal owners of the Wasteland IP.

Except it was bought back from them by Brian Fargo after he left Interplay, IIRC.

 

[Infinitron]

Just be glad inXile didn't sign a distribution deal with EA, AKA the legal owners of the Wasteland IP.

Except it was bought back from them by Brian Fargo after he left Interplay, IIRC.

Nope. Brian Fargo bought back the Wasteland trademark (permission to make a game called "Wasteland"), but his ability to create a game set in the world of the first game, with the same names, characters and references, is entirely due to the unexpected generosity of an unnamed EA executive.

 

[Sensuki]

Fargo owns the Trademark, EA the IP.

 

[Vault Dweller]

Believe in Kickstarter or no, this belief that developers are lying to their consumers by hiring people to do shit for them (which is was Vault Dweller complained about with Logic Artists) is just false. Logic Artists never lied and neither did inXile.

No, this is not what I complained about.

http://www.rpgcodex.net/forums/inde...sts-and-kickstarter.80854/page-9#post-2527172

Correction: The entire idea of KS is getting money directly from consumers instead of publishers. Now publishers serve two roles: they pay for development and they distribute games (which includes digital distribution, established media contacts, marketing, and such). KS helps you bypass the former but not the latter.

http://www.rpgcodex.net/forums/inde...ts-and-kickstarter.80854/page-13#post-2586426

If the game wasn't ready and simply needed more time, nobody would have said a word. The issue here is that the game was ready but held back, despite the commitment to the backers, because of a last-minute deal with a publisher.

 

[evdk]

All else failing, they can still hire hiver.

It looks like they already have.

 

[Grunker]

Just be glad inXile didn't sign a distribution deal with EA, AKA the legal owners of the Wasteland IP.

Except it was bought back from them by Brian Fargo after he left Interplay, IIRC.

Nope. Brian Fargo bought back the Wasteland trademark (permission to make a game called "Wasteland"), but his ability to create a game set in the world of the first game, with the same names, characters and references, is entirely due to the unexpected generosity of an unnamed EA executive.

I suspect they value the ability to say "look, we're such a friendly company!" higher than what little could be gained, if anything, from wrestling on this point.

The issue here is that the game was ready but held back, despite the commitment to the backers, because of a last-minute deal with a publisher.

Those two months of waiting really hurt everyone. Principles for the sake of principles is stupidity indeed.

 

[Vault Dweller]

The issue here is that the game was ready but held back, despite the commitment to the backers, because of a last-minute deal with a publisher.

Those two months of waiting really hurt everyone. Principles for the sake of principles is stupidity indeed.

It was a bad way to handle things and you damn well know it.

 

[boltrek]

Fargo owns the Trademark, EA the IP.

I doubt holding the intellectual property to a setting like WL is easy, how can you own rights on things like Arizona, California, Vegas, Desert Rangers, etc. Might be different if it was a pure fiction world.

 

[Grunker]

The issue here is that the game was ready but held back, despite the commitment to the backers, because of a last-minute deal with a publisher.

Those two months of waiting really hurt everyone. Principles for the sake of principles is stupidity indeed.

It was a bad way to handle things and you damn well know it.

I have never denied that their communication sucked ass as you well remember (in fact I believe I was one of the first to criticize this). I have only ever refused to ackknowledge that there were any other problems than communication.

 

[himmy]

Fargo owns the Trademark, EA the IP.

I doubt holding the intellectual property to a setting like WL is easy, how can you own rights on things like Arizona, California, Vegas, Desert Rangers, etc.

You would be surprised. Remember the Disney "Dia de los muertos" scandal a few months back?

 

[Grunker]

I will say one thing though: You reap as you sow. While I believe anyone claiming the deal with Deep Silver is breach of anything said during the Kickstarter to be utterly wrong, Fargo is to blame himself for the fact that people jump the gun on this one. If you preach that all publishers are evil, people rightly raise their brow when you start making distribution deals. With more foresight, Fargo would have written some kind of distribution-disclaimer back then that he could re-quote now to prove to everyone that he hasn't flip-flopped on anything.

Alas, hindsight is an easily accessible priviledge.

 

[LeStryfe79]

I've got zero problems with the Deep Silver deal, it's the smoke and mirrors I can't stand. Anyone pretending Fargo didn't purposely deceive us is a fanboy or a troll. He's on notice as far as I'm concerned.

 

[MicoSelva]

Brian Fargo bought back the Wasteland trademark (permission to make a game called "Wasteland"), but his ability to create a game set in the world of the first game, with the same names, characters and references, is entirely due to the unexpected generosity of an unnamed EA executive.

Source?

Wikipedia is a bit vague saying 'Brian Fargo, acquired the rights to Wasteland from Konami'. I don't have access to the IGN archive to check their source.

 

[Zed]

Dude, you are way off on this one.

Publisher: Is often the investor. Which means they pay for the product. You must obey them since they're the Guys With The Money. Without them, you have no game, no office space, no salaries.

Distributor: inXile pays them to handle stuff they cannot handle themselves.

It was like this when Logic Artists signed, and it is like this now. You shouldn't have anything against publishers, you should have something against them being the industry kings and the ones with final creative control. That's what Fargo has been campaigning against.

Brian Fargo said "fuck meddling publishers" not "we must do everything ourselves! We also bought the office space because fuck landlords!"

Believe in Kickstarter or no, this belief that developers are lying to their consumers by hiring people to do shit for them (which is was Vault Dweller complained about with Logic Artists) is just false. Logic Artists never lied and neither did inXile. If you believe otherwise you can point me to the part of their pitch where they said "we will print the CDs ourselves and only sell the game from our own website, even though that is insane from an economic perspective and would just take resources out of the game."

I don't know and I don't care about Logic Arts and whatever they did. I didn't back them.

Deep Silver acts just like a publisher in this, with the exception of digital sales. Everything else is business as usual. They will handle QA (with one of the shittiest QA teams in the industry I might add) and will take profits on a per-sale basis. A pure "physical distributor" would print, handle and ship for a batch price. Also, Deep Silver acts as a 'traditional publisher' affecting other games, which this venture will support with its business.

You think physical sales are important for an indie developer? You think this will make them better business? You think this is inevitable? LOL
http://www.extremetech.com/gaming/97047-thank-you-farmville-pc-gaming-will-soon-overtake-consoles
In 2011, digital sales made up 80% of PC games sales. Now take in consideration that this change happened in a drastic curve upwards, and it's now 2013. What could it be at today? 85? 90? More?
Also, add to that the product difference in that this is a niche title - not exactly getting an exclusive shelf spot in GameStop.

 

[Grunker]

Anyone pretending Fargo didn't purposely deceive us is a fanboy or a troll.

Anyone pretending Fargo purposely deceived us is a shitposter or a troll.

With pretentious insults out of the way, do you think there's room for some kind of discussion now, or..?

 

[Grunker]

Deep Silver acts just like a publisher in this, with the exception of digital sales.

How? They are not paying for the game. InXile depend on them for nothing.

Deep Silver is filling the role that a publisher should: all the distribution and marketing, none of the creative control or powers over the developer.

If you have evidence that inXile depends on Deep Silver funding to make Wasteland 2, then we can talk. Then I'll be right there with you, raging like a motherfucker. As it stands, you are making completely unsupported claims.

You think physical sales are important for an indie developer? You think this will make them better business? You think this is inevitable? LOL

Let me ask you this: What about this is different from their deal with Steam (who gets the exact same thing as Deep Silver: a cut of the profits). Why didn't you rage like this when you found out Steam would digitally distribute Wasteland 2?

 

[Brother None]

I will say one thing though: You reap as you sow. While I believe anyone claiming the deal with Deep Silver is breach of anything said during the Kickstarter to be utterly wrong, Fargo is to blame himself for the fact that people jump the gun on this one. If you preach that all publishers are evil, people rightly raise their brow when you start making distribution deals. With more foresight, Fargo would have written some kind of distribution-disclaimer back then that he could re-quote now to prove to everyone that he hasn't flip-flopped on anything.

Ok
http://www.eurogamer.de/articles/2012-09-27-brian-fargo-von-wasteland-zu-wasteland-2?page=2
Eurogamer: The funding of Wasteland 2 proved to be a great success. What does this mean for your and inXile's future regarding the possibility of working with a big publisher again?

Brian Fargo: I have been pretty vocal in my goal of building a standalone company that produces RPG's again. I love every part of this process and I hope I am able to continue doing this for many years. Most every developer wants the creative and financial control of a company like Valve. However there will be times in which we may do business with a publisher but that is different than being financed and produced by a publisher. For example we may want to support XBOX someday in which case we have no choice but to use a publihser's distribution to gain access.

PS: Xbox is a p extreme example but you do need a publisher to get on XBLA, inXile has had to do that before for Choplifter HD, so it's an example Brian has experience with.