Wasteland Wasteland 2 Pre-Release Discussion Thread [GAME RELEASED, GO TO NEW THREAD]

[Infinitron]

Am I the only one who thinks the lastest prison video is actually a step back in ALMOST every way from the previous agricultural video?

A little disappointing...

No I said that as well. Also disappointed.

The February gameplay demo used a number of tricks to make it seem more impressive than it actually was.

It was zoomed in closer, which made the level seem larger and more open-ended than it actually was. That also made the graphical effects (gunfire streaks, etc) look more impressive simply because you saw them up closer.

It used a darker color scheme than the recent demo, which helped hide the game's graphical weaknesses and again, made the level look larger. The aforementioned graphical effects also showed up better against a darker background.

It was better paced, showing the Rangers fighting various trash mobs and ducking in and out of buildings while using various "classical" skills like lockpicking and bashing. There was a major area transition between the outside of the Ag Center and the inside of the Ag Center, which again made the game seem larger and more diverse. It was followed by an interesting dialogue/exposition scene that received ample viewing time. In contrast, the dialogues in the recent demo were haphazard, rushed and awkwardly paced.

Finally, the February demo used fake sound effects (it was an overdub) that were louder and more impressive than the ones used by the actual game in the recent demo.

Of course, in terms of actual content - combat, C&C, etc - the recent demo is much more interesting, but graphicswhoredex gonna graphicswhoredex.

 

[Chaotic_Heretic]

Infinitron
Agree with grafixwhoring part.
HEXES. Where are my hexes

 

[FeelTheRads]

Where do you get all that "it used fake stuff"?

 

[Infinitron]

Where do you get all that "it used fake stuff"?

http://www.rpgcodex.net/article.php?id=8771

The only element that is not running in code is the sound effects, as it was faster to do in post, but as you will hear, there is nothing being done audio wise that isn't easily replicated in engine.

 

[Sensuki]

Of course, in terms of actual content - combat, C&C, etc - the recent demo is much more interesting, but graphicswhoredex gonna graphicswhoredex.

Not really, even though they added post-production in the sound original as far as "game feel" goes there has been almost zero progress made, regressions in many areas (UI style, conversation UI, moving from hex to square grid).

Camera controls and camera scrolling still looks terrible, characters still slide across the ground etc

Many people ride totally on content and that's fine, but yeh examples so far haven't been amazing and if the actual game feel is terrible, then that really hampers the experience for me. It doesn't look that great, never expected it to, but we'll see how it goes later on.

Basically that video had the opposite effect to the first one for me. First one gave me hope, this one shrunk it.

 

[Gord]

moving from hex to square grid

I honestly wonder how different the game will actually play between hexes and a square grid. My assumption: not much.

The graphics and look&feel are good, but nothing spectacular.
Not that I necessarily expected it or think it will be very important for the game in the end.

Wouldn't have minded slightly more "modern" graphics, though: Might have to do with the assets, I'm honestly not completely sure myself what causes it, but the game looks a little bit dated to me.

 

[Infinitron]

Basically that video had the opposite effect to the first one for me. First one gave me hope, this one shrunk it.

The conversation UI is still a work in progress and diagonal movement will be added to the square grid.

Other than that, well, an extreme analogy would be an expertly made and well paced NWN2 OC machinima looking more attractive than an amateurish MotB LP. Yeah, no shit it does, but that doesn't tell you much about the underlying games.

Wouldn't have minded slightly more "modern" graphics, though: Might have to do with the assets, I'm honestly not completely sure myself what causes it, but the game looks a little bit dated to me.

It's the color scheme. The rangers just don't look very good against that bright, plastic looking desert. That's why the Ag Center demo looked better, it was darker.

 

[Ninjerk]

Someone explain the hex fascination for me.

 

[Sordid MCA/Prosper Hybryd]

Yep. I can't understand it too.
E.g. there is no hex grid in JA2. And still it's the king of turn-based combat.

 

[Chaotic_Heretic]

JA2 lacks grids and has free movement right?
That offers the most degree of freedom(disregarding altitude).

Hexes >squares since 6 directions instead of 4, also it feels much more natural to target/move diagonally in hexes.

 

[Dickie]

Hexes >squares since 6 directions instead of 4

See? It's 50% better because it has 50% more sides.

 

[tuluse]

No, JA2 uses squares.

 

[Jim the Dinosaur]

and diagonal movement

 

[Chaotic_Heretic]

Hexes >squares since 6 directions instead of 4

See? It's 50% better because it has 50% more sides.

Well 50% more money to spend is always a good thing right? Unless you are a crackhead.
Also AOE abilities feel more intuitive in hex grid. Square it is kinda fucked up.

 

[felipepepe]

Someone explain the hex fascination for me.

The current W2 demo doesn't include diagonal movement, so you see retarded stuff like the armored raider running a huge line to the right, then running another huge line down to reach a guy that was on the lower right corner. Had the game used a hex grid, he would have spent way less AP and would probably still be able to do an attack. That's a HUGE difference.

On games with melee combat, that's even more relevant. Going melee on a horde of insects or rats on a hex grid means that 6 of them can surround you, while on square only 4 of them will attack you at a time.

 

[Ninjerk]

Someone explain the hex fascination for me.

The current W2 demo doesn't include diagonal movement, so you see retarded stuff like the armored raider running a huge line to the right, then running another huge line down to reach a guy that was on the lower right corner. Had the game used a hex grid, he would have spent way less AP and would probably still be able to do an attack. That's a HUGE difference.

On games with melee combat, that's even more relevant. Going melee on a horde of insects or rats on a hex grid means that 6 of them can surround you, while on square only 4 of them will attack you at a time.

 

[Gord]

The current W2 demo doesn't include diagonal movement, so you see retarded stuff like the armored raider running a huge line to the right, then running another huge line down to reach a guy that was on the lower right corner. Had the game used a hex grid, he would have spent way less AP and would probably still be able to do an attack. That's a HUGE difference.

On games with melee combat, that's even more relevant. Going melee on a horde of insects or rats on a hex grid means that 6 of them can surround you, while on square only 4 of them will attack you at a time.

It becomes irrelevant once they introduce diagonal movement, though (which they will afaik).
Also put in diagonal attacks (with or without range modifiers) and your other point becomes moot, too.
Ultimately the implementation seems more important to me than the underlying geometry.

 

[Chaotic_Heretic]

Someone explain the hex fascination for me.

The current W2 demo doesn't include diagonal movement, so you see retarded stuff like the armored raider running a huge line to the right, then running another huge line down to reach a guy that was on the lower right corner. Had the game used a hex grid, he would have spent way less AP and would probably still be able to do an attack. That's a HUGE difference.

On games with melee combat, that's even more relevant. Going melee on a horde of insects or rats on a hex grid means that 6 of them can surround you, while on square only 4 of them will attack you at a time.

An answer to the superiority of hexes over squares.

Also, hexes look preetier

 

[felipepepe]

It becomes irrelevant once they introduce diagonal movement, though (which they will afaik).
Also put in diagonal attacks (with or without range modifiers) and your other point becomes moot, too.
Ultimately the implementation seems more important to me than the underlying geometry.

Yeah, considering that the movement on the demo is not "1 square per action point", it should be fairly easy to add a proper diagonal movement, but as you said, the implementation is were it all lies... hex grid has the advantage of being already "done", no need for diagonal movement calculations or different rules for diagonal attacks, that may or may not be fair.

 

[Gord]

Yeah, considering that the movement on the demo is not "1 square per action point", it should be fairly easy to add a proper diagonal movement, but as you said, the implementation is were it all lies...

Well, one can only hope...

 

[imweasel]

q.e.d.

 

[toro]

q.e.d.

You are a retard. How the fuck do you get to the corner's squares in 2 moves?

 

[imweasel]

You are a retard. How the fuck do you get to the corner's squares in 2 moves?

Diagonal movement.

 

[FeelTheRads]

One move in diagonal, one straight.

 

[toro]

One move in diagonal, one straight.

But you cannot do that. So?

Edit: In the demo there is no diagonal move.

Edit 2: And if you could move diagonally, you would reach 24 squares.

imweasel is still a retard. q.e.d